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Exclusive Interview With Two City Of Baltimore Police; New York and Vermont Officials Brief Press on Escaped Convict Manhunt. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired June 10, 2015 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: I know you sat down with the police commissioner after the riots and he has time and time again denied ever issuing that command.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Brooke. He said simply that's not true. And, you know there was a lot of things that happened in the aftermath that showed that the police department was not prepared and he acknowledged that in his interview with me a few weeks ago when I was in Baltimore. He said, you know, his officers were -- did not have the right gear at the time. You know if you remember, what happened with the riot, it began as 14-year-olds throwing rocks in a mall near a school.

BALDWIN: As school is letting out.

PEREZ: Right. Schools are letting out. And then it transform later on. And so, that's what they were dealing with. And they were, frankly, just caught unprepared. Now, we have pictures. You see, we have pictures of Baltimore police wearing some gear. So, some of them had the gear ready, others did not. And obviously, there was mistakes that were made today.

And today, I just actually just got back from Baltimore. I was in press conference head the US. Attorney Rod Robinstein and commissioner Batt and other federal law enforcement as well. They were taking down 14 member of the black gorilla gangs which is one of the gangs who has been active in Baltimore and who is behind this huge spike in violence and murder over there, Brooke.

And one of the things I asked at this press conference was the question of whether or not officers now are not doing their jobs. What exactly is at work behind the violence and whether or not officers are standing back basically because of this fear of indictments as has happened with six officers in the death of Freddie Gray. Here's what the commissioner had to say when I asked him about that today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PEREZ: Commissioner Batts, if you would address the question that keeps coming up about whether your officers are standing down. Are they not doing everything they can simply because of fear that anything they may do might end up being indicted by Miss Mosby's office? ANTHONY BATTS, COMMISSIONER, BALTIMORE POLICE: These police officers

in the last 30 to 35 days have gone through trauma. Now for people looking on TV may think that's natural and other people have gone on to other cities. Yes, police officers who have dealt with a series of issues that have taken place, and I pulled that entire western district command offline this week and we took them away to do team building, retraining, education. And what touched me is one of my officers, one of heroes of this organization, his name is Keith McNeil. Keith McNeil was shot nine times last year. He shouldn't be here today, but he's a fighter and he's strong and he is here.

Keith came too that session that we had with our officers, and he said I watched you guys on TV, and all I wanted to do was get out of my bed and go stand with my brothers and sisters on the line as you're taking bottles and he says we need you guys right now. He says my family needs you. Our city needs you. Everyone needs you right now. And that he says what he expects out of his organization is to go to the battle for the citizens of the city, and it was so touching because it didn't come from me. It didn't come from management. It came from an officer who all he wants to do is get back in the fight to protect this city.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREZ: And Brooke, what you're hearing there from Commissioner Batts is him trying to defend his police force. The officer he was talking about Keith McNeil was shot nine times by a suspect last year on St. Patrick's Day 2014. He is still alive to this day, and it's a remarkable story on its own, but what he was trying to get across is, you know, there is a lot -- obviously there's problems there in Baltimore and the police department needs some help. But he says that they there. They are standing every day doing their job and it is not exactly what you were hearing from those couple of officers that you were interviewing in the last couple of days.

BALDWIN: You know, the bottom line, I was in Maryland yesterday talking to these two guys for an hour. And I was reading my "Baltimore Sun" in the morning and above the fold story was about a 16-year-old who had been killed. There was eight and 10-year-old who have been shot over the weekend.

I mean, this is a huge, huge crime possible, you know, these officers, some of whom feel like criminals are empowered and I'm not entirely sure what the solution is, Evan. You know, covered law enforcement for a long time.

PEREZ: Yes, that's a great point. And, you know, one of the problems standing at that podium right next to him was Marilyn Mosby, the state's attorney. And, you know, it is like the elephant in the room, right? I mean, this is a couple of people that really haven't been communicating very well, and one of the problems has been that the officers, you heard it from them. They say that they don't know whether they can pursue suspects, running suspects in certain high crime neighborhoods because that's one of the crimes she charged the six officers with at first, right? And so, that's part of the issue is fixing that relationship and then going forward how to tackle the problem that the city has.

BALDWIN: We need to keep having these conversations.

Evan Perez, excellent reporting, thank you so much.

PEREZ: Thanks.

[15:34:57] BALDWIN: Next we'll take you back to upstate New York in this massive manhunt is under way for these two killers who escaped from prison now what five days ago. We are minutes away from this news conference. Both the governors of New York and Vermont are expected to speak. We'll take it live. You're watching CNN's special live coverage.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:39:19] BALDWIN: We're going to have some live pictures because we are still waiting. We are waiting to hear both the governors of New York and Vermont to speak about the latest in the manhunt for these two killers. You see their faces through their mug shots there. And this is just outside the correctional facility. This is the Clinton correctional facility in upstate New York, Dannemora, New York about 25 miles shy of that Canadian border.

These two somehow finagled a pretty phenomenal escape about five days ago involving a saw and electrical cord and some 20-pound pledge hammer. That's what we got from some of our reporting. They were able to apparently cut through a wall in their cell, head down some piping in a narrow area and pop out through a manhole, you know, cutting through a lock on the other side before leaving.

Before the break -- and we'll have more of that in just a minute, we'll move on. Before the break you heard part one of my exclusive interviews with two police officers in the city of Baltimore. They agreed to speak with me without the permission of their department. Because of that and in this attempt to allow the officers to speak candidly CNN agreed to not use their names or show their faces and we've also modified their voices.

I played for you their thoughts on the Freddie Gray's arrest and the reason behind the crime wave. But now, you are about to hear why they say they cannot trust the people in power including the state's attorney who charged their fellow officers.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[15:40:43] BALDWIN: Do you feel like the community in Baltimore respects you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, and for the most part the citizens that are law-abiding citizens, they are. They are begging for help from the police, especially now because they know what's going on.

Normal person, it's obvious, that there is a slowdown in police response. The officers are afraid to -- to do things because you have a state's attorney right now that's unpredictable, you know. It's -- you don't know what she's going to do. When she came out with this statement when the six officers were charged, she already convicted them in the public view. They have been tried and convicted in public opinion. Now everything, you know, the gag orders are trying to come out to keep the autopsy reports from coming out and keep their attorneys from speaking and the officers from speaking and, you know, it's too late for that.

BALDWIN: She stood there, I was there, steps at the war memorial and, you know, talked about how she comes from this law enforcement background, this law enforcement family up in Massachusetts. But she also did take a moment after she announced the charges, she took a moment to talk to the protesters in her city streets. Did you see that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

BALDWIN: What did you make of Marilyn Mosby that day?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I thought that it was a campaign speech and it was conduct that an impartial attorney -- she's not Freddie Gray's lawyer. She's the lawyer for the people and that campaign speech, the election is over. She already won election.

BALDWIN: Moving forward, do you feel like the state's attorney, do you feel like Marilyn Mosby has your backs?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, definitely not, no.

BALDWIN: Do you feel like Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake has your back?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She's never had our back?

BALDWIN: She's never had your backs.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.

BALDWIN: Commissioner Batts just recently spoke to you essentially saying I think I let you guys down. Let me quote him. "People think we're down. People are giving up with on us. I mean this with my heart. We need to show how f'ing good we are. I stand ready to lead you out of this. Do you trust the commissioner?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Trust is one thing. The thing is you never should have led us into it. What needs to be instituted in a leader is you have to be in the front line, and the whole command staff, this is where your leaders are. You don't sit inside a command center and command things over the radio. Things don't work like that, you know.

And -- if you want to be a leader, you need to be a leader. To gain respect of your troops you need to show that you're the first one to be able to step up and do things. And if you're not, then you're not a leader. Just because you sign the paycheck and wear the insignia on your collar and everybody salutes you and calls you sir because of your rank, doesn't make you a leader

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: I sat with those officers for an hour. We'll have more tomorrow on that.

We're back here now to pictures, seeing a little bit of movement, some of those big black cars which tells me this news conference is imminent. And in fact, we got a warning that it should be happening momentarily.

Again, just to reset in case you are just joining us. This is Dannemora, New York. This is just you can see the prison wall there, the Clinton correctional facility. And both governors of New York and Vermont, right, so if you know your geography of Vermont, just right there along the New York border to the east of New York. This is the part of New York where we are referencing. Both the governors of those states will be speaking. Why they are speaking, we are not entirely sure. Perhaps they have new information that they want to share with the public and hopes of catching these two killers.

Again, each of them has 100,000 bounty on their heads. There they are. We just need to get them to the podium, 100,000 bounty on their head or 50,000 apiece for tips leading to their arrest. So I'm just going to stop talking and let's take a listen to the governors.

[15:45:01] JOSEPH D'AMICO, SUPERINTENDENT, NEW YORK STATE POLICE: Good afternoon. I'm Superintendent Joseph D'Amico, superintendent of the New York State Police. First I would like to start by reassuring the community that we're doing all that we can to ensure their safety during this search and this investigation.

As law enforcement we're all enduring this search. We won't stop until we have these convicts captured. Today we've received more than 500 leads and we're thoroughly investigating each and every one.

That means looking behind every tree, under every rock and inside every structure until we find these men.

Today the public will have noticed an increased police presence both in the village of Dannemora and in Willsborough in Essex County. We continue to go door to door, checking homes and seasonal residences and we continue to do vehicle checks and a number of roadblocks in the area.

We have more than 450 law enforcement members working on this search. In addition to the New York State Police, we have the New York State Department of Corrections and Community Supervision, the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation, our forest rangers, FBI, U.S. Marshals, U.S. Customs and Border Protection, all working together as one team.

The New York State Police and the Vermont State Police are working hand-in-hand to secure our state's borders. One of the things that we developed during our investigation was information that there was a possibility of them fleeing towards Vermont. It was mentioned early on We've reached out; we've been hand-in-hand with the Vermont State Police o working to secure the borders and today we're just formalizing our arrangement and our agreement. We'll be able to deploy New York state troopers across the Vermont and New York state line should it be required for searches.

And again, that's if leads take us there.

In addition, we've conducted interviews with inmates, correction officers, contract employees and anyone else working here at Clinton Correctional. I won't get into specifics on how these interviews went or who was interviewed or who wasn't, but we continue to ask the public for their assistance in their investigation, looking for any suspicious activity that they may see in their communities, anything that they see that's out of the ordinary and we urge them to contact law enforcement.

We ask the public to remain vigilant. These men are of considered extremely dangerous. Please call 9-1-1 immediately if you should see these inmates. If you own a seasonal camp and you notice anything out of place when you arrive, please don't hesitate, call the police.

We want to remind the public, again, do not try to approach these men. They are extremely dangerous. If you have any information on these inmates or their escape or if you can help us in any way, please call our tipline 1-800-GIVE-TIP, G-I-V-E T-I-P. I would also like to remind the public that New York State is offering $100,000 reward for information that leads to the capture of both of these men.

I just want to thank the public for their patience. We've received hundreds of tips, not only through our tipline but through social media. We've actually taught millions contacting us to try to assist us and to get information, so please, I just ask, stay aware, report any information,, any sightings.

Now at this time it's my pleasure to introduce the colonel from the Vermont state police, Colonel Tom L'Esperance.

COL. TOM L'ESPERANCE, VERMONT STATE POLICE: Thank you. Appreciate it. I'm Tommy L'Esperance, the colonel of the state police in Vermont. I just want to thank the New York State Police, the governor's office, both in Vermont and New York for bringing us over here today, just to follow up with some information. We have troopers working along the lake, the marine division has been activated to work the lake shore along with troopers on -- in remote sections of Vermont. We're checking camps, campsites. We'll be passing out leaflets along those campsites, those public campgrounds, both state and private.

I want to thank the Vermont media in particular for keeping us so aware in Vermont as to what has been developing here in New York.

At this point, the governor.

GOV. PETER SHUMLIN, D-VERMONT: Thank you, Colonel L'Esperance. Thank you Superintendent D'Amico, thank you, Colonel L'Esperance. I'm

also glad to be here with my commissioner of public safety, Commissioner Flynn. Most importantly I'm delighted to be here with Governor Cuomo of New York in New York.

Governor Cuomo and I are committed to doing everything that we can to keeping the folks in Vermont and New York safe as we hunt down these two inmates that are clearly dangerous people.

Governor Cuomo called me this morning and informed me that although we don't know where they are or where they have gone, that there's some indication that one of their destinations, the destination they might have indicated was the state of Vermont, so we have taken a number of actions together to ensure that our law enforcement community has no obstacles to apprehending these two criminals.

I have directed my state police to do the following five things.

One, we are to have set a -- set a Vermont State Police liaison to the command post in New York, so that we are working seamlessly to move information.

Two, the Vermont State Police technical team is ready to respond to all available tips from the public and, as Governor Cuomo will tell you, we need all the tips from the public that might be out there. We need the public to help us solve this challenge. We also will be ensuring that our entire Vermont State Police team is ready for action, should they be needed.

Three, public awareness: we're going to be doing public awareness campaigns to inform members of the public who might not be connected to Internet, might not be watching television, who these folks are, what they look like. We'll be doing that in our state parks, we'll be doing that in remote campgrounds, in areas we think where they may well be headed.

Four, we have deployed our Vermont State Police marine assets on Lake Champlain and obviously we have deployed them from our headquarters in St. Albans, Williston and the New Haven barracks.

Fifth, our ANC troops are going to be doing direct patrols along the lake borders.

And finally, the Vermont Crime Information Center is in direct contact with our New York State Intelligence Center for all kinds of information sharing that we hope will be helpful.

I just want to say to Vermonters, this is no time to panic, it's a time to be sensible. If you see suspicious people, don't go near them, call law enforcement. Lock your doors. Make sure that you're being vigilant and let's work together to get these two dangerous men locked up once again.

I want to turn it over now to Governor Cuomo. I don't think there's a governor who is more concerned about finding these two folks than Governor Cuomo, because he cares deeply about the welfare and the safety of the people of New York. So we're in this as a team. I'm grateful to him for reaching out to me, to working so cooperatively, and now I give you now the great governor of the state of New York, Governor Cuomo.

[15:52:38] GOV. ANDREW CUOMO, D-NEW YORK: Thank you, thank you.

Thank for very much.

Thank you very much. Let me begin by thanking all the law enforcement that has been working very long and hard. It's been a long few days, the state police of New York have done a great job, the local police, Clinton County, Franklin County, our federal partners, the FBI has been extraordinarily helpful and the coordination among all these different law enforcement agencies has been really something to behold.

Governor Shumlin, I can't thank him enough for his responsiveness and his commissioner of public safety and the Vermont State Police. We have information that would suggest that Vermont was discussed as a possible location and the governor was very generous in saying that he would be fully cooperative.

Governor Shumlin has always been a good neighbor to the state of New York. We do a lot together. A lot of times it's good news and it's positive news and this time, unfortunately, it is a less attractive undertaking, but no doubt a very necessary undertaking.

We need to find these escapees. They are dangerous men, they are killers. They are murderers. There's no reason to believe they wouldn't do it again. They're going to be more desperate than ever. So we're doing everything we can. It's a top priority to find them and to bring them back.

If they are headed towards Vermont, as you heard from Governor Shumlin, Vermont is engaged and Vermont is mobilized and we are working hand in glove and we will be coordinating several times a day to make sure that every lead we have, every piece of information is shared.

From the point of view of public safety, these people are dangerous. They're dangerous to New York residents and they're dangerous to residents of the state of Vermont. So this kind of coordination and partnership makes total sense.

We're -- also been in contact with our other surrounding states, but again, as we had information that would suggest this -- Vermont as a possible destination, we're making a special effort.

The only way to pursue this type of investigation is to follow every lead that you have and follow every lead as if this is the one that's going to break the case. So whether it's traveling to Hillsborough, or doing house-to-house searches in Dannemora or coordinating with Vermont, if that tip turns out to be true, you just follow each and every one with all the energy and all the vim that you can muster. And that's what we're doing. At the same time, we have employees from the prison that are being

interviewed. And that is a very consistent exercise that we are going through. The media has reported on one woman in particular who is a subject, who's being interviewed and that's correct.

But we are also working through everything we've been discussing the past few days. Other employees, contractors, still working the investigation how power tools were acquired. All that is ongoing. So to the extent there are lessons to be learned here, fine. We want to learn those lessons.

And we're going down both tracks simultaneously. First track, find the escapees, find them before they do any harm, get them back behind bars. That's where they belong.

Second, how did this happen, are there any lessons to learn, any systems to change to make sure that it doesn't happen again.

Let me end where I began, I wan to thank Governor Shumlin for being a good neighbor. I want to thank the people of Vermont for their help.

I want to urge the people of Vermont to take this seriously and, as you heard, report any suspicious behavior. These are not people to be trifled with. This is not just another prison, Clinton Correctional. This is one of the prisons in the state of New York that holds the most difficult inmates. So trust me, these men are nothing to be trifled with.

Again, I thank the governor. I thank you, State Police. I thank his commissioner of public safety. Any questions for me or the governor or the State Police, please feel free.

QUESTION: Governor Cuomo, what does it say to you that these men have still not been caught?

CUOMO: It says we have to continue to follow every lead and work very hard to find the men. As we discussed initially, it's very possible that they had a several-hour head start on us. We found out that they were gone in the early morning hours, approximately 5:30. They could have been -- they could have escaped as early as midnight, 11 o'clock.

So they had a several-hour head start to begin with. We've had an exhaustive effort, as you know; it's not for lack of trying. But we're going to redouble our efforts and we're going to keep looking until we find them.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) that they may never be caught?

CUOMO: I'm confident we will find them. The only question is when.

QUESTION: Governor Shumlin, can you confirm that these men may have had a plan to go to a cab in Vermont?

SHUMLIN: I'm going to be careful what I confirm, because this is an ongoing investigation. What I can tell you is that we have information that suggests that they thought that New York was going to be hot, Vermont would be cooler, in terms of law enforcement and that a camp in Vermont might be a better place to be than New York.

QUESTION: Do you know where in Vermont?

SHUMLIN: We do not.

QUESTION: Can you speak to what's being done -- (INAUDIBLE) New York, what's being done, for example, (INAUDIBLE) stepped up at all, what about places, different borders (INAUDIBLE)?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was contacted immediately after the breakthrough, through e-mails with New York State Police and their information there at nisic (ph). And immediately we deployed troopers up to the Grand Isle (ph) and down to Charlotte (ph), patrolling those ferry areas. We had a tactical team deployed up in the islands just in case there was a sighting that would come up in that area.

We've been on this, working hand in hand with New York State Police and sharing all the information, all the relevant information that speaks towards Vermont. Especially we have a trooper that's deployed here now to their command center as well.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)?

D'AMICO: We are still searching in that area. The tip that we were following up was a sighting on two individuals who could have fit the description, not confirmed that they were our escapees. But out of due caution, we deployed and we did a pretty thorough search, which continues, but no confirmation that they were our escapees.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) from Vermont on some interviews with insiders and employees, (INAUDIBLE)?

D'AMICO: I'll just say that during the course of the investigation that we did develop information that had been discussed by these men prior to their escape, the possibility of going to Vermont and finding a location in Vermont. I'm not prepared to go into where it came from.

QUESTION: Governor Cuomo (OFF-MIKE)

D'AMICO: No, I mean, we -- I think the governor confirmed that. We have spoken to the female that's -- that the media has widely reported on.

Obviously, she -- she was befriended or she befriended the inmates and may have had some sort of role in assisting them. But I'm not prepared to go into details on that.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

D'AMICO: I'm not prepared to go into those details.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Way over there on the left.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Young lady over here.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

D'AMICO: Yes.

I mean, we're going on the premise that we don't know that they have left the state or that they have left the area. And we take it just as serious the search in this area around here as we are in the Willsboro area, in the Vermont or anything else.

Until we have them in custody, we're not going discount any of it. As the governor said, they had -- they could have had a pretty good lead on us, but we can't confirm whether they took advantage of that or not.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

D'AMICO: We take every one of these tips seriously. You never know which one is going to be the one that leads you -- we're doing two parts of this case.

We have an investigative piece that's kind of delving into all the aspects before and after. And there's the physical search. It's mostly what you see here. And every possible sighting we follow up on, every piece of information we follow up on, I would just say that none of them have developed the cause to put us -- put them in custody yet, so we are still working hard.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) vehicle or that they are still on foot?

D'AMICO: I have no information on where they are or what they're doing, I will be honest with you.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

D'AMICO: I'm sorry?

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

D'AMICO: I can't speak on their corrections treatment. I mean, again, it's been just what you read in the media, that they were model employees -- model prisoners.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

D'AMICO: We have plenty of resources, between New York State Police, New York State DOCCS, Environmental Protection, the FBI, who are always tremendous partners to us, and Customs and Border Protection.

We have a lot of people on the ground. We're in various areas through the state. If we needed to, we have a very big state police and we will bring in whatever resources are necessary to be effective.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, guys. Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.