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Manhunt Intensifies for Escaped Convicts; Ohio Law Allows Citizens to Go Directly to Judge; U.S. Intelligence Underestimating Role of ISIS Women?; Evaluating the U.S. Strategy in Iraq; Texas Subdivision Divided Over Pool Party Incident. Aired 9-9:30a ET
Aired June 09, 2015 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:00:01] PEREIRA: And I think it's fantastic.
CAMEROTA: That's great. She can do it.
PEREIRA: She can.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: She can be an evil character.
(LAUGHTER)
CUOMO: Why not?
CAMEROTA: Why not?
PEREIRA: That's great.
CAMEROTA: All right. Time now for "NEWSROOM" Carol Costello.
Hey, Carol.
CUOMO: Also known as Superman.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: The same thing. Darth Vader?
PEREIRA: But I mean, that's still great that she wanted to because it's, you know, anyway.
CAMEROTA: It is.
COSTELLO: It is, Michaela.
(CROSSTALK)
COSTELLO: Have a great day. NEWSROOM starts now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO: Happening now in the NEWSROOM, a three-country manhunt for two convicted killers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't cut through a steel wall without somebody hearing it.
COSTELLO: A female prison worker questioned.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If they did as much planning to get away as they did to get, you know, out of the prison, they're gone.
COSTELLO: Who helped them break out? And what clues did they leave behind?
Also, a candid admission about the fight against ISIS.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We don't yet have a complete strategy because it requires commitments on the part of the Iraqis.
COSTELLO: Republicans ready to pounce.
REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R), HOUSE SPEAKER: We must have a comprehensive strategy. We need a more overarching strategy. And what we need is a strategy.
COSTELLO: Political shots fired, but what does it mean for American troops.
Plus, pool party protests. Accusations of racial misconduct against the officer who pushed a girl to the ground and pulled a gun on teenagers. But even neighbors don't see eye-to-eye about what happened.
Let's talk. Live in the CNN NEWSROOM.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.
On the loose and extremely dangerous, right now investigators are trying to figure out whether a female prison worker may have helped two cold-blooded killers break free from a supermax prison in upstate New York. A source confirming to CNN that the woman now at the center of the investigation knew Richard Matt and David Sweat very well. She worked with the inmates to tailor clothing.
In the meantime, the international manhunt is intensifying, stretching from Canada all the way to Mexico. Officials have released these photos hoping someone may recognize the men by their tattoos. Authorities are still trying to figure out how two brutal criminals cut through a steel wall with power tools and tunneled their way to freedom. What they do know, both men pose a serious threat to the public.
CNN's national correspondent Deborah Feyerick has more for you.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Vicious, cunning, extremely violent. That's how a retired detective describes now 49-year-old Richard Matt.
Matt was convicted in 2008 of kidnapping his ex-boss William Pickerson Sr. who owned a food delivery business. At the trial an accomplice testified the man he called Rick Matt tortured the elderly businessman, tossing him in a car trunk for 27 hours before snapping his neck. And it didn't stop there. Matt then dismembered Pickerson's body. The accomplice testifying, quote. "He cut up the torso and he said that he threw the legs in the Niagara River."
Before he could stand trial for that murder, he escaped to Mexico, where he soon killed another American in a bar. He was thrown in a Mexican prison and extradited to New York to stand trial for the Pickerson homicide. Years earlier in upstate New York, Matt had escaped a different prison facility while serving time for burglary.
GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D), NEW YORK: These are really dangerous desperate man. They are literally killers.
FEYERICK: The second fugitive is 35-year-old David Sweat. He is serving life without parole for the 2002 murder of Broom County sheriff's deputy, Kevin Tarsia.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This community knows Deputy Tarsia was gunned down by Mr. Sweat and another individual. So while he was out on parole.
FEYERICK: Sweat and an accomplice had just robed a gun store when they were confronted by the deputy, shooting him at least 12 times.
At the maximum security prison from which the men escaped, Matt and Sweat had adjoining cells. They worked in a prison tailor shop with a female employee, now suspected of helping the two men break out.
Deborah Feyerick, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO: We're also learning new details about both inmates. It turns out they had been rewarded for good behavior while in prison. Matt Sweat -- both me were in the honor block, meaning they had earned privileges behind bars. According to New York State's Department of Corrections being in the honor block can earn inmates access to larger cells, additional recreation time and access to appliances like washers and driers.
The brothers of a man murdered by David Sweat says he's upset his brother's killer was being rewarded while locked up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVEN TARSIA, BROTHER MURDERED BY ESCAPED CONVICT DAVID SWEAT: We all wanted the death penalty. But they decided not to do that so he got life in prison without any chance of ever parole.
[09:05:08] And they said that he would have an awful life there. And now I'm hearing that he was getting all these privileges and stuff. And that really upsets me about that. (END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: Authorities say both inmates could be anywhere right now. It's possible that they split up. What we do know is this. After escaping through an elaborate maze of underground tunnels, the convicted killers emerged from a manhole just 400 feet from the prison walls. That manhole, by the way, is in the middle of a residential area and is surrounded by homes.
In an exclusive interview with ABC News, two residents claimed they came face to face with both men in their backyard.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're looking around a little bit. As soon as I came across, they ran out of my yard.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: That was them?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That was them, yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: My next guest lives just five miles away from that prison and says she started locking her doors for the first time in 30 years. Elizabeth (INAUDIBLE) joins me now.
Good morning, Elizabeth.
ELIZABETH AHERN, COMMUNITY MEMBER: Good morning. How are you?
COSTELLO: I'm good. Are you scared?
AHERN: Yes, very, very scared. It's a scary situation. I think shocked and care scared. And we are now closing our doors and locking them and, you know, making sure we have knives and guns ready to go just in case.
COSTELLO: I hear a lot in your -- a lot of people in your community are armed.
AHERN: Yes, they are. We're avid hunters.
COSTELLO: I just think, are you armed because you live around a prison? Is that why? Because you suspected something may happen like this someday?
AHERN: No. No. Honestly we're avid hunters and everybody hunts in the North Country, or at least you know somebody who does. So most gentlemen have guns in their gun cabinets. And we're pretty fortunate that we live in the North Country to, you know, have access to hunting and fishing and lakes and that kind of thing so.
COSTELLO: I have to agree with you there. So a lot of people in town know someone who works at the prison or in businesses that have to do with the prison. Are you surprised that someone from the inside could have helped these men escape?
AHERN: Not surprised. Disappointed, but not surprised. I guess there are all kinds of individuals in the world and you would think a person working in that kind of situation would know better.
COSTELLO: Do you think that these men are still around?
AHERN: Yes, I do. I think they're probably -- initially I thought they fled. But it sounds like from reports they are definitely hanging around. My worst fear is that they're terrorizing somebody somewhere. And you know, I worry about our neighbors. And I'm hoping everybody is being adamant about, you know, checking on your neighbor. We've got a lot of elderly, we've got a lot of single moms. That's the worst fear.
COSTELLO: When you look at how these men escaped, it just seems impossible, doesn't it?
AHERN: It really does. From what I understand, the rumor has it that the holes were just perfect. My husband has a theory that maybe somebody actually came in and helped from the outside break them out. And it's I guess a good possibility. I'm not quite sure. I'm sure the people that -- police and investigators are able to piece it together. But that's just a theory.
COSTELLO: Elizabeth Ahern, thank you for sharing your insight this morning. I appreciate it.
AHERN: Thank you so much.
COSTELLO: You're welcome.
Community leaders in Cleveland say they don't trust the justice system so they're taking the Tamir Rice case into their own hands. They plan to use an obscure Ohio law to bypass prosecutors and go straight to a judge. They want murder charges filed against two officers involved in the 12-year-old's shooting death last year. The group is expected to announce their plans at a news conference later this morning.
CNN's Martin Savidge has more for you.
Good morning, Martin.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. This is really interesting because it's clear the family members of Tamir Rice and those who support them are very frustrated that it's been over six months and yet there's been no forward momentum in, say, the progression of the two police officers, which is something the family wants to see.
So they are using this little known Ohio law that essentially says anyone, any citizen who knows the facts of the case can go before a judge and demand that there be charges and an arrest. So that's what they're going to try to do. They're going to present an affidavit to a judge or at least to a municipal court and they're going to ask that -- this arrest warrant and these charges be placed. And they want the charges to be murder.
[09:10:13] It doesn't circumvent, though, a grand jury process because under the Ohio constitution, anybody charged with a felony has a right to have a grand jury hear this case. But what it could do is bring about the arrest of these officers, the charging of these officers even before a grand jury has a chance to render a decision one way or another in the case.
Now that said, there are many legal experts who have been poring over this obscure law and they say you know what, it sounds pretty good, but in fact this is really going to amount to nothing. They will probably go forward as planned with the grand jury.
We'll have to see. There's a news conference later this morning -- Carol.
COSTELLO: Yes, there is.
Martin Savidge reporting. Thanks so much.
Still to come in the NEWSROOM, it's not just the ISIS fighters we need to worry about. Why their wives may be just as dangerous.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:15:14] COSTELLO: U.S. intelligence agencies may have been underestimating the scope and power of women in ISIS. New intel gathered in last month's Army Delta Force raid in Syria reveals that some wives might be playing a more prominent role in terror operations than ever imagined, in part because they know officials pay less attention to them.
CNN's Barbara Starr live at the Pentagon with more. Good morning.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. Well, this is a puzzle that still remains to be totally figured out. But they are looking at that very question. When they killed that ISIS leader, Abu Sayyaf, last month, they were to capture his wife, Umm Sayyaf. She's been undergoing interrogation inside Iraq by U.S. and Iraqi officials. And she's been apparently been giving up, according to our sources, a good deal of information.
One of the marks on the wall, so to speak, that leads them to raise this question -- do the ISIS wives, the women who join ISIS or are intimidated into joining ISIS -- do they have more, do they know more about the organization than maybe people thought? Her information is being checked and validated, but it looks like she had a lot of information to share. Carol.
COSTELLO: Barbara Starr reporting live from the Pentagon. Thank you.
Critics are jumping on President Obama's admission that he's still searching for a way to train Iraqi troops to fight ISIS.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We don't yet have a complete strategy, because it requires commitments on the part of the Iraqis.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: Some call the president's words shocking, but it wasn't the first time the president conceded to not having a strategy. Here's Mr. Obama last August.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: I don't want to put the cart before the horse. We don't have a strategy yet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: The Republican House Speaker John Boehner says President Obama not having a plan, quote, "underscores the fact that he doesn't take the terrorist threat seriously." Boehner even released a video this morning showing his repeated calls for a White House strategy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: What I'm hoping to hear from the president today is a strategy. It's time for him to come up with a real, overarching strategy. We must have a comprehensive strategy. We need a more overarching strategy. What we need is a strategy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: Retired Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt joins me now to talk about this and more. Good morning, sir.
BRIGADIER GENERAL MARK KIMMITT, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Hi, how are you?
COSTELLO: I'm good. General, before we get into strategy, some surprising words out of the Donald Rumsfeld this morning. He told the "Times" of London he was concerned back in 2003 by talk of creating a democracy in Iraq. And I want to read you the direct quote.
He told the "Times" of London, quote, "I'm not one who thinks that our particular template of democracy is appropriate for every countries at every moment of their histories. The idea that we could fashion a democracy in Iraq seemed to me unrealistic. I was concerned about it when I first heard those words."
Are you surprised Mr. Rumsfeld would say that?
KIMMITT: Well, let's be clear about the situation is right now. Iraq does have a democracy. It's not a fully functioning democracy, but they've got a parliament, they've got a judiciary system. They have elected leaders. They've gone through a series of elections. So quite frankly, within the Middle East, there is room for the Iraqi democracy to improve and fully function, but it is one of the few true democracies in the Middle East.
COSTELLO: So is Donald Rumsfeld saying it's better that Iraq had not created this sort of democracy that's there now in place?
KIMMITT: I used to work for Defense Secretary Rumsfeld so I don't really understand the context of what he was saying. And I think it would be unfair if I -- unless I understood what he really meant when he was saying that -- to really comment on it.
COSTELLO: Well, in your opinion, does democracy really work in countries like Iraq?
KIMMITT: So far, the fact that most of the people are represented inside of Iraq by a democracy of elected leaders, I think that's much preferable to some of theocracies and some of the dictatorships that we're seeing in the region.
COSTELLO: But there are many, many problems with the Iraqi government, because the Iraqi government is in large part responsible for the rift in the Iraqi military, right?
KIMMITT: Certainly, but I would also say there are a lot of problems in our own democracy here that we see every day here at well. So let's give it some time and let's watch it grow. At the end of the day, I believe that the people inside of Iraq significantly prefer a representative government than they had under the dictatorship of Saddam.
COSTELLO: OK, so let's get -- let's head back to now, right. So the Pentagon supposedly is still working to solidify training plans for the Iraqi army. Is that different than an overall strategy to degrade ISIS or is it the same thing?
[09:20:05] KIMMITT: Well, let's focus on what the president was saying. And let's get aside from the punditry. The fact is he made and probably misspoke when he said we need a strategy. There is a strategy. It has trained 9 to 12 brigades. Get them out and let them do the fighting for their own country. The problem at this point is that the implementation of the strategy is running into challenges.
COSTELLO: Challenges like?
KIMMITT: Well, there are a significant number of challenges and they are shared by both sides. I don't think it helps to point fingers simply at the Iraqis or to have the Iraqis simply point the fingers at us.
Let's be very clear -- we haven't been able to deliver a single radio for one of the soldiers that's being trained under the Iraqi train- and-equip program. Our logistics program is burdensome. It has a number of checks and balances. But at the end result is we've had this plan in place for about nine months. And the fundamental requirement for putting radios in the hands of the Iraqis hasn't occurred yet.
At the same time, there are recruiting problems. We have five sites inside of Iraq that are training Iraqi soldiers. We wanted to train around 45,000 of them. We've only trained about 9,000 of them. And very few of them have been trained at al Asad, the Sunni base. Why is it that we have been unable to train so many Sunnis? Well, they still don't have a full belief in the government, the Shia-led government, inside of Iraq.
So there are a number of problems both on our side and on the Iraqi side that are causing a fundamentally sound strategy to be held up and not to be fully implemented at this point. Hence, I think we see the results on the ground in places such as Ramadi.
COSTELLO: So are you saying that the Pentagon does have a sound strategy? It's just been very difficult to implement?
KIMMITT: I think that's right. I think the strategy of "by, with, and through the Iraqis" rather than fighting on behalf of the Iraqis, but providing support for the Iraqis, providing overhead cover, providing overhead air support, providing equipment and money, but letting them do the fighting, is generally the correct strategy to take. I believe that we could do more. I believe that we ought to have not simply advisors and assisters, but we ought to be allowed to accompany those forces into combat. But I think in general the strategy is a sound strategy for defeating Daesh inside of Iraq.
COSTELLO: General Mark Kimmitt, thank you for your insight. I appreciate it.
KIMMITT: Sure.
COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM, the teenager who shot this video now speaking out. Nick Valencia is in that very divided Texas neighborhood.
NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. Divided indeed. Competing narratives with some feeling that the cop was justified. Others think he went too far.
I'm Nick Valencia in McKinney, Texas. We'll tell you all about that, plus what the police union has to say about Friday's incident. You're watching the CNN NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:27:17] COSTELLO: Protesters now calling for a Texas officer to be fired.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PROTESTERS: All lives matter! All lives matter! All lives matter!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: Hundreds are demanding justice after this incident that was all caught on tape. The video showing a cop slamming a young girl to the ground. That officer, Eric Casebolt, remains off duty this morning. He's been placed on administrative leave while his department investigates.
Several party-goers say the officer was targeting African-Americans, including the teenager who shot that video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRANDON BROOKS, SHOT VIDEO OF POOL PARTY INCIDENT: All she was doing was talking to her friends about the situation. And I think she might have -- she was, quote, unquote, "running her mouth." And, I mean, she has freedom of speech and that was very uncalled for, to throw her to the ground.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: CNN's Nick Valencia is outside the police officer in McKinney with more this morning. Good morning, Nick.
VALENCIA: Good morning, Carol. You mentioned those calls for resignation. Others want that officer fired. Officer Casebolt with the McKinney Police Department at the center of Friday's pool party confrontation.
We were there also last night when hundreds of protesters took to the streets to show their disapproval with his actions, calling it police brutality, excessive force. Even still, and interestingly enough, the majority of the residents that we spoke to in that McKinney subdivision agreed with the officer and what he did. Some going so far as to say that he even deserves a medal for unholstering his weapon, and that he did nothing wrong.
The teens at the party, well, they see it just a little bit differently. They say that if those teenagers were white, the situation would have played out differently. Competing narratives in what is a very divided subdivision in McKinney Texas.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAHI ADISA BAKARI, FATHER OF GIRL IN VIDEO: I'm not indicting the entire police department, because I saw some people doing the right thing. I saw officers actually trying to keep the matter right. This guy was just out of control. He should be drug tested, then fired.
JORDAN GRAY, WITNESS: I think the officer was wrong on his case. He was right for being there, but he could have handled his situation so much better.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That police officer, along with everyone else, they were completely in the right and protecting everyone. He was not out of line. I completely support him.
BENET EMBRY, WITNESS: What you missed before, you missed the fights that were happening. You missed the security guard trying to escort the people who were jumping over the fence into the pool, trying to escort them out. What you also missed is the police officer telling people to go home, go home, go home. Not every cause is a just cause for us to be up in arms about. Is there certain thing -- (END VIDEOTAPE)
VALENCIA: Some of those residents seen on that videotape trying to calm the situation down as well as helping the police officer say that they have been targeted on social media by death threats. As a matter of fact, Carol, we saw some of those residents, mostly white residents, packing up, saying they didn't feel comfortable staying in that neighborhood.
[09:30:06] They heard about that rally that was making its way to that site of Friday's pool party incident.
