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Dennis Hastert Pleads Not Guilty; Two Escaped Convicts Spotted? Aired 3:30-4:00p ET.

Aired June 09, 2015 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:32:40] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: Breaking news out of the James Holmes theater shooting trial in Colorado. Our correspondent Ana Cabrera is watching it all in Centennial. And the news now, Ana, is that three jurors have now been released. Tell me why.

ANA CABRERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And that happened just in the last 30 minutes, Brooke, with the judge excused three of the 24 jurors who are part of this group that's been sitting through more than six weeks of testimony so far in this case.

What happened today was one of the jurors not the one who was excused in this group, but one juror approached the judge and said that she needed to talk to him today because she overheard another juror talking about the case, something that they had been advised over and over and over that they could not do. And what this juror reported hearing was that this other juror said she overheard or read something about media reports, one regarding a motion by a lawyer for a mistrial as well as another incident where one of the lawyers reportedly sent out a tweet during some of the testimony regarding the videotaped interviews that the jury had been listening to between Holmes and a psychiatrist. And that led to a chain of events and as those all unfolded the juror who had shared this information identified three different jurors, one who had talked about this information in the media report, and two other jurors who may have been part of the group in which that information was disseminated. And ultimately, the judge agreed to keep this juror who came forward and shared the information, but released the other three jurors who had been exposed to this information - Brooke.

BALDWIN: Got it. Ana Cabrera, thank you so much in Colorado.

Also some news this hour involving the man who was one in line to the office of the president, after this melee outside of the courthouse, federal courthouse in Chicago this scrum. You will see him in a minute. You'll see former speaker of the house Dennis Hastert, here he is. He has pleaded not guilty on all counts against him. As we have been talking about, you know, he is accused of violating federal banking laws, lying to the FBI. And (INAUDIBLE) because prosecutors say he used that cash at the heart of this case to pay what amounted to hush money buying the silence of former students he allegedly sexually abused decades ago when he was a high school teacher and a coach.

I have our investigative correspondent Chris Frates outside the courthouse and he was inside throughout the whole thing.

So Chris Frates, talk to me. What did you see? What did you hear?

[15:35:16] CHRIS FRATES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey Brooke. Well, as you can see that we're waiting for Dennis Hastert to come out of court where he just pled not guilty to charges of hiding hush money and lying to the FBI about it. That you can see we're waiting for him to come out. He posted a $4,500 bond so he's allowed to leave the courthouse. We're all waiting for him to make what would be one of his first public appearances. We'll see him come out here. Then we are going to wait and see if we hear from his lawyer.

He had to turn over his passports to the court. He's not allowed to leave the country now. So here we have somebody who was the third most powerful man in American politics just a few years ago can't even leave the country. And he needs to alert the court if he even wants to travel inside of the United States, Brooke.

So we are waiting here to see Dennis Hastert come out, see if he'll answer any questions and in fact see if his lawyers will talk to us and give us a sense of what their side of this story is, Brooke. It's been almost two weeks since he was indicted and this is a first shot we'll have at seeing what kind of story Dennis Hastert has to say.

BALDWIN: Massive, massive media presence there outside those doors. We'll keep one eye on you, Chris Frates there in the Chicago federal courthouse as we await former speaker of the house Dennis Hastert to walk through the doors.

In the meantime, we are going to take you back to the manhunt underway for those two killers who escaped from prison four days ago. We'll talk to someone from Willsboro next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:40:51] BALDWIN: All right, let's go back to Chicago's federal courthouse, here you go. Moments ago former speaker of the house Dennis Hastert, you hear. That's Chris Frates voice shouting Mr. Hastert.

Chris Frates, let me go to you. I hear you trying. I hear you trying to shout questions at him. This was moments ago as he left after pleading not guilty for all counts. You're in the thick of the whole thing, talk to me about what you just saw.

FRATES: Well, Brooke, we just saw Dennis Hastert come out. He didn't take any questions. As you heard, we were trying to ask him about the allegations of sexual abuse. He walked on through. He didn't talk about it.

What we saw just a few minutes ago he pled not guilty to charges of hiding hush money and lying to the FBI about it. Now sources tell CNN that that hush money went, in fact, to a former student who had allegations that Hastert sexually abused him.

Hastert just a few moments ago during his first public appearance not answering any questions about those allegations. He was very polite in court, he answered the judge's questions, but he did not make any big statements, Brooke. And we're seeing just now he is released on $4,500 bail and he is free until his next court appearance.

BALDWIN: And there you have it. c, thank you so much, outside that Chicago federal courthouse.

Let's go back to upstate New York here, fast moving manhunt for two escaped killers on the run. Investigators are really honing in on and combing Willsboro, New York, now. You can see, it is just about 35 miles south of that Clinton correctional facility from which they - where they escaped. But who were these notorious killers and how did they manage to get out in the first place?

Let's turn to someone who has done time on the inside, Larry Lawton is a former jewel thief who spent 11 years in a federal prison. He is now a motivational speaker and an author.

So Larry, welcome back to the show. And let me just begin with the fact that, you know, we're hearing the fact that they're on foot potentially it's these two who were spotted in this little town tells me there was no getaway car or that person bailed on them.

LARRY LAWTON, SPENT 11 YEARS IN FEDERAL PRISON: Well obviously they should have had a backup plan if that's the case, if something happened, they should have had something set up that if the car doesn't show up, which way we're going to go. It was very planned very well. But what I really got a hold of in one of your former speakers is they talked about how they can get things through prison. And it's pretty easy, Brooke, to get like even a saw blade through security checkpoints and stuff of that nature.

BALDWIN: How was it easy to get a saw through a maximum security prison?

LAWTON: Well, it depends on the size of course. But if it's a saw blade, say this long and you're going to get it through, there's something called I'll show your audience, it is called suit-casing something. It is actually hiding something in your rectum. And it is not like you stick a saw blade there. You actually take a toothbrush holder, Brooke, and they put the saw blade in the toothbrush holder and insert it there. You can get through three metal detectors. It happens quite often. I mean, your metal detector would go off, but then when it goes off, the guards will strip search you and don't find anything, they don't know if you have a bullet in you and the lines are backing up and they let you go through. And all of a sudden you're on wherever you want in the prison with that saw blade that might be that long, as long as a toothbrush holder. So there's ways to get things. I used to see it every day in maximum security prisons, Brooke. Ingenuity is amazing in prison.

BALDWIN: I will take your word for that, Larry Lawton. Let's move on, shall we, because I wanted to ask you about this female civilian worker inside who according to reports, listen, she's not charged, she's just there being questioned, thrown in her direction, because apparently she maybe had a personal relationship with one of these two. They are all working together in a tailor shop, maybe she was the one who helped procure said saw from the outside and bring it in. I mean, how easy is it to have relationships with people on the inside?

[15:44:52] LAWTON: It's actually pretty easy. You know, it's done a few ways. It's done sexually and it's done with money. I mean, a lot of the guards don't make a lot of money so they are tempted by people who do have money in prison. I saw it all the time corrupted guards.

And I'm not saying all of them, Brooke, of course. But once you can get into one it's like anything else. I believe there was a sexual relationship, that's how it usually starts and I saw a lot of that in prison. So, I mean, once that happens, she don't want to lose her job. They ask her for a little bit more every time. And before you know it, she's in deep and she doesn't know how to get out.

BALDWIN: This was a civilian worker who is working in the tailor shop and then I guess they had gotten to know at least one of these two. What about this, because I was talking to this reporter for the local paper and he was saying to me, had just heard there was a guitar case, again, this is the paper is reporting, there was a guitar case inside this prison cell. And apparently inside the guitar case is where they hid the tools. And then, once they cut the, you know, through the cell wall, they took this guitar case with them to continue cutting. How is that not caught during a cell search?

LAWTON: Well, you know, it depends on how good, what they call them is a shakedown in prison, Brooke. They'll come in and they will toss your cell. And depending how hard they look, being they were in the honor dorm is what they calling it. They probably weren't shaken down as hard as the other units in the prison and they had privileges. But there's guitars, people have music that they'll play a guitar and let them have certain items in the cell.

So once you have that cell, you got to remember, a person is in that cell for a long time. You can figure out places. We used to take a hole in the wall and actually take toilet paper and wet the toilet paper and put it in there like plaster, and then paint over it, we'd get paint from the CMS shop and it would look just like a hole in the wall or that's actually covered up and there would be items behind the hole.

There is ton of places especially in an old facility like Clinton which was I think 1844 it was built, so older facilities are easier. I'm surprised they housed these guys in a facility like that. Lot of prisons aren't doing that anymore.

BALDWIN: Larry Lawton, full of experience and knowledge, thank you.

LAWTON: Thank you, Brooke. Thanks for having me.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, my conversation just this morning, I've been in Maryland to talk to two active police officers in the city of Baltimore. We talked to them in shadows, because sitting with me could cost them their jobs, talked about of course what happened with regard to Freddie Gray, what they revealed to me, that's coming up next.

Plus, police also just filed a motion in court hours ago, we have the latest from Baltimore, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:51:59] BALDWIN: Breaking news here in early morning hours, we have learned that there was a spotting of possibly these two convicted escaped inmates in this town, just south of the Clinton correctional center in upstate New York, in a town of Willsboro, New York. And we have Jason Carroll, our correspondent now on the ground.

Jason, I mean, we see the law enforcement presence. They're all looking apparently at some farmlands, some wooded areas for these two, maybe near some train tracks. Tell me what you're hearing?

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via phone): Well, it is not just what we are hearing, what we're seeing is, well, Brooke, a number of police vehicles parked out here on a rural road in this area, spoke to residents here who said it was about 10:30 this morning when he said about 50 law enforcement officers began searching his backyard.

Just to give you sort of a sense of where his property is located, there are train tracks, about 300 yards on one side, a river on the other side. He then said that the searchers went into the back densely wooded area, and that is where they remain at this point. When we arrived here at the scene, there were helicopters above. We do not hear that at this point. But I can tell you that the searchers are still here in the densely wooded area of Willsboro.

The town's supervisor saying there was some sort of activity that alerted officials to come to this particular spot. Haven't heard any more about it at this point?

So Brooke, right now we are awaiting the searchers to emerge from the woods. But once again, densely wooded area. That they're focusing on train tracks on one side at this particular search group, (INAUDIBLE) on the other side -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: I am sure, Jason Carroll, we will be seeing a lot of you over the course of the next few hours here as the search intensifies in Willsboro, New York. For now, thank you so much.

And now to a CNN exclusive. It's been weeks since the riots erupted in Baltimore after the death of Freddie Gray. It has also been the city's deadliest month in 42 years.

So we wanted to get some perspective from people we haven't heard from throughout all of this. The people protecting the community on the ground, police officers. I sat down with two current officers just this morning in Maryland. Their identities are concealed. They talked to me about everything from the arrest of six of their colleagues to how they cannot properly do their job jobs. Here's a piece of that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Every day, our officers respond with the same amount of vigor they've always done even before Freddie brown.

BALDWIN: So what's different?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, what's different is, the proactive self- initiated policing has stopped.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the result you get ultimately, it does a disservice to the law abiding citizens. It does disservice (INAUDIBLE). It does disservice to everybody except the criminality because we are (INAUDIBLE). They know that pretty much the whole police department has shifted. You have no more initiated stops per say, you know. We're worried. Even though you have a reasonable suspension, and you see, you know, a guy walking down the street, there's a bulge from the waistband and different incidents we're trained for to look for. I can tell you this, it's the truth. Nine out of ten times the officer will keep on driving.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[15:56:00] BALDWIN: Nine out of ten times that officer is going to keep on driving. There's so much more from that interview, I talked to them for an hour. You'll see it this evening on CNN.

But I have Miguel Marquez who has been in Baltimore more than any of us here covering the story from the get-go. He's in Baltimore, also, I have Baltimore defense attorney and former prosecutor Andy Alpertstein.

So gentlemen, welcome to both of you.

And Miguel, first to you, I know you have some new information coming in about this motion that was filed by the officers charged in Freddie Gray's death. Tell me about the motion.

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this is the supplemental motion to either have the entire case against all six officers dismissed or at least to have the states attorney recuse herself from this case. And they're using her own words, her own offense towards against her in this situation.

We're at the corner of north and mount. This is the convenience store that Freddie Gray was seen coming out of. When he saw police, he ran. He was arrested just a couple blocks down that way of (INAUDIBLE).

What they are saying in this document that weeks before, Freddie Gray came out of this convenience store and saw officers there, that Mosby's office had asked police in this area to crackdown. What they said was an open air drug market on this particular quarter. They offered up pictures, surveillance pictures from residence they say to prove that drugs were being sold here openly.

One of the officers who received that e-mail instruction to crackdown on this corner was Lieutenant Brian Rice, one of the people who saw gray, chased him and arrested him down there, and now faces charges with his arrest as well.

Marilyn Mosby's office, for her part, has says that they have now received the motion and say they're not going to try it in the media, they will try it in court, and they will have a response at the appropriate time in court. But certainly this opens up a whole other can of worms, they are accusing her basically of ordering cops to crackdown here, and then prosecuting them when they did.

BALDWIN: Andy, I want you to react to Miguel's point just then. And also, you know, it is unlikely, a, that charges would be dropped for what happened. And, b, Mosby's already said once, you know, no way will she recuse herself, so what is the point here?

ANDREW ALPERTSTEIN, BALTIMORE DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, the point is that when the officers go to stop this gentleman, Mr. Gray. They are trying to stop him, because they had reasonable suspension that criminality has occurred. And that's the issue now. That's what Miss Mosby is saying, it was any legal detention.

And when you have somebody who runs from police in a high crime area, that is clear black letter law justification to stop somebody. And if you can articulate a weapon or a knife or suspension of anything like that, you can handcuff them. That's the law.

So when Miss Mosby sends an email to police, this happens to be the same intersection that later the Gray incident occurs, it becomes important because she's actually meeting one of the elements that the defense needs to prove which is it's a high crime area.

I think they're going to subpoena her as a witness in the case. And then argue the recusal. I think the chances of being dismissed, that's not going to happen.

BALDWIN: What about, I have 30 seconds with you. Talking to those two officers this morning, one of the points they made was, you know, they were one of these officers, they would absolutely want this trial moved out of Baltimore. They say there is no way from their law enforcement perspective, that these six officers will get a fair trial. What's the likelihood, 20 seconds that that would happen.

ALPERTSTEIN: Sure, 100 percent of the people on the jury are going to live in Baltimore, that's how it works. And 100 percent of them were, you know, obviously impacted by the curfew. So I think there's a strong argument for removal candidly. I think it is a strong of an argument as you'll ever see based on what's going on here. So I think there's a good chance.

BALDWIN: OK. Andy Alpertstein, thank you so much. Miguel Marquez on the ground in Baltimore, thank you.

And make sure you watch. We will have much more of my exclusive interview of these two current Baltimore City police officers in the shadows tonight starting at 10:00 on CNN tonight.

That does it for me. I'm Brooke Baldwin. "The LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts now.