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Boston Police, FBI Shoot and Kill Knife-Wielding Terror Suspect; President Obama Signs NSA Reform Bill; Obama's Approval Rating Takes Downturn; New Accusations Syrian Gov't and ISIS Working Together; Four Americans Held in Iran. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired June 03, 2015 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:01] CUOMO: You're showing that your best years are ahead of you. And did it for a great cause.

CAMEROTA: Good. And we look forward to you doing that on the show in some future.

CUOMO: Why not you?

CAMEROTA: Let's get to the "NEWSROOM" now with Carol Costello.

Good morning, Carol.

CUOMO: Why not Carol? She's a planking crazy person.

CAMEROTA: Machine.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: I'm going to give the side eye just like Alisyn did.

CUOMO: She was doing a plank right before she came to us. Does it all the time.

COSTELLO: Get out of here. Have a great day, you guys.

It's time for NEWSROOM. NEWSROOM starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: Happening now in the NEWSROOM, American jihadi?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We believed he was a threat.

COSTELLO: Officers shoot and kill a terror suspect. What he allegedly planned to do with his large military knife and why his brother is saying this is all a mistake.

Also, the president of Syria accused of helping ISIS. Is Assad using his warplanes as an air force for the terrorists?

Plus, busted bikers say their arrest are un-American.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I couldn't be more kind hearted. Did nothing wrong. I just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

COSTELLO: Two of the bikers arrested after a deadly Waco shoot-out bailout.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're not here to drink beer and eat barbecues.

COSTELLO: And now those bikers are telling their side of the story to CNN.

Let's talk. Live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

Radicalized by ISIS and tracked 24 hours a day every day, Boston Police shoot and kill a terror suspect after he lunges at authorities with a military-style knife. Now investigators are trying to figure out if Usaama Rahim, the brother of a well-known cleric may have been part of a larger terror plot.

Here's what we know this morning. It's believed Rahim made threats against police on social media and was considered to be a threat. We also know another suspect is now in police custody. He's set to appear in federal court later this morning.

What we don't know. Why authorities decided to zero in on Rahim when they did.

Let's bring in CNN's Alexandra Field. She's covering this story live in Boston.

Good morning.

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey there, good morning, Carol. Authorities were devoting a lot of resources to following Usaama Rahim all day every day, so when law enforcement officials noticed a change in his behavior they decided it was time to step in, approaching him outside of a CVS Pharmacy. The confrontation turned deadly, as we all know, and now police are turning their attention toward his possible associates.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FIELD (voice-over): Today in Everett, Massachusetts, a man in custody. Police making the arrest last night in connection with the fatal shooting of a terror suspect in Boston by police Tuesday morning.

It all began around 7:00 in the morning when the FBI and Boston police descended on this CVS, aiming to question the suspect, 26-year-old Usaama Rahim.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, we have a gentleman. A black male, six feet, coming out now with a knife. FIELD: Rahim had been under 24-hour surveillance by the Joint

Terrorism Task Force. Radicalized, according to one official, by ISIS and other extremist influences. The FBI says Rahim made threats against police on social media.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. There's shots fired. Unit, shots fired.

FIELD: When officers approached him, Rahim lunged at them with this knife, authorities say, before a federal agent and Boston Police officer fired, hitting him in the torso and abdomen.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAM EVANS, BOSTON POLICE: The officers asked -- again, gave several commands for him to drop the weapon and unfortunately he came at the officers and, you know, they do what they were trained to do and unfortunately they had to take a life and that's never an easy decision for any officer to do.

FIELD: Rahim's brother, an imam at a mosque in California, paints a different picture, saying on social media that his younger brother was on his cell phone with their father, waiting for the bus when he was confronted by police and shot in the back three times. He says his brother's last words were, "I can't breathe."

The shooting is now under investigation and Boston Police say they have a video documenting the entire event.

DANIEL CONLEY, SUFFOLK COUNTY, MASS DISTRICT ATTORNEY: We saw the video. It appears that the law enforcement officers were backing away before they exercised deadly force.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FIELD: And Carol, that surveillance video will be key to understanding the sequence of events that unfolded outside of that CVS but it's part of the investigation right now, so the district attorney's office is not releasing it to the public. However, the Boston Police Department, their commissioner, in conjunction with the district attorney's office, has decided to invite local, black and Islamic community leaders to view that video privately, to try and give them a clear understanding of exactly what happened.

There is some precedent for this. The Boston Police Department has done this in the case of another officer-involved shooting. They say this is about accountability. It's also about transparency, and certainly it's an idea and becoming a practice that has been well received -- Carol.

[09:05:09] COSTELLO: All right. Alexandra Field, reporting live from Boston.

It is interesting to point out that Rahim's brother is that well-known California imam. He actually spoke to CNN back in 2013. Ibraham Rahim voiced his objection to presiding over the funeral of the Boston bomber funeral, Tamerlan Tsarnaev.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

IMAM IBRAHIM RAHIM, THE LIGHTHOUSE MOSQUE: This man has done something that is very, very evil, and we don't stand with evil and we are a people of conscience. There is no obligation on us as a Muslim clergy to do this funeral for the family. There is no obligation from Islam, from Islamic law, and from the Holy Quran, from Prophet Mohammed that requires us to do so, so we don't. We abstain.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Yet the imam is standing up for his brother who is now accused of having links to ISIS.

Let's bring in CNN law enforcement analyst and former FBI assistant director, Tom Fuentes.

Good morning, Tom.

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Good morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: I want to start by asking you about this. The Boston police have decided to show this video of this police shooting, a police shooting Rahim at that bus stop. In attendance will be leaders from the Muslim and black communities. Why are they doing this?

FUENTES: Because, you know, in order to have an effective counterterrorism program, or even criminal programs, they need the support of the community. So they're obviously anxious for the community members to see this video and see that the police had no choice, the officer and the agent that fired on Rahim had to, their lives was being threatened by that giant knife that he was wielding, and they want people to see this and not listen to somebody else that's 3,000 miles away.

COSTELLO: "The Boston Globe" is reporting police were investigating Rahim because he actually planned to kill a police officer. We know that Rahim made threats on social media towards police. At what point would police decide to move in on this man?

FUENTES: Well, what would happen in this case is the joint terrorism task force run by the FBI and 20 other agencies belong to it in the Boston area would be receiving these information broadcasts and jihadi postings going back more than a year where ISIS has been calling for followers all over the world to behead people. It happened on the streets of London where two soldiers had their heads cut off in front of witnesses, it almost happened in Sidney, Australia last September but the Australians were able to thwart the plot.

So the possibility here is that if they had 24/7 physical surveillance on Rahim they probably also had electronic surveillance as well, and they may have received or intercepted a message to him yesterday morning saying, OK, carry out the attack and out he goes, out the door of his home with that giant knife. And the police and the FBI just can't stand by because it would take all of a tenth of a second for him to plunge that knife into somebody on the bus, at the bus stop, whether it's a police officer or not. And in the original ISIS broadcast they requested that not only cut

somebody's head off but video it and they will ensure that it goes viral around the world for recruiting purposes.

COSTELLO: And speaking of that knife, and you brought up this point yesterday and I found it interesting, you know, police confiscated this knife off the sky, and the knife looks an awful lot like the knife held by the ISIS terrorists who beheaded hostages.

What do you make of that?

FUENTES: Well, I think he's possibly wanting to emulate them. I mean, there's only so many knives of that size, whether it's kitchen cutlery or military grade weapons that you can buy just about anywhere, or the surplus store or anywhere else. So -- but I think that, you know, to me it indicates that he wants to show solidarity with Jihadi John, who, you know, is seen in numerous videos wielding that knife and then also in those videos, standing next to the decapitated hostage over and over again.

So I think that that's another indication that the authorities had to worry about, that this individual, it would take -- even standing down at a street corner away from this person, he could kill within less than a second and they wouldn't be able to prevent it. So I think that that's what led to them not only taking action against him, but also whoever else he was in communication with, because, you know, it probably took more than one in this plot.

COSTELLO: Tom Fuentes, thanks for your insight. I appreciate it, as always.

FUENTES: You're welcome, Carol.

COSTELLO: Signed, sealed and finally deliver after weeks of drama on the Capitol Hill. President Obama signed the NSA reform bill last night. The move stripping the agency of its authority to collect Americans' phone records in bulk. Under the new law phone companies like AT&T and Verizon are supposed to keep records that could be accessed by the NSA with a special court order.

Now it's unclear how long those companies have to keep those phone records but one thing is clear. The NSA could become a hot issue for 2016.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[09:10:08] GEORGE PATAKI (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think it's just unfortunate in these very dangerous times we have weakened intelligence at a time we need an enhanced intelligence, and as I was saying, all of these incidents point back to ISIS, and instead of degrading and destroying ISIS, they grow stronger because we do not have an effective strategy and that has got to change.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Athena Jones is in Washington for us this morning with more.

Good morning.

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. This is a significant sweeping reform as you have critics who say that it's made America less safe but supporters are saying that it's a big deal in moving in the correct direction.

Senator Patrick Leahy of Vermont who is one of the chief backers of reform efforts said it's the first major overhaul of government surveillance in decades. What does it do? As you mentioned it takes the bulk -- it ends the bulk collection of data, the phone data, and it takes that data out of the hands of the government, putting it in the hands of phone companies. But it does give a six-month transition time to make that transition from government control to the phone companies.

What else does it do? It brings back -- this law brings back those roving wiretaps that are used to track terrorists suspects who may be changing phones, changing cell phones. It also brings back the lone -- lone wolf surveillance tools that allow authorities to track suspects who are believed to be involved in terrorists-related activities but not necessarily linked to a specific terrorist group.

Now I should mention that this bill has been signed but it's not as though you just simply flip a switch and everything comes back when it comes to this data collection, so what they'll first have to do is some technical things, fire up the servers, coordinate the data bases to get bulk collection going, but they also on the legal side have to get a court order from a special Foreign Intelligence Surveillance court, that government makes a filing with that court and they need to verify that the collection program is legal under the new law.

So that could take another three or four days. So it isn't immediate, but what is interesting, Carol, is after all of the drama on Capitol Hill especially in the Senate that bill ended up passing with a large majority of 67, and here we are now.

COSTELLO: Here we are now. Athena Jones, thanks so much.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, former president George W. Bush probably woke up with a smile this morning. A new CNN poll shows America is warming up to him in a big way. I guess absence really does make the heart grow fonder.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:16:38] COSTELLO: Americans' view of President Obama's work in the White House is taking a downward turn. That's according to a new CNN/ORC poll which show 52 percent now disapprove of how the president is handling his job. That's up five points from last month. And the increase in disapproval seems to be universal, crossing party lines, found among men and women, whites and nonwhites.

As for his predecessor, George W. Bush, it seems absence does indeed make the heart grow founder. For the first time in a decade, more Americans say they like Bush than dislike him. 52 percent have a favorable opinion compared to 43 percent who have an unfavorable view. What's behind the surge in all of that love?

Here to talk about that, David Gergen, former adviser to Presidents Nixon, Ford, Reagan, and Clinton. Good morning.

DAVID GERGEN, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL ADVISOR TO NIXON, FORD, REAGAN, CLINTON: Good morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: Thanks for being here.

GERGEN: Great to see you again.

COSTELLO: George W. Bush -- great to see you too.

George W. Bush, a popular guy. When he left his office, his approval rating was 33 percent. What gives?

GERGEN: Well, Carol, the point you made about that distance makes the heart grow fonder does work here, as it has for other presidents. His father left with about 50 percent approval rating; he's up to two- thirds now of Americans who -- Jimmy Carter went up in people's estimation. Bill Clinton has done very well since he left the presidency.

I think there are a couple other factors for Bush. One is the blame is shifting on Iraq from Bush to Obama, so for a long time after Obama first took office, most Americans blamed George W. Bush for the mess in Iraq. Now, in this new poll, it's about even. They blame both men, Obama and Bush, about the same.

The second thing is, Carol, that George W. Bush has consciously taken a view that he does not want to second guess and critique the incumbent president, and I think that's given him a -- he -- the personality that's come out is more avuncular, he's been funny on the -- on the -- when he's been out speaking. I think he's handled himself well in the minds of most people by not jumping in to the middle and becoming partisan.

COSTELLO: Yes, and we have a sound bite, actually. That's what we call it in the business. We have a sound bite of George W. Bush about how he talked about President Obama and the difficult job he has. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You don't want to criticize the Obama administration. Is that something that you've really made a decision --

GEORGE W. BUSH, FMR. PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It doesn't do any good. It's a hard job. He's got plenty on his agenda, and it's difficult. And a former president doesn't need to make it harder.

(END VIDEO CLIP) COSTELLO: The interesting thing here, David, W is having a negative on Jeb Bush, so if people are liking George W. more, why wouldn't that be more of a positive for his brother?

GERGEN: That's a good question. I'm not sure we know the answer to that. Maybe -- I do think Americans are judging Jeb so far as his own man, and what they've seen so far is -- both Jeb and Hillary Clinton, what you see is their disapproval ratings have been gradually rising for the last several months. They have been drifting upwards in both cases, and for Jeb Bush, right now when he's trying to break out of this huge Republican field, that's not good news. He needs to find a way, people are getting concerned around him, you know, his numbers in Iowa have drifted into a more negative place, early state, important state.

[09:20:01] He needs -- I think he's going to become a better candidate. He hasn't found his footing yet, as he answered those questions on Iraq. I assume he'll become candidate; we will have to wait and see.

COSTELLO: Well, he has a long time to practice.

GERGEN: We have a long time.

COSTELLO: That's right.

Let's talk about Bill Clinton because, as you said, he's as popular as ever. 64 percent view him favorably. So is this helping Hillary Clinton or not?

GERGEN: It doesn't seem to have rubbed off on her much, although I think she started, because of who she is, her own accomplishments, she started pretty high in the polls, and as I say, some of the disapproval has drifted up. Her approval has drifted down.

But her bigger concern right now with a new poll is what is happening with President Obama's ratings. Historically we know this, there have been six elections since World War II when there's been -- the presidency essentially has been open. There's been an incumbent party running with an open -- and not an incumbent running, but an incumbent party running. And in those six cases, in the three instances in which the incumbent party president was below 50 percent in the favorability, the party lost in the general election. So Hillary Clinton is to a considerable extent tied to Obama's approval ratings. And this new poll has President Obama coming down some, in the mid- 40s, but it's a pretty sharp drop since the last time around, CNN was out there in April with numbers.

So I think she has a -- she is worried about the Clinton Foundation and how all this is going to turn out, but I think she has to also keep her eye on President Obama. The better he does, the better she's going to be in the general election.

COSTELLO: Gotcha. Thank you so much. David Gergen, I appreciate your insight as always.

GERGEN: Thank you, Carol.

COSTELLO: New accusations that ISIS and Syria's president are working together. The U.S. embassy in Syria has long closed its doors, but it's still tweeting. Just hours ago, it tweeted this message. Quote, "Coalition partners noted the continued deterioration of the situation in Syria, and the inability and unwillingness of the Assad regime to fight ISIL," which of course is ISIS. In a tweet on Monday, it went even further, saying quote, "With these latest reports, Assad is not only avoiding ISIL lines but actively seeking to bolster their position."

There are fears ISIS is about to seize Syria's bombed-out city of Aleppo, with help from the Syrian president. CNN's senior international correspondent, Nick Paton Walsh joins us now to tell us more. Hi, Nick.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Carol, it's a very complex theory that we are dealing with here and some it is quite conspiratorial, but it goes back to the early idea that perhaps when the U.S. had a military presence here, Bashar al Assad was allowing some jihadists here in Syria, sanctuary, so they could attack the U.S. And then those men came on to become al Qaeda extremists, the Islamic State in Iraq, which then became ISIS.

Now, the theory that some people suggest is that he had good contacts, or his intelligence had good contacts with them, and that somehow they are cooperating to hammer the more moderate rebels, some extremists too themselves, who are giving the regime inside Syria the hardest time.

Now that seems, more recently, according to those tweets from the U.S. embassy in Syria, as you say long closed its doors, to take contraction in the fact that the regime is in fact hitting moderate rebel positions, so they say, as they are trying to also fight off ISIS. Now, this fighting is happening to the east of Aleppo. It's near a vital supply line that goes down from the Turkish border to the rebel-held areas in the east of the city.

Now, the potential catastrophe that awaits us here, Carol, is that if ISIS do cut that supply route off, they effectively got control of those rebel-held areas because sooner or later they're going to run out of supplies and need to use that route out towards Turkey. If that happens, there's potentially 300,000 to 600,000 -- no one quite knows how many -- civilians in just the rebel-held areas alone of Aleppo, the biggest city in Syria that's not the capital, who could well be under ISIS control.

And then, of course to the west of the city, we have the issue of the regime-held areas; they're suffering, surrounded actually now, increasingly under pressure, and they could also face ISIS. Fears that actually awful things could happen there as well if ISIS move into that area. Carol.

COSTELLO: All right, Nick Paton Walsh reporting live for us this morning. Thanks so much. Still to come in the NEWSROOM, is it ludicrous to have nuclear deal

with Iran as long as Americans are being held in Iran? A family member of one of those detained Americans is speaking out next.

[09:24:24]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: And good morning. I am Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

Just in to CNN, officials say ISIS has shut the gates of the Ramadi dam. That stops the flow of water to two Iraq communities. The terror group looking to launch attacks once those water levels drop. Another motive to kill people of thirst in pro-government towns. We'll keep you posted.

It was an emotionally gripping afternoon on Capitol hill. Families of Americans detained in Iran pleaded with lawmakers for their release.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALI REZAIAN, BROTHER OF IRANIAN DETAINEE JASON REZAIAN: While simply doing his job, Jason and his wife were taken without warning, and he has now been detained in Evan Prison for 315 days.

NAGHMEH ABEDINI, WIFE OF IRANIAN DETAINEE SAEED ABEDINI: I stand before you today not as a lawyer or a politician -- I'm actually very scared of speaking in public -- but as a wife of a husband who's imprisoned in Iran because of his Christian faith.

SARAH HEKMATI, SISTER OF IRANIAN DETAINEE AMIR HEKMATI: For over three years, our family's been living a nightmare. Every day, we wake up hoping that it is the day we found out Amir will finally be released and is returning home.

DANIEL LEVINSON, SON OF IRANIAN DETAINEE ROBERT LEVINSON: There's not day that goes by when we don't think of him, how much he must be suffering, and what we can do next to bring him home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[09:30:01] COSTELLO: These are four Americans being held in Iran right now just as negotiators seek to expand ties with Iran through a historic nuclear agreement.