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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Getaway Possibly Foiled by Panic Attack; Prison Break Stats; Red River Rising in Louisiana; Baltimore Cops Talk Candidly to CNN. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired June 10, 2015 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[12:00:11] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Two possible sightings of those two escaped killers. Upstate New Yorkers growing more fearful by the hour on day five of a desperate search.

Also this hour, he was never even charged with a crime. The tragic case of a young man who took his own life after spending three years behind bars at New York's notorious Rikers Island simply waiting for a trial. Never actually found guilty of a crime, we should say.

And Shreveport, Louisiana, on red alert as the Red River keeps on rising. And the water has not been this high in 70 years. Amazing pictures out of Shreveport.

Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield, and welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

So much had to go so right for two killers in order to break out of their fortress like prison in upstate New York. But it's one thing that investigators now believe went wrong, almost laughably wrong, that could end up being the inmates' undoing.

Midway through a fifth day of searching for former cellmates Richard Matt and David Sweat, the focus remains on a prison employee named Joyce Mitchell. According to a source familiar with the investigation, Mitchell apparently was set to be the getaway driver, the person to pick up Matt and Sweat when they crawled out of their manhole, and then they were supposed to have a driver to take them to places unknown.

But that did not happen. Instead, the source says Mitchell went to a hospital with a panic attack instead. At which point two extremely dangerous men most likely felt panic themselves, which most likely turned to desperation, which made them even more dangerous, likely, than before. A former accomplice of Matt's in the kidnapping and killing and dismembering of a New York businessman describes Matt as "evil, cunning and a master manipulator."

But the opposite seems to be true of Joyce Mitchell, says her son, Tobey, to NBC News.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TOBEY MITCHELL, SON OF PRISON EMPLOYEE: She is not the kind of person that's going to risk her life or other people's lives to let these guys escape from prison.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's a report out there that your mom went to the emergency room with a panic attack. Did that happen?

MITCHELL: Yes. She was, in fact, in the hospital that evening. I don't know the exact details. I just know that she was having severe chest pains.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: My CNN colleague, Polo Sandoval, is on the case. He's live in Dannemora.

So, Polo, she is not the only person who's been questioned with regard to these two escapees. Tell me a little bit about who else may be questioned within that prison and also the cell phone that she had and what kind of evidence it has given to the authorities.

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ashleigh, to answer that first question, really, nearly every -- really employee at the Clinton Correctional Facility was interviewed by investigators. But the one that stands out the most is that individual that you mentioned there, Joyce Mitchell. And this report now, or this working theory that she may have agreed to be the getaway driver is one potential break in the case. The other is that another source now telling CNN that her cell phone was used to make phone calls to one of those two fugitives, being Richard Matt, or at least individuals that were linked to that fugitive.

But what's interesting here, Ashleigh, is we don't know exactly who made those phone calls quite yet or when and it's very important that we point out also that, of course, no charges have been filed against Joyce Mitchell.

Meanwhile, back here on the ground, what's interesting, too, is that this investigation and this massive manhunt is going right back to where it all started Saturday morning, and that's Dannemora, New York. Just a few moments ago, in fact, we have some new images that were shot just minutes ago showing some of these heavily armed SWAT team members, New York State Police, now going door to door in this small community that essentially sits in the shadow of this correctional institution. They're going door to door. They want to make sure they check in with neighbors, making sure that they did not miss anything. New York State Police saying there wasn't any actual lead that's bringing them back here, they simply want to retrace the steps that they made early on in the investigation and pretty much retrace the steps that were made by Matt and Sweat.

But if you look back, step back for a second here, Ashleigh, and look at the situation, the fact that they're back at square one here, at least back where it all started, could suggest that none of these leads or this information that's come in, is truly strong enough to lead them in a specific direction, Ashleigh. BANFIELD: All right, Polo, keep an eye on things for us, let us know if any other tips or sightings come in, in the next hour and, of course, throughout the day as well. Polo Sandoval reporting live for us in upstate New York.

[12:05:03] And my next guest is a global privacy expert who literally wrote the book on dropping out of sight, "How to Disappear." But long before he co-authored the "How to Disappear" book, Frank Ahearn tracked down fugitives and witnesses and celebrities who generally were not very good at lying low. He joins me live now via Skype from Madrid.

Frank, thanks so much for being with us.

We found some pretty interesting data on inmates who have escaped from New York prisons between 2002 and 2013 and the stats are pretty fascinating. Thirty inmates escaped, 18 of them were caught in six hours, 11 were caught in 24 hours, one was caught in three days. If you do the math, it means 100 percent were not successful. So already, according to those stats, Matt and Sweat are the exception. But do you think they will be the rule?

FRANK AHEARN, GLOBAL PRIVACY EXPERT: Thanks for having me.

No, I don't think they'll be the rule. I think, you know, they were lucky getting out of prison, but most inmates don't think about what are they doing after the fact, where are they going, got to have money. So they're resourceful inside but not on the outside as much and that's their downfall.

BANFIELD: And often times we do see pairs or groups of escapees. But do they tend to stick together? Is it better for them to stick together to support one another in a very difficult time for them or is it better for them to separate so that there aren't sightings of two guys?

AHEARN: It's probably better that they separate. But one of the problems is, one person probably has more resources than the other person, which that can create conflict between them as well. So -- but, you know, being escaped and on the run, it's kind of a crap shoot sometimes because they missed their opportunity with the getaway car. So they're just, I think, grasping at straws now.

BANFIELD: And I've read some of your material and you really hit the nail on the head when you say they don't have credit cards, they more than likely have to commit crimes just to be able to get money to eat or to stay safely or to function, which makes them very, very dangerous. And it makes me wonder if there isn't possibly someone right now who is being held by these two because clearly if they commit a robbery and just keep going that would be reported.

AHEARN: That's an unfortunate possibility. And the truth is, you know, when you're on the run or when you're disappearing, money is vital. And if you don't have resource or a pocketful of money, you're going to have to commit crimes. And these guys can't take a bus, they can't take a plane, so they're going to probably steal a car or, you know, carjack somebody. That will -- that's probably what's going to happen.

BANFIELD: When do the odds tip in their favor if there is such a thing regarding the time window and the time that keeps ticking with them on the run?

AHEARN: I don't think (INAUDIBLE) in their favor because I think that they're such dangerous individuals that law enforcement will be so aggressive with them. And if they're still within the area, time is working against them. It's just only a matter of time before they're caught. But I don't think there's a long-term situation for these guys being on the run.

BANFIELD: Well, we'll see if they join the 30 for 30 stat in New York. Frank Ahearn, thanks so much for being with us. I really appreciate it.

AHEARN: Thank you.

BANFIELD: And coming up next, homes underwater, families on the run as the mighty Red River becomes more mighty by the moment. We're going to take you live to Louisiana.

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[12:11:50] BANFIELD: Remember all that flooding that we showed you in Texas and Oklahoma last month? A lot of that water in the pictures from before are here now. That water made its way to Louisiana via the Red River, which has not been this high since 1945. Just look at your screen. Remarkable, remarkable flooding.

I want to take you there right now with CNN meteorologist Jennifer Gray, who is standing by live in Bossier City.

It's just unbelievable. This is literally the runoff from the disaster that we were reporting on last week.

JENNIFER GRAY, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Yes, that in combination with just other very heavy rains that we've gotten across Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, all of those smaller rivers and creeks eventually feed into the Red River, and the Red River will eventually feed into the Mississippi River.

But just look behind me and give you an idea of what we're dealing with. This water -- normally the Red River isn't even a hundred yards across in this area. These homes are built right along the Red River. And residents have been out here round the clock, 24 hours a day, with sandbags building walls around their home. I have never seen anything like it. They have passed out about half a million sandbags for residents to get out here and try to save their homes.

BANFIELD: Wow.

GRAY: You can see some people weren't so lucky. Either they weren't able to save their home, they weren't able to get enough sandbags out in time and so they had to just evacuate and leave their home. People -- I don't know if you can see in the back, that pump, even though you put sandbags around your home, water still seeps through, so people have been pumping the water out.

Look at this home over here if we pan around a little more. So you can see homes still under construction now underwater. And then if you look a little bit more, that's the levee, Ashleigh. And the thing about this is, these homes are built on the river side of the levee. And you say, that's crazy, why would you built on the river side of the levee? Well, they're actually not in the flood zone. They're built higher than the flood zone and so they thought they were safe. Like you said, we've never seen a flood like this since the mid-'40s. Most people that have lived here have never seen the river this high.

Of course, we did take a ride along in a boat down the river earlier this morning with a sheriff. We talked to a homeowner, Dusty Williams, and he told us he's been working around the clock. Here's what he had to say.

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DUSTY WILLIAMS, HOMEOWNER: Every time we get another forecast, we've had to come back in and add more sandbags to it. And we've been working 24 hours a day with friends and family. I can't be more thankful for them to help us and there's no way we could do it all day, all night by ourselves.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRAY: Now, Ashleigh, we talked to the sheriff this morning. We are expected to get a little bit more rain at the end of the week and the weekend. He said he's not really worried about that. It's not the afternoon storms you get this time of year in this area. He said the worst-case scenario would be if something tropical came up out of the gulf and just dumped eight to 10 inches of rain. That's when they would really have a problem. Of course, good news is, that's not in the near future, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: No, and I just -- I cannot believe what I'm reading. With all that sunshine and beautiful weather behind you, they're expecting this flood stage to be as bad until the end of June, or at least this being above flood stage until the end of June.

Well, our hearts go out to those people. Jennifer, keep us posted on how they're doing. Jennifer Gray live for us in Bossier City, Louisiana.

[12:15:04] What is behind Baltimore's deadliest month in four decades and how have police officers' jobs changed since Freddie Gray died in custody? The inside story from two Baltimore officers who tell it like it is under anonymity.

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BANFIELD: We still don't know if a certain Texas police officer is going to face charges after that bizarre and, frankly, rough handling of a bunch of teenagers at a pool party. But one thing is for sure, he is not a police officer anymore. Former Corporal Eric Casebolt of the McKinney, Texas, police department, handed over his gun and his badge yesterday. He resigned even while the incident is being investigated. Hardly a surprise. Even his police chief calls what is he, quote, "indefensible." Casebolt was the cop who pulled out his weapon last week, responding to a call that kids were fighting at a community swimming pool. One young woman who was there says some adults in the neighborhood started the fight in the first place.

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TATYANA RHODES, HOSTED THE POOL PARTY: In front of the pool they were stating racial slurs to me and my friends saying, go back to your section (ph) eight (ph) homes and cursing us out saying --

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN: And these were adults?

RHODES: The "f" word and things such as that.

[12:20:02] ROMANS: Adult women were saying this to you, were confronting you?

RHODES: Yes. Yes, adult women.

ROMANS: And what did -- what did you say? What -- I mean, it's just unacceptable. What did you say?

RHODES: That's what -- I was basically saying that's not right. You shouldn't -- no one should be treated this way. You shouldn't be talking to anyone like that. That's disrespectful.

ROMANS: And this is when things started to spiral downward, you think? This is when those adults asked security to call and get you guys out of the pool?

RHODES: No. That's when the lady attacked me. That's when both of them started to attack me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So how big a role race played in the fight before the police showed up and then, of course, after is not yet settled. But one boy who shot the video of the police response said that the cops were yelling at and going after black teens more aggressively than they were going after the white teenagers.

I want to take you to Baltimore now where last month was the deadliest crime month in more than 40 years. And here's how some police officers are explaining that trend. They say they're letting the bad guys win. That's pretty hard to hear, words actually from a policeman.

But a couple of still-active Baltimore cops talked exclusively to CNN's Brooke Baldwin and gave us a very candid look at what's going on in their department these days, especially since the in-custody death of Freddie Gray and the violent protests that followed. They say they're being hold to hang back and not to be aggressive or proactive. They say they feel abandoned by their leaders and that they're scared. These policemen are still on the force, so we agreed to hide their faces. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR, "NEWSROOM": What are people not getting right your opinion about what happened?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That this was an intentional act by the police officers. I don't think so. I don't think it was -- there was any intent to do -- there was no malicious -- there was no malice from the officers.

BALDWIN: Officer two?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Obviously, I mean, the officers knew that they were being videotaped. That's the biggest thing. You can't tell me --

BALDWIN: Via cell phone by a --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: By a cell phone. By a witness.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: By a cell phone, of course. And even not being videotaped, you have six officers that are involved in this, the two officers that were placing him inside the wagon. And a normal person, you would think, there's nobody, especially being a law enforcement officer, that you're going to jeopardize your life, your career, your families, your friends and everybody else to -- for what? To, you know, to throw an extra punch? Throw an extra kick? There was no physical violence that was involved in this. He was non-compliant.

BALDWIN: There was no physical violence? I mean, when you look at the video and you see the takedown, is that all -- you know --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was a takedown, which is -- and like I said before, it's force has to be met with quality force. You know, if -- per say you start, you know, throwing punches at me, I will defend myself. It's not my duty or my job to retreat and let you be in control of the situation and let it escalate. We're there to deescalate things. And he was placed in restraints. The situation was deescalated. He was placed inside the transport vehicle. Whatever transpired after that, only Eddie (ph) Gray knows and perhaps the other suspect that was in the wagon, which he had no view of exactly what, you know, the suspect was doing inside the vehicle.

BALDWIN: I think people would take issue with -- and here's the issue with a lot of these stories. There's video, but it doesn't cover the entire confrontation, right? So when you talk about equal force meeting equal force, when you watch that snippet, it certainly doesn't appear that Freddie Gray is exerting the same amount of force as those police officers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're correct. And, you know, our training and expertise, we are trained to be able to deescalate things before they escalate. So there was no deadly force that had to have been utilized at that point.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BANFIELD: One Baltimore police official says morale in the city's police force is low. The commissioner insists that most of his officers are still fully engaged.

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COMMISSIONER ANTHONY BATTS, BALTIMORE POLICE: I've seen officers out on calls. I've been out there on calls. I've seen them engaged. Could you ask me if all of them are doing the utmost? That's a question that they are -- they're going to have to answer. And what I put to them, again, is remember why you do this job. Remember those little kids that I just talked to. Remember that nine-year-old little baby on Memorial Day who got shot

being in the middle of the street. We don't get to pass up bad guys. We don't get to let bad guys walking around our streets with guns.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: And you can watch Brooke Baldwin's entire interview with these officers on CNN "Newsroom," which gets underway at 2:00 Eastern right here.

[12:25:09] Coming up next, he spent his high school years behind bars. Three years simply waiting to go to trial. But the worst was yet to come after the charges were actually dropped.

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BANFIELD: Got some breaking news just in to CNN. If you've been wondering about those Americans that have been deployed overseas in Iraq to train and advise but not to serve in combat roles, we've got about 3,100 over there right now and they're about to be joined by about 450 friends. More combat troops announced by the White House just a few moments ago, in fact, to bolster those efforts. These guys, though, will be going to eastern Anbar province and, once again, this is how they word it, "to improve the capabilities and effectiveness of partners on the ground." Keeping real careful to mention not combat roles, training and advisory roles.

The biggest effort here? Well, it's the one you constantly hear, to degrade and destroy ISIS terrorist groups. The government calls them ISIL. Everyone else calls them ISIS. But you know who they are and you've seen their videos. So, there you go, 450 additional U.S. troops on their way.

[12:30:00] Like most human endeavors, our criminal justice system, well, it is unfortunately rife with mistakes. There are lots. The system's flawed. It happens. But when mistakes are made in our legal system, there really can be some tragic consequences as well.

I want you to think about this young man I'm about to talk about, 16- year-old Kalief Browder.