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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Obamacare Faces Judgment In Supreme Court; Capitol Police Evacuate Those In Dirksen Senate Office Building; McKinney Police Department Identifies Suspended Officer; Two Escaped Prisoners Tracked to Willsboro, NY. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired June 09, 2015 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:00] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN HOST: The plan B aspect of all of this, I mean you were integrally involved in conversing and then advising the president as this was being crafted. And I think so many people are somewhat perplexed by the notion that if the Supreme Court shoot this down, and as Alison is about to tell us, it goes into a death fire (ph) or the business model can't be sustain. Why no plan B?

DAN PFEIFFER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, it's going to require Congressional action, right? That's the only way that it's going to get it done.

I think it's important to note that they're in the process of putting together the bill. This is the one of those times you have to like define what the thought for legislative content for people that worked the bill is. We know what they intended.

Republicans and Democrats who worked the bill said that they intended it to work the way it's currently working.

And so the president's right is (ph) with the walls on his side.

But if the Supreme Court chooses the other direction, it's going to dramatic -- really affect people's lives. And the Congress is going to kind of step in to fix that problem.

BANFIELD: Yeah. And so, I guess the issue is when I'm watching that speech, I'm seeing what Jeff Zeleny just said as well, it just looks so much like the campaign to get Obamacare passed.

Is he speaking to Republicans in Congress? Is he speaking to the justices he's not sure about right now?

PFEIFFER: I don't think he's speaking to the justices. I don't think the president thinks for the speech he give is going to affect how the justices. I think he's speaking to the members of Congress, Republicans and Democrats and the country to set the stage for what -- for the decision that can come as you say any day now.

BANFIELD: Sure. And I just want to remind people. If you're just tuning in, or if it's somewhat complex, don't feel bad. This is just (ph).

Dan, how many pages is the Obamacare --

PFEIFFER: There are lots of pages.

BANFIELD: It's a lot. It's in the thousands. Even you grab and help the graphic concept.

Let me just read for you the sentence, because it's really all about this one sentence of law will do it gets persnickety, and this is what it's about, the subsidies called premium assistance. "Premium assistance" may be available for health plans "enrolled in through an Exchange established by the State."

So what about the exchanges established by the fed? Well, that's the issue, and those who challenge this and our critiques are saying if you're one of those people in, what 37 states, Joey?

JACKSON: 36 states.

BANFIELD: 36 states in the federal exchange?

JACKSON: Right. And then you have, of course, the 13 that are --

BANFIELD: Who are those on the state exchanges, you're okay.

JACKSON: Exactly.

BANFIELD: If you're on the state exchange, you're okay. The critiques say you're protected because that's what the language said. But they say if you're on the federal exchanges, the subsidies were never meant for you and the Supreme Court needs to decide what actually --

JACKSON: Exactly.

BANFIELD: -- the law meant.

JACKSON: So go back to Dan's point momentarily, and it's -- the intention is clear, but that's always a problem. Why is it a problem? Because Congress just says what it means.

We shouldn't have to sit here and discern what did you really mean when you wrote that and then in the event you really intended for everyone to be covered, just say so.

This way, you don't have to look at the legislative intent. However, to Dan's point, you make the argument, "What's the purpose," Ashleigh? What's the purpose for establishing the Affordable Care Act? To ensure the people are covered, to ensure the people have the benefit of healthcare, but when you don't specifically say that now, what happens is Congress has to go back and they have to look at what your intentions were.

And you know what? There are some pretty strict constructionist on that Supreme Court said who knows. But you know what? It has a devastating impact in the event of the Supreme Court says, "It didn't say what you mean. We're going to read this literally," then so many people, as Alison, of course, going to speak, they will be thrown off the rolls.

BANFIELD: And I'm going to go to Alison right now, but not before I say those strict constructionists are the ones who say, "Letter of the law." You can't just go willy-nilly when you see language, languages, language. Just ask those who talked about the second minute.

Alison Kosik, the death viral. I need you to explain why is all of those people in the federal exchanges lose their subsidies? Why an insurance model just -- it just can't exist. And what that death viral is all about?

ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: So you have to really look at the people who are getting those subsidies. These people are below the poverty level. They need these subsidies to get insurance, to be on Obamacare. This is anywhere from six million to eight million people getting the subsidy so they can get themselves and their family members insurance.

OK. So what happens if that subsidy is taken away? It means they probably can't afford to be getting that insurance. They can't pay into Obamacare. So what will happen? They will drop out. And then whoever is left will be imposed with even higher rates from insurers who will then, of course, rave those rates to make up -- to sort of make up for that back fell of the millions of people who are left.

And if those people who are left in Obamacare are left to pay those higher insurance rates, they're going to say, "Wait a minute, I can't afford this either. I'm hit in the road as well." And then what are you left with? The bottom falls out of Obamacare and then, of course, you hit that despite word, the business model just doesn't work.

BANFIELD: Well. And we're all waiting, you know, with bated breath to find out what those jobs to just decide and it's going to come any day now.

Thank you to all of you, because it is complex and you've made it very simple. And by the way, I should have said welcome Dan to the CNN family. This is very rude of me. Thanks to have you here.

PFEIFFER: I appreciate it.

BANFIELD: Thanks. You finally meet me in person, too, up here in New York.

Thank you to all of our helpers, Jeff and Sanjay as well who are on remote with us.

So by now, you have seen the video of the Texas Police Officer, taking down that teenage girl wearing only a bikini.

[12:35:06] Up next, you're going to hear about what that young lady has to say about it.

There was a young lady in that crowd who said she has a profound opinion about this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Our breaking news comes to us from the Dirksen Senate office building, where a hearing was underway, when it was abruptly interrupted by the Capital Hill police who were saying, "Evacuate now."

Apparently, a suspicious package was found, and the hearing room was cleared forth. I want you to see that moment as it actually transpired, take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dear officers, we need to have stay on recess for this committee hearing. We have -- fairly, the Capitol Police is clearing this. So, we should be squat down, stay in place.

Okay, we're clearing the floor.

So, if you could, in orderly fashion, please exit as quickly as possible. Thank you.

(CROSSTALK)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[12:40:00] BANFIELD: A very organized and controlled evacuation of the hearing room in the Senate office of the Dirksen Senate office building.

What I'm showing you now is that room. It is cleared and evacuated. And what we're told was that, they were doing sort of a cursory check of the empty room. And we're also told that this concern extended to other areas as well.

They were looking to clear floors and that's a plural, clear floors of the Dirksen Senate Office Building.

The capital police going through methodically after having found a suspicious package that is the room that supposed to be active right now with a hearing with TSA officials who should be testifying right now for the first time, after 73 active aviation workers, with links to terrorism, lack effective controls to keep the perspective employees within their criminal histories and their illegal status from getting a job.

So basically the background checks weren't good enough to keep people who effectively were on fly less than have bad histories from getting hired by the TSA. So that should be a TSA hearing right know, but as you just heard evacuated, because of the suspicious package.

We're going to continue to watch that with our CNN D.C. bureau to find out if there is any revolution to that package and how many people ended up being cleared.

But in the meantime I'm going to move on with other news of the day as well, because for the first time, we're now hearing from the teenage girl, who has at the center of that video being shown taken down by a Texas police officer in her bikini at a pool party over the weekend.

Her name is Dajerria Becton and she discussed this ordeal with Fox Facilitate Kathy FW.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAJERRIA BECTON, THROWN DOWN BY OFFICER: He told me to keep walking and I kept walking and then I'm guessing, he thought we were saying rude stuff to him.

He grabbed me. And he like twisting my arm on the back of my back and he shoved me in the grass.

And he start pulling back of my breves and I was like telling him that, he can get off me, because my back was hurting really bad.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: We now know the name of that man in the center of your screen.

The Texas police officer accused of using excessive force against Miss Becton and then also several other teenagers. The McKinney Police Department has identified the now suspended officer as Eric Casebolt.

In the interim hundreds of protesters are taking to the street in fact, this one you see last night demanding the McKinney Texas Police Department, fire Officer Casebolt.

Joining me now from Dallas Texas is Jahi Adisa Bakari who's daughter Jahda was at that pool party and before we talk, I want you to listen to Jahda describe how frightened she was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When that gun came out of his holster, what did you think?

JAHDA BAKARI, ATTENDED POOL PARTY: Fear like you just, because usually when someone pulls out a gun they're intending to use it. There it's not like your just going to pull it out to scare people, your intending to use the gun, so when he pulled that out, it was kind of like, the reason I did not run away is because I was frozen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Mr. Bakari I'm so glad that you have the opportunity to speak with us. What did your daughter -- by the way I think she's 13 and if I'm not mistaken by all means correct me. What did your daughter tell you about the accounts start to finish.

JAHI BAKARI, DAUGHTER ATTENDED POOL PARTY: First of, yeah, just turn her voice, as you intrude me kind of just put me -- sent me back a little bit. Yeah, but it's the same, I have the same type of feeling I'm horrified. And she was also, you know, just the fact that I dint find out until afterwards. She was too afraid to even discuss the situation, she wasn't even aware of the magnitude of the situation. She was there along with my goddaughter as we'll as her older sister and five of her cousins, so there you go.

BANFIELD: And is she, so the young woman I mean she's a girl, she's 14, Dajerria who is thrown down. We're looking at the video, as we're speaking with you sir. Did she talked to her friend about this incident and what happened after the cameras stopped rolling?

JAHI BAKARI: No, they have not been in communication. We pretty much been trying to keep our family glue together. And I'm sure Dajerria family is doing the same thing. And eventually once this settle down, we'll all have a meet up and, you know, try to get some counseling for everyone.

BANFIELD: And I want to just continue to show some of the video that was taken, while all of these was happening I believe your daughter, again, aged 13 was hit by a police allegedly, if you can just look in the shadow box here you can see the officer strike.

It -- there is so much conversation, surrounding this video.

[12:45:02] And Mr. Bakari, I'd like to ask you, your thoughts, few people think the officer behaved completely appropriately. And many people think this is racist. And I want to get your opinion on that.

JAHI BAKARI: Well this is definitely, you know, it's an eye opener, because McKinney itself is a wonderful community that you would think. But this is just open, you know, just open eyes to a lot of people, that there's -- deeply see at racism in this community and as we'll as America, because we see things in a different pattern (ph).

We will not accept the fact that a grown man, and adult officer will handle a female like that.

That's unacceptable, and that's more cultural could be socioeconomic I don't know. But that is not acceptable in the black community at any time, serious, he should been a black police officer --

BANFIELD: I think it's unacceptable in every community, I think we will not be discord that a grown man shouldn't be drilling a 14 year old girl faced into the mud, specially since she wasn't resisting when he came back to her after that little run around with the gun drown. But here's what I want to mention to you about one of the residence in that community.

His name is Benet Embry, he's 43 years old, he lives there, his lived there for eight years. And he had a different perspective on it. And he is African-American I should say, he said let me reiterate the neighbor in the neighborhood did not call the police because this was an African-American party or whatever the situation is.

He was going to say, this was not a racially motivated event at all, the whole thing is being blown completely out of proportion, he also said, I may not agree with everything the police officer did. But I do believe he is trying to establish order. So there is a -- there's some discord among African-Americans themselves about whether this was a racially charged police issue or whether there may have been some racially charged issues prior to the police getting there.

JAHI BAKARI: Well, let me just, you know, let me start by a grim or on one thing about this other black gentleman.

Black people are not monolithic, we all have different opinions on a whole lot different subjects, the majority of black people will agree on my side, we don't accept black -- we don't accept law enforcement in general, because of our history. A lot of this is historical. And a lot of officers have gotten away, I'm talking from Oscar Grant, to the Trayvon Martin, Mark Brown, Eric Garner, the history -- is historically bad for a police officers in a black community specially with black youth.

So when you have a situation like that, we don't actually going to, you know, lot of us are going to say, "Hey, here we go again" and that's just how you feel. And a lot of people automatically will going to say, well, "Hey, the officer is justified," and we see things just as a prism, all the people will think, the officer is doing the right thing. And in our eyes, you'll never be looked doing anything right and anyone of that feels that way, they are definitely someone who is not of -- you know, our back ground anyway. That's all I can tell you.

BANFIELD: I think if I were you and that were my daughter, and I saw that video, I would be in sent, and I would be livid and I would probably feel many of the things that you're feeling. And at the same time there is so much of the video that we haven't seen, there's so much of the situation that we haven't seen.

I've been told there was a young white girl who is also -- who is detained and put in, in handcuffs as well, so that's why I asked and tell all the factor in, is it fair to immediately assume that this is a race based policing issue. And maybe, you know, more facts than I do, because your is a witness, I'm siting in New York City.

JAHI BAKARI: Well here is the deal, if not -- let me say this, everything you said is correct in terms of until all the facts are out there. But one thing that you cannot deny, there is no way you can honestly say, that police officer -- not the police force.

That police officer, office Arverson Casebolt, or officer nut case, whatever his name is, there is no way he should have treated those dude (ph) the way that he treat them.

He was very insensitive, he was very -- he was talking very disrespectful to the children.

BANFIELD: Yeah.

JAHI BAKARI: due to the profanity, the way he will just going around, just isolating, picking on the boys, who had done nothing, there was no crime being committed. He would allegedly call there for an incident involving women. So I only blame the McKinney Police Department who let only one thing aside from sending Officer Casebolt, and that is they didn't have the sensitivity in to bring female officers because they knew the incident happen on a swimming pool and there would be women there.

BANFIELD: And I mean I think we're in agreement, there should be no way a 14 year old in a bikini should have her face smashed into the lawn. There's just no excuse for it.

I think there are many aspects of this that still need to be hashed out. I'm so sorry for what, that you and your daughter have gone through. And I really hope we can get some answers and get some healing here as well. Thank you so much Mr. Bakari.

JAHI BAKARI: I appreciate for having me.

BANFIELD: Appreciate you coming on. Texas chapter by the way the NAACP, I interviewed the president of him yesterday.

[12:50:04] And today, he's telling CNN or at least the chapters telling CNN that members of the organization had a "constructive meeting" yesterday. I was with, Greg Conley who the chief of the McKinney Police Department.

You'll remember Gary Bledsoe president of the NAACP Texas chapter. He says that Conley seems sincerely concerned about this incident. And he says his department is going to investigate this thoroughly.

But Mr. Bledsoe says the NAACP is taking the position that a neutral third party organization should instead lead the party to investigate this incident. We're going to keep posted on what transpires there.

Anyway you slice it though this is not way they should have gone down. Joining me to talk about Officer Casebolt action is CNN Law Enforcement Analyst Harry Houck.

So Harry since yesterday we spoke not a lot has changed in terms of further evidence, further video other things that have come out, come to like. The only one thing, a detective telling me that there was a white young teenage girl who was also handcuffed somewhere out of frame at some point.

But it doesn't change things to the officer does it?

HARRY HOUCK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Not really but we have some independent witnesses now that we didn't have yesterday that came out. We have that black gentleman who you talked about, I saw his interview. He said there was fighting going on, there was fist fights going on, people trying to get in to the pool party that weren't invited.

And whether or not he called the police, I don't know by the fact that, you know, we didn't see what happened before this video also. We don't know how long this thing was going on.

But police officers were trying to get people off the street, now the neighborhood for what happened.

So it did seem like there was some kind of altercations going on at that time.

Now that officer to me was definitely out of control. There's no doubt about it. I mean that young girl who he put her face in to the ground there, she was already sitting down.

BANFIELD: Yes, can we roll that, I want to show that. Can we roll the moment please where he draw this gun when those young man come behind him, he draws his gun, he chases them, he comes back to this young girl.

HOUCK: Right.

BANFIELD: Who is seated and crying. She maybe talking.

HOUCK: Right.

BANFIELD: She maybe talking loudly. But she affectedly is not resisting. She has not gotten up, she's not doing anything else --

HOUCK: Exactly.

BANFIELD: And this is where the police officer, I want to know, so he chased these other two.

HOUCK: Right.

BANFIELD: Then he comes back to her. She is seated.

HOUCK: Right. And that's the issue right there. You know, she is already seated, in this way you should just left her alone. I mean I don't know if she was placed under arrest or not. You know, but the fact that, you know, she wasn't really a threat at that time. You know, this is why when you respond to scenes like this, you've got to go to your complaint who made the call and find out who are the troublemakers here.

And then you target the troublemakers, and that the other officers.

BANFIELD: That's pretty hard to do when you have dozens and dozens of kids.

HOUCK: I know it's hard.

BANFIELD: And everyone is wearing a bathing suit, you can't just say the kids in the bathing suit.

HOUCK: But, you know, your complaints, come out and say that kid over there, that kid over there, that kid over there, they are the once that are causing problems.

BANFIELD: -- I want to re-rack that and show that moment again where she is seated, he leaves her, she does not get up, he comes back to her after having chased the other two. He comes back to her, she is still seated.

The issue is framing --

HOUCK: He's tempered.

BANFIELD: Well let me ask you this because there's another detective I spoke who said sometimes the screaming can be considered, trying to insight others to continue the disruption. But I'm not sure - I mean a lay person not a cop. And I don't see this here.

HOUCK: I mean that's definitely a possibility. But you can clearly see this situation that that officer should've just let her sit there and try and get the other kids to move away, whether he's make an arrest or not.

You know, you got to get all the girls in the back, yelling, screaming back and forth, you got a crazy situation here, you need more officers to get involved over here and move those girls away.

BANFIELD: Third party needed here.

HOUCK: I don't think so, that's crazy. I mean I don't think this is a racially motivated incident at all. There's nothing to indicate that. What I really like to hear is the 911 call and say who was making trouble.

BANFIELD: But we're watching and we're going to investigate clearly more facts to come.

Harry Houck thank you for your perspective I appreciate it as always.

We got some new developments in the manhunt for those two escaped prisoners, convicted murderers. One who dismembered his victim. We've got breaking news on the search coming up. Let's come right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:57:45] BANFIELD: We got breaking news on the hunt for those two escaped killers in Upstate New York. "Suspicious individuals" have reportedly been spotted in the town of Willsboro, that's a 30 miles south of Dunmore in New York, it's the site of the 170 year old maximum security prison that Richard Matt and David Sweat broke out of sometime late Friday night or early Saturday morning cutting through steel and brick and metal pipes to eventually come out through a locked manhole a block away from the prison wall.

CNN's Polo Sandoval is live on the story. So what is this act of search what are they found out?

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Ashleigh this is perhaps one of the significant developments we've seen today so far. Again this act of search happening about 30 miles in South of where we are here just outside of the Clinton Correctional facility as you mentioned there, the small town of Willsboro North -- rather Willsboro New York a home to about 2,000 people there. One of the administrators who are at least supervised of that town, telling us that they are actively searching farms, fields, a very rural area at this point Ashleigh which is very similar to the other regions that we're seeing here in North whether in North New York.

The main concern here though obviously for authorities who try to followup on these reports. I should mention this is just one of several leads that have come in. Really just perhaps of all over 300 leads that have come in, in last four days since this very elaborate escape went down in the small community which is actually just standing just outside of the prison.

But again we can't tell you at this point an active search happening after reports, again these are initial reports of two suspicious individuals on just on the south of the southern edge of the small town of Willsboro New York, only about 30 miles or so from the facility of which these two individuals escaped from Ashleigh, just in case should -- of just how fluid the situation is here on the ground.

BANFIELD: All right, Polo Sandoval thank you for that and all of these on the hills of the interview that was conducted with that female prison worker apparently who knew or apparently knew those two escapee.

I want to update you as well on the breaking news that happened just moments ago. The Dirksen Senate Office Building being evacuated, we're now told that this is a bomb threat that was called in to the United States capital police.

My colleague Wolf Blitzer has been working this story with his Washington source, if he's going to bring you the very latest right now.

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