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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Police Set up Perimeter in Manhunt for Escaped Prisoners. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired June 11, 2015 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Live breaking coverage of the manhunt for two convicted killers continues with Ashleigh Banfield right now.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. And welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world.

We want to begin with this breaking news. Those two escaped murders in upstate New York now have eluded hundreds of police and state troopers for six days. That is far longer than the norm and possibly a record.

But as we speak, search teams are zeroing in on a site where dogs apparently picked up the scent of Richard Matt and/or David Sweat, and it's just three miles from the Dannemora prison where Matt and Sweat were cell mates and where they broke free. It might end up where they find themselves again.

Investigators found an apparent human shoeprint at the site, along with multiple food wrappers, suggesting the men may have bedded down there. The county D.A. says police have set up, quote, "a large perimeter."

Earlier, authorities shut down an eight-mile stretch of State Route 374 citing an undisclosed tip. And nearby schools, which were taking precautions already, ended up closed for the entire day instead.

We also now know official information that authorities suspect a prison employee named Joyce Mitchell, and I quote, "may have had some sort of role in aiding the escape." Sources tell CNN Mitchell was supposed to be the getaway driver but suffered a panic attack and did not show up at the assigned time or place. She is said to be cooperating with investigators, providing, quote, "critical information," end quote. And for that reason, the state says it is holding off on deciding whether or not to charge her with a crime.

I certainly could go on, but I want to bring in our team of correspondents. Jason Carroll is live right now in the town of west Plattsburgh. Polo Sandoval is live outside of the prison in Dannemora, and Deb Feyerick is live right here in the studio.

First to you, Jason. We're hearing a lot of buzz, but what exactly is happening right now? JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, just about within the

past hour or so we saw about a half dozen researchers (ph) just coming straight down here on Route 374. If you take a look behind me, Ashleigh, you can see, this is the section that is shut down. We're about seven miles east of where Polo is, near the prison here. This section of 374 shut down after they got that very strong lead.

Investigators confident -- this is what we're hearing, again, investigators confident that they have -- that dogs have keyed in on a spot where perhaps Richard Matt and David Sweat were hiding out for a period of time based on the condition of the materials that they found. Those materials being multiple food wrappers, perhaps a boot or a footprint there. Based on the condition of what they found there, they believe -- again, I say, they believe that perhaps Richard Matt and David Sweat were there recently. But in terms of what recent means, Ashleigh, does that mean Tuesday? Does that mean Wednesday? Does that mean over the weekend? That is still yet to be determined. But this is one of the strongest leads that they have had to date out of some 500 leads that they've been going through and combing over one of the strongest leads coming this morning.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: And just -- there's the notion that there were these food wrappers and a bedded down area, the impression in the grass may have been where they slept.

CARROLL: Right.

BANFIELD: How are they feeling rather certain that that is necessarily them? Is there some testing on the food wrappers? Is it from the commissary in the prison? What are they telling us, anything?

CARROLL: Well, I think what you can do is you can -- you can theorize that if these dogs have found something, have keyed in on a spot, and the way that bloodhounds work, as you know, they're given a piece of material from someone. They're given that as a scent and then they key in on that. So theoretically perhaps they had some sort of material, some original scent from Richard Matt or David Sweat, given it to the dogs, the dogs then key in on that. And because of the weather conditions here, Ashleigh, it rained Monday, it rained a little bit Tuesday, and again a little bit last night, what we're hearing is that the scent that these dogs keyed in on was a fresh scent.

BANFIELD: Wow.

CARROLL: And so that's what leads investigators to believe that perhaps -- perhaps, again, I say that Richard Matt and David Sweat were in the area recently. But, again, how do you define recently?

BANFIELD: Yes.

CARROLL: Is it Tuesday? Is it Monday? That's something that's still an outstanding question.

BANFIELD: Or was something being protected from the rain? I mean there's still so many questions.

Jason, stand by for a moment.

Polo Sandoval, you're not far from the prison and there are so many people who I think would be really shaken up by hearing it's possible that these findings put them within a perimeter of about three miles or so. What are the authorities doing for all the people in the area who could really be in jeopardy from some very desperate and dangerous men?

[12:05:02] POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, as we've seen them before, Ashleigh, they've been going door-to-door. And just to give you really a point of reference, if you will (ph). The location where our Jason Carroll is, you drive through that closed segment of highway about seven to eight miles, you would end up here at the Clinton Correctional Facility.

And this is where we've seen the officers really come and go really much of the morning and really the last several days. Many of these officers moving forward with cautious optimism, especially today, with this potential -- with at least a strong lead here. You see these officers and one has to wonder really what's going through their mind. Many of them have been showing up for the last six days. Some of them even working around the clock on the trail of David Sweat and Richard Matt. So many of them wondering if today is the day.

And back to the people who live in this small town, Ashleigh, you mentioned them. Really, in speaking to them, so many of them are ready for all of this to be over. Hearing from some of the individuals today, they are forced to stay in their homes as they can't drive through that closed segment of highway. One woman that we heard from has a business on that segment of highway, so she had to close up shop. Her kids stayed home with her since school's canceled. So, again, not only are police officers ready to get these two guys back behind bars, but the people who live in the shadow of this maximum security prison also very anxious at this hour.

BANFIELD: And let's remind our viewers, these are dangerous murders. One of them having cut up one of his victims, dismembering a victim. They are dangerous and deadly and desperate. A very bad combination. And oftentimes what's in their background might lead to where they may be.

Deb Feyerick, you've got so many sources within the authorities. Is anyone telling you any particular clues that's taking them where they are right now?

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, a couple of things. First of all, authorities are working on information that, in fact, these two men were not outdoorsmen. They have no wilderness training, for example. So part of this elaborate escape was the fact that somebody was going to be waiting on the other side to take them away, take them far away. That did not happen. So the fact that they've now found something that looks like bedding, where there may be crushed leaves, crushed ground, means that they're sheltering in an area not far from that prison. We know that authorities are looking at vacant homes right now.

We also know one of the killers, David Sweat, was apparently taking pain medication while in prison for a back problem, so that may also be sort of hampering their ability to simply get away. One investigator tells me also that an absence of sightings, an absence of crimes in that area, for example, burglaries, carjacking, even somebody saying, you know, I don't know, we haven't seen this family for a couple of days now, suggests that, in fact, they're laying low, they're sheltering in place while they try to regroup because the weather has been so bad that they just simply have not been able to put any distance -- meaningful distance between themselves and the prison which they broke out of.

BANFIELD: Yes, it's just -- it's nerve-racking to think there could be hostages somewhere sustaining the lives of these two killers, these murders, while they plot their next escape plan.

Jason Carroll, just quickly to you if I can. The authorities were somewhat quick to release some identifying features. The mug shots are great, but there are a few things that are even better, you might think, if they'd done something to their appearances, and that's the tattoos. One of these guys has IFB tattooed on his fingers. It is real hard to escape that if you're trying to buy something in a store or just prosecute life. Is there anything else they're helping us with in terms of finding them?

CARROLL: Well, and -- well, let's first of all talk about their appearance, though. It's very likely that they tried to do something to change their appearance, grow a beard, change their hair color, change their clothes, things of that nature, which would very easily be able to hide their tattoos. What they're really relying on, Ashleigh, at this point are information that they've received from the extensive amount of interviews that they've done inside the prison, also from Joyce Mitchell. Apparently she's been very cooperative, this according to the Clinton County district attorney. You remember that as the prison employee who was alleged to have helped them with their escape. Her family denies that. But -- so they're relying on a lot of things trying to catch these guys. Interviews they've done at the prison, information that they're getting from Joyce Mitchell, this prison employee. But they're also asking for the public's assistance as well, asking the public to be vigilant, to report anything suspicious that they may have seen or heard.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: And, Deb Feyerick, to that end, I want to bring you in on this because so many people have asked the question, if Joyce Mitchell admitted --

FEYERICK: Right.

BANFIELD: She was going to drive the getaway car, suffered a panic attack and went to the hospital instead, and now there's talk that she may have had an even bigger involvement in aiding and abetting -- and I will use those words because that's the charge --

FEYERICK: Right.

BANFIELD: Why no charge?

FEYERICK: Well, it's interesting because right now, outside of these two men and people we may not know, this woman knows more about what they were intending to do than anyone. The fact that she was going to be the one who was waiting there, the fact that she may have helped them, proving them with things inside that prison, even possibly making calls for them or giving them access to her phone because we had reported earlier that, in fact there were calls that were made.

So they're not going to charge her. They have no reason to alienate her right now. If they do and she shuts down, then it could be much more complicated, much more difficult. So that she's co-operating, right now, that is a good thing for authorities.

[12:10:12] BANFIELD: All right, well, let's keep on this. I want to make sure we know exactly what happens in terms of the closures in these roadways, these interstates, et cetera, and then exactly what they released to us at least that they have found.

Thank you, Jason and Polo and Deb, to all three of you. We're going to revisit this in a moment.

But just how have these killers managed to elude police, even for these last six days? And looking forward, how much longer could they really last out there? What are they eating? Where are they sleeping? How are they getting money? We're going to ask the experts on just how tough this really is. You might be surprised.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: We're continuing with our breaking news of these two escaped convicts, deadly convicts, responsible for murders, dismemberments, on the run, possibly in northern New York state. And there are some clues, at least a scent has been picked up by the dogs. This is what the authorities want you to know. Call 1-800-GIVE-TIP if you think you may know anything, if you think you may have seen something.

In the meantime, for residents in and around the Dannemora prison, where they ran from and where these clues were picked up, all within about a three-mile radius, they are living in fear and they are essentially under a kind of lockdown.

Josh Parker is one of those residents. He's in Cadyville. He's got three children and a wife.

And, Josh, I think that you can hear me. You're on the phone. Can you hear me?

JOSH PARKER, LIVES NEAR PRISON WHERE INMATES ESCAPED: Yes, I can.

BANFIELD: Josh, what's happening around you right now?

[12:15:00] PARKER: We woke up this morning to find out in front of our home a New York State Department of Corrections officer. And I went out and asked him if I could get him anything and he was fine. And I asked him how long he had been there. He's been there since midnight. And he told me he hasn't slept since yesterday at 5:00 a.m. So he's going on well over 24 hours. It's just the job these corrections officers are doing in and around the area. It's amazing, the shifts they're pulling, the time they're putting in to try to catch these two.

BANFIELD: Apart from their dedication, where they concerned about you, and were they telling you that you need to shelter in place or just be vigilant?

PARKER: I did go out shortly after to talk to him again and ask him a question as far as leaving the home and he immediately motioned me to go back into the house and said they're doing a push, which meant they were pushing from Route 374 through the woods with armed men as well as dogs coming in our direction. And a few moments later, there was five armed individuals in camouflage gear with a German shepherd that we saw come out of the woods behind and next to our house and our neighbor's yard as well. That was kind of an unexpected sight by all means, and the helicopter going overhead all day. Although they definitely --

BANFIELD: Josh, you've got three -- you've got three daughters, as I understand, 10, 13 and 16, is that correct?

PARKER: That is correct.

BANFIELD: I just can't imagine the fear that you must be in. Listen, I'm nowhere near to where you are but I'm in a neighboring state and I'm worried at night. What are you doing to protect yourself?

PARKER: I have a gun. It's loaded. It's near the bed. It's -- every door is locked. Every window has an additional lock on it. They're all being used. Putting items in front of the doors. Just in case anybody was able to get in, it would make a lot of noise, as well as keeping every light outside my house on. And actually the corrections officer told me it was a great thing that I had the lights on because it gave them an opportunity to see because we're on a street where there are no street lights, or at least not in this general vicinity. So he was happy to see that. And just taking every precaution we can. I've had to come home before my wife and kids come home and sweep through my house and make sure there's nobody if the home. So just things that you'd never think you'd have to do, you have to do. But, you know, their presence and the job they're doing is great.

BANFIELD: And what are you -- what are you telling your daughters? The fear that adults have in that community, knowing who's out there right now and how desperate they are and how dangerous they are, how are you assuaging the concerns of your kids and your wife?

PARKER: We -- actually the other day -- it's not anything specific we've said. I think it's just what we do. The other night I actually had to show them how to load the gun and if they had to use it how it could be used. We also had to walk through an escape route out of our house and whose house to go to and, you know, when you run and scream, you know, scream as loud as you can, it if anything ever did happen, and just to keep an eye on -- if they saw anything out of the ordinary, to please let myself or their mother know or police know.

BANFIELD: And have you -- have you heard anything overhead? There's been a lot of reporting of police using infrared and choppers to try to track anything they can, that it's very difficult because it's a thickly wooded area. But have you heard any evidence of helicopters overhead?

PARKER: Oh, absolutely. There's at least one if not two helicopters going overhead. The information the corrections officer had told me, the FBI agents that are down the road, they had -- they're equipped with night vision goggles. So he said they had a bit of a one-up on them. But the corrections department is equipped with nothing more than, I believe, flashlights to shine into the woods, but it is a very heavily wooded area, very thick brush.

BANFIELD: And what are you doing day-to-day right now in terms of school for the kids and work for the adults?

PARKER: Their -- the children are attending school on a daily basis. After school, the oldest -- they go down to Morrisonville and meet their sister and they stay at the Morrisonville school in an after school program until their mother gets off work and then, thankfully, I work out in Malone (ph) at Baily (ph) Motor Company out there. My boss and fellow employees have all been kind enough to cover my shifts and understand that I need to come home to be here for my family and I've had to come into the house before my wife and kids will come home and go through the home with the gun to make sure nobody is in here. And then I call them and they leave the school and come home. So --

BANFIELD: But so far --

PARKER: (INAUDIBLE).

BANFIELD: But so far police haven't told you to alter that? They haven't said stay in the home, don't send the kids to school? We know one school district actually closed because of some of the road closures because of the search but so far they're not telling you that?

PARKER: Right. That is my daughter's school district. They've closed all the schools in the district of Saranac (ph). So they did close those schools and they haven't told us as far as police presence or anything like that, they have not -- they have not told us to stay in the home indefinitely. You know, we've been going in and out as time permits and depending on what's going on. And just kind of looking around to see who's still here because it's just -- it sounds like they may have moved the search further away from the house at this point in time but I'm not quite sure. It's hard to tell.

[12:20:09] BANFIELD: Are you and your neighbors talking regularly to try to confer and gather information among you as to what's happening?

PARKER: Oh, absolutely. Yes, they've been calling me when I was at work, calling me on my cell phone and I've been doing the same with them. And then when we're home, we're talking. My neighbors did come over and visit this morning just to make sure we're OK and we've got everything we need and vice versa. So everybody is -- everybody is sticking together very tightly in and around the area. So you couldn't ask for a better neighborly situation.

BANFIELD: Well, Josh, thank God for that. And I -- listen, I wish the best for you. I'm so sorry you're having to go through this because this is truly -- it's terrifying. Like I said, I'm in a neighboring state and I'm worried at night. So I just can't imagine what you and your family -- you're going through. Thank you for talking to us today.

PARKER: Thank you for having me.

BANFIELD: And best of luck to you as well. Josh Parker joining us from Cadyville, where residents are on edge seeing all of these officers and authorities searching, combing this area for these two escaped killers.

But how much longer can they last? How far could they get? That's a fairly small map when you think of trains, buses, automobiles, sightings even as far as Philadelphia. So how logical could it be that they could escape this area? And with that many officers, what's the likelihood they're not going to get much farther?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:25:11] BANFIELD: We're following what may be the final stretch of the manhunt for two escaped killers named Richard Matt and David Sweat. And it is very near the New York prison they hoped to never see again. In fact, within three miles, they say.

The district attorney in Clinton County now says a perimeter is set up around a site where bloodhound dogs picked up a scent and where police found food wrappers and at least one apparent footprint or boot print.

My next guest is an expert at finding people who may not want to be found. Darrin Giglio is a chief investigator at North American Investigations. I'm also joined by Larry Koblinsky, who's a professor of criminal justice and a forensic scientist. He's at John Jay College.

First to you if I can, Darren, those who don't want to be found, we all know that they can disappear, they can go on the Internet and figure that out. But if you're two guys out in the wilderness who have been spent a lot of time behind bars without perhaps a lot of access to the Internet, what on earth might they be able to do if they're not survivalist experts?

DARRIN GIGLIO, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: Well, that's the difficulty that, you know, to survive off grid like that where, you know, they're in the elements, you know, their backup plan probably didn't call for them being stuck in the woods. They had that one plan that potentially if, in fact, Joyce Mitchell was supposed to be their getaway driver and she bailed on that. Now they're stuck in the woods.

To do that and to survive successfully, you would need extensive training. You would have to know how to hunt and clean food, how to -- what's to know what's poison is not, how to make a fire, what shelters to build, how to deal with wounds and sickness. It takes a lot of survival training. Even to read a book or something to know, it's much different than being in the elements. I mean I served in the Marine Corps and now how difficult it could be in those environments and some guys -- these two fugitives who are not even trained like that, I feel it's only a matter of time if -- them being captured.

BANFIELD: And then there's that one step further. Let's say they are actually hiding in plain sight, going into convenience stores and maybe shoplifting for these wrappers. We're not sure if they're commissary wrappers or where these wrappers came from. But the one thing I noticed in some notes of yours is that you've got to be an actor. You've got to be -- your first job is that you've got to be a good actor if you want to pull this off.

GIGLIO: Yes, I mean, I think that's more in the long term, but, you know, just because the public now are all witnesses and informants. You know, there's so much coverage on this and sightings of them. So, you know, blending into the population is going to be two things, whether it's, you know, first it's going to be physically. How are they going to be able to blend in physically without being recognized. And then the second thing is productively. How can they productively blend in?

So, again, the first job that these fugitives would have to blend back in is, you're right, their first job is an actor. Now, are they going to be as good as Jack Nicholson? Can they really have a whole cover story, a back story? You know, the way I -- the equivalent is like the witness protection program that people hear about, right, where the government takes these people, they give them a whole new identity, a whole new back story, place them into another area and jobs and all that. Now, are these people and these fugitives able to accomplish that on their own? That's the big question. I personally don't think that these escapees have that knowledge or that know-how, but, you know, time is to tell.

BANFIELD: Well, Dr. Koblinsky, I want you to weigh in here if you can with your forensic knowledge. These guys are on not only a macro search where they are searching hundreds and hundreds of miles of terrain that these two may have crossed or covered, they're also looking at the micro level because they've come across the wrappers. They've come across this depressed area of grass they think is a bedded area and the shoeprint. So what can they do with that? How quickly can they process that to know they're on the right trail?

LAWRENCE KOBLINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Well, they have a starting point right now. I think that there are a number of things that law enforcement can and will do. Sending a helicopter up or light aircraft with infrared detection equipment would be a pretty good way to find people hiding in a dense forest, very rugged area.

Second would be dogs. Dogs have this uncanny ability to detect literally molecules. There's a big part of their brains devoted to the o-factory (ph), to the smell sense. So dogs would work.

But basically law enforcement needs to break the search area into concentric circles to leave no stone unturned. They need to have a lot of people holding basically hand-to-hand almost covering the area to leave no stone unturned so that every square inch has been covered. And they need to move outward from that central area.

BANFIELD: Let me ask, Darrin, if I can, about the tattoos. I keep mentioning this, the police and the authorities have been good enough to release pretty significant information about these inmates. They've got the wanted posters out. They've got the 1-800-GIVE-TIP number.

[12:30:05] They've got their mug shots. And then look closely at your screen, if you can. These identifying tattoos on Richard Matt, they're on either bicep and the heart on his chest.

And then look over at David Sweat.