Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Caitlyn Jenner Debuts on "Vanity Fair" Cover; Senate to Take Final Vote on USA Freedom Act; Dustin Lukasiewicz Finally Got A Chance to Say Goodbye. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired June 02, 2015 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00] JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: But you had their family members testifying on the hill today. You're seeing a picture there (INAUDIBLE), his husband in prison for his religion. He was proselytizing for the Christian faith in Iran. You have (INAUDIBLE) there. His brother, a "Washington Post" reporter. He has been imprisoned on what the U.S. sees as really manufactured charges of spying. And then Amir Hecmate (ph), he is a former marine, also an American, a dual national. He's been held in Iranian prison for more than three years now. And what the families are saying, and I'll tell you, Brooke, you could sense their frustration.

First of all, there's sadness to be separated from their loved one. But their frustration with the U.S. government. And they said in frank terms at this hearing, how could we be negotiating with Iran in such friendly environment over this -- these Iran talks and not the nuclear program and not be bringing the fate of these Americans as a direct issue.

And you heard this from lawmakers, as well. You had Eliot Engel, congressman from New York, saying it's infuriating, in his words. He went on to say Iran is spitting in our face during these negotiations to not talk about these American held there. So some very strong feelings expressed this morning. And I met with these families really for months now. And they really have enough to hear. They're running out of patience and they want to see change. They want to see change particularly if there's agreement. They want their relatives freed.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: You can understand it. You can understand it.

SCIUTTO: Absolutely.

BALDWIN: Jim Sciutto, thank you so much for speaking with them and with us. Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Thank you.

BALDWIN: And even with a broken leg and being hours away from surgery, that did not stop U.S. secretary of state John Kerry from being part of a world meeting today on the fight against ISIS. This morning he called in to the meeting in Paris where 24 countries met today to discuss the way forward. They vowed to stay united in the fight. But the fact of the ground remain, ISIS continues to make gains. As you know, they took over recently the city of Ramadi. So what should the U.S. plan be moving forward?

Wolf Blitzer is exploring that, a new "SITUATION ROOM" Special Report tonight.

And so, you, Wolf Blitzer, you talked to some of the best and the brightest, you know, military and strategic minds here for this special. What do they say the U.S. must do here?

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST, THE SITUATION ROOM: You know, we brought together some of the top retired generals, admirals, former U.S. ambassador to Iraq, ambassador Kalil Zad, CIA officer. We brought together several of the top minds, and we got them in our situation room and around our table. And to try to discuss not necessarily how we got to where we are right now but where to go from here. How to stop ISIS? What does the United States need to do? And we are really serious, important discussion. I think our viewers will emerge from this one-hour special later tonight, a little bit smarter on what's going on.

Let me play a little clip. An excerpt of what some of these top military strategists had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Starting with you General Clarke, the president of the United States calls you into his situation room and says, General Clarke, what's the most important thing United States can do right now to defeat ISIS?" you say --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get the Sunni tribes fighting.

BLITZER: You say?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ramp up support so they have the ability to fight.

BLITZER: What does that mean, ramp up support?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think the forward air controllers, more precise, more effective air strikes as a start.

BLITZER: What does he say to you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The most important thing to do is to get to the leadership in Baghdad and tell them to get off their tails and make a difference out in Anbar.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Initially keep ISIS where it is in some form of containment. Long term, you have to do everything this -- these gentlemen have said.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All of the above, with the focus on what admiral said. You have got to persuade and we have not done diplomatically the things we need to do to get the Iraqi government supporting their people, all of their people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: It's interesting because if you speak to these retired officers -- and they're very impressive. General Wesley Clarke, General Carter Hamm, admiral William (INAUDIBLE) at the central command, major general James "Spider" Marks, (INAUDIBLE) lieutenant general, ambassador Kalil Zad, Phil Mudd, they all had very important insight into what's going on, Brooke, right now. So I learned something. I think our viewers will learn something as well.

BALDWIN: Wolf, thank you so much. We'll watch. It's Wolf's Special Reported, "ISIS: what should the U.S. do now," tonight at 9:00 eastern here on CNN. Thank you, sir.

Next, Caitlyn Jenner, formerly Bruce Jenner, has revealed her new image of all places, "Vanity Fair." What's next? How will this moment serve to be an inspiration for others? Does it matter that she's a celebrity? That conversation is straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:39:14] BALDWIN: Now that Caitlyn Jenner is, in her own words, free, many are asking can her change benefit the transgender movement? Her stunning "Vanity Fair" cover exposed the world her courage and bravery. But a lot of her supporters also hope his transition sparks a larger conversation about the transgender community in general.

Actress Laverne Cox who stars on Netflix's "Orange is the New Black" wrote on her blog quote "most trans folks don't have the privileges Caitlyn and I now have. It is those Trans folks; we must continue to lift up."

Joining me, Eliza Byard, executive director of the gay and lesbian and straight education network, an organization that works on LGBT issues in our nation's schools. Just celebrated the 25th anniversary last night. Congratulations. Also with me, celebrity publicist Howard Bragman who represented Chaz Bono during his transition.

So welcome to you.

And Howard, let me begin with you. With your PR hat on, you know, with the "Vanity Fair" cover, the Annie Liebowitz, you know, photo spread, the post-Diane Sawyer pre-reality TV series, you know, moment, what is -- what is the strategy here, and what are potential obstacles?

[15:45:26] HOWARD BRAGMAN, VICE CHAIRMAN, REPUTATION.COM: I think the strategy is a very smart one. Caitlyn did first the interview as Bruce with Diane. And then at the end of that interview, very wisely Bruce said, I'm not going to let you see me reveal myself or present myself as a female yet. And I'm not going to tell you my name.

Well, now we know why he wouldn't do that. He had -- he had "Vanity Fair" all feed up to do that on the cover. It is very smart. Somebody said something interesting and says my God, she's so overexposed. And I said, there's only been two interviews, you know. The exposure has to do, frankly, with social media and the pure level of interest around this.

BALDWIN: With, and so I'm mindful of, you know, the fact that she is such a celebrity. Eliza, my question to you, working with so many just Trans youth, how this whole story has resonated with them. And also how they can relate or not given clearly the resources to then look like this.

ELIZA BYARD, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, GAY, LESBIAN AND STRAIGHT EDUCATION NETWORK: Absolutely. I mean, you know, Howard does -- works on the coming out process, I then think about what happens after this? And what does this mean for young people around the country? And you know, Trans youth are among the most vulnerable of our young people. And to have this kind of example, to have both Laverne Cox and Caitlyn Jenner now in the limelight is just unbelievably powerful. It's also a moment of caution, though, because --.

BALDWIN: Why?

BYARD: Well, think about how much this is in the news. People everywhere are talking about it, and as an advocate and as a mom myself, think about all the young people who are listening now, to hear what adults have to say about this story. It's a moment when we need to really think about what we're expressing as each adult out there sort of works through their own stuff about this. Let's have in mind who's listening and the young people who need to know that this is an interesting moment for our culture and one where someone important has stepped into the limelight.

BALDWIN: What would be, Howard, and especially as I mentioned you helped Chaz transition. What are -- I don't know, take me behind the scenes what that was like. What are some of the choices that Caitlyn Jenner obviously has had to make not just from a publicity standpoint but, you know, a very personal -- all these personal choices?

BRAGMAN: What you have to understand is most people when they transition tend to do it pretty discreetly. They might tell some family members, some love ones and co-workers. But Chaz and Caitlyn just didn't have that luxury. So once you realize that's taken away from you and you have to do a t publicly, you have to say what's most authentic for me. How can I tell my story the best to help the most people. And I know, I know that Caitlyn wants to help other people.

And Laverne was absolutely right. We have to use this as a teachable moment, to be able to talk about this. And that's something that both Chaz and Caitlyn share in common. That they understood they could tell their story, but their story was going resonate with so many others and be so important that they could have this discussion in society. And hopefully, we're using it to lifts up everyone in the transgender community because as everyone acknowledges, people like Chaz, people like Caitlyn, people like Laverne have certain luxuries the rest of the world doesn't have.

BALDWIN: And I think also it's an education for a lot of people, right? I mean, Eliza, even in "Vanity Fair" piece, the interview and all this amazing access was saying, listen, I slipped up and called her, dude, the pronoun issues. Then-Bruce, now Caitlyn referred to herself as a he. So I mean, if they're, you know, making those mistakes, I think we're all allowed a little leeway. How -- what's the right way of talking about this?

BYARD: The right way of talking about this is with respect for what Caitlyn has done, what Laverne has done. And to really be thoughtful about, you know, everyone make mistakes, but if you come to the conversation not assuming anything and asking and thinking about this deeply and not stooping to either fear mongering or allowing any personal conflict you have to sort of slip out in hurtful ways, I think it's an important moment to be thinking about this. We have to remember that so many young people in our schools, particularly those who are coming out as transgender --

BALDWIN: Who you work with --

BYARD: Every day. And our research has shown that these are young people who face the highest rates of physical violence in our schools. And who experience the deepest despair when they are living with that disparity between who they know they are and how people are responding to them. Those young people really need to know that everyone in America is learning about this facet of our great community. That there are members of this community everywhere, not all of them as fortunate, but that they are our friends, neighbors, our children, our teachers, our parents, and that they're all loved and respected.

[15:45:29] BALDWIN: Howard, final thought before we go.

BRAGMAN: This is a wonderful moment we have for society. And as Eliza can tell you, some people know very early and deal with it at an early time in their lives. Chaz dealt with it at 40. Caitlyn dealing with it at 65. It's -- it's happening, and we need to talk about it. And understand that sexuality, gender identity, these are much more complicated issues than we ever wished to acknowledge in the past. And we have to, as Eliza said, allow people the respect and to tell their own stories.

BALDWIN: Well, thanks to the two of you for jumping on CNN and being part of the national dialogue. I appreciate you both very much. Eliza Byard and Howard Bragman, thank you.

BYARD: Thank you.

BRAGMAN: Thanks.

BALDWIN: You got it.

Coming up next, the Senate just voted on critical amendments regarding the NSA's collection of phone data.

Plus, the dash cam video moments before a pastor was shot and killed in Oklahoma. The exchange between the troopers here and this pastor and his brother, we have that for you. You are watching CNN. Stay with me.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:50:48] BALDWIN: All right. Let's go to Washington. Breaking news from Capitol Hill, this showdown over NSA domestic surveillance program. Out senior congressional correspondent Dana Bash is with me now.

And so, talk me through what's just happened in the Senate.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: What has just happened is the White House and their unlikely allies in the house Republican leadership just got a big victory on the floor of the Senate. And the reason is because Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell's push to amend the bipartisan compromise reforming those controversial data dragnet programs. Those move to amend it - that were defeated.

There were three votes. They were all defeated. And so, what that means -- forgive me, I'm sort of watching out of one eye the Senate floor because Mitch McConnell is actually speaking right now. It certainly may be a concession of defeat.

What this means is that in just a short order, a few minutes, the Senate will take a final vote on what the house passed. And that again is reforms to the patriot act, reforms that would change those programs that have to do with surveillance that we've been talking about for a couple of weeks now. And once the Senate passes that, it will go right to the White House and the president will sign it. And what that means is that these programs which have gone dark since Monday because the program expired on June 1st, they will then eventually get back up and running.

BALDWIN: OK. So as I know you're trying to multitask and listen to the Senate majority leader here, bottom line, when will this all hopefully be wrapped up?

BASH: Well the vote is likely to happen to start relatively shortly. And you know, Brooke, actually, I think what we're going to be looking for is after all of this drama, all of this controversies which is, of course, just kind to take a step back, all started and it was all delayed thanks to the very, very long speech and filibuster of the Senate majority leader junior colleagues from Kentucky, Rand Paul, who I should note, McConnell has endorsed for president.

BALDWIN: Right.

BASH: This all happened because he wants the programs to be completely done with. And what is certainly the prevailing view here clearly is that they shouldn't be done with, that there is an importance when it comes to national security, but that they should be amended. And just kind of the short-handed version of the way this compromise is going down and what the president is going to sign is instead of the current system, which is the government retains all of this data that they collect through this dragnet program, it's now going to be transferred over to the telecom companies. And that's the kind of things that Mitch McConnell and some other Republican leaders in the Senate thought was too soft and that it wasn't strong enough. So that's what they were trying to strengthen with the amendments. But because you had so many house Republicans and the White House again joined together, which we almost never see, saying please don't change this, it is a delicate compromise. That prevailed at the end of the day. And that's why you're going to likely see this drama come to an end with this -- at some point today with this going to the White House.

BALDWIN: OK, Dana Bash, thank you.

And as we go to break, I just wanted to take a moment and revisit an incredibly tragic story, the devastating earthquake in Nepal and the six marines who were killed in the crash while on that rescue mission. The family of one of those men, Dustin Lukasiewicz finally got to chance to say good-bye. A motorcade of fire trucks and police cars escorting the hearse carrying his remain, the 146 miles from the Omaha airport to his hometown to Saint Paul, Nebraska. Let's just watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a hard thing to accept. Everybody is doing the best they can to deal with this. We're very fond of our troops and to honor somebody like Dustin means so much.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[15:55:00] BALDWIN: Hundreds from this incredibly close community lining the streets in silence and in gratitude.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:59:53] BALDWIN: Get out of the water, both men approach the troopers and authority say the pastor charged one of the troopers and shoved him to the ground. Both officers opened fire. Updates as we get them.

I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thanks for being with me. I will see you back here tomorrow. "The LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts now.