Return to Transcripts main page


Floods Threaten Paris Museums; War Of Words Escalates Between Clinton, Trump; Thousands Trapped As Battle Of Fallujah Rages; Ten Refugees Head To The Rio Olympics; FIFA: Blatter, Valcke And Kattner Got $80 million; Only 38,000 Jobs Created In The U.S. In May. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired June 3, 2015 - 15:00   ET




[15:00:54] HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Hala Gorani. We are live at CNN London and this is THE WORLD RIGHT NOW.

Museums in Paris are racing to save their masterpieces from floodwaters. This is the wettest May that France has experienced in more than 100 years.

Take a look at some of this dramatic video from all across the country. The rising water is even forcing some Parisians to flee to the suburbs of

the capital.

Erin McLaughlin is in the French capital now and she reports from inside the Louvre Museum.


ERIN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This water's alarmingly close to some of the world's most treasured arts. It is even coming up

through the city's sewers. French authorities say they are taking no chances.

AUDREY AZOULAY, FRENCH CULTURE MINISTER (through translator): The artwork in the Louvre is not in danger for now, but we have to mobilize many

members to move art from the museum's basement. The plan is working out well.

MCLAUGHLIN: The museum is closed to visitors until the water subsides. It is rare to see it empty. Not a single tourist in sight.

(on camera): A major operation is under way, 150,000 artifacts and pieces of art are being removed from the Louvre's basements and they're being

brought up here. Here you can see, crate after crate full of ancient pieces of art.

Over this way you see some Italian vases. These are from 7th Century B.C. Each item has been carefully catalog so that nothing is lost.

(voice-over): Ancient art from Italy, Greece and the Islamic world. The last time they staged this kind of evacuation it was 1939, just before

World War II. So far officials say there's been no water damage and in case you're wondering, the Mona Lisa is just fine.

Those who live along the River Seine say it's the worst they've seen in decades. The rising waters in dune no less a shock.

MORT FOSENBLUM, PARIS RESIDENT: One night we are sitting here having wine, perfectly normal. Expecting little ducks to by in the morning calmly.

Next morning you wake up, it is like Noah's ark.

MCLAUGHLIN: South of Paris, the River Seine has been more punishing. The situation is desperate and the army has moved in to help. Entire towns are

completely under water. More than 20,000 people evacuated. Thousands more without power.

MANUEL VALLS, FRENCH PRIME MINISTER (through translator): Our teams are mobilized to tackle the situation, which I have to say could last,


MCLAUGHLIN: Forecasters say the River Seine could stay at these levels through the weekend. Many here worry about the possibility the waters

could just keep rising.


GORANI: All right, well, Erin joins us now from just outside the Louver Museum in Paris and the courtyard there in front of the pyramid. So just

warning our U.S. viewers, we are going to metric on your rate here. Erin, what are the water levels right now in Paris?

MCLAUGHLIN: Well, Hala, right now, the water levels are some six meters above where the River Seine is normally. That's translated into, as you

saw, severe flooding in the Paris region. At least two people have been killed as a result of that flooding.

Here in the capital, we're seeing light to moderate flooding, particularly within the 16th District. Estimates put the damage at some 600 million

euros so far.

That's money really that France can ill-afford -- especially when you consider there is an ongoing union strike particularly hitting the

transportation sector very hard throughout this country.

And then next week, there is the beginning, of course, of Euro 2016, the European football championships.

GORANI: And a lot of people are comparing this to 1910. That's when there was just an absolutely huge flood situation in Paris. Is it anywhere close

to that?

[15:05:02]MCLAUGHLIN: Well, this is the highest level we've seen the River Seine in decades. But you're right, there is still a ways off from that

flooding we saw in 1910. Levels there, some 8.6 meters above where the river was normally.

The city of Paris was absolutely flooded. In fact, it looked more like the city of Venice. But people really learned valuable lessons from that time.

There have been emergency plans in place throughout the capital like the ones we saw here at the Louvre today.

GORANI: All right, Erin McLaughlin, thanks very much. Live in Paris. We'll be following those water levels of the Seine in France. Thank you.

Now to the race for the White House. Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump both hitting the campaign trail in California today after a dramatic escalation

in their war of words.

The Democratic frontrunner just attended a rally in Culver City. She is on the war path against Trump, repeating accusations that he is unfit to be

president after a big foreign policy speech yesterday.

Now she gave that scathing critique of Trump's foreign policy, but also his temperament in California, using some of his own words against him. Listen

to what she said about that speech just minutes ago.


HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDAT: Yesterday in San Diego, I had the opportunity to -- to just repeat what Donald Trump has said. I didn't

make any of that up. I mean, it would be hard to make up.

And by the end of working on that speech, even I was saying, did he really say all of this? Well, indeed he did. And I believe absolutely that he's

not only unprepared to be president, he is temperamentally unfit to be president.


GORANI: Arty, we are seeing an outline there perhaps of Hillary Clinton's strategy against Trump. Now as for Trump, he is due to speak in Redding,

California about an hour from now. Police there are hoping to r prevent a repeat of this. Take a look.


GORANI: Protests at a Trump rally in San Jose yesterday turned violent. Fist fights broke out after some anti-Trump demonstrators threw punches and

eggs at Trump supporters. Police made several arrests.

Let's bring in our CNN contributor, Ryan Lizza. He is the Washington correspondent for "The New Yorker." Thanks very much, Ryan, for being with


First of all, let's talk a little bit about this big foreign policy speech. We saw Hillary Clinton there bring up several themes several times, more

than once.

First of all, she wants to sort of go against the Trump message that America is weak and saying America is strong. But also using Trump's own

words against him on foreign policy, trying to highlight there some of the contradictions and incoherent messages, she calls it. Is it going to work?

RYAN LIZZA, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, it is a great question. Because Mitt Romney gave a very similar speech during the primaries to point out,

frankly, many of the same policy pi inconsistencies and extreme policies that Hillary Clinton noted yesterday.

It obviously did not work with Republican voters. I think you have to remember that the Republican primary electorate was only 10 percent of the

general electorate, and Trump only won 5 percent of that. So we have to keep in perspective what Trump has actually won.

But obviously Clinton thinks that foreign policy and national security is now one of her great strengths and she -- it is the first big speech of the

general election and she's doing it on this issue. So they clearly believe it is a major advantage for her.

GORANI: Well, as far as Donald Trump, he hit back, of course, everyone expected him to, first on Twitter saying she's reading off of a prompter,

then again calling her Crooked Hillary, and then denying he's said some of the things that he has said over the past several months of campaigning.

What should we make of his response?

LIZZA: I think that he still is playing the way he played in the primaries. I don't -- look, we don't want to underestimate a candidate

like Trump, but it does seem to me that he's going to have to actually formulate a substantive response to such a comprehensive take-down of his

foreign policy views.

He really wasn't forced to do that in the primaries for all sorts of reasons that primaries really are different. But if he's going to gain the

trust of the American people when it comes to his ability to be commander- in-chief, he's actually going to have to put down some policies, respond, point by point to what Clinton is saying. I don't think Twitter is going

to be enough.

[15:10:07]GORANI: But he's never done that. That's never been his strength. I mean, essentially he's kind of like -- you know, he's the kind

of stage performer, he'll say things without substance necessarily, but because he knows it has a certain effect with his supporters.

What about Hillary Clinton? Who is she trying to woo here with the foreign policy speech such as the one she delivered in San Diego?

LIZZA: Well, I think one audience is just an elite Republicans who, frankly, they've gotten very quiet. But they have severe reservations

about Donald Trump's national security credibility.

People like John McCain and Lindsey Graham and pundits like Bill Kristol and other opinion leaders have basically agree more with Hillary Clinton

than Donald Trump, frankly, on a lot of the big foreign policy issues.

Some of that criticism has been muted as the Republican Party has coalesced around Trump. So I think one audience was just foreign policy elites who I

think Clinton knows in their hearts agree with her.

The other audience is just the very few undecided voters in this country that will decide the election and who will have to decide whether Donald --

even in a changed election. Maybe they are sick of having a Democrat in the White House after eight years.

They don't want to place a bet on Trump. I think that's the message we're going to hear across all the issues from Hillary Clinton. He's too risky.

GORANI: We'll see if that's an effective strategy. Ryan Lizza in Washington, thanks very much. Appreciate it. Have a great weekend.

It is a big day in U.S. politics right here on CNN. You don't want to go anywhere. The national press secretary for the Sanders campaign will join

me live in about 20 minutes.

And then next hour, our Jake Tapper will speak to both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. You'll hear some of those interviews as well in the hour

following this one.

Now to the Middle East, Iraq's military says air strikes have killed dozens of ISIS militants in Falluja. It is possible that a top commander is among

them. Intelligence sources say Iraqi Army Forces surrounded the city are ready to move in.

However, they have a big dilemma here. There are tens of thousands of civilians trapped and the U.N. says they are being used as human shields.

CNN's Ben Wedeman is in Baghdad, Iraq, and he joins me now with more.

What is right now the status of these Iraqi Security Forces surrounding Falluja with the help of Iranian-backed militia? How close are they to

going in?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, they're very close to the edges of the city, Hala, in some cases, some areas just a few

hundred meters from the very edge of the city. But they're not going in yet.

The worry, of course, is the well-being of up to 50,000 civilians still stuck inside the city. Now today we spoke to a representative of UNICEF

who said that over the last five days, about an average of 900 people a day have been able to leave the outskirts of Falluja.

As far as people in the middle of the city, they're stuck. It is believed they're being used as human shields. For those leaving, they are leaving

any way they can.


WEDEMAN (voice-over): A bed frame and inner tubes it floated it across the Euphrates River. The only escape for hundreds of civilians fleeing

Falluja. On the distant shore, more wait, desperate to make the crossing.

Those who have made it have fled a battle raging now for almost two weeks where tens of thousands remain trapped in a city now completely surrounded

by Iraqi forces. But escape isn't the end of their troubles.

Men are separated from the women and children and interrogated by Iraqi intelligence. On alert for ISIS fighters or sympathizers who may have

blended in with the civilians.

Iraqi forces continue to probe Falluja's perimeters, but have yet to enter the city proper. ISIS has dug a complex network of tunnels, bunkers and

trenches around the city. The first seized by ISIS two and a half years ago.

The fighting has been intense, resistance stiff. But this member of the Shia-led popular mobilization unit is confident of the outcome vowing --

"they will go to hell. Theirs will be a miserable fate."

U.S.-led coalition aircraft and drones are taking part in the battle. The British Defense Ministry releasing video of what it says is a drone strike

on an ISIS pick-up loaded with weapons and ammunition.

(on camera): Friday Iraqi intelligence officious say another coalition aircraft struck an ISIS command center in Southeast Falluja killing dozens

of fighters and possibly, they say, the senior commander in the city.

[15:15:02](voice-over): Iraqi officials predict victory is near. But it's not clear how near. "I can't say the terrain is difficult," says this

commander with the anti-terrorism squad, "but God willing within a few days we will reach the city's center."

Still ahead is a grueling house to house battle in the city itself with tens of thousands of civilians possibly being used by is as human shields

caught in the middle.


WEDEMAN: And we understand that there are some members of ISIS or sympathizers who are trying to flee, and there are reports that in a town

about 10 kilometers northwest of Falluja, one of them blew himself up killing several refugees as well as Iraqi Security Forces -- Hala.

GORANI: All right, thanks very much, Ben Wedeman is in Baghdad.

Up next, a journey from war-torn nations to hopefully sporting glory. We look to the refugees becoming Olympians -- next.


GORANI: It is a world first. The Olympic Committee has named ten refugees as part of an official refugee team for the Rio de Janeiro games. Ranging

from South Sudan to the Congo to Syria, the selection is made up of six runners, two judo wrestlers, and two swimmers.

They will all take part in the summer games using the Olympic flag and anthem. Not representing of course their countries of origin in this case.

One of the swimmers is Yusra Mardini, a Syrian refugee who spoke to our own Atika Shubert as she tried to qualify for the games.


ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Yusra Mardina was a teenager in Damascus who loved to swim. In 2015, she and her

family decided to flee for Germany crossing from Turkey to Greece by boat. Half-way there the engine broke.

YUSRA MARDINI, SYRIAN SWIMMER: After a few minutes the motor stuck. Yes. After that everyone was freaked out, my daughter, my daughter. Everyone

was praying.

SHUBERT: Yusra, her sister, and a friend jumped into the water and pushed the boat ashore.

MARDINI: The salt was in my eyes and I lost my eyeglasses, it's like minus 2 and minus 2 here and then my sister stayed there until we arrived. Yes.

And it took us like three hours in the water.

SHUBERT (on camera): And then after that, you still had the journey to go all the way from Greece to Germany.

MARDINI: Greece. Macedonia. Turkey. Hungary. Vienna.

SHUBERT: How long did it take you to get to Germany?

MARDINI: It's 29 days.

SHUBERT (voice-over): For Yusra, swimming is not a game. It's her life. Atika Shubert, CNN, Berlin.


GORANI: So Yusra Mardini is one of the 10 refugee competitors. Let's bring in Shasta Darlington, who's spoken with one of the other shoe to make

the team and she joins us now from Rio de Janeiro.

[15:20:10]So how were they chosen? Did they have qualifiers? How did this he get to compose this team of final ten then, Shasta?

SHASTA DARLINGTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Hala, the work was really done behind the scenes. I think some had certain advantages. In the case of

two judo wrestlers here in Brazil, they had a leg up, if you will, because they were actually judo wrestlers back in the Democratic Republic of Congo

where they started.

They have pretty tragic stories. They were separated from their families during the war. In their refugee centers in Congo they became judo

wrestlers so by the time they came to Brazil for a competition and decided to seek asylum here they were already athletes. I think they're real

examples of how refugees can turn their lives around.

GORANI: All right. So you had an opportunity to speak with some of them. What are their real chances here? Is this considered some sort of symbolic

move or are they going to be real competitive athletes in this case?

DARLINGTON: Listen, Hala, you know, a lot of people kept on asking the two judo wrestlers this question, is this for real, do you really think you can

win a medal? They said we're not in this to play games. Of course, we are in this to win.

On the other hand, just making it this far already sends a message to all of the refugees out there that their lives don't have to end with the war

around the conflict and the strife, that they can do something with their lives and that sport can be a real catalyst to help turn their lives


It was interesting though, they also said that it was something that made them feel like a part of a community not only the Olympic refugee team, but

more part of the community here in Brazil.

They've gotten so much support from Brazilian judo wrestlers and from coaches and they're really coming out of this with an incredibly positive

mentality. They say that if they do win a medal, it will be as much for Brazil as it will be for refugees -- Hala.

GORANI: All right, Shasta Darlington in Rio, thanks very much. I think a lot of people are going to be rooting for these athletes.

Now we're hearing more shocking details about the alleged activities of former executives at FIFA. An internal probe says former president, Seth

Blatter, (ph), and others attempted to enrich themselves to the tune of $80 million over five years.

Let's go to CNN center, Don Riddell is there with that. All right, how did they come to this number then, Don?

DON RIDDELL, CNN WORLD SPORT: So Hala, FIFA has been desperately trying to work with the authorities ever since this whole corruption scandal broke.

They appointed a U.S. law firm, Quinn-Emanuel (ph), to help them essentially navigate these tricky waters.

It is the research that this group has done with FIFA, which has led to this day. It was FIFA that made this statement today that the three men in

question, the former president, Seth Blatter (ph), the former secretary- general (inaudible) and the ex-finance director, Marcus Kattner (ph), who's actually fired just last week.

The three men over a period of five years had managed to gain access to some $80 million between them. This money was essentially money that they

apparently just got into HR and essentially asked for.

It was in relation to pay raises and world cup bonuses. But the crux of all of this is that FIFA is now saying that this could be a breach of Swiss

law and so this information has now been passed on to the Swiss authorities and also the U.S. Justice Department, which has been looking into FIFA for

some time now.

GORANI: OK, Don Riddell, thanks very much. We'll keep our eye on that.

Let's take a look at what's happening in the business world right now, the markets on Wall Street and the Dow Jones Industrial Average has leveled

out. It's pretty much flat right now. Down slightly.

Look at the other markets across the wider S&P and tech-heavy Nasdaq down 0.5 percent. The S&P down a fifth of a percent. So overall not a super

happy Friday.

Here's a look at European markets and it was a mix bag with DAX losing more than 1 percent. Similar performance for the Paris CAC 40, but the FTSE 100

managed to gain of about a third of 1 percent.

Now this was on a bad day for the U.S. economy because a kind of depressing number was issued today. The U.S. Labor Department delivered some less

than welcome news. A shockingly weak jobs report.

I'm joined now by CNN Money editor-at-large, Richard Quest of "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" for more. So the job creation number, much, much lower. Even

taking into account a -- 38,000. But even taking into account a strike by Verizon.

RICHARD QUEST, EDITOR-AT-LARGE, CNN MONEY: The consensus had been 110,000, upper end was 140,000. There is no doubt this was a very bad number. With

seemingly no immediate obvious reason, bad weather, the Verizon strike.

[15:25:08]But as I've been reading the analysts' views, nobody can really pin the tail on the donkey with this one. It was across the board delving

into (inaudible) areas. But what was also disappointing is the revisions on previous months. April, for example, those revisions were also down,

which brings the net gain to about 111,000 a month.

GORANI: And also the jobless rate went down to 4.7 percent, but that's because some people actually dropped out of --

QUEST: Well, well, that's a bit of an anomaly. That's the normal reason that people always say when the jobless rate down at 4.7 percent.

GORANI: Well, unless you have the big job creation.

QUEST: It is the way the surveys are calculated. That means you can get one going in one direction. One is the household survey, one is the

unemployment survey. They are done in two absolutely different ways. So we take the unemployment rate with a pinch of salt. It is this other

number that's more worrying.

GORANI: You still had kind of a drop out -- you could look at it in two different ways. One, that there is slightly more confidence that dropping

out now would mean you would reenter later. The other would mean --

QUEST: Stop no! Stop focusing on this idea. What is interesting it --

GORANI: It's one of the figures that the analysts are looking at.

QUEST: One of the more positive numbers that you skated over --

GORANI: That's my second bullet point!

QUEST: But you didn't mention it!

GORANI: I just was about to, Richard. You were contradicting me on the work force.

QUEST: Why does all this matter? Very simple. What does it mean for the fed when it meets next week?

GORANI: Exactly. Not going to happen in June.

QUEST: I think it is highly unlikely.

GORANI: Highly. July?

QUEST: Much more likely. Because they are still committed to the idea of rate rises to start taking this highly accommodative position off the


GORANI: Yes. All right, Richard Quest, we'll see you next hour on "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS." Thanks very much for breaking down these numbers with us.

All right, now to something very serious. Honestly, you really feel for the main player in this video. A dramatic scene that played out in an Ohio

courtroom when the judge allowed victims' family members to address this man, a serial killer, Michael Madison.

The father of one of the victims tells Madison, quote, "I know I'm supposed to forgive you." And then this happened.


GORANI: No one was hurt in this scuffle and charges against the father are unlikely. His daughter was one of three women raped, tortured and killed

by this defendant.

Michael Madison was sentenced to death by lethal injection. Many people watching the video today were saying, I wish they'd given him just a few

more seconds to land a couple punches.

Still to come, Hillary Clinton's battle with Donald Trump is dominating the headlines, but there are also some very important talks going on behind the

scenes about her Democratic rival. Much more on the race for the White House ahead.

And as the Brexit debate heats up, the British Prime Minister David Cameron faces tough questions in front of a live studio audience. We'll be right



[15:30:53] HALA GORANI, CNN ANCHOR: Well, here's a look at our top stories. Museums in Paris are struggling to evacuate priceless artwork as flood

waters rises in the French capital. The Louvre and Orsay have both temporarily closed their doors. The Seine burst its banks earlier this

week. Take a look at some of these images. Soldiers helped evacuate some residents trapped in suburbs around the


Also among the top stories we're following, the International Olympic Committee has revealed that 10 refugees will be heading to the Rio de

Janeiro games this summer.

The new Olympians come from countries like Ethiopia and Syria and they will compete in a range of sports including swimming and judo.

Football's governing body, FIFA says its former President Sepp Blatter and his two former deputies gave themselves $80 million in bonuses and raises.

Eighty million. The news came after a search of FIFA headquarters in Zurich by Swiss authorities. Statements from Blatter calls his payments proper and


Returning now to the U.S. presidential race, CNN had learned that some senior Democrats are plotting behind the scenes to try to convince Bernie

Sanders to throw in the towel.

They are hoping to give the Hillary Clinton a clear path to the nomination sooner rather than later.

CNN's Manu Raju has details about some private conversations in D.C. Tell us more about figure reporting on this Manu please.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITIAL REPORTER: The thing -- that's right Hala. Actually, the Democrats are very nervous at come mid-June when all voting

is done that Bernie Sanders will stay in the race as he's been threatening to do and continuous campaign until the July convention. They believed that

month between June and July will be a critical period to unite the party.

And one of the things that senior Democrats are trying to do is convince Bernie Sanders that he does not have a path to victory. That it's over for

him essentially what I'm hearing that a various things that they're hoping to discuss with him, if he does not decide to drop out and so.

One, it's overall how party as -- the party is actually selecting its nominees. Of course Bernie Sanders has been very critical in super

delegates, in the role that they have played in this process. Also giving Bernie Sanders a big role to speak at the Democratic National Convention in


In addition, getting rid of the head of the Democratic National Committee, someone who's been very -- who have been criticized heavily by Bernie

Sanders' supporters for not being fair to them. And perhaps even most significantly, pushing a running mate for Hillary Clinton who could attract

Bernie Sanders' supporters possibly Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts.

The Massachusetts Democrat progressive fire has been to senator, someone who is very close to the Bernie Sanders' wing of the party. Some Democrats

including Harry Reid the Senate Minority Leader, I am told is open to the idea of getting Elizabeth Warren on Hillary Clinton's ticket.

Those are some of things they are talking about but ultimately they hope that Bernie Sanders decides himself to bow out as early as next week when

California vote as big price next Tuesday. Hala.

GORANI: And what are your sources saying about what the response from Sanders has been?

RAJU: Well, he's been non-committal. Publicly, he's been saying that he's going to take this to the convention. He believes that he's going to win

California and that's going to reset the race. But of course the math is still stuck against him. And even if he were to win California, the votes

that -- he's not going to have enough delegates to overcome Hillary Clinton. The question, what he's going to do next?

He is assuring those Senate Democrats that he's not going to sort of be a destructive force heading into July. But what that means precisely is

unclear. So he is being non-committal, he's saying he's staying in the race and at this point, folks are just kind of waiting to see what he does next.

GORANI: All right Manu Raju, thanks very much. With the latest on his story from Washington, let's get some perspective from the Sanders' campaign

itself. We're joined by Symone Sanders, the National Press Secretary for Bernie 2016. Symone, thanks for being with us.

First of all, these reports that some top Democrats in Washington are trying to convince Bernie Sanders to drop out of the race sooner rather

than later by perhaps promising him a big speaking role at the Democratic National Convention or over on the role of super delegates. Is that

resonating at all with the campaign or will he go to the convention?

[15:35:05] SYMONE SANDERS, BERNIE SANDERS' NATIONAL PRESS SECRETARY: You know what? Senator Sanders has been very clear so let me reiterate in case

there's any questions. He is going all the way through to the convention.

Look, we are waiting a very competitive race not only in California but in other places across this country, that have nominating contests coming up

on June 7th. And we planned to compete in Washington D.C. We just sent an e-mail earlier today looking for volunteers and organizers and people

coming and hold a few grassroots events across the District of Columbia.

So Senator Sanders is on his way to .

GORANI: But that's dramatically there's no possibility -- I'm just going to say mathematically, there is no possibility that Bernie Sanders will reach

the number of delegates required in order for him to become the Democratic nominee. So at this state, is there no concern in the campaign that this is

taking away some of the steam from the Hillary Clinton campaign? And essentially, some of those supporters of Bernie Sanders saying it's either

Bernie or both will mean handing Donald Trump a victory in the general election.

SANDERS: Well, Hala so I agree with you. Mathematically, you're right. There is no way that Senator Sanders and now I would add either Secretary

Clinton will reach the magic number of delegates needed to clench the nomination with pledge delegates by June 14. The number is 2,383 and it

neither Secretary Clinton nor Senator Sanders will have those delegates.

So that means we're going to the convention. I mean super delegates are going to cast the deciding votes and super delegates do not cast their

votes until I think it's the Wednesday of convention this year. And they alike football Chris I like to say, it's not until they get right up to the

floor. It's not until they sign at the dotted line. They've actually cast their ballots do their votes' counts. So .

GORANI: But the expectation is they're going to go with Hillary Clinton. I mean what I'm asking you is .

SANDERS: Well, expectation Hala -- I was going to point out .

GORANI: . do not believe though that by going all the way to the campaign and having many Bernie Sanders's supporters even on CNN say, I will never

vote for Hillary Clinton. But this is essentially going to play a spoiler effect and hand Donald Trump a victory in November.

Is that not at all a concern in this Sanders' campaign?

SANDERS: Absolute not. And let me tell you why. Because Senator Sanders had been extremely clear that he is going to do everything he can to keep

Donald Trump from winning the White House come this November.

I and many of my colleagues that we agree, we believed that a Democrat is going to be the 45th president of the United States. And it's our hope that

is going to be Bernie Sanders.

But if Bernie Sanders is not the Democratic nominee, we're going to do everything we can to keep Donald Trump from the White House and campaign

right here on the issues. But the fact that the matter is, the reason Senator Sanders is still in this race, the reason we're in California right

now and we're competing at other states across the country and we will compete in Washington D.C is because we absolutely believe that in the

fundamental right of every single person in this country to be able to cast their ballot for whom -- for the candidate of their choice.

And that is why we're in it through till the end of all of these nominating contests and we're going to conventions. Senator Sanders has one will over

46 percent of the pledged delegates.

We can't ignore the fact that over 40 to 46 percent of the pledged delegates is really important numbers. So we're going to the convention,

we're going to influence the platform and while there, the path to the nomination -- time to the nomination is indeed much narrower maybe a month


There is still a path. And so, no, we don't think that we're damaging the eventual nominee's chances against Donald Trump in the fall. Because the

fact that as the matter is, if it's not Senator Sanders or Secretary Clinton, any -- Secretary Clinton any day is a better pick for president

than Donald Trump.

Donald Trump as, you know, is reckless .

GORANI: And Symone, you know .

SANDERS: . he's a disaster and they're not what America need.

GORANI: I want to ask you about one of the questions that emerged regarding Senator Sanders and his -- what he's willing to share with the voting

public namely, his tax returns. Now for a month, he asked Senator -- I should say Secretary Clinton to release the transcript of her speeches to

Wall Street or Donald Trump to release his tax returns. But he has not released his tax returns.

Now, that's been contentious in some cases and also controversial. When is that going to happen and why have they not been released?

SANDERS: Well, you know, Hala, I don't know, we kind of bedtime stories or things that people think they're going to find in Senator Sanders taxes but

it's pretty boring. And the Senator has noted that .

GORANI: I guess people just wanted, you know, .

SANDERS: . actually he Jane do their own taxes. And so, the moment that they get an opportunity to take a little time and file their taxes, they

will definitely do so.

But I do think that there's a difference between Senator Sanders' taxes and speeches, Wall Street speeches that Wall Street executives paid Secretary

Clinton hundreds and thousands of dollars to have when we're having a cover to speak. When we're having a conversation in this election about the

influence of big money and big interests. And Wall Street own not only the Democratic side but also the Republican side when getting big money out of

the politics is a headline, a very key, a key issue, Democratic those things. They want to comeback.

And you got one of the folks that say, they like to represent the party the nominee giving secret speeches if you will to Wall Street. But we don't

know what's in there. I think that that's a fair .

GORANI: I think it's not .

SANDERS: . question to ask for the transcript.

[15:40:08] GORANI: It's qualitatively different. Certainly this are different issues but it's also -- I think some people are saying that

double standard of requesting that one candidate release a certain number of documents and then not releasing things like tax returns which is pretty

standard for presidential candidate.

But let me ask you about some of this reports of the top Democrats would be willing to discuss what the Sanders campaign. A big speaking role at the

convention for instance over hauling the role of super delegates for the next time there is an election, dumping the head of the Democratic national

committee or any of this things that it could appeal the Senators Sanders in order to -- I don't know, nudge him to end his campaign a bit earlier or


SANDERS: Well, Senator Sanders isn't interested in ending his campaign or listening to the pundits or people in the political establishment that are

chattering about him getting out of this race or when he should get out. What Senator Sanders is interested in doing is again competing throughout

the duration of this nominating contest going to the convention, taking his delegates to the convention and having our fight right there.

Because again, we really believe that our message is a message that's speaks a hardworking American people across this country. You know, we have

garnered over 46 percent of the delegates in this race. The platform of the DNC is going to be a platform that we believe is representative of where

the Democratic Party is going and that is again, addressing economic and equality, criminal justice reform. You know, a party that it works for

working people and that's what (inaudible) is in this race to continue to last fight for.

GORANI: You have to hope that Hillary Clinton will use some of these themes that gave Senator Sanders campaign so much energy throughout. You have to

hope that some of them are going to make it to the platform and that's why that the fight was worth it.

SANDERS: Well, we're not even hoping. We know it will, you know, I don't if you saw the reports. But the platform committee, we have some really great

folks that are our campaign on that committee, people such as Bill McKibben, Representative Keith Ellison and good friend and mentor of mine

Dr. Cornel West among others.

And so, and so we de believe that the Democratic parties platform will be a platform that is representative of the issues that Senator Sanders has

fought for. But I want to reiterate that right now we're focused on winning California. We think we can win here and do extremely well and additional

nominating contest and the Dakota, Puerto Rico is coming up and of course New Jersey is on the same day Montana.

So, we are still in this fight. This is -- this nominating contest is not over. We are taking this fight all the way through to the convention and so

on. And so, if anyone out there is wondering as Senator Sanders is looking to get out this race on Tuesday or Wednesday. I can unequivocally help you

and tell you right now that no, we are in it and still in it to win it.

GORANI: Well that is crystal clear. Symone Sanders thanks very much, a big price in California for the 75 delegates on Tuesday. Thanks so much for

joining us on CNN, we always appreciate it Symone.

SANDERS: Thanks for having on.

GORANI: And a reminder, next hour Jake Cooper talks with Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton. It all begins with about 20 minutes from now only on CNN,

so stay in 17 minutes I should say.

Now, to the Brexit debate, it is heating up during interview on British T.V. yesterday. The Prime Minister of this country David Cameron was

repeatedly pressed about his position to keep it Britain in the European Union. As Nic Robertson reports the political stakes are incredibly high,

the prime minister.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And he made the promise. Again it is promise that cannot be fulfilled.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Under fire and under pressure.

DAVID CAMERON, PRIME MINISTER OF BRITAIN: I need you to accept that. I think he remains the right ambition for Britain.

ROBERTSON: Three weeks devoting, British Prime Minister David Cameron on his first Brexit live T.V. debate.

CAMERON: You see what you think, it can be fulfilled.

UNIDENTIFIED: Well, Wall Street stands in European Union. How can it be fulfilled?

CAMERON: Because there have been years and there will be again where people from Britain choose to go and works overseas and other European Countries.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How to happen any single year of your premonition.

CAMERON: It happens when I first said I have the ambition.

ROBERTSON: In a week, on is on cabinet ministers in the Leave campaign laid big leaks mandatory leader over his failure to curve immigration and other

that is of it's MPs accused him of lying to bit also Brexit vote. This prime time Q&A, a chance to fight back his biggest punch connecting with

economic fears of a Brexit.

CAMERON: If you don't have a strong economy, you can't have the health service that you want. You can't have the schools that you need, you can't

have the public services you want and this would be an active economic self-harm. of the United Kingdom doing it to our selves.

ROBERTSON: Moderator and audios questions as close to a face-to-face debate with Leave campaign opponents as Cameron has agreed to. But even so, got

question about them.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you still think that Boris Johnson would make a good Prime Minister.

ROBERTSON: Boris Johnson, the flamboyant former London man. A former university drinking buddy of Cameron's, favored to be the next prime

minister as the Brexit vote becomes a vote of confidence in Cameron's leadership that is dividing his conservative party.

[15:45:11] CAMERON: The question was, do I think Boris should be the next prime minister? I'm saying I'm not going to .

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah, even good one.

CAMERON: I have said he has been great major of London. He's got plenty of left fuel in the tank. And I let other people decide. And that's as far I'm

going to go.

ROBERTSONS: Among Cameron's conservative party calls for vote of no confidence and been growing to trigger such a vote 50 of his MPs would have

to on board.

Cameron is confident. He can win. However, and he said, "Bring it on." Reality is even a win would leave him wounded and vulnerable.

Johnson has pushed for the paths to go head to head live on T.V. But don't hold breath on that with the poll is closes they are and no knock out blow

this round. Cameron can't afford that kind of gamble.

Nic Robertsons, CNN, London.


GORANI: You saw David Cameron's speaking with the live studio audience. And right now, Michael Gove, a senior member of the Leave campaign as doing the

same thing. Here's what he said moments ago when asked whether foreign leaders supports his position.


MICHAEL GOVE, LEADER OF LEAVE CAMPAIGN, M.P.: We don't a vote in this referendum. The people in this audience, the people watch at home have a

vote. And my view is when you hear a foreign leaders, when you hear a politicians. Don't pay attention to what they say. Pay attention to what

they do. And the truth is that Barack Obama would never accept a court in Mexico to create what the law in the United States would be.


GORANI: All right, that's an argument we hear from the Leave campaign. That was Michael Gove, one of the leaders of that campaign. I'm continue to

follow this story and report on both sides. Of course going forward, this is the world right now.

Coming up, as thousands of refuges makes the careless journey across the Mediterranean. I speak to one veteran British politician and British Lord,

who force his government to change its child refugee policy. Single- handedly.

We'll be right back.


GORANI: Another day and another disturbing reminder of the dangerous thousands of migrant's face crossing the med. This video is taken in Libya

with more than hundred bodies were recovered from a beach, hundred people dead. They're believed to be from a capsized boat. The Red Crescent has

said the dead included 75 women, 36 man, 6 children.

Meanwhile, in a separate incident 300 people are missing after a boat capsized near Crete and more than 300 have been rescued.

The journey to Europe is dangerous for all refuges but especially children. In Britain one member of the House of Lords took on his government over its

policy child refuges and he force through new legislation. They found out that there's a compelling personal story behind this quest.


[15:50:03] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Lord Alf Dubs maybe in the twilight of his political career but that is not stopping him from taking on the British

government. And fighting for what he says is the right thing to do.

At 84, this lifelong politician now in the House of Lords pushed through a measure that now legally compiles the U.K. to take in thousands of refugee

kids who are in Europe without their parents.

ALFRED DUBS, BRITISH LABOUR POLITICIAN: I think young people drift in Europe, sleeping and having those wear. The work station and streets, being

lured into prostitution, into criminality. They are not safe and we owe them something. We owe them a duty that provides safety for them.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A duty that Dubs feels on a very personal level. As a 6-years-old a Nazi occupied prog. (ph). His life was saved by his screamed

called Kindertransport in which thousands of mainly Jewish children were sent to the U.K. from Germany, Austria and Tesco Slovakia.

DUBS: I was kind of lucky. If I hadn't been put on a Kindertransport, I died if I would survive the Holocaust. So to that extent I realize of

finding safety is absolutely crucial.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A few weeks ago Alf Dubs visited a migrant camp across the channel in Calais in France meeting some of the kids that could benefit

from the new measure. Refugees mainly from Syria, Iraq and other war ravage countries, pictures of human of despair, now a daily reality.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are absolutely flooded almost everyday with images of very vulnerable and disparate people who will do anything. We will just

swim practically across stretches of water. What goes to mind when you see those images?

DUBS: Well, I think it's a disparate situation. I mean, I feel miserably I'm happy that people should feel urge to find safety in this dangerous

wave because no options up to them.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And if that sympathy for vulnerable kids that lead to such a significant win for Lord Dubs. He add an amendment to an immigration

bill that effectively compelled the government to reverse its position on unaccompanied refugee children.

DUBS: What went through your mind on the day you achieved what was a political victory. Well, I was live to why these things that often

happened. I mean, immigration is a very sensitive issue. Refugee is a sensitive issue. And the governments are holding at pretty firmly. I was

delighted. I thought it was a victory for common sense and for humanitarian principle.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And do you think basically by doing this. Is it enough thought?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I mean, do you think that U.K. has put itself on the right side of history in your estimation?

DUBS: It's the gun to put itself on the right side obviously. No, it's not enough. But it's a step in the right direction. And there is many specific

limit in the legislation to how many each, unaccompanied child there where they should come. So we can press some to be more. At the time in 1938, '39

but its only country that took any. The other opinion your country said no. And even American said no, they wouldn't take these children.

So, Britain stood out and I've used that as argument with the British government now to say that we're establishing an important principle in

1938, '39 which would stick with that thing and do it again.


GORANI: Lord Alf Dub there on his effort to compel the British government to accept more unaccompanied Refugee kids. We'll be right back.


[15:55:05] GORANI: Nearly a week after he went missing a 7-year-old Japanese boy has been found astonishingly alive and well. Kristie Lu Stout

has the story.


KRISTIE LU STOUT, CCN CORRESPONDENT: Holding back his tears the overwhelmingly relief of a father who didn't know if he'd ever see his son


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm for gratitude for everybody involved in the search operation.

LU STOUT: 7-year-old Yamato Tanoka was found alive on Friday after being missing in the mountains of Hokkaido in Japan for a week. He's father

relief compounded by his remorse for leaving his son alone for a short-time as punishment for throwing rocks to the cars, a tactic that backfired when

they returned to find he was gone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (Through Translation): I never thought the situation would end like this. I deeply regret my actions which were too extreme.

LU STOUT: The boy was airlifted to a hospital early on Friday after being discovered in the building on a military base for Japans self-defense


UNIDENTIFIED MALE (Through Translation): One of soldier was preparing for drills this morning and unlock the door of a building on the base. And

there he was, when he asked, "Are you Yamato? The boy said, yes.

LU STOUT: The boy had walked a few miles to the base on Saturday the day he disappeared and found an unlock hunt. The soldier said he had slept between

two mattresses to keep warm and drink water from a tap outside, but did not appear to have anything to eat.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (Through Translation): Because the boy said he was hungry. The soldier gave him some sort of bread or rice bowl and the boy

ate it.

LU STOUT: But despite the lack of food. The doctor who examined him says he is in good condition, only suffering from slight dehydration and

malnutrition. The boy was reunited with his family in the hospital where his father said he apologized and his son noted in response. He's father

now says, he want to make amends for what happened.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (Through Translation): I have been raising him of lots of love. And from now on we'll pour a lot more love over him. I will watch him

growth up.

LU STOUT: Kristie Lu Stout, CNN.


GORANI: All right the boy tough the parents a lesson. Not the other way around. This has been the world right. Thanks for watching. I'm Hala

Gorani. The Lead with Jake Tapper is next.