Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Interview with Two Baltimore Police Officers; Police Set Up Search Perimeter After Receiving Tips on Whereabouts of Richard Matt, David Sweat. Aired 3:30-4:00p ET.

Aired June 11, 2015 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:30:53] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: Breaking news, we're following that massive manhunt in upstate New York for the two prison escapees, these two killers. Police have set up a search perimeter after receiving tips that may help them close in on Richard Matt and David Sweat. You have hundreds of officers from multiple jurisdictions are assisting, assisting in the search, also helping out the bloodhounds. And these are the dogs that may have given police the biggest lead yet. Investigators say some of the dogs have picked up on the prisoner's scent.

So let me bring in Sergeant John Martin with Maryland's Washington county sheriff's office. He works with bloodhounds, has one with him now. Also with me retired first sergeant Eric Fogle, formerly at Maryland state police and with us John Moriarty, Texas inspector general who actually led the search for the infamous Texas seven fugitives some years ago.

So gentlemen, great to have all of you on.

And I want to begin with the bloodhounds, Sergeant Martin, to you first, I know you're the current canine officer, you have been doing this for 17 years. Can you explain to me in this search, and I know you're not on the inside, but you know, with these bloodhounds in upstate New York, how do they even know scent to pick up on?

SGT. JOHN MARTIN, WASHINGTON CO., MARYLAND SHERIFF'S OFFICE: usually they're given an article of clothing or something that they have touched or worn, something that would carry the scent of the suspect that they're going after.

BALDWIN: And then what? How does it continue -- how does this whole process work?

MARTIN: That article is presented to the bloodhound. They're usually given the command to start their search, and then they begin their search in whatever area they're placed in. And identify whether there's actually a trail or a track where the person has been.

BALDWIN: We're looking at picture right here of vest, two and a half- year-old bloodhound vest.

For Sgt. Fogle, you trained them for 21 years, how effective are they? FIRST SGT. ERIC FOGLE (RET.), MARYLAND STATE POLICE: They're quite

effective. I mean, bloodhounds have been used for hundreds of years for trailing for missing people, criminals. They have 200 million factory cells, it make some pretty unique police dog. They're a single disciplinary dog where we compare our patrol dogs, our more utility type of dog, they are multi-disciplined. These dogs here are only focusing on one thing, and that's trailing and tracking people and human scent.

BALDWIN: So staying with you on trailing and tracking, I mean, how long after someone or in this case, perhaps two people are in on certain locations that one of these dogs can pick up that scent?

FOGLE: There's a lot of factors that go into it. Anywhere-- but generally speaking, anywhere from an hour to several days. And that all depends on a lot of the environmental conditions when you consider whether contamination, whether it be human contamination, animal contamination, scent contamination when the heavy, heavy rain can also be factors that hamper the bloodhounds. But if you have the perfect trail, they actually can do it for, you know, I've seen them as old as three days.

BALDWIN: Wow.

FOGLE: But generally speaking, within the same day is probably the most effective that you would get. Ideal conditions have to persist for something to be after that.

BALDWIN: That's pretty incredible. These dogs are incredible.

John Moriarty, I know you were in charge in the state of Texas, you know, looking for these Texas seven. And in this case, we know all of seven of them stayed together after they escaped. They got caught a month later. But you said the biggest difference between the Texas seven and these two in upstate New York is the fact that you knew the seven were outside of the perimeter pretty quickly, and your gut tells you these two are still inside.

JOHN MORIARTY, LED SEARCH FOR "TEXAS 7" FUGITIVES: That's correct. There's no -- the rule of thumb on it is that, you know, you set up that perimeter. And unless proven otherwise, you keep that perimeter up until you have concrete evidence that they've got outside that perimeter.

BALDWIN: You also think chances are that they have broken into maybe one of these, these cabins, these seasonal cabins in the woods here. Why do you think that?

[15:35:00] MORIARTY: Yes, well I think that their plan, according to the news reports that I've been seeing from you all, sounds to me like it went awry, and that they need resources. In order to stay on the run, you're going to need resource and the old adage, no man is an island. So without resources, food, shelter, clothing, they' going to be looking for some way to get those items and/or transportation to get out of that area.

BALDWIN: John Moriarty, I'd love to have you come back. I have more for you. But for now, I got to go.

John, thank you, Sergeant John Martin, retired first sergeant Eric Fogle, and he' there. Thank you all very much.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.

BALDWIN: We'll take you back from the breaking news on the manhunt. But I have the final bit here I want to share with you. My exclusive interview with the two current Baltimore city police officers, never before heard comments from, you know, active officers. They tell me how their biggest fear is now that they're patrolling streets and it actually isn't getting shot. And a final message from them to the community on how they are not quitting, they say, the people of Baltimore next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:40:39] BALDWIN: Just in, we have some new details on the gruesome mansion murders in Washington, D.C., Pamela Brown has been all over this.

And Pamela, what have you now learned?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: We're learning a lot today, Brooke, first we're learning about some of the evidence that was taken outside of the home where this quadruple homicide happened, including a bloody baseball bat that investigators believe was used in the murders. Also, hair follicles and fingerprints and shoe prints. So, of course, investigators hope that this will lead them to perhaps more suspects beyond Darron Wint who we know is behind bars. He worked for the family's company more than ten years ago.

Also Brooke, we're learning more about the brutal injuries that the victims sustained. Law enforcement official says that Phillip Savopoulos, the father, was strangled, in addition to being beaten, stabbed, and burned. I've been speaking to forensic experts about this. They say that indicates that someone, whoever did this to him was in rage angry, because that was such an intimate way to kill someone.

Also, Brooke, as we mentioned, there was this baseball bat. We know there was apparent trauma to the rear of Savas Savopoulos' head but it's unclear whether that came from the baseball bat. So, of course, investigators want to know are there any other weapons that may have been used in this. We know, Brooke, that investigators are still going through phone records and texts trying to pin down who else may have been involved in this quadruple homicide. Still such a mystery, Brooke.

BALDWIN: So completely horrific and gruesome.

Pamela Brown, thanks.

And I have been sharing several voices with you here. Voices we never really get to hear from. These two active police officers from Baltimore, the city that just experienced its deadliest month in 42 years. Two veterans of the force offering their candid views on what's happened since the arrest in the death of Freddie Gray, since six of the fellow officers were charged with his death. They told me their take on the aftermath from how they were told to stand down as the riots erupted which the police commissioner vehemently denies. Sent in without protective gear, fearing for their lives to what they call a police slowdown. One officer telling me nine times out of ten, an officer won't stop someone suspicious on the street. They are now entirely reactive and now proactive. They're afraid they'll be prosecuted.

These officers have not been permission to speak from the departments. So because of that and really in an attempt to allow these officers to speak candidly, CNN agreed not to use their names, not to show their faces. We have also modified their voices.

But I just wanted to share this final clip with you. This is the last clip from my exclusive interview that you're listening to here for the first time.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Let's say you are one of these six charged officers, would you want the trial moved outside of Baltimore?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Of course.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's the first thing that should be. It's going to be a great injustice for these officers if they don't get a change of venue. There's no way they can receive a fair trial. They've already been convicted. It's just they haven't been sentenced yet.

BALDWIN: I thought you said for the most part, the community trusts you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, the community trusts us. The thing of it is, you don't jury poll it's going to be.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People might take this opportunity once they find out what case it is and make themselves available because everyone was affected by it in the city. Everyone was subject to curfew, everyone has the opinion on whether or not they were affected by the street cruisers, by some of the officers. And so, how can you get a fair and impartial jury if everyone is affected by it?

BALDWIN: Is being an officer still worth it to you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Every day it is. Because people still need our help. Public still needs us. We're not quitting. We're not quitting on our city. We're just not.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I agree. I mean, you know, ever since I was a child, I loved the job. It's my life. I shouldn't even say it's a job because when you become a police for the right reasons, it's not a job, it's your life. It becomes part of you, becomes part of your family.

BALDWIN: And your biggest fear isn't getting shot these days, it's getting hauled off to jail. Is that accurate

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Exactly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

[15:45:00] BALDWIN: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For the wrong reasons. That's the thing. You know, I have no problem if you take advantage of your position and of your authority and of your job and you abuse it, you definitely deserve to be placed alongside of the criminal element. But when you do good things in good faith and you try to protect people and do what, what's instilled in you, not even training wise, but what's humanly instilled in you, and then you are prosecuted for that because of a, like I said, a political agenda of somebody else's game, that's willing to sacrifice innocent lives, then there's something definitely wrong with them.

And I can tell you this. I don't know how many cop's families that I've spoken with, including my own family, that they are saying, you know, you they need to get out of law enforcement, you need to get out of the police department. It's you know, what do you want to do? Do you want to, do you want to get visitors through a, you know, a phone through a jail some wall because of you doing your job, you know? And it's, like I said, I mean it's, I have hundreds of friends that are police officers. A lot of them are very close to me, almost like family that we keep in constant touch with, you know, that our spouses talk.

And the topic of the conversation right now, that has been for the last month or two, especially between spouses is, hey, I'm worried for him to go to work, you know. They're not talking out they're worried because we're going to end up getting shot or getting told that we're in a vehicle accident at work. They're worried about the people that are on our side seen roll over us because, you know, if something does go wrong, you have nowhere to turn.

BALDWIN: Last question, what would your message be to the community? Many of whom appreciate that there are excellent officers, some of whom are extraordinarily skeptical of you all as well. What would you want to tell the community, to tell Baltimore?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're not giving up. Whatever it takes, somehow, we're going to make it out of this. And just to let the citizens know, you know, when you dial 911, the will be police that will show up. It's, you know, there's perception right now that, you know, we're on a police slowdown or, which commonly called in law enforcement the blue flu and all. It's not, you know, we took an oath. And the guys and the girls that are there for the right reasons are not going to stop. Whether we're going to step up proactive policing 100 percent, I can't promise that --

BALDWIN: Ever? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, not ever. And I just -- at this point in

time, you know, I wouldn't feel confident saying that hey, we're going to be out there just like we were six months ago doing everything, you know, it's not going to happen. It's going to take time for recovery. And it's going to take time for upper echelon to show the guys on the front lines that, you know, that they have support.

BALDWIN: What's your message?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are leaders that are talking, when I say leaders amongst police officers, lower level commanders, who are helping to keep us inspired and to do the job. And we believe in them. We believe that we will get back to protecting Baltimore with time heals all wound.

And we are hurting. The city is hurting. We saw our brothers and sisters injured, seriously, some of them may never recover. And we are now watching the carnage of crime riddling our city. And we want to do our job to get the bad guys off the street. We want to target that. But we're going to take a page out of our own book and say, we took an oath, we must do the job. But we also want the citizens to do the same. And say, I'm not going to tolerate this kind of behavior in my neighborhood. And I'm going to call the police and see that that person has a job. That person is out there trying to shoot someone, or that person was responsible for shooting someone.

BALDWIN: But if you're not being proactive, how can you expect the community to be proactive?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's doing the humanly, the right thing to do. That's all we ask, you know, if you see 8-year-old shot, tell somebody. Tell someone. And we will be do what we can to go get them.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[15:50:06] BALDWIN: After parts of the interview aired, commissioner Anthony Batts responded saying in part, these officers took an oath just like everyone else. And that is to do their - to uphold their duty.

For all parts of the interview and also commissioner Batts' reaction, please go to CNN.com.

Coming up next, the '70s, the decade that changed television with iconic shows like "Charlie's Angels," joining me next live, Jacqueline Smith, one of the original angels. Do not miss this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:55:13] BALDWIN: When you think about the era, the decade that is the '70s, you think about politics and pop culture and the evolution of TV. And we here at CNN we are very excited to show you something because we are celebrating this era of television in a new CNN original series entitled "the '70s." It premieres tonight at 9:00. And way before bench watching, there were ground-break shows that were appointment viewing like "Charlie's Angels."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hold it!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can't shoot and you can't drive, so you better pack it in before you hurt yourself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Ooh, yes, the ever stunning Jacqueline Smith who played Kelly Garrett On "Charlie's Angels" joins me now. It is so great to have you on. Welcome.

JACQUELINE SMITH, ACTRESS: Thank you. Nice to be on to talk about something that is a part of my history.

BALDWIN: My goodness, I was talking to several women earlier today, Jacqueline, and they are all sort of saying, you know, at the time when you and the other lovely ladies as part of "Charlie's Angels," you know, took on these roles, I mean, you were sexy, you were strong. Did you have any idea when you said to that role, you know, what it would stand for?

SMITH: Absolutely not. I think we sort of broke the molt for cop shows, because, you know, in the sense that it was three women instead of three men, and we happened to be beautifully dressed and we solved the crimes --

BALDWIN: And beautiful.

SMITH: And I -- I really didn't think we would be talking about it this many years later. But I think it was a winning concept. That's the winner, that's the star of the show, the concept.

BALDWIN: Why do you think we are still talking about it this many decades later? What was the special sauce?

SMITH: I think that, you know, it was cast very carefully. There was something and someone for everyone. It had a very wide demographic. Young to old, you know, men and women, young girls, adolescent boys, and I think it was a relief. It was fantasy. It was fun. It wasn't to be overanalyzed. I think Aaron Spelling referred to it as mind candy.

And I think the network, as much as they wanted to have something different and original, they were a little frightened at the beginning, oh, this is too much fluff. But I think that's exactly what the audience love.

BALDWIN: Yes, the quickly I'm sure their fears went by the wayside. Can you take me behind the scenes of "Charlie's Angels?" I mean, I know so much about it has been written about and talked about, but is there any one anecdote, Jacqueline, between you and the other gals, that no one really knows about all these years later? SMITH: Boy, that's a hard one, you know. I think, you know, that

first threesome was pretty powerful, but I do want to give my friend Cheryl Ladd something who came in and filled impossible shoes. We had a strong leader, Kate Jackson, who would get in the motor home and drive it off the lot if they didn't give us our, you know, turnaround. And I guess what really made that show work, and what the audience reacted to was the camaraderie of the girls.

As far as behind the scenes, you know, I -- you know, there's lots of those stories. They're hard to share without all of us being present.

BALDWIN: BALDWIN: I got it.

SMITH: I want to survive, OK? No, we did -- no, we got along, we were friends, we're still friends, but we all -- you know, we're so totally different in many ways. And I didn't answer it, did I?

BALDWIN: No, you didn't. You didn't but it is OK. I'll let you pass.

In the final 60 seconds I have, I mean, I recently met Lynda Carter, and I remember as little girl like spinning around in playground. I mean, so you have wonder woman, you are "Charlie's Angels," you had bionic woman, all these strong female roles of that decade. What do you make of the current roles in TV and film in 2015?

SMITH: Totally different. I think things get mired in convention, and then you want something original, and that's where we are today. I mean, ours was a nursery rhyme. Today you go and you have, you know, masters of sex, and you have "homeland" and you have - I think reality TV is in. I think that happens because people need change. And with each passing decades, they have a thirst for something new and original, so you know, you have reality shows.

BALDWIN: Jacqueline Smith, thank you so much. We love watching you. We still watch the re-runs. Thank you so much.

SMITH: Thank you.

BALDWIN: And that does it for me. "The LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts now.