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Dr. Drew
New Caitlyn Reality Video; ESPYs Controversy; Celebrity Behavior; Click Fix; Dr. Drew`s Qs. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired June 03, 2015 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:10]
DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST: Tonight, a transgender celebrity is actually bashing Caitlyn Jenner. She is here to tell us why she feels that way.
And the Duggars speak publicly for the first time about the scandal that has rocked that family. You`ll see what me and my panel have to say about
that.
But it all starts right now with the top of the feed.
Here is the first look at Caitlyn Jenner`s new reality show on E!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAITLYN JENNER (VOICEOVER): So many people go through life and they never deal with their own issues, no matter what the issues are. Ours happen to
be gender identity. But how many people go through life and just waste their entire life because they never deal with themselves, be who they are?
JENNER: OK. We`re officially off the property. We`re out into the world.
It`s so bright out there. Look at that. Isn`t it great that maybe someday you`ll be normal, just blend into society?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You are normal.
JENNER: Put it this way, I`m the new normal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Joining me, Erica America, radio host and psychotherapist, Judy Ho, clinical psychologist and professor at Pepperdine University, and
Michael Catherwood, my "Loveline" and KABC radio co-host.
Some people are bothered, Judy, by the notion that Caitlyn could be the new normal. They feel that there`s a clash of world views here coming together
with poor Caitlyn.
JUDY HO, PH.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, poor Caitlyn. I mean, she is now kind of in the middle of everything and everyone`s going to be judging
her. Everyone`s going to be making comments about whatever.
PINSKY: Dangerous? Is that dangerous?
HO: I think that it`s a little bit. I mean, I know that she`s been trying to do this in a thoughtful way over a period of time. But I am worried
because now, there`s so much scrutiny. There`s people picking sides. And I don`t think that that`s the most supportive thing because we know people
with gender dysphoria tend to have correlates with other types of things like anxiety and depression, especially when they feel like people are
judging their identities.
PINSKY: In the interview, Erica, he said at one point, when he was - before fully transferred over to Caitlyn and became a she - and again, I`m
confused about the pronouns. I - some people say I should be using "she" throughout the lifespan of someone who eventually is transgender. But
let`s say when it was Bruce, Bruce had suicidal thoughts, thinking about getting a gun when this story broke. That`s a sign that there could be
trouble ahead.
ERICA AMERICA, RADIO HOST: Yes. Well, that`s why - again, I - I just want to say I overall think that this is a positive thing. I think it`s a
positive story for the trans.
PINSKY: For her.
AMERICA: --for her, personally.
PINSKY: And positive for the transgender community.
AMERICA: --and for the transgender community because I do think this is something she thought about for a long time for many years.
PINSKY: But, Erica, I raised the question - but, wait, wait.
AMERICA: I do think she needs to be in serious therapy. Not just have the amazing cameras around and then the Annie Leibovitz taking those amazing
pictures of her. Yes, she is beautiful. Don`t get me wrong. And like drop-dead, I mean, honestly, gorgeous. But what I`m saying is she needs
such support. To be transitioning to another gender is so huge especially if you have comorbid issues like depression and anxiety and stuff like
that.
PINSKY: Sure. Sure. And it`s public and the medication like the hormones.
AMERICA: Yes. Absolutely.
PINSKY: --and there are many, many layers as I mentioned at several times. But, Mike, what I`m trying to say here though is that she has become sort
of the "ground zero" of a fight around a world view. People are.
MIKE CATHERWOOD, DR. DREW`S "LOVELINE" CO-HOST: Correct.
PINSKY: --saying that they - we heard this last night from a religious sort of gentleman who was saying that, "You may want to support her but
that`s a world view I don`t like and I don`t." - and so he`d be - sat very judgmental here against her.
CATHERWOOD: Well, I mean, even the way he stated it, it`s a world view that he personally doesn`t like. And I do think that it - Caitlyn might be
the new normal in the sense that we`re stepping into a world now that embraces a lot of lifestyles that in the past, you would want to alter or
kind of cater to what the social norm would be.
PINSKY: Pathologize. People would pathologize it. People would make them - this an illness (inaudible). Yes.
CATHERWOOD: And, Drew, my big concern is - and I - obviously, I think that this is, like Erica said, a good thing for the transcommunity. It`s a good
thing for Caitlyn. It`s certainly a good thing just the fact that we`re having this conversation. But I do worry that with reality shows and these
magazine covers, that a community that has already been the victim of exploitation will then be further exploited for media purposes.
PINSKY: Well, hold on. I want to bring in via Skype Pastor Mark Harris from the First Baptist Church of Charlotte, North Carolina.
And maybe you could help me sort of understand.
CATHERWOOD: Good times.
PINSKY: --no - why Caitlyn is perhaps a problem if she says this is the new normal, why people might not like that.
MARK HARRIS, BAPTIST PASTOR: Well, I think you said it best, Drew, and the fact that you said this is a clash of world views and I think there`s -
everyone recognizes that. A world view that many people hold in this country is - would be a biblical world view that basically, God created
male and female and oftentimes, this issue finds itself wrapped around individuals that are going through very, very difficult times themselves
and are facing some other psychological issues. I think you raise a great point in the fact that there were some issue of some suicidal tendencies or
feelings or that early on even prior to this.
[21:05:09]
PINSKY: (inaudible).
AMERICA: Yes. So did you think that everyone who is gay is having like some there are bipolar or something and that`s why they`re gay? Is - do
you think that as well? Just curious.
HARRIS: Well, no. Repeat the question one more time.
AMERICA: Yes, (inaudible).
PINSKY: Let me - let me put it this way. Let me put it this way. The problem with that world view for me is it assumes that if we treat
underlying psychiatric issues, the issue in question is going to go away. That - for me, that`s very much like drug addiction, like if you treat the
depression, they`re no longer going to be a drug addict and those are different things and they require two different approaches. And the
professionals - the people who think about these things are thinking about transgender as a separate phenomenon that is not pathological even though
there are comorbid disorders.
I want to bring in Jade Ponce. She`s a transgender YouTuber herself.
Jade, you hear the conversation out here. You`ve been the object of some of this. You understand what we`re talking about. What do you think?
JADE PONCE, TRANSGENDER YOUTUBER: I think that the great thing as a transwoman, I`m so excited for this. I know that it could be a little bit
exploiting, but then again, this visibility is amazing. `Cause I know a lot of people that didn`t know what transgender was and I have people
coming up to me, asking me more about it. I am thrilled.
AMERICA: I think it`s - I have to say, it`s amazing because exactly what you said. Nobody was talking about this before. Now, they are. But at
the same time, this is getting done - as we saw by this clip earlier today - Kardashian-style. So of course, what do we expect? It`s going to be
super over-the-top and exploited but that`s just how it is.
PINSKY: What she says on her new show that it`s difficult - she now sees how difficult it is for women to keep up their appearance. Take a look at
this little clip from E!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENNER (VOICEOVER): You go through all this stuff and you start learning kind of the pressure that women are under all the time about their
appearance.
JENNER (ON-CAMERA): I never had - until a couple of weeks ago - actually a professional come in and do my make-up. What a difference.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: And then Jon Stewart on "The Daily Show" says the following.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JON STEWART: Caitlyn, when you were a man, we could talk about your athleticism, your business acumen, but now, you`re a woman and your looks
are really the only thing we care about.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I mean, he does make an interesting point that suddenly the issue of being a woman becomes what`s on the (inaudible) of what`s really it
means to be a woman which is another layer of conversation we should be having, Judy.
HO: That`s right. And I think, right now, we`re just tapping the surface. He who is a she now - Caitlyn - is now starting to deal with more of the
transitory things about being a woman - the way that others judge you, of course, she`s adding to some of that judgment by putting it out there. But
there are so many deeper issues we should be discussing, Dr. Drew, and I think that`s so much of the publicity that we`re having now can forward a
conversation if we`re going to have those discussions about what gender dysphoria really is. (Inaudible).
PINSKY: No, and what being a woman is, you guys. What is it that means to be a woman? Is it just you physically alter everything and put on some
make-up? No.
AMERICA: Well, Dr. Drew, I think we can all agree - I think we can all agree that this is complex. This is very - it`s much more complex that
what we`re seeing and her getting a makeover.
CATHERWOOD: The layer - the layer that I don`t think enough people talk about, the layer that I think most of us can relate to is the idea of
finding your identity as a human being and (inaudible) the trouble to do so regardless of the life you live. I mean, everyone kind of (inaudible)
problem.
PINSKY: Here`s what I think. (Inaudible). Well, it`s two things. One is I just don`t know when we move forward with openness and acceptance and
more sophisticated ideas about humans and human behavior and the range of fluidity of human behavior. We`re going back has been a good thing. I
don`t know - which this may go forward has been a good thing, right? The other thing is and I - audience, do you - how many of you remember how
famous Bruce Jenner was when he was one of the most famous athletes in the world? You guy? OK. Well, here`s - most people - even though you guys
are applauding, I don`t believe you because the reality is he was about as famous as Muhammad Ali at the time and people forget that. So it would be
this - the amazing thing about this story is it would be the same as if somebody like Muhammad Ali stepped up and goes, "I think I`m going to
change." I mean, because he`s been in the Kardashian system, people have forgotten how famous this gentleman was.
Now, Caitlyn. Next up, the first transgender television reporter is here. What she says about Caitlyn may - in fact - surprise you. We`ll be back
with it after this.
ALI NEJAD, "THE DAILY SHARE": I`m Ali Nejad with "The Daily Share" at this hour.
At 61-years-old, Godzilla finally becomes a citizen of Japan and he`s been appointed tourism ambassador, believe it or not. His duties are to attract
visitors from around the globe. A giant-size replica of the King of monsters hovers over the downtown area of Shinjuku and a Japanese film
company plans to release a new Godzilla flick next year.
OK. If you`re in the Hawaiian islands today and saw a flying saucer in the sky, you`re probably not seeing things. That`s because NASA is testing
this disc-shaped rocket over the island of Kauai because it has plans to send men to Mars by 2035.
[21:10:09] And this Low Density Supersonic Decelerator or LDSD as they call it is how the agency plans to have humans land on the surface of the red
planet.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jenner will profit from her new reality show on E!
ZOEY TUR: Jenner is selling a product. Jenner is selling sex. Jenner is part of the Kardashian cast and in keeping with that tradition, Jenner has
come off as looking very, very attractive and sexy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "If I can make a dollar, I certainly am not stupid. I have house payments and all that kind of stuff. I will never make an
excuse for something like that. Yes, this is a business."
ZOEY TUR: This is a rollout of a product. This is brilliant marketing and for anyone to say that this is a transgender person moving at their pace is
absurd.
(END VIDEO CLIPS)
PINSKY: Cashing in on Caitlyn, it seems that the Kardashian empire may be expanding.
I`m back with Erica, Judy, and Mike, and joining us - whom you just heard there - transgender television reporter, Zoey Tur.
Zoey, why do you take issue with this?
ZOEY TUR, TRANSGENDER TV REPORTER: Well, it`s being - it`s being done as a product rollout. You see a glossy series of photographs. The way Jenner
has come out over a long period of time, initially denying that she was transgender, denying that she had surgery - facial feministic surgery.
PINSKY: But you and I have talked about this before and we thought the rollout slow was good, it helped everybody come to terms with it, helped
her come to terms with it, it`s how you would sort of tell a family, no?
TUR: No. I don`t think so because at some point, you come out and you`re out to your friends and your family and you deal with it. But with respect
to the way Jenner has come out, it`s been a staged rollout based on ratings, based on sweeps week, and also - just like any sort of product.
[21:15:06]
PINSKY: OK. Still with us is Jade Ponce. She is a transgender YouTuber.
Jade, do you want to comment on this as well?
PONCE: Yes. I don`t agree at all. I`m sorry. I think that easing into it - at the end of the day, it`s a transition, not just for you, not just
for me, for the people around you. I think it`s not just publicity. I think - if I had the money and I wanted to change something and help my
transition go a little bit smoother, I would absolutely do that. So (inaudible).
PINSKY: You disagree?
TUR: Well, I not only do - do I disagree but people don`t really understand how things work in Hollywood. This is - the family knows.
PINSKY: Do you regret - you have been very public with this. You regret having been public yourself?
TUR: I`ve been very public. It was broken on TMZ and I cooperated from the onset. It was.
PINSKY: Was that traumatic for you?
TUR: It became an international story for five days. But I had talked to my family. We prepared. We knew it would be a big story. And it was and
I dealt with it because there`s nothing to be ashamed about being transsexual or transgender.
CATHERWOOD: Zoey, don`t you think though that anyone even tangentially related to the Kardashian family and Caitlyn`s directly related - they`ve
kind of given up and sacrificed their ability to go ahead and go at their own pace. Everything they do - regardless of if it`s manufactured or not -
I mean, it`s going to have to be put on television (inaudible).
TUR: You make the best point. And the point is that these are Kardashian cast members and they`ve signed in on to a reality show. So to say that
this should be staged and that there should be privacy and going at their own pace, then don`t be on a TV show.
CATHERWOOD: Well, I - my point being.
PINSKY: Well, the other issue I want to bring here is what I brought up in the previous block. I still have Pastor Mark Harris here with us.
And this issue of there being a world view at odds here with, for instance, a biblical world view that Mark has. You want to state that again, Mr.
Harris - Pastor Harris?
HARRIS: Well, basically, that many people believe that God created us and he created male and female. And I think one of the things that`s being
left out of this conversation that - that is probably most concerning to me is the compassion for the individual that is not finding happiness within
themselves and as they are created. And I think that that`s one of the concerns that - in many of these cases - still end up requiring a great
deal of counseling, still end up requiring a lot of things along the way, and some of these folks end up with greater issues after the fact.
PINSKY: OK. Zoey?
TUR: Well, he`s forgetting that this is a brain anomaly. You can see it on MRI scans. There`s - and you get receptor issues and it`s like treating
insulin - problems with insulin, diabetes, heart disease. It is a genetic anomaly that`s treated medically with hormone replacement, therapy, and
sometimes surgery. To say that this is strictly just a psychological issue is absurd.
PINSKY: We have an audience question here. Let`s give them the microphone if you guys don`t mind.
Go ahead. Yes, ma`am.
FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hello, Dr. Drew. My name is Dariel(ph) Edwards. How I feel about Bruce Jenner - because I will not call him "Caitlyn"
because he is not a woman, he cannot bear a child, he does not have a menstrual at the end of the month - he is not a woman. God made man and
woman. He made man and woman for a reason and Bruce Jenner is destroying what God created.
PINSKY: Who would like to respond to that? Judy? Judy, go ahead.
HO: Yes. You know, I don`t - I don`t - I don`t think that that`s true. I think God actually created Bruce the way He created Bruce which is somebody
who actually had an identity issue. I`m actually still making a point about the creation aspect because God was the one who created Bruce in the
way that he was, with the brain anomaly, with the issues that he has, that he doesn`t believe that he was born into the right body, and that is part
of God`s creation. If God.
FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: That`s society. That`s society.
HO: I - that`s not society.
CATHERWOOD: And there`s also - remember, plenty of women are born without the ability to bear children or have a menstrual cycle.
FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: That`s very true but they still have the organs of a woman. God did not create Bruce to be a woman. He created Bruce to be a
man and take care of his family and provide for his family as a man. There is already more men and this - on this earth than women.
HO: He can provide as a man or a woman however he chooses. He has been there - she has been there for the children. He actually came out to the
children in private ways instead of on TV. And I think that that`s unfair and it`s a very uneducated statement.
PINSKY: Wait, wait. No, wait. No, wait. What`s your name again? Your name?
FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Dariel(ph) Edwards.
PINSKY: Dariel(ph), have you ever heard of something - probably not - "testicular feminization" where people are born as a man but they don`t
have androgen receptors and they (inaudible) cells would turn into a woman?
FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes. Yes.
PINSKY: But they`re really a man.
FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: That`s not really happened at the beginning when they`re first born.
PINSKY: Yes.
HO: That`s what happens.
PINSKY: But there`s all kinds of mistakes like that God makes is that what do we do (inaudible) they have ambiguous genitalia, they can`t (inaudible).
CATHERWOOD: Also, look, if you choose not to refer to her as Caitlyn, that`s your right in this land.
[21:20:01]
FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Exactly. I have no problem with that.
CATHERWOOD: --and - but don`t you feel that Caitlyn or Bruce - however you refer to them - also has the right to live his or her life what in a way
that makes him feel (inaudible).
PINSKY: Somebody grab the mike from her. You have a question or comment?
FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I did. Hi, Dr. Drew, I`m Kimberly Comar(ph) and I`m from Missouri and I just wanted to say one thing that you just said.
God didn`t make a mistake when he made people, 100 percent. I`m a Christian. I believe that. But I believe - and this is the thing that
frustrates me. We`re not here to judge. We`re here to let people live their lives.
PINSKY: Would you agree that if you`re using the bible to hurt somebody else, you`re using the bible incorrectly?
FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: That`s wrong. And the people that are doing that are absolutely wrong.
PINSKY: So I - how am I doing on time here?
FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I agree with that. I agree with that. I would not go call him any kind of names but I will not refer to him as a woman
because if you also listen to the bible, it - God made Adam and Eve and he made them for a reason.
PINSKY: You know what? I think you`re.
FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I`ve got something else.
PINSKY: --hang on. I think you guys are hurting Zoey. That`s hurtful to her.
FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Here`s the deal though. God created free will and whatever we decide to do with our lives, that`s free will. And there`s
only one person that can judge me and guess what? He`s a loving God. He`s going to love you and He`s going to love me, and he`s going to love
everybody else and we`re all going to be loved.
PINSKY: All right. We`re going to - we`re going to - we`re going to leave this right here. We`re going to continue the conversation. Hang on, Mark.
Mr. Harris, I appreciate it.
And later, we`ll hear on what the Duggars are saying tonight. They`re having an interview - they`ve had an interview we`re going to be monitoring
and giving to you in a few minutes about their son and his admitted transgressions against children.
Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:25:01]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)
JENNER: I knew once the games were over with, win, lose, or draw, I`ll pick the pieces up and I`ll go on with life.
My mind is still writing checks but my body can`t cash them right now, OK. You know what I mean?
Kris has really been handling me as my manager for - ever since we (inaudible), actually, we`re coming up on 20 years of marriage.
(END VIDEO CLIPS)
PINSKY: And we are talking about Caitlyn Jenner and the reaction she has generated since she has gone public. We`re back with Eric, Judy, and Mike.
Zoey Tur is back with us as well in the audience.
And, Zoey, we just - before the break - had some very powerful commentary about things that people are thinking out there in the world. They have
Christian points of view, they have biblical points of view, they have world view points of view. How do you react to all that?
TUR: Well, I kind of see this type of religion and some of these thoughts as a form of - it`s almost like the American Taliban and they use - people
use religion as a form of terrorism. And I think we`re seeing - it`s very, very troubling. Television - reality television could be used. It`s a
mighty sword against intolerance and bigotry, and yet, we`re still fighting. It`s 2015 and we`re still dealing with people that are screaming
about a book that was written 2,000 years ago.
PINSKY: Can you give the mike back to the young lady that started the whole thing? You (inaudible) - I mean, you better stand up `cause they
need that for the light, I think, and the cameras. But how about when this kind of energy was directed at gay folk, for instance, people that had a
certain sexual orientation? Were - did you change your attitude about that or were you one of those people that`s very judgmental of that population
as well?
FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I`m not judgmental. I have family that are gay.
PINSKY: But why - but maybe you changed your attitude because it became more normative, just like Caitlyn said, the new normal?
FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: It`s like not the normal. I don`t think it should be the new normal. What I`m saying is I don`t think that people should be
changing their appearance.
PINSKY: Did you have issues with people being homosexual?
FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: No, I don`t have an issue with them being homosexual. You can be whatever you want. I won`t judge you for it. I
have gay friends.
PINSKY: But just.
HO: You know, I`m confused. That`s - why is that different for you? Why do you see homosexuality as so different from being transgender? Which
actually are separate issues.
FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: They`re - I don`t believe that they`re different but what I believe like you can`t just go around saying you`re a woman. I
don`t believe that I should call you a woman.
CATHERWOOD: Fair enough. And it`s fair enough. You can believe whatever you choose to believe. But the fact is - the fact that you.
FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Exactly. This is my belief. This is my (inaudible).
CATHERWOOD: I understand that. No, (inaudible). That is your belief and I respect that. But the fact that you - that you`re so adamant about not
calling her "Caitlyn", you understand that that in and of itself is hurtful to her.
FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: That`s my own opinion.
CATHERWOOD: I understand. But.
FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I can say what I want. I mean, I won`t (inaudible).
TUR: Then own your - then own your own opinion and say, "This is my opinion".
FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: OK. But this is my opinion.
CATHERWOOD: Right. Of course, it is.
TUR: --and don`t - and don`t (inaudible).
CATHERWOOD: But you acknowledge the fact that by saying certain words, just by a matter of referring to her as "Bruce", it is inherently very
hurtful but you`re willingly doing that and that`s to me.
FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: That`s my opinion. That`s my opinion.
PINSKY: Hold on. Go ahead.
FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: If he came- if he came up to me directly, would I abuse him like verbally abuse him? No. He`s a human. He`s what God
created. (Inaudible). But would I go and say, hell, "She"? No, I will not call him, "She".
AMERICA: But isn`t the center of all religion about love and acceptance? Do you think that? Do you.
FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I`m sorry?
AMERICA: Isn`t the center of religion love and acceptance?
FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: It is.
AMERICA: So it sounds like what you`re saying doesn`t sound like that.
PINSKY: I`m going to get you - I want to get you off the hot seat. You`ve been very kind. Thank you.
And this lady over here wanted to make a comment. Please.
FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: In regards to changing your appearance, everybody does it. You change your hairstyle, you change your hair color. Why can`t
you change what you look? If you want to look like a female, go right ahead. That`s your choice because that`s the way in your mind and in your
heart, that you appear in your mind - because that`s the way you are.
PINSKY: And I have learned - that`s fine. And, Zoey, I`ve come to learn there`s much more of a fluid issue. It`s not about body parts so much as
about what people are expressing about themselves as a male or female, yes?
TUR: Well, that`s the transgender argument. But transsexualism is a much different animal. It`s a brain anomaly. Gender dysphoria is a serious
brain anomaly. With respect to gender fluid issues, I can`t speak to that `cause I`m not gender fluid. I am - this is it. I`ve had sexual
reassignment surgery. This is my life.
PINSKY: Got it. Yes, ma`am?
FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hi, Dr. Drew. My name is Joana(ph). I just have a question why - when some women get breast implants, it`s considered sexy.
But these same people who find that sexy, find it mutilating and unnatural when another woman gets breast implants.
[21:30:04]
PINSKY: Or a man does it. Mike, (inaudible) answer that?
CATHERWOOD: Well, I`m going to - I feel like there is something in play here and even though I`m not a religious man, I can clearly understand the
idea of changing your gender is - it makes some people feel uncomfortable. What I truly don`t understand is the outward hatred for someone who just
found a way to live their life in a happier way. I don`t - I truly.
PINSKY: There is another layer that she brings up and I think, Zoey, you were talking about all that which is there is - there`s people who have
fetishized their bodies - which is a different thing entirely yet and people that do it to act out sexually and it`s a sexuality issue and that
some of the - that`s one of the reasons people have some of the issue with the glam that`s going on with the Caitlyn Jenner thing.
CATHERWOOD: Look, Drew.
PINSKY: Judy first.
CATHERWOOD: All right.
HO: Well, Dr. Drew, we`re uncomfortable with what we don`t know and we don`t understand and there`s a lot that we don`t understand here. And if
Bruce now Caitlyn wants to do it in this way and wants to glamorize herself because that is part of her process and that is authentic, that can be a
separate issue from the fact that there`s also an empire going on. They can be parallel issues (inaudible).
PINSKY: Lots of - lots of parallel and overlapping issues. I agree. Mike?
CATHERWOOD: As far as - as far as addressing Caitlyn Jenner and the former name of Bruce and things like that, you may not agree with my lifestyle
because I can`t drink alcohol or use drugs. You want to use drugs and drink alcohol in front of me, that`s fine. That`s your choice. But it`s
just downright insulting and hateful to consistently offer me drinking - drugs and alcohol knowing I am who I am. I feel like it`s the same thing
to consistently demand that we refer to her as Bruce.
PINSKY: Can we not all agree that we are so fortunate to live in a country that is free, where people don`t have their heads chopped of, people don`t
have to cover up, where things - we can have these open conversations and people are free to express themselves. I would caution everybody in one
area and that is if this - if these things frighten you, try not to attack. Try to look at the fears and where it`s coming from, what it`s about, is it
just unfamiliar? A lot of populations of humans have been the object of fear through human history and horrible things have been done that we now
deeply regret. Just think about that as you form your opinion.
Next up, the Duggars are speaking out about their son, his molestation admissions. You`ll hear what they`re saying. We`re back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:35:01]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (VOICEOVER): It`s been almost two weeks since "In Touch" magazine published these revelations about Josh Duggar.
"In Touch" magazine published a brand new document this morning - a police report with new information about what happened involving the Duggars many
years ago.
The Duggars are - must be thinking about how to keep some version of this show intact. "19 Kids and Counting" has been a goldmine for TLC but also
for the family.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (VOICEOVER): The challenges of traveling with a newborn makes you feel like you`re packing your entire house. You just
can`t walk out the door with one bag.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Time for "Celebrity Behavior" where we look at why the rich and famous do what they do.
We`re back with Erica, Judy, Mike.
And, Mike, we just heard about a new document detailing allegations against Josh Duggar. What do we know?
CATHERWOOD: Yes. It`s a - this is - this is not pretty. Because of the Freedom of Information Act, "In Touch" magazine was able to obtain a police
report saying that Josh Duggar confessed to his father three times, that actually includes an allegation he molested his five-year-old sister when
he was 15.
PINSKY: Repeatedly, right?
CATHERWOOD: Yes. His parents waited 16 months to tell any authorities and it also details him sneaking into his sisters` room and touching them
inappropriately on the breasts and in the vaginal area.
PINSKY: I read this report. He also got to a family friend`s daughter and I wondered, "Where were those parents? What are they thinking? Why aren`t
they speaking up about this?" They should be all over this, right? I mean, I hope they took their daughter immediately for help.
AMERICA: But did they know that the parents know - do we know that the parents knew?
PINSKY: I guess we don`t. And Duggar`s parents - without Josh - talked to Fox News and talked about what it was like when he confessed to them. I`m
sure it was terribly painful. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHELLE DUGGAR: There was so much grief in our hearts. I think as parents, we felt, "We`re failures". Here we tried to raise our kids to do
what`s right, to know what`s right, and yet, one of our children made really bad choices. And I think as a parent, we were just - we were
devastated.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: This is not about bad choices. The three of us know health - people who work in mental health. It just - it just sounds bizarre when
people call that a choice. It`s like somebody`s who`s strung out on heroin. "He made a bad choice today. He still is on heroin."
Josh - his father talked about the two other incidents where the girls were sleeping on the couch. Listen to this from Fox News. This just in.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIM BOB DUGGAR: There was another incident where - two different incidents where the girls were laying on the couch and it was a - and he had touched
like over the couch and actually touched their breasts while they were asleep. And so - over their clothes. We`ve talked to other parents and
different ones since then. A lot of families have said that they`ve had similar things happen in their families.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: And we should identify those families immediately and get them the help. You don`t talk about these things. Also on Fox News, the Duggars
then discussed how they handled - get ready for this one - I`ve heard only - I got a little wind of what I think we`re about to see - how they handled
Josh after his confessions. Here you are.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIM BOB DUGGAR: At first, we tried to deal with this in-house as parents. We were in shock and we were trying to figure out what was the next step
and we put all kinds of punishments on him. We watched him all the time. I took him to work with me and he just - I mean, we just poured our life
into him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: My understanding, guys, is that they like locked the bedrooms of the girls and he was still able to get through and fight his way in. I
mean, this is not how you handle this.
AMERICA: It sounds like - very nice people but denial and a very insulated family and an insulated community where they`re kind of like they just want
to keep everything - "Oh, this might happen in our community but let`s not do anything."
CATHERWOOD: I`m not sure they`re very nice people.
AMERICA: I`m don`t know about that.
CATHERWOOD: I`m not sure.
AMERICA: I`m just saying - but I - it seems as though they`re saying that they do care about - I think they do care about the children.
[21:40:03]
PINSKY: Well, hold on. I think the mom was clear there.
CATHERWOOD: The problems started when you start celebrating people sheerly because they pumped out 19 kids. And the fact that they were made to be -
the fact that they were made to be secular heroes and going on these morally-based evangelical speaking tours, now is the fact that they should
be brought down by these really truly moral - moralist Christians all over the world should be saying, "Well, we need to divorce ourselves from
anything that has to do with the Duggar family" because this is - it`s so grotesque. Sexual abuse happens all over the world and it`s an unfortunate
part of the human experience. But to cover it up, this is a - clearly, an orchestrated act of not only the family but the law enforcement in the town
and the - and the local government. It`s absolutely.
PINSKY: Yes. To (inaudible) the access and the justice being delivered, Judy, that`s what happened here.
HO: That`s right. And, Dr. Drew, what do the victims in this family think? And how do they conceptualize this when their parents are actually
standing up for the person who was the perpetrator?
PINSKY: Hang on. Do you have - do we have the Jessica Duggar comment or do I - should I read what I have here in my hand?
OK. It`s from Jessica Duggar. She says, "I was one of the victims." OK. "I don`t - I do want to speak up in his defense", meaning Josh. She says,
"The people are calling him a child molester, a rapist. Some people are saying. I`m like, that`s so overboard. It`s a lie, really. I mean, people
get mad at me for saying that but I can say this because I was one of the victims." So what you have is a victim identifying with the perpetrator.
HO: And this is very common, Dr. Drew. A lot of family members who are perpetrated by other family members experience what`s called "child sexual
accommodation syndrome" and one of the things that they experience is accommodation and entrapment. They realize they can`t get out of that
situation. The only way they can get power and control back is to actually make it fit into their framework.
PINSKY: It`s about them.
HO: "I still love this person. They still love me. And I (inaudible)."
PINSKY: "God`s in control. God`s got it. I did something to make this happen."
HO: "I might have done."
PINSKY: "I shouldn`t have worn that pajama bottom."
HO: "I shouldn`t have worn that cute pajama bottom because that encouraged my brother."
AMERICA: It was a Hello Kitty.
HO: "-to look at me that way."
PINSKY: It`s unbelievable. Yes, ma`am?
FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Dr. Drew, I may have an unpopular opinion but it is his child. I mean, I don`t know if every parent would turn their child
in. Do you think people really would turn their children in?
PINSKY: It`s not about turning him in necessarily as much as getting him to professional help. It`s up to the professional then whether it`s
something that meets criteria for the needing to get involved with the social services and the justice system, things like that. I think the
justice system may not have been involved if the - and social services got their hands on it. It happens all the time.
HO: That`s right. That`s the first line. If the social services can get to this family and provide them with the care that they need, there`s no
reason for the justice department to get involved.
PINSKY: The news - now Fox has the Duggars explain how they find out and then what they did. This may be the part where they`re talking about
locking the kids in. Let`s see. Let`s see what this is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIM BOB DUGGAR: He said he was just curious about girls and he had gone in and just basically touched them over their clothes while they were
sleeping. They didn`t even know he had done it. And so, we went and the first thing was to protect the girls. We - first off, of course, we really
talked to him and then we went and talked to all the girls and children.
MICHELLE DUGGAR: It was so important for us as parents to talk to our girls and make sure that nothing else had happened.
INTERVIEWER: So what did they say?
MICHELE DUGGAR: Well, one by one, as we talked with them, none of them were aware of Josh`s wrongdoing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I`m going to be really furious with Megyn Kelly if she doesn`t next ask, "Why didn`t you get them help? Why don`t you get them help?
Don`t you think these kids were traumatized and they deserved care? Why did you (inaudible)?" It`s not a - these are not targeting questions.
They`re simple questions. "Why didn`t you get your family the care they need? Something horrific is wrong here and it continues to be wrong."
Mike, (inaudible) here?
CATHERWOOD: You`re right, Dr. Drew. But they did give Josh Duggar a stern talking to from a guy who has a half a century of jail time for child porn.
PINSKY: Exactly. This stern talking to, buddy, that`s all we need to do with perpetrators. Now, my job is going to be so much easier now. I`m
just going to give them a couple of prayers and a stern talking to and watch them more carefully, take them to work with me, we will be fine. No.
These people need help and a lot of it - the victims and the perpetrator.
Next, we`ve got a Quick Fix up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:45:01]
PINSKY: It is time for "Click Fix", where my guests tell me what is trending on their Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter feeds. Mike, first up.
CATHERWOOD: Well, last week, I told you about DUI bikini granny. Never heard for you. Well, this week, she has some competition from DUI whipped
cream girl.
PINSKY: What the.? That`s last week`s.
CATHERWOOD: Yes. That`s the bikini granny. This is a 28-year-old woman in Tennessee. She was arrested for DUI and police found 13 empty cans of
whipped cream scattered in her SUV.
PINSKY: So that`s - she`s.
CATHERWOOD: She was doing whip-its.
PINSKY: Whip-its. Yes.
CATHERWOOD: Right. And arresting officers say she was disoriented after her car crashed into a mailbox and they believe she was high on the gases.
Doesn`t she know about filling up balloons with a - with whip-it cartridges. I mean, come on, we`ve moved on since the whipping canisters.
This is a little bit of (inaudible).
PINSKY: (inaudible) maybe in the car, she wanted to seem kind of (inaudible).
CATHERWOOD: That`s - I mean, that`s commitment. 13 empty cans as you`re driving along. I mean, wow.
PINSKY: I don`t want to instruct anybody what that all means.
Judy, what do you - what have you got?
HO: OK. Well, you`re never going to look at a beer mug the same way again because a man in China was trying to ease constipation.
PINSKY: No.
HO: --so what he did was to take a beer mug.
PINSKY: That big?
HO: --about three inches in diameter, just like this one, and inserted it into his rectum and obviously, it caused a lot of pain. He went to the
hospital - we have the x-ray. Look, there it is. And so he went under surgery but the first surgeon actually couldn`t get it out so they chipped
the glass into his body as they were working on it. He was promptly then transferred to a second hospital where three surgeons working with a metal
device were able to finally extract it out somewhat safely.
[21:50:03]
PINSKY: Did they have to resect any colon, any rectum? I mean, they were chipping stuff in the rectum, they had to.
HO: They had to repair. yes.
PINSKY: --(inaudible). That lower area`s a difficult blood supply, right?
HO: Yes. So cheers, everyone.
PINSKY: Wow. Cheers. Thank you. Thank you.
Erica?
CATHERWOOD: Wow!
PINSKY: Wow! But listen, if you ever worked an emergency room, you see stuff like that. Go, Erica.
AMERICA: I don`t know if I can follow that one up but OK. A very small private school in Minneapolis has outraged parents across the country
because basically, the K through 12 schools took students on a field trip to an adult toy store - OK - without getting consent from parents. So they
just did it on their own.
PINSKY: Smitten Kitten? That`s what it`s called?
AMERICA: (inaudible) not - it`s called "Smitten Kitten" and not only did the children tour the sex toy - tour the sex toy store but they were able
to purchase sexual products and bring it home to their family.
PINSKY: Was it like a (inaudible) class?
AMERICA: It`s a very special school - the school is very like the - they like to learn together in fun and freedom. That`s their code of the
school. So it`s kind of like a hippie school.
PINSKY: They`ve taken that to an extreme but (inaudible).
AMERICA: But do you - do you - would you pull your kids out if you found out they went to a sex store?
PINSKY: Well, if I had consented to it, no. There has to be really an academic reason like the.
AMERICA: Well, there was - it was part of a month-long.
CATHERWOOD: It`s like a (inaudible).
PINSKY: Stop it. Stop it. Stop it. No.
AMERICA: --it was part of a month-long sex education class. So they were teaching them something.
PINSKY: No, no. It would have to be something more. No, no, no.
Thank you, guys. As always, I`m disturbed. We`ll be back right after this with more questions, more views (inaudible).
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:55:01]
PINSKY: Time now for "Dr. Drew`s Qs". It is your chance to ask me a question on any topic. You can tweet me your questions at @DrDrewHLN. Use
the hashtag: #DrDrewsQs.
Let`s start with Tara on Twitter, wants to know how extremely low vitamin D affects brain function.
There`s been a lot of research lately connecting even moderately low vitamin D levels with cognitive impairment, trouble with our thinking,
trouble with our intellectual functioning. So it is - vitamin D is one of these vitamins that - as research has gone along - it looks even better and
better. There`s - for instance - people that have metastatic prostates or have prostate cancer. If they`re in the upper quartile of circulating
vitamin D levels in their blood, they`re less likely to get metastatic disease.
There`s a lot of good stuff of vitamin D so be sure to talk to your doctor about that and don`t become deficient.
Audience. Yes, ma`am?
FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hi, Dr. Drew. I`m Kimberly Comar(ph) and I`m going to embarrass my kids here for a minute `cause they watch your show as
well. My husband was watching the other day your show and he heard that having an orgasm every day is something that he needs to do because.
PINSKY: I don`t know - I know that came from me. Are you sure Mike didn`t say something like that?
FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: No, it was on - it was on a ticker. Somebody was saying it. Anyway, so he told me that and I said that`s fine but you`re
going to need to learn how to be able to have quickies more. Do you have any suggestion for that?
PINSKY: Well, good for you. Good for you for accommodating him if he`s so interested in that.
FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I`m happy to do it but we have six kids and we`ve got a life. We`ve got to make this happen.
PINSKY: I think that`s - every man`s biology - that way`s a little bit different so he`s got to sort of master it. I think you`re - like, if
you`re going to do this, this is how it`s going to go and it`s up to him to accommodate it, OK? You`ve made your accommodation which is you`re going
to try to do it. Give and take. Good for you.
FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: All right.
PINSKY: Well, lucky man.
Sugarbell on Twitter wants to know if I see a therapist. Me. If I see a therapist - if so, how often?
I saw a therapist for years. I started - my son had a brain tumor when he was one and my anxiety disorder took off. I have (inaudible) anxiety
disorder, I had depression at one time, I have panic attacks. I have all kinds of good stuff like most people do and I went to a therapist for 11
years and at one point, I was going twice a week and it really became one of the most important things I ever did both in terms of what I could do
for patients, what I could do for my family. That`s why I`m such an advocate. I mean, you really - if you set yourself up with somebody really
as skilled and appropriate - giving you appropriate therapy for your situation, it can be - it can be life-changing. And I like to share that
with others. So that`s (inaudible).
Yes, ma`am.
FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hi. My name is Jennifer. This is kind of weird but my friend thinks she has.
PINSKY: As opposed to the last question? Go ahead.
FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: My friend thinks she has a cold sore on her eye. Is that possible and if so, what are the other places that it`s possible
other than.?
PINSKY: OK. You`re asking me a very complicated - so she has some sort of growth on her eye that (inaudible).
FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Like on the corner of her eyes.
PINSKY: I understand. That needs to be checked out by a doctor. But you can get herpes in the eyes. It`s called "herpes keratitis" and it`s
actually problematic. You can get shingles in the eye and you can get herpes simplex in the eye and it can be blinding. It would be very
dangerous. You can get herpes almost anywhere. It just penetrates more easily in mucus services and eye and thin skin. That`s where it gets
through more easily. In the eyes and someplace, it can really do some damage and become chronic so have her looked at.
FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: OK. Thank you so much.
PINSKY: On Twitter, Crowley asks how to battle a food addiction, hashtag #550lbs. That is outside of my pay grade so I brought in Judy Ho. Judy,
thank you so much. 550 pounds. He believes he`s a food addict. What do we do with him?
HO: Well, a food addict - this is actually a really important issue because now, we have binge eating disorder which is a diagnosis that we
actually treat.
PINSKY: You think that`s like that - if somebody`s that obese, that`s probably what we`re dealing with?
HO: Very likely. And there`s a neural - neurobiological basis for a lot of that. And so, there`s a couple of things that a person can do. They
should go to cognitive behavior therapy to actually learn ways to kind of unwire their triggers.
PINSKY: Do they have to see an eating disorder specialist?
HO: I think it`s important to see the eating disorder specialist.
PINSKY: OK. So see somebody who`s got real training on this. CBT`s one of the big interventions.
HO: It is one of them.
PINSKY: People are going to ask about surgery and pharmacology. I`m lukewarm (inaudible).
HO: Me too. Try to - try the CBT first and then, obviously, go ahead and consult with a medical professional.
PINSKY: And therefore, you see a dietician. For sure, a dietician.
HO: See the dietician and work on the underlying issues. There`s always underlying issues.
PINSKY: Has a lot of trauma sometimes under this stuff. A lot of trauma, yes?
HO: That`s right. It`s a way that they`re coping.
PINSKY: Thank you very much. People eat their emotions - emotional eating.
I have to go now. Thank you all for joining us tonight. It`s been a real interesting program. I (inaudible) participating. Sorry I couldn`t get
you over there. DVR us anytime. Thank you all for watching.
END
