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More Evidence against Prison Worker?; Obama to Visit Capitol Hills to Lobby for Trade Deal; Bill Clinton Defends Wife Hillary; Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired June 12, 2015 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[10:00:28] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

I want to begin with a desperate manhunt for two convicted killers. We now know prison worker Joyce Mitchell provided escape tools, including hacksaw blades. She supplied those things to Richard Matt and David Sweat before they broke free from a prison in upstate New York. That's according to two law enforcement sources. Mitchell has not been arrested or charged as of yet. Authorities say she is cooperating with police.

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ANDREW WYLIE, DISTRICT ATTORNEY, CLINTON COUNTY, NEW YORK: She continues to cooperate. She continues to come in and speak to us, and each day we're learning a little bit more information as to her involvement in this case and how she developed a relationship with these two men.

I can't speak for Miss Mitchell, but she may feel obviously some responsibility and guilt for her involvement, and she wants to help that situation or help herself out in her situation.

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COSTELLO: All of this as bloodhounds pick up the inmates' scent at a gas station just one mile away from the prison. Moments ago I talked with one resident who lives in Saranac, New York. He claims there's a swarm of police activity in his neighborhood. Listen.

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THOMAS LASALLE, LIVES IN SARANAC, NEW YORK: We just got word from one of our neighbors that they possibly spotted the inmates jumping a stonewall at -- near the intersection of Cringle Road and Bucks Corners Road, and I know SWAT is there, and we also have several armed officers moving in towards the house. The helicopters are now flying south of me doing like search grids and to the east. So I'm not sure if it's like a delayed report and that they're searching other areas near there, but there definitely is a swarm of activity now.

(END VIDEO CLIP) COSTELLO: OK. So we're still trying to figure out what's going down in that neighborhood. But we want to get right to CNN's Jason Carroll and Alexandra Field. They're both on the ground in upstate New York.

Let's start with you, Jason. Tell us the latest on the search.

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, from where our vantage point, we're at the eastern section of Route 374, that portion of the route still shut down. It was shut down yesterday. You heard from that resident there from Saranac, the Saranac Central School District has shut down classes again for the second day.

A bit of new information emerging, Carol, about the possible trail of these two inmates, and that has to do with the gas station that you mentioned located just about an hour -- excuse me, located just about a mile or so away from where the prison is located. That's the Maple Field Gas Station. It's in all likelihood these two inmates stopped there trying to get food, perhaps trying to get supplies, maybe went through the dumpster there.

Investigators are currently reviewing security cameras to see if that in any way will provide them any leads as well. In the meantime, as you know, those same dogs that hit on a scent there at the Maple Field Gas Station also hit on an area not too far where we are right now. We talked a little bit about that yesterday, that particular spot where perhaps these two had been bedding down for a period of time.

Investigators now at this point have to try to confirm if, in fact, they were there for a period of time. We talked about those wrappers that were there on the ground that they found. Well, they've got to make sure that those wrappers were brought there, not blew in from another location and just happened to end up here -- happened to end up there. That's all going to be a part of the investigation that's going forward.

In the meantime, they do have a perimeter there off of Route 374. They have narrowed that perimeter, but at this point still no sign of those two missing inmates -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Jason Carroll, many thanks to you.

Now let's head to Alexandra Field for more information about this prison worker, Joyce Mitchell.

Good morning.

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. You spoke to one resident who described how he and so many others in this area are feeling pure disgust he said for the alleged responsibility that Joyce Mitchell may have had in helping these two inmates to escape. The Clinton County district attorney has said that he believes that she might be feeling some sense of guilt or responsibility and that's what could be motivating her to continue speaking to investigators on a daily basis without even having an attorney present.

We are learning more about her alleged role. Two law enforcement officers saying she brought not only hacksaw blades into that prison but also drill bits and eyeglasses with lights on them, materials they say she had purchased within just the last few months.

Another law enforcement official saying that it was her cell phone that was used to contact some of Richard Matt's associates. Police, of course, believe that Joyce Mitchell had planned to drive the getaway car and then at some point, the last minute perhaps, changed her mind leaving the two fugitives without any sort of plan here.

[09:05:12] The district attorney investigating her alleged role in the escape, while of course -- investigators are trying to track down the two fugitives who are still on the loose. The district attorney here says that at the end of this investigation he has every intention to pursue charges. Those charges could include felony charges like accessory to escape and promoting prison contraband.

We are also learning a little bit more about why investigators focused so quickly on Joyce Mitchell in the aftermath of that escape. It was apparently investigated an earlier time, there had been reports of some kind of relationship between Joyce Mitchell and one of the escapees. There was an investigation. The D.A. says they didn't turn up any evidence that would confirm a relationship, but David Sweat was moved out of the tailor shop that she worked in here at the prison.

We also know, Carol, that she has told investigators about her rapport with Richard Matt, saying that he made her feel special.

COSTELLO: It's just hard to fathom. Alexandra Field, Jason Carroll, thanks to both of you.

I want to bring in criminologist Scott Bonn now. He's the author of "Why We Love Serial Killers." I'm also joined by CNN law enforcement analyst Tom Fuentes, he's also a former FBI assistant director.

Welcome, gentlemen.

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Good morning.

COSTELLO: Good morning. Scott, I want to start with you. Joyce Mitchell, what was she thinking?

SCOTT BONN, CRIMINOLOGIST: Well, this woman sounds like that she was in love or obsessed with one or both of these individuals, and these things happen sometimes. I really believe that in the case of Richard Matt you're dealing with an individual here who based upon everything that I have been able to learn about him is likely a psychopath and psychopathic individuals are very manipulative.

They tend to be very intelligent and it's come out Matt's own son has said that his father has, he believes, a genius level IQ. So you have an individual here who is diabolical, cold-blooded, very manipulative, very intelligent, and it's very likely that he just won the affection --

COSTELLO: But it's one thing for a psychopath to talk to a woman and the woman doesn't know his criminal background. BONN: Right.

COSTELLO: I mean, Mr. Matt is a bad guy. He dismembered his boss. David Sweat is a bad guy. He shot a deputy 22 times, and Miss Mitchell would have known that.

BONN: That's absolutely true, but even Charles Manson had his groupies and continues to have his groupies today. There's this fascination sometimes with individuals who become obsessed with very bad people, and perhaps she thought that he was misunderstood. Perhaps she thought that she was some -- in some way a soul mate, that she could change him somehow.

You know, we don't know this woman's psychological makeup. She may be a very damaged or troubled person herself, and he fulfilled some need. That's what psychopaths do. They find a need that you have and they manipulate you and twist it in order to get what they want, and clearly this was extremely well planned. I mean, this was a meticulously well planned escape.

And the fact that they may be in the woods just a few miles away from the prison is an indication that this was a botched job. Probably Joyce didn't show up as planned to pick them up because if she had, they probably would be long gone by now.

COSTELLO: Interesting.

So, Tom, supposedly Miss Mitchell smuggled in hacksaw blades, safety glasses with lights, and drill bits. How would she have done that if she did indeed do it?

FUENTES: Well, Carol, we don't know what the security measures were there for employees, contractors that come into the prison every day to work. So, you know, did she bring in a gym bag so she could work out and maybe, you know, hid it with that or made it look like she was trying to work out? You know, so we just don't know the security measures that were in place there to see how easy that would have been.

COSTELLO: And, Tom, I don't know if you heard him, but I just heard from a resident in Saranac that says there's a swarm of police activity just a couple of miles from where that prison is. Supposedly his neighbor said on Facebook that her -- in her parents' backyard these two guys jumped over a fence and went into the woods. Do you think that police are closing in or do they get a lot of these kinds of calls that may be accurate and maybe not?

FUENTES: Could be both. You know, they do get a lot of those type of calls, and particularly if they get a call like that in this area where they believe these two are hiding in pretty close proximity to the prison, that they didn't get picked up and get driven out of town, out of state, so -- but even so they're going to take every one of these completely seriously and send in all of the police and SWAT teams and use aviation assets, everything they can do to try to locate them. [10:10:05] They're not going to just blow off somebody that calls in

on the phone and says, I have seen these guys. They're going to go. They're going to explore every possibility.

COSTELLO: It seems pretty obvious that authorities think they're still somewhere in the area because that's where they're concentrating their search. Is that a good guess on my part?

FUENTES: No, and I think they've said that. That they were pretty, I guess, confident that that was the best choice at the moment, but they've also said, don't disregard the possibility that even if they were in that area up until as recently as yesterday, that they could have slipped out of the net. They could be out of state by now and on the loose, on their way somewhere else. You just don't know.

And we don't know as cunning as they are whether their plan might have been to find a vacation home that nobody is occupying, enter it, shelter in that house for several weeks until all of this dies down a little bit and officers go back to more normal duties and the media stops covering this every day and showing their pictures and their tattoos and they're alleged girlfriend and, you know, at that point maybe try to get out of town.

So we just don't know what their complete strategy was in the aftermath of somebody not picking them up that should have been there.

COSTELLO: So authorities say Joyce Mitchell was involved, but there had to be more people involved, right? How many people would have to be involved in something like this to go down?

FUENTES: Well, I don't know. If she was able to bring in all of the tools and equipment that they were able to use to actually get out of the prison, then the question is what was the plan when they got out of the prison? If she was one of the people that was supposed to pick them up, she did let them use, or they did get access to her cell phone, so we don't know if they called other people and maybe they led her to believe that she was the one and she's the one they were going to rely on and maybe they did have somebody else that came along and was already always supposed to come along to pick them up or pick them up nearby at a couple miles from the prison.

We just don't know. So we don't know that somebody that did all of the planning they did to get out of that prison must have had plan A, plan B, plan C for what they would do when they got out. It's hard to believe that once their ride didn't show up that they were completely stymied in where they were going to go and what they were going to do at that point.

COSTELLO: Yes, and I see, Scott, you're nodding your head. You agree?

BONN: Absolutely. This was too well-planned on the inside for it to be so botched on the outside. Something went awry. There's been so many hits now with the dogs indicating that they slept in the woods. At a gas station they picked up the scent again. So there's a very strong indication that they are in that very, very close vicinity, and if that's the case, that can't possibly have been the original plan. And so something went awry. If they're now left to having to commit crimes in order to just survive to get food, to get money, to get shelter --

COSTELLO: There's no indication of that, though.

BONN: But if -- as this goes on, if they -- they stopped by a Subway sandwich shop and if they're stealing food and going to dumpsters and things like that, they're going to make mistakes and they're going to get caught sooner than later.

COSTELLO: Scott Bonn, Tom Fuentes, thanks to both of you. I appreciate it.

BONN: Thank you.

COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM, President Obama makes a surprise trip to Capitol Hill ahead of a crucial trade bill vote. Plus, former president Clinton opens up to our Jake Tapper. Why his answer to this question might surprise you.

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JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST, "STATE OF THE UNION": There are polls that show that fewer and fewer Americans think that your wife is honest and trustworthy, and this has happened at the same time these questions about the foundation, questions about her e-mail, and that must really bother you.

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[10:14:04]

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COSTELLO: All right. We've been expecting President Obama to talk about his trade bill. Well, turns out he had something else in mind. Our Sunlen Serfaty has been tracking the president and she finally found him, in all places, inside the Capitol. Presumably the president is lobbying face-to-face with lawmakers who are opposed to the so-called Transpacific Partnership. A trade bill that would essentially open trade with Asian countries. Not China, but with Asian countries.

So CNN's Sunlen Serfaty is on the phone right now. What's the president doing?

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (via phone): Well, Carol, right now I'm outside the room where President Obama is huddling with House Democrats. Democrats who have been torn in his side, standing in the way of the White House and President Obama getting what they consider a win on this trade deal.

This is the last-ditch effort by President Obama to personally come up to Capitol Hill and make the appeal to these Democrats to get on board, but the big question is -- is it too little too late? One House Democrat says they believe the president's outreach is coming too late and doesn't believe that it will really help save the package.

So we are just a few hours away from votes on this bill, two pieces of legislation that are necessary to move it forward, but that vote has been delayed. President Obama met with Democratic leadership. He is now meeting with Democrats.

Now he needs to flip some votes. He needs to get members of his own party on board, many of whom are very against this trade bill and are standing in the way. Certainly this is an interesting situation, very fluid right now. We'll see if President Obama comes out of this meeting, how long potentially it takes him to flip those votes, pick up additional votes. If he comes up successful, potentially later in the day we could see the vote.

[10:20:05] As of now, though, President Obama personally coming to the hill is a big indication that the White House the president knows they do not have a vote. This is a key part of President Obama's legislative agenda. He's been working on it for years so he is taking a personal investment, putting himself on the line. The big question, though, is will it turn out their way in the end.

COSTELLO: I'm just interested to find out how you got these pictures of the president. How did you guys manage to do that?

SERFATY: That was from great congressional senior producer Deidre Walsh who was staking out President Obama as he arrived on the Hill. This was a surprise visit. President Obama coming from the White House early this morning, meeting with these Democrats. We also know President Obama made a surprise visit last night to the congressional baseball game where Democrats and Republicans take on each other.

This is pretty rare for the president to make such a personal appeal on Capitol Hill following days of lobbying by members of his administration, the Treasury secretary, his chief of staff. They've been coming up to the hill, meeting with Democrats, trying to twist arms, but really it's been the big hurdle because many Democrats are just against this bill, and they're not willing to put themselves on the line and vote with the White House.

It's a rare occurrence, Carol, where you have the White House, President Obama, and Republicans on one side and Democrats very much on the side of the other.

COSTELLO: Right. And again, just for our viewers, this trade bill would create free trade agreements between the United States and 11 markets in Asia, but not China. The trade would Australia, Brunei, Canada, Chile, Japan, Malaysia, Mexico, New Zealand, Peru, Singapore, the United States, and Vietnam. Essentially remove tariffs so that the United States could sell goods to these other countries. But, of course, some Democrats believe that would cost American jobs.

Sunlen Serfaty, thank you so much for keeping us posted and for getting those great pictures. I appreciate it. In other political news this morning, Hillary Clinton is not taking

many questions from reporters, but her husband Bill is talking a blue streak defending his wife in an emotional interview with Jake Tapper who makes his debut as host of CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION" on Sunday.

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TAPPER: There are polls that show that fewer and fewer Americans think that your wife is honest and trustworthy, and this has happened at the same time as these questions about the foundation, questions about her e-mail, and that must really bother you.

BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Yes, but, I mean, we're used to it, and the only thing I would say about this is, number one, I'm glad it's happening now because I trust the American people, and I trust her with my life, and have on more than one occasion.

She was always, whenever I had troubles, she was a rock in our family. I was the youngest former governor in American history in 1980 on election night. I got killed in the Reagan landslide. And people I had appointed to office would walk across the street, they were so afraid of the new regime in Arkansas to not shake hands with me. My career prospects were not particularly bright, and she never blinked. She just said, hey, it will turn around. I believe in you, you got to.

And we built a life together based on, you know, the things we cared about, the things that we loved, and we were blessed with a daughter who turned out pretty well, I'd say.

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COSTELLO: Also insisted donors to the Clinton Foundation did not seek favors from Mrs. Clinton while she was secretary of state because, as Mr. Clinton said, she was pretty busy those days. And Mr. Clinton says he never saw his wife study a list of contributors to the foundation. All of this on the eve of Hillary Clinton's first big campaign rally that takes place tomorrow here in New York.

With me now to discuss, Kiki McLean, former senior adviser for Hillary Clinton's 2008 campaign, and Sabrina Schaefer, executive director of the Independent Women's Forum.

Welcome to both of you.

KIKI MCLEAN, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER TO 2008 HILLARY CLINTON CAMPAIGN: Good morning.

SABRINA SCHAEFFER, EXEC. DIRECTOR, INDEPENDENT WOMEN'S FORUM: Thanks.

COSTELLO: Good morning. So, Sabrina, I want to start with you. You heard it, Mr. Clinton said we're used to it. That is being accused of things. And the Clintons have been accused of things like shady financial dealings, even murder. So will voters say, oh, this foundation thing is just one more thing? SCHAEFFER: I know. He's so talented as a public speaker that he's

able to sort of brush off years of scandal with such elegance and grace. You know, the interesting thing is that we have, and Kiki and I were talking about this before we came on air. We haven't really gotten into a substantive debate on policies either on the Republican side or the Democratic side and so voters are paying attention to other kinds of cues, things like trustworthiness, is this somebody who I feel comfortable with, who I can trust.

[10:25:07] And right now that is something that is a problem for Hillary Clinton and we'll see. I think her husband may be correct that as we get into the bigger debate, this is an issue that voters will forget about, but right now it's top of mind.

COSTELLO: Absolutely. And Kiki, it is interesting, Mr. Clinton is portraying his wife as the rock in the family, always supportive, and a grandma, too. Hillary Clinton's camp started an Instagram account and it showed like a rack of suits. She was poking fun at herself, yet her trustworthy numbers have fallen, so is this really working?

MCLEAN: Let me tell you what's important to recognize here, and that is there are polls that show that all the attacks haven't done damage to her. You know, my 13-year-old son on the way to school in the car this morning said, mom, are they trying to demolish her? And I said they're not doing a very good job, are they? And he said, you know, it's not because -- it's not because they're against her. It's because they're afraid of her. I mean, even a kid gets it.

And here's two things I do know. Number one is that the Clinton Foundation saves lives and number two, that Hillary Clinton wants to fight for America's families. And I'm glad of both of those things, and I think what Sabrina raises, the issues of this campaign are going to be defined by the American people, and she'll start that conversation in a big way tomorrow, and I look forward to hearing from her and I think voters want to hear from all the candidates.

But tomorrow she's going to tell people what motivates her, why she's the kind of fighter she is, and the kinds of issues that she wants to fight for them on and I think that's what they want to hear about.

COSTELLO: Well, Sabrina, I will say do you think that most of America knows what the Clinton Foundation does and will understand what the Clintons are being accused of?

SCHAEFFER: Probably not and not because the American people are stupid, but because people are busy and they have busy lives and a lot of these scandals very often seem kind of convoluted and it's hard to track who did what when. But what they are hearing is that there's suspicion around Hillary Clinton related to the foundation and to an e-mail scandal and to Benghazi.

There's problems, right? And so what they're waiting to hear now is where does she stand on Obamacare, where does she stand on energy policy, where does she stand on workplace regulations? How is she going to implement, you know, policies that are going to help this middle class that she talks a lot about? I mean, how is she going to differentiate herself from other candidates, namely those running on the Republican ticket who are going to have very different policies?

And I think that's what's going to really be much more interesting. I am ready to get beyond the scandals because, you know, there are a lot of pressing questions facing the country right now.

MCLEAN: Well, you can --

COSTELLO: You're absolutely right about that.

MCLEAN: You can market that Sabrina and I are in agreement today. That that's really what people care about. And so when she talks tomorrow about what motivates her, and, you know, we all have people who have influenced our lives and her mother's story certainly did. And that's the kind of fighter she is, for families and kids. And that they ought to have a champion.

And when she goes out on the road and she listens to and visits with everyday Americans and bringing their concerns about what isn't just about economic opportunity but really a permanent prosperity for them will be the kinds of things that they care about. So for today Sabrina and I can be in agreement.

COSTELLO: That's a good thing.

SCHAEFFER: The one thing I'll just throw out there is that, you know, personally I do find it terrible that we have people running for public office who are embroiled in scandals and one of the problem is that we have sort of the career politician or the person who, you know, is in the business of politics and I think that that is very concerning and the American people should have a conversation about these scandals, but I also hope, like Kiki says, that ultimately we can be talking about much more and then they'll have to weigh those two things.

MCLEAN: See, and I love a person who has committed their life to public service.

COSTELLO: OK. Exactly.

(LAUGHTER)

MCLEAN: I'm really proud when people commit their lives to public service like Hillary Clinton.

COSTELLO: I have to end it there.

Kiki McLean, Sabrina Schaeffer, thanks to both of you.

And a reminder, you can catch Jake Tapper's entire interview with President Clinton Sunday 9:00 a.m. and noon Eastern on "STATE OF THE UNION."

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, the search for two escaped killers and the help they got from inside.

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