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New Significant Leads in the Search for Escaped Convicts. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired June 11, 2015 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:00] JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Solid leads that we've heard of so far at the very least within the past few days. This according to officials who have been briefed on the situation.

Officials are confident, Carol, that dogs -- sniffing dogs have picked up on some sort of a scent of these two particular inmates. I just want to make sure that we get this language particularly straight. This according to a state official and another official as well. Apparently dogs picked up on some sort of a scent about three miles located away from the prison. This, of course, explains why you now see this roadblock behind me, the section of 374 that's been blocked off.

This according to a state official and another source. They believe that a spot where these two inmates may have been hiding out was found, was sighted. They believe that they found a boot or a shoe imprint, also food wrappers.

The big question, Carol, is how long ago possibly these two escapees were at that particular point. That is still unknown, but this is still a very significant lead that investigators have at this point -- Carol.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: So just let me get this straight, so the dogs picked up the scent three miles from the prison, and there were some signs, there was some sort of bedding there at one time?

CARROLL: That is correct. Some sort of sign that this is the spot where they believe that these two inmates, Richard Matt and David Sweat, were bedding down for a period of time. Again, apparently finding food wrappers there, also finding either a boot or a shoe print. You know that you've got dogs out here who are trained bloodhounds to sniff in these particular areas. Apparently they picked up on some sort of a scent. This could be why we've seen this area of 374, Route 374, that has been shut down while this investigation continues.

But again, still the big question, how long ago if this was, in fact, these two escaped inmates, how long ago were they there? Were there plans for them to come back? Still a lot of questions there, but still a very significant lead -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. You stay right there, Jason Carroll. I'm going to bring in CNN law enforcement analyst Tom Fuentes, he's also a former FBI assistant director. So, Tom, I don't know how much you know about dogs, but could the

scent remain there since last Friday when these men escaped?

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: That's a good question, Carol, and I've had over the years experienced with dogs, positive and negative, so -- but usually something like that if they lit up on any kind of bedding or something that would be a strong scent, obviously if you slept on some kind of bedding, that would leave a strong scent for the dogs. I don't know how long that would last.

I don't know given the weather conditions, the strong rains that they've had, many of the nights since their escape, you know, how long that scent would be positive. You know, and again, as Jason mentioned, we don't know, they could have been in that -- on that mattress the first night and then move on, although it seems likely that as their escape was discovered and more resources arrived in the region that whatever movement they were going to have away from that prison, they needed to do it the first night right away, get out of that area, even if it was only 10 or 15 miles in the woods away. At least get more than three miles.

So it would surprise me that they chose to stay in bedding that close knowing that there would be so much of a search area around that prison, but at this point, you know, anything is possible with these guys.

COSTELLO: Yes. Anything is possible.

I'd like to welcome our viewers from around the world before I ask you the next question, Tom. But Jason Carroll also mentioned they found food wrappers. So I guess they were prepared because everybody has been wondering how are they eating? Where are they going to the bathroom? What are they drinking? I mean, how are they surviving?

FUENTES: Well, all good questions and that's not going to last them very long if they have candy bars or some other type of food like that that maybe they stocked up on from the cafeteria in the prison and put in that guitar case that they're talking about that they were carrying or put in their pockets. You know, obviously that would sustain them for a very short period of time. You need shelter as much as you need any kind of candy bar, and you need water first.

So you can only live so long without water, and it's not very long. You can live a few more days or weeks even without food, but the combination of all of the above, shelter, food, water, especially given the conditions that you would have in that part of New York late at night where it's still getting in the 20s at night, that's conditions where you would get hypothermia and risk of death. It's cold enough to be troublesome if you're out without shelter.

COSTELLO: Yes. Because we're talking, you know, they're right up against the Canadian border there, so it's a little cooler than it is down here.

FUENTES: Right. COSTELLO: Jason Carroll, so they've closed a major highway in upstate

New York. Police seem to be looking everywhere. We got a report this morning that the men were spotted in Philadelphia.

[10:05:02] CARROLL: Yes, I mean, look. I mean, this so much reminds me of the Eric Frein fugitive situation and I know you remember that. He was missing and on the run for a long period of time, for several weeks, and there were all sorts of suspected sightings of him that came through, but if you listen to what New York's governor was saying he brought up a very good point.

He said, look, when you're dealing with such two dangerous men, any single lead that you have, you have to follow up on it as if that might be the lead that leads you to what you need to get to. And so that's what they're doing here. But again, this particular information that we're getting now sounds like it's the most solid piece of information that we've had. It's more -- is it a direct sighting? No.

But when you have dogs out there that are trained to sniff for something like this, that have keyed in on something, keyed in on a particular site, when they're finding evidence like they're finding, food wrappers, things of that nature, a boot, a possible footprint, and then when you've got a state official and another source also weighing in on this information, using the word that -- confident that perhaps that these dogs have honed in on a scent.

I mean, that's positive steps. And so that really gives something investigators solid to lead on. Of course, there is still that big question, how long ago -- if they were there, how long ago were they're there? Were they there Saturday? Were they there Sunday? Was it Monday? Was it Tuesday? Was it last night? These are the questions that they're going to have to try and find out -- Carol.

COSTELLO: And yes, Tom. Just because they found -- the dogs picked up the scent in the woods, I mean, we still don't know where those prisoners went from there. They still could have gotten ahold of a car somehow. We just don't know, right?

FUENTES: Right. They could still do all of that, and they could still be a long distance away from this location. I would, you know, be very interested in the location of the boot print. Was it in a place where it was somewhat sheltered from the weather because, again, you have had pretty strong downpours of rain over the several nights since the escape where a boot print might have gotten washed away by now unless it was made very recently, last night or very soon after the last rainfall, and in a position where maybe a future rainfall wouldn't completely wash it away.

So that's, you know, something to look at and see where is that print, how could it have been kept in place there without washing away as well as the other stuff. If they find a mattress and it's just sitting out in the open air, you know, you wonder about that also. You wonder whether or not they came across somebody's trash and on purpose left their scent and then took off to create false leads. We just don't know. These guys are cunning. They're smart. Essentially could be cornered animals if they're

approached. It's a very difficult situation and we don't know how smart they really were at the end of the day.

COSTELLO: True. OK. I want to bring in former NYPD detective Gil Alba.

Hi, Gil.

GIL ALBA, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE: How are you?

COSTELLO: Good. So the fact that the dogs picked up a scent, does that change how police are searching at this moment, do you think?

ALBA: Yes, I would say that. You know, when these leads come in and tips come in, there's always one that's right on the head and tells you exactly that this is the position that you should be looking, and not only the dog but just all the information we got and how far could they really have gone? Yes, they could have gotten into a car and drove away but this is a manhunt against -- you know, to find these guys. So they're going to bring a lot of police, a lot of equipment, everything looking for these guys right now.

Personally, I don't really think they got that far so I think they're going to find them eventually so they really have to do a search but, you know, as dangerous as those guys are, they can go into a house and just, you know, hide inside somebody's house, meaning they could take those people hostage and hide in the house for a period of time.

COSTELLO: OK. I want to go back to Jason Carroll, because you talked to -- let me get this straight -- the fiancee of the son of Joyce Mitchell, this prison worker who supposedly helped these men in some way.

Jason Carroll is gone? All right. Jason Carroll is gone. So I'll pose this question to you, Tom Fuentes. So Joyce Mitchell, this prison worker, supposedly she changed her mind in providing these men a car. So what would be their next step do you suppose in getting transportation to get away from this area? Because wouldn't that be the first thing they'd want to do, get as far away as possible?

FUENTES: I would think so. I mean, they might have had a couple of strategies here once the ride wasn't waiting for them when they popped open that manhole cover. You know, they could have decided that let's just stay close and hunker down and wait until the intense manpower deployment subsides and maybe in some time be able to move on.

That would have been a really poor strategy if they actually did that because they're not going to be able to move around and again nobody is going to -- they're not going to be able to order room service to be fed and get shelter if they do something like that. So I think Gil's point about -- that the strong possibility that they either found shelter somewhere close or found somebody's wheels to steal to have transportation is very likely.

[10:10:12] If you recall, the Los Angeles police officer manhunt for Christopher Dorner a couple of years ago ended up getting into a home, a vacation home where the people weren't supposed to be there, and was within a mile of the police command post almost for a week before he was discovered, and that was because the family came home unexpectedly and he didn't hurt them surprisingly, but he did take their car. And that's what led to his capture within a few hours after that when he was spotted.

So that's a possibility that if these guys are in the area there, they're in somebody's home, and hopefully they've accounted for every family, every resident, every occupied home that someone could be in, they could easily be in one of those homes right now and just -- again in that home if they had food, shelter, weapons, whatever they needed, they could stay in place there for a long time.

COSTELLO: So, Gil, police officers are checking every home. How does that go down? What do police officers say? Because I would -- I would suspect if you have two dangerous men hiding in your house and they have one of your family members maybe, right, you don't want to say anything to those police officers.

So how do they determine whether the men are actually in the house or not?

ALBA: Well, this is one of the reasons why you need some kind of training for that and also training on how to search the house or even come in the house because knocking on the door and asking a 7-year-old kid, are you OK and then just leaving is not going to do it. You're asking an adult. So you have to ask to go in and look and have permission to search the house. And that will tell you right away, you know, what you can do and what you can't do.

So that's one of the ways of trying to get -- you literally have to almost go in the house and get permission from the owners to go in. So that's one other thing. Regarding them being around, you know, I think that their whole plan regarding a car and pickup and all that fell apart right from the beginning because she went to the hospital with some kind of chest pains or something and probably chickened out of this whole thing.

So I think they were left stranded and that's why they're not that far. The driver of the car to get out of there with all these checkpoints and all that is not that easy either. And just being on the road and walking down the road is not that easy because somebody is going to see you. So I think that it's a matter of time, but you know, the matter of time means that we're hoping that these guys do not do any harm to anybody else and that's why we're really trying to get them.

COSTELLO: I hope not. So for those viewers who are just joining us, dogs have picked up these escapees' scent three miles from the prison. I want to head back out to Jason Carroll.

Jason, just tell our viewers the latest information that you have.

CARROLL: Right. Now, again, this is coming from a state official, also another source, basically saying about three miles from where the prison is located they are confident that dogs picked up on the scent of these two inmates. They found a particular site where they believe these two inmates were bedding down for a period of time, unknown when that time was. They believe that they found either a boot or a footprint there.

In addition to that, food wrappers would seem to indicate that these men had been there for a period of time. What is unclear, Carol, is how long these men had been there, had been bedding down in this rural area right off of Route 374. Behind me what you see is a detour because this section of Route 374 has been shut down ever since last night. That's when the suspicious activity sort of came in. That's when the shutdown happened of about a seven-mile stretch of Route 374.

Just to give the lay of the land, we're about seven miles east of where the prison is. Again, this section has been shut down since last night. That's when New York state police came out warning residents in the area to stay inside. If they had exterior lights on, to keep these lights on. And in addition to keep their doors locked. But this is a very significant lead or what could be a very significant lead for investigators who are trying to find these two men, the fact that these dogs had honed in and had found a scent and had found this particular site in this rural area from Route 374 where these men may have been.

The big question though, Carol, is how long ago were they there? Were they there Saturday? Were they there Sunday? Could it have been Monday? Could it have been last night? That question at this point still unanswered -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Back to Tom Fuentes for just a second. You know, usually when criminals escape prison, they're caught within one or two days. These men have been missing since, we believe, last Friday night. So what does that say about these men and where they could be?

FUENTES: The timeline, Carol, for people that escape and run off like that and become fugitives varies depending on the circumstances of the escape. You know, if somebody preplans to be gone, they preposition money and clothes and other things, then it can take 19 years like Whitey Bulger, but if somebody has an opportunity to just run out the door that's left unlocked or to overpower a hospital employee or one guard and run out the door and aren't prepared for it, that's a different circumstance.

[10:15:16] This one they may have done all the planning in the world for what they were going to do when they got out and it all could have fallen apart if the ride that was supposed to show up and pick them up didn't show up for whatever reason, whoever was supposed to be at that prison at that night to get them. If that person didn't arrive and that's why they're on foot, then they weren't planning for this.

They weren't planning to be survivalists trying to live off the land under harsh circumstances. So that would change everything, and then I would expect them to be close at hand, not too far away, and, you know, captured within some period of time here. Again, Christopher Dorner in Los Angeles in the San Bernardino Mountains found residence. And one question I would have for the authorities, when they did their

house-to-house search in all of these various cabins that people have out in the wooded areas, if the door was locked, did they break in? Did they actually go inside every residence and search it or did they just -- the door was locked, they just moved on? Because that's critical here.

COSTELLO: Interesting. Interesting. Let's go back to Jason Carroll.

Jason, do you know the answer to that question?

CARROLL: Short answer, no. I mean, you know, in terms of what investigators are giving out, you know, they're being very cautious about the information that they release. This information that we're now receiving, again, still not coming from New York state police. This is coming from a state official and from another source.

He raises a good point, and there have been calls for residents who live in this particular area, many of whom have vacation homes, to come out and check those homes and to make sure that they are as they should be.

Another interesting point, though, that was just raised, and that was about the getaway. There's been a lot of speculation, some reports out there about how these two men were going to emerge from the manhole and apparently some sort of a getaway car. Many of those questions directed at Joyce Mitchell. She is an employee of the prison, and there are allegations that perhaps in some way she was supposed to be the getaway person.

She was going to be waiting for them outside that manhole just about a block away from the prison, and then for some reason at the last minute got cold feet, decided not to do that. Again, that's an allegation that's out there. She was questioned this weekend. I did speak with her daughter-in-law, Paige, yesterday. I spoke with her at length and she denies that. She says there is no way that her mother- in-law would have done something like that.

She, in fact, said, quote, "It's appalling to me. I'm totally disgusted that anyone would think that she would knowingly help them. She would never want a criminal near her family." So you clearly have two different -- two different points of view there. Mitchell's family saying that there's no way that she was involved in this, but there are allegations out there that she may, in fact, have been involved. May have been involved -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Interesting. OK. I want to go to Deb Feyerick now because as I told our viewers before, there have been sightings of these two men everywhere New York state, and even in Philadelphia. A taxi driver that said he picked up these two killers and dropped them off at the 30th Street train station.

Deborah Feyerick has been checking on that lead. She joins me now with an update.

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And Carol, what we can tell you is that I spoke to two law enforcement officials who were briefed on the situation and they say that there's no sort of credibility to the reports that this taxi driver picked up two men and took them to a station. Still, protectively, what local police are doing is they're pulling the surveillance video just to make sure.

I'm also being told by a law enforcement source that the two killers are not outdoorsmen. In fact, authorities are working on information that the men hate the outdoors actually and that one of them, David Sweat, while in prison was on pain medication for back problems. So that could also be impeding their getaway right now.

There's a suggestion also according to a source that the absence of sightings, the absence of any crimes. For example, burglaries, carjackings, no one has been reported missing in their house. People who are not showing up to work, for example, they're not showing up to school. There have been no reportings of that. So that also indicates that these two men may have not gotten far at all, that they're really sheltering in place.

They know there's an intense search on for them right now and they're probably figuring out what to do. As Jason Carroll has been saying, they're looking at this sort of bedding or the shoe print and the wrappers. It's not clear whether those items actually link directly back to the prisoners. However, because of that scent that was picked up, it is the strongest lead right now that authorities have in that area.

But that's actually almost a positive development because if you've got that whole area cordoned off, it means that they may be able to put a chokehold and get closer and closer to those men.

[10:20:01] COSTELLO: I hope so. Deborah Feyerick, thanks so much.

FEYERICK: You're welcome.

COSTELLO: And to all of my experts and reporters in the field. Thanks so much.

I've got to take a break. We'll be right back with more in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: All right. Breaking news to share with you right now about those two escaped killers, Richard Matt and David Sweat. Authorities have a promising lead. Dogs picked up a scent of one of these men. They found a boot and evidence of some bedding three miles away from the prison. The very super max prison from where these men escaped.

So let's go to the town there now, Dannemora, New York. Polo Sandoval is there.

[10:25:03] What are residents saying there or authorities? And just tell me more from your perspective.

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, Carol, people here are ready for this to be over. I had an opportunity to speak to one of several residents this morning who say really they're going about their daily lives, but at the same time they also have to go through all of these checkpoints just to get either home or to work, and to -- one thing to add, too, from the previous conversations that we've had about the concern that some of these -- that these two fugitives could be sheltering in someone's home perhaps, yesterday we were just outside the gates of the prison here in Clinton County, and I can tell you that we watched as some of these officers actually walked into at least some of the businesses, potentially even some of the homes there.

Officers making sure that people are safe basically inside their homes as well. And I can tell you that the community here is willing and ready to work with law enforcement because, again, they want to make sure these two individuals end up back behind bars.

I want to add some really unique perspective here. We're on the west side of this stretch of Highway 374 that remains closed. If you were to look in front of me, there's a -- one of the other roadblocks opposite of where CNN's Jason Carroll is, that's actually been set up there. And then you look over my shoulder, that's actually the Clinton Correctional Facility where these two men escaped from.

Now where those search dogs made that hit, it's only about two to three miles really east of where we're standing right now. So that basically puts into perspective here while search crews are searching everywhere from neighboring Vermont, north in Canada, and even taking a close look at parts of Mexico, really perhaps the most intense search is happening here in upstate New York as they could potentially have here one of their strongest leads, and that search continues. Roads are closed, and so are schools.

COSTELLO: All right, Polo. Stand by. Thanks so much.

On the phone with me right now is Shane Hobel. He's a survivalist.

Good morning, Shane.

SHANE HOBEL, MOUNTAIN SCOUT SURVIVAL SCHOOL: Good morning.

COSTELLO: Good morning. Thank you so much for joining me. So supposedly the dogs picked up the scent of one of these men and found evidence of bedding, some candy wrappers, a boot. It's very cold in the woods up there in upstate New York. Can these men survive for very long?

HOBEL: Well, what's an excellent question here. You know, out here in the valley it's summertime. Up in the Adirondacks, you are still dealing with hypothermic situations, so I'm sure they're not survival experts. I'm sure that they've been skirting along the urban environment using the woodland thickets to hide from. But as a tracker, one of the most important keys here is finding the evidence there.

Now did it belong to an irresponsible hiker? The tracker would go up to that scene and we're very cautious about how we approach. It gives us a tremendous amount of information. The direction of (INAUDIBLE). Are they tired? Are they dehydrated? A lot can be learned from a single track.

COSTELLO: All right. Thanks so much, Shane, for sharing your insight. I appreciate it.

Let's go to Jason Carroll now. He's farther in upstate New York on that very same highway that's been closed down.

What are authorities telling you now, Jason?

CARROLL: Right. We're in West Plattsburgh. We're about seven miles from where the prison is located. And, of course, the most significant lead that searchers have had in some time coming from a state official and another source telling CNN that these dogs have, in fact, keyed in on a site where these two fugitives may have been.

The question, of course, is how long ago they were there, but still finding what could be significant evidence, including a boot or a footprint, food wrappers as well. Now what investigators have to try and determine is if this was, in fact, Richard Matt and David Sweat, where they were bedding down for a period of time, how long ago were they there? Were they there Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday? That is what they have to find out in terms of trying to find out where they may be now.

In terms of what's happening where we are from our vantage point, again about seven miles east of where the prison is located right on Route 374. Behind me you can see where it has been closed off. They're only letting residents in and out, nonresidents not being allowed into the area. Basically all of this triggered last night. That's when some sort of suspicious activity was spotted.

That's when New York state police put out the word to residents in the area telling them to stay inside their homes, to lock their doors. If they had exterior lights on last night, to make sure that those lights were on.

At this point, Carol, investigators still following up on several hundred leads, but this is definitely one of the more significant leads they've had in the past few days -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Jason Carroll, Polo Sandoval, thanks so much.

I got to take a break. I'll be back with much more in the NEWSROOM.