Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Suspect Killed in Boston; FIFA President Resigns; Race for 2016; FBI Spy Planes; Capsized Cruise Ship. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired June 02, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

[13:59:57] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, here we go. You're watching CNN. We've got some breaking news on this Tuesday afternoon. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Got to go to Boston for this. We have learned now, moments ago, the name of the terror suspect who was shot and killed at this crime scene here still all, obviously, taped off this afternoon by police and the FBI. His brother has identified him as Usaama Rahim (ph). We're waiting on a news conference from Boston Police. Obviously, we'll take that live when that happens.

In the meantime, his brother is giving a vastly different version of how Rahim died compared to what authorities are saying. Boston Police say a man, under surveillance by the Joint Terrorism Task Force, pulled a knife on officers when they were approaching him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COMMISSIONER WILLIAM "BILL" EVANS, BOSTON POLICE: And the officers asked again, gave several commands for him to drop the weapon, and, unfortunately, he came at the officers and, you know, they did what they were trained to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: That's the authority's side. This is the family's side here. This is a tweet from Rahim's brother, quote, "pray for my younger brother, Usaama Rahim, shot three times in his back by Boston Police, then dying. His last words, I can't breathe."

With me now, former FBI special agent and police officer Jonathan Gilliam, and our national correspondent, Deborah Feyerick, who's been following this all day.

So, Deb, let me just begin with you. Tell me what you can share. What we know.

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, what we can share right now is that the man's name is Usaama Rahim. He's in his mid-20s. His brother, as you say, is giving a very, very different account of what happened. He said his brother was waiting at a bus stop on his way to his job when, in his words, he was confronted by three Boston Police officers and subsequently shot three times in the back. Nowhere does the brother say that he had a knife, what authority describe as a fairly large military-style knife, and nowhere does he say that he was the aggressor in this confrontation. But what the imam, the brother says, is that he actually called his father and was on the phone with him, in his words, needing a witness.

Now, we've been speaking to authorities all day. What we do know is that he was under surveillance by the Joint Terrorism Task Force, by investigators there. Unclear as to whether this was part of a long- term investigation or whether this is something that just hit their radar. But investigators did feel a need to engage him this morning, 7:00, at a CVS parking lot. And when they told him to put down this large knife, he apparently not only resisted, but it appears that he made a move towards them, and that's when they opened fire. He died in the hospital and that's what they're looking at right now just to determine the circumstances and whether this was part of a larger conspiracy -

BALDWIN: Right.

FEYERICK: Or whether they're simply out now investigating friends of his -

BALDWIN: Right.

FEYERICK: Who may have been involved and who he may have been talking to online. So it's a fine distinction but it's a big extinction.

BALDWIN: It is a big distinction. I'm glad you answered that because that would have been one of my questions to you.

FEYERICK: Yes.

BALDWIN: When you then hear the fact that you have authorities already sort of en route to find him this morning and he has apparently this knife, according to the FBI, what does that tell you? Because it's one thing to be under surveillance for x period of time.

JONATHAN GILLIAM, FORMER FBI SPECIAL AGENT & POLICE OFFICER: Sure.

BALDWIN: It's quite another to have these folks already on scene.

GILLIAM: Well, the FBI, the Joint Terrorism Task Force, they typically - we need to separate them from law enforcement officers who go out and patrol the streets and react to crime that they see out there. These types of investigations are long term. Unless it's an imminent threat, in which case they would approach the person, but they also approach people if they're trying to turn them to sources or find out information from them.

BALDWIN: So there may not have been an imminent threat, per se. It could have been a multitude of options?

GILLIAM: Sure. Right. Three people approaching him, though, to talk to him, that is, you know, not untypical. So when they approach him, if - and it sounds to me from that statement that he was on the phone with his father saying, I need a witness. So this wasn't something that just instantly happened.

So while they're there talking to this individual, his nervousness or his tensions may have risen. And if he pulls a knife out - and this is what people need to understand, it's not against the law for a cop to shoot somebody in the back. If they pull a knife out and the cop's standing behind them, you know he can - that's deadly force. He can move to eliminate that threat, no matter what position he's in. So if he was shot in the back, if the guy pulled out a knife and was getting ready to lunge at somebody in front of him and the officer shoot him from the back, there's no problem with that shoot whatsoever.

FEYERICK: And all of this right now is in an active - is an active investigation. You can see all the law enforcement there. They pulled the tapes from the CVS, from the Burger King, from other locations there. Clearly they're going to be pulling his phone records, as well. And so the imam, the brother, essentially, wouldn't go into any more detail except to say that his brother had been shot. So that account is also going to be verified. Usually when you have two stories, the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

BALDWIN: Somewhere in between.

Here's my follow-up to you then. So if you're saying he was saying - or the brother was saying he wanted an eyewitness, was he already on the phone with the father when a Joint Terrorism Task Force approached or did that happen in the thick of it all?

FEYERICK: And that's what's very - it's a great question. We didn't know -

BALDWIN: We don't know.

[14:04:58] FEYERICK: Whether he was talking to his dad. But he did say the statement was that he was on the cell phone with my dear father during the confrontation needing a witness. So whatever was going on, this man, Usaama Rahim, believed that, according to the brother, that he needed somebody to at least be understanding what exactly was going on at that moment. But authorities have been very clear to say, this person was part of something that needed to be investigated, needed to be questioned and so that's where we're at right now.

BALDWIN: Listening to all of this and sort of connecting the dots, because there's still a lot that remains very nebulous, what would be your, you know, top question, number one and number two, out of all of it?

GILLIAM: Well, I don't really have any questions for how this unfolded. I mean we're not looking at -

BALDWIN: No, not how it unfolded. But I guess when you're hearing this could be a broader group, you know?

GILLIAM: Sure. Well, that is the thing that concerns me most.

BALDWIN: In Boston. GILLIAM: Whenever something like this happens and it kind of blows up, if this person was a part of something bigger, now those other individuals are alerted to the fact that this investigation was going on and they may react, they may leave or they may act, if there was an imminent threat. That's the part that really does kind of alarm me that this actually happened.

But, you know, when you're approaching somebody, you never know how things are going to turn out. So that's one thing that I think people need to be hyper vigilant for is that if there were other cells involved or other people involved -

BALDWIN: Right.

GILLIAM: Are they alerted now?

BALDWIN: Right.

GILLIAM: Are they going to react?

FEYERICK: Right. And are they in the wind?

GILLIAM: Sure.

FEYERICK: Have they basically gone on the run?

GILLIAM: Sure.

FEYERICK: What we do know is that apparently this man, according to authorities, was making threats against police officers. So you want to know, based on your question, is this part of a larger conspiracy?

BALDWIN: Right.

FEYERICK: Does this go to a level of the Boston Marathon bombing, which obviously we just lived through, or is this something where he was radicalized online, was talking to people of similar ideology, and that they were sort of getting together? So are we looking for actual co-conspirators or are we looking for like-minded individuals? And that's what authorities are trying to unravel now and figure out exactly where they go.

BALDWIN: You have great sources. You will help us connect the dot. Deborah Feyerick, thank you very much. And, Jonathan Gilliam, as always, great to have you on.

GILLIAM: You got it.

BALDWIN: Appreciate both of you. Stay tuned. Again, we're going to be hearing from Boston Police at some point live during this show. We'll bring it to you when that happens.

Also, news just in here to CNN. Amid this corruption scandal, FIFA President Sepp Blatter is stepping down as head of the world's most popular sport. This comes just days after the chief of world soccer's governing body was narrowly re-elected to his position. CNN Sports' Alex Thomas joins me live from London with more on this.

And so, Alex, he was just re-elected Friday. I mean is this just like a massive shock that he's now saying he's out?

ALEX THOMAS, CNN SPORTS: This is the most historic day in the history of the planet's most popular sport, Brooke. There's no other way to put it. Absolutely sensational.

This is a watershed moment in the same way the Salt Lake City scandal was for the Olympic movement at the turn of the century, and in the same way the Lance Armstrong doping confession was for the world of cycling. This turns the game on its head.

This is a man who's celebrating his 40th year at the - he's 79 years old. He spent most of his life at the governing body for world soccer. He's been president since 1998. He's the third longest serving leader in the organization's history. And yet his fifth term, which started on Friday, is arguably going to be the shortest of any of the 10 people in the history of FIFA to hold that office of president.

He says he'll quit. Not immediately. He's going to stay in charge in the interim until an extraordinary FIFA congress meeting. That's all 209 national association from world soccer will come back to meet again between December at the end of this year and March of next year to elect a new president.

Brooke.

BALDWIN: Is this in direct response to the investigation into FIFA corruption, pure and simple?

THOMAS: He didn't - he didn't say that, but, yes, it has been a huge build-up of pressure ever since Friday. As I said, it's a watershed moment. There's no doubt the world of soccer changed last Wednesday morning when investigators raided the luxury FIFA hotel in Zurich and unceremoniously woke up certain officials to dag them off to interview them, detain them and get them ready for extradition. That process is still ongoing. There's a separate investigation happening in Switzerland, looking at the controversial bidding process for the 2018 and 2022 World Cups. The first went to Russia, the seconds to Qatar. Both are controversial. And surely both those hosts will now be nervous. They have been Blatter supporters. The USA could yet come into play as a potential World Cup host.

BALDWIN: You - right, which would be huge, right? They were denied it for 2022. Just, final question, how is this all being received overseas? I mean you're underscoring the fact that this is absolutely historic.

THOMAS: Yes, well, Sepp Blatter spoke - last week in his victory speech talking about football touching the lives of more than 1.6 billion people on this planet. Brooke, it's currently the top trending topic on Twitter globally. Everybody's talking about it. Michel Platini, the head of UEFA, Europe's governing body, said that it was a brave decision but it was the right decision. He's been a vocal anti- Blatter voice. And we've also seen Vincent Kompany, a football star, currently saying that Blatter wasn't solely responsible.

[14:10:14] Before (ph) transparency and voting reform, more have to follow. So are we going to see more football officials, soccer officials, leave the world game? It's unprecedented times, Brooke. I wouldn't like to predict.

BALDWIN: Alex Thomas, thank you so much, in London, on FIFA.

Breaking now, the race to save survivors trapped inside of this cruise ship. Rescue crews hearing cries for help from people on this trip of a lifetime. We will take you there to China.

Also, the FBI, today, admitting that it flies planes around dozens of American cities for surveillance. Hear how far they got to stay under cover.

And new polls. New CNN poll out today show Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush have got some speed bumps, some problems. Who's on top now and which Republican polls best against Clinton one on one.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:15:09] BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

The count right now is 12. Twelve official declared candidates for president. We're going to get to a point where their faces aren't all going to fit on the screen, I think. While it may be a long road to the White House, a new CNN/ORC poll out today shows there may be a few speed bumps for some of these folks.

On this road with all of us, of course, is CNN's Michael Smerconish. He has his own show, but we're happy to have him with us right now.

Michael Smerconish, let's kick out some of these numbers, first of all, and what really stood out to me, and I know we were just talking about the Republican crowded field, but Hillary Clinton. You know, when - there - when people were asked about her honesty, her un- favorability, whether she cares about people like me, I mean you see some of her numbers and these are - these are, you know, worse numbers than say we saw a couple of months ago. But when you compare her to other potential Democratic contenders, you know, her numbers are still pretty sky high. So I guess my question is, what does that tell you about competition in that party?

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, HOST, CNN'S "SMERCONISH": Well, this is partly, Brooke, what you would expect to see when one makes the move from being courted to run for president to being a candidate for the presidency, so some of the slippage is to be anticipated. But if I were at the Clinton campaign headquarters and I were studying the internals of this, what would most alarm me would be the slippage in the span of three months along independents. A favorability rating that went from 52 percent down to 41 percent.

As you and I have discussed in the past, I'm convinced that for most of America you could run a race with Secretary Clinton in it tomorrow and get the same result that you'll get in November of 2016. Those are hardened R's and hardened D's. But among the I's, the Independent, those very few people who will be up for grabs if she's the nominee, they're the voters who are in play and so slippage among that group, that's problematic for her.

BALDWIN: All right, so you're wondering about the I's. What about, as far as the R's are concerned, Marco Rubio and Rand Paul? I know that in these hypothetical matchups at the top, who, you know, are pretty close there with Hillary Clinton if you were to have a match-up today, Marco Rubio and Rand Paul are up there. And what was interesting, there was another part of the poll which asked, you know, potential Republican voters, who represents the future versus the past and you had Marco Rubio and Rand Paul and also Scott Walker, pretty high there. so that could be one of the reasons. Why else do you think, Michael?

SMERCONISH: Well, I think that Jeb is not yet in the race, right? I mean we talk about Jeb Bush as if he's a formal candidate when, in fact, he's not a formal candidate because he's still spending time fundraising for his super PAC. And speaking of fundraising, that's the real value of this poll. If you're Marco Rubio, if you are Rand Paul, if you are Scott Walker, believe me, you are using this poll today to raise money to go to Republican movers and shakers and to say, I'm the individual who can best run against Hillary Clinton. It's not Jeb Bush. Even the data suggests that he's a name from the past. So it's being used as a tool, I can assure you.

BALDWIN: And that's the thing, unlike his brother and his father and how that happened George W. Bush, you know, run, you know, he's been trying to distance himself from Jeb Bush, he's been trying to distance himself from his own brother and it hasn't worked when you look at some of the numbers here in the polls. But do you think whenever he officially, whenever that may be, officially throws his hat in the ring, do you think his numbers will budge at all? And if so, what direction?

SMERCONISH: I think - well, that's a great question. I think they will budge. I think that there will be a net gain.

BALDWIN: You do?

SMERCONISH: I really think that most of these candidates - I really think that most of these candidates are a blank slate for much of the country. You know, to your hardened CNN viewer who's paying close attention, even though things are early -

BALDWIN: Even a Bush or a Clinton?

SMERCONISH: Bush and Clinton, I think that - I think that Hillary Clinton is someone about whom candidates have fixed views. But not Jeb Bush. I mean when Jeb Bush, in the internal, in this survey, is reflected as a name from the past, they're conflating him with his brother. There's no way that people are saying that Jeb Bush, the Florida governor, is backward looking. I mean by that logic you'd say that Hillary Clinton, who was a part - the first lady, United States Senate, secretary of state under Barack Obama, she's in the past as well, and they don't hold her accountable in the way that they do Jeb as being a -

BALDWIN: So then how do you fight the conflation if you're Jeb Bush?

SMERCONISH: You - well - and this is what he's struggling to do. He's got to distinguish himself from his brother. When they're asked a question about whether Iraq was a mistake, you've got to, you know, be prepared to distinguish the Thanksgiving Day table in Kennebunkport from running for president and you've got to say, yes, it was a mistake. And he'd better be willing to do that.

BALDWIN: Yes. Michael Smerconish, as always, a pleasure, my friend. Thank you so much.

SMERCONISH: OK.

BALDWIN: We'll be watching on Saturday mornings.

SMERCONISH: See you soon.

BALDWIN: We'll see you hopefully here on Friday for our date. Thank you.

[14:20:01] Coming up next, rescue crews are using hammers in this desperate search to find those trapped after this Chinese cruise ship capsizes during this violent storm. We'll talk to an expert about how difficult, how treacherous these search efforts really are out there.

Also, eyes in the sky. What CNN is learning about this fleet of mysterious planes over U.S. cities registered, by the way, to fake companies, and who's flying them and why. We've got answers, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: The secret is out. A fleet of spy planes registered to fake companies operated by the FBI could be flying over your house at any point in time. In fact, the FBI admits these planes were even used to conduct surveillance during the Baltimore protests. Joining me now, Steve Rogers, former member of the FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force.

Steve, you know, in learning about all of this, though, should we really be surprised that the FBI is flying planes like these?

[14:25:05] STEVE ROGERS, FORMER MEMBER, FBI JOINT TERRORISM TASK FORCE: Not at all, Brooke. The FBI is going to take action on what we call actionable intelligence. That means that they already gathered enough information to cause them to go to a certain area of this country to start doing some surveillance.

BALDWIN: What are the planes capable of? Can you be specific?

ROGERS: Yes. Well, I'm sure they're capable of picking up electronic communication from cell phones, from computers. I'm sure there is infrared technology on there to search the ground, to see if there are anyone with weapons, et cetera.

But I believe the primary task here, and this is something, you know, I've mentioned quite often is, that we're at war and we need every tool at our disposal to prevent a terrorist attack. And I believe that's what they're focusing on.

BALDWIN: So you believe that for Baltimore, for example, we know the FBI confirmed to CNN that they did use these planes during the unrest and the demonstrations and the riots. You're saying it wasn't because of the riot or monitoring what was happening on the ground in Baltimore. Your point, to the terrorism point is, it was to monitor terrorists taking advantage at that point in time?

ROGERS: As a primary mission. I've always had the fear, and I'm sure many in the law enforcement community have had this fear, if terrorists see a riot or if they see civil unrest in this country, they may take advantage of that and, bingo, what an opportunity for a bomb to go off. So I'm sure, being proactive, the FBI and other intelligence agencies are out there trying to prevent this from happening. That's not to say it wasn't used to maybe track armed people who were looking to shooting civilians or police officers in Baltimore. But I believe the primary purpose is to prevent a terrorist attack.

BALDWIN: OK. Steve Rogers, thank you so much.

ROGERS: You're welcome.

BALDWIN: I appreciate it.

ROGERS: You're welcome.

BALDWIN: A frantic search to save hundreds of people trapped inside a sinking cruise ship in China. Just heartbreaking cries for help echoing through the hull of this vessel overturned during a tornado. Rescuers used hammers looking for signs of life, hoping for a repeat of this moment.

This elderly woman, one of just 15 people found alive, including the ship's captain and chief engineer, now in police custody. Bodies pulled from the river, five so far. But the focus now is on the hundred still missing. You have 458 passengers, mainly elderly, who, by the way, were on this trip of a lifetime. Families say they're not getting answers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I want to register my complaint. You can't just mysteriously hold us all here and not give us an explanation. They need to publicize the event. They can't hide them, right? It's as simple as that. You should deal with it as one deals with these things because we are all relatives. Our family members are on board. So you can understand our feelings when they just throw us in here. They haven't even tried to make us feel better. And we barely know how they plan to deal with this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Joining me now, Christine Dennison, remote expedition specialist and diving rescue expert.

Thank you so much for coming back on the show, though I hate that we're having to talk about this.

CHRISTINE DENNISON, REMOTE EXPEDITION SPECIALIST: Thank you for having me.

BALDWIN: Just reading about it this morning and the thought of people still alive, trapped in this ship, it has to be an incredible challenge for these - for these rescuers.

DENNISON: Yes, it's a very tragic situation yet again. And what I think, at this point time, they still have a little bit of time on their side. I think what we're dealing with are 50 to 80-year-olds. And, unfortunately -

BALDWIN: Yes, yes, elderly.

DENNISON: As we age, there is a different level of oxygen capacity that, if you're a senior, it's that much more depleted and that's just a reality, a physiology. So the oxygen issue is major to try and reach the elderly.

At this point, I think what they're trying to do is just listen for sounds, listen for any possibility of life that they can get to. I know they have divers in the water. I'm not sure exactly what they're going do. I read that they were looking to raise the ship, which I think might cause some problems. This is a -

BALDWIN: How would they do that?

DENNISON: They're going to pump - or they should be pumping it with air to allow - it will rise somewhat and it will also allow people to possibly, if there are in air pockets, get some more air into that ship, into these compartments. It's a 251-foot cruise ship and it's four levels deep. So it's not a massive area. So, again, air pockets, it really depends on where everybody was at the time that this happened and if they can get out of - if they're in their rooms, if they can get to an area where they have luck on their side. It's -

BALDWIN: Is there a better place within the ship that would increase one's chances of survival based upon a different part or -

DENNISON: I think it really, at this point, it's going to be luck.

BALDWIN: Yes.

DENNISON: It's an unfortunate situation. I think those that are - that may be trapped might have had some air, might have had some time, depending on where they were, in cabins, on what level. And again, I think that they're just looking to be able to hear some sounds of life so that they can try and get divers into these areas.

[14:30:08] BALDWIN: There are pictures, you can see, of the rescuers.