Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Trade Deal in Jeopardy; Manhunt for Prisoners; NAACP Leader is White; Prison Worker's Husband. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired June 12, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour. You're watching CNN. We've got some breaking news for you on this Friday. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

We have breaking news as far as that manhunt goes, looking for those two escapees in upstate New York. We'll take you there in just a second.

But first, we have to go to Washington because the House is voting on this bill that is - it's a bill that has incredibly been important to the president, who's backed this. That, in fact, he went to - here he is - he went to Capitol Hill in this last-minute push today trying to get members of his own party, Democrats here, to support this bill to give him the fast-track trade authority. The bill, supported in the House largely by establishment Republicans, faced a strong opposition by both Democrats and conservative Republicans. In effect, it would allow the president to negotiate trade deals and give Congress only a yes or no vote on them.

Let's go straight to my colleague, Sunlen Serfaty, who's been watching all of this and the votes and the numbers.

Sunlen, what do we have right now?

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, certainly a significant blow for President Obama at the hand of many of his colleagues, Democrats, here in the House. There were a series of bills planned to be voted on. First, the TAA. That went down by a vote of 309 with a significant number of Democrats voting against it. That was the first step, the first hurdle to get to a vote on trade promotion authority, which President Obama, as you know, came to Capitol Hill to lobby on.

Now, with the defeat, we had been told for days by the House Republican leadership that that would pretty much be a nail in a coffin for trade, but there have been some unusual procedural tactics being used that are still being sorted out at this moment. Moving towards a vote on the TPA after all, potentially indicating, Brooke, that there is support here in the House. Not sure at this moment what will get worked out, whether this bill has to go back to the Senate, which is what these members of Congress were trying to avoid being that the Senate is not here. They are on recess and they won't be back until Monday. That was what everyone here was trying to avoid. So at this point, things very much in flux, but certainly a lot of

hurdles still remain before President Obama gets what he wants and he is getting a lot of strong arming by members of his own party right now.

Brooke.

BALDWIN: Sunlen, thank you so much.

I want to go straight to the White House, to our correspondent there, Jim Acosta.

I mean, listen, you know, I've heard from critics already today saying the president decided just today to go to, you know, to Capitol Hill? Like a little too little too late. How is the White House responding?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That is basically what just about everybody in Washington is saying right now, Brooke, too little, too late. The president knew he was in trouble yesterday. He was hearing rumblings that House Democrats might vote against this TAA bill, which would essentially provide financial assistance to workers around the country who lose their jobs due to outsourcing. That trade assistance bill went down in flames. The House Democratic leader, Nancy Pelosi, came out against it in a very long speech there on the House floor that we just watched within the last hour, and this is despite the fact that the White House yesterday, Josh Earnest, the press secretary was saying, if you vote against trade assistance for these workers around the country, there's no guarantee Republicans will bring it up again.

So just to, you know, pull out the alphabet soup here for you, Brooke, the way this was packaged, unless TAA was passed, there was not going to be a binding TPA, which is that trade authority that would have given the president fast track authority to negotiate these trade deals on their own. So without TAA, there's no TPA. So basically you can say the president's trade agenda is TBA, because at this point they don't have both of these things packaged together for the president to sign and it's really back to the drawing board for this president.

He wanted this. he had sought this for six long years, Brooke, because he wanted to put together this transpacific trade deal with 11 other countries around the world, including Japan, in an effort to sell products, like American cars, in Tokyo, lowering trade barriers. That's been the pitch from the president. But he could just not get House Democrats to come on board despite going out to the congressional baseball game last night, despite going up to Capitol Hill today, the president has struck out, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Jim Acosta, please keep us updated. If any new developments, we'll pop you in front of the camera there at the White House and put you on TV.

ACOSTA: You bet.

BALDWIN: Thank you so much for the latest on the trade bill. Meantime, let's talk about this manhunt because today we have more

breaking news. New leads in the hunt for these two maximum security prison inmates who police now say are on the run together and we're about to go live to the scene where now you have 800 officers, they're tracking leads and a swarm of police activity is now being reported.

But as this manhunt is heating up, so does this investigation into just how Richard Matt and David Sweat were able to tunnel their way to freedom through a tangle of pipes and underground pathways. It turns out this female prison worker gave the men the hacksaw blades, the drill bits and even eyeglasses with lights attached, all according to sources familiar with this case. Why? Well, it seemed she may have been in some kind of relationship, not just with one of these two, but both of them.

[14:05:09] Let's go live to Jason Carroll, where he has an update on this whole search.

The sandwich shop, far from the prison, investigators are there. I'm hearing choppers are up swirling in the sky. What are they looking for? What are they seeing?

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the massive manhunt is still very much underway, as you can imagine. When you talked about that sandwich shop, that's actually located inside a gas station, Maple Fields gas station, and the bloodhounds picked up the scent of both of them at that particular location, located just about an hour - excuse me, located just about a mile or so away from that prison.

So what - why were they there? Perhaps to pick up - trying to get some food. Perhaps trying to get some supplies. Going through the dumpster, looking in there as well. They're checking out the security cameras, Brooke, to try and determine if there might be any leads at that particular location. Bloodhounds also picking up the scent here.

And this particular area, where we see behind me, Route 374, still shut down, a section of it. as you know it was shut down yesterday. Portions of it shut down again today. Bloodhounds picking up on that particular site where perhaps these two had been bedding down for a short period of time.

You know, in terms of what day that was, that still is yet to be determined. But they found those wrappers there. Wrappers that still seem to match the wrappers used in the commissary at the prison. So what they're doing is, they're just honing in, focusing in on any leads that they can get here. The perimeter that was once established has been narrowed in some ways, so they're focusing down in the (INAUDIBLE). You talk about some of the helicopter activity. That's because what you have is you have a lot of people here who live in this rural area who are calling in when they see something suspicious. You've got a massive team of law enforcement that's out here. They move in to check it out. So that's why you keep hearing reports of helicopters in one particular area or another.

Brooke.

BALDWIN: Jason Carroll, thank you so much. We'll loop back with you.

Speaking of those helicopters let me bring in Sierra Armstrong. She's one the phone. She lives in Cadyville. She's very close to this search.

So, Sierra, I mean, we keep getting reports of pops of action in different parts of where, you know, your neighborhood. Tell me what you're seeing right now.

SIERRA ARMSTRONG, CHOPPERS FLYING OVER HOME (via telephone): As of right now, I mean, I have been home from work for about an hour and a half, close to two hours, and from the time I pulled into my driveway up until now, there has been - I can't tell if it's more than one helicopter, but I know that there is at least one helicopter that has been flying back and forth. And from what I can tell, it seems to me like they are flying back and forth kind of along the power lines. Kind of where the power lines end is right next to my house, which is on Route 3, and then they - straight across from my house there is another set of power lines and they seem to go ahead and follow that. You know, right now, for example, there's one that's flying kind of towards the Truto (ph) Road area, which is one of the other roads that is closed off, as well as (INAUDIBLE) Road and they seem to be flying kind of in that direction as well.

BALDWIN: So the areas you're describing, we're looking at aerial pictures and it's incredibly wooded, you know, farmland, from what I can gather. Is that the area around your home and these cabins, these seasonal cabins we're hearing about and the fact that hopefully, for the most part, most of them are empty if these two have this idea of, you know, holing up in one of them.

ARMSTRONG: Yes, I mean, where I'm located, I'm right on Route 3. But Bucks Corners Road (ph) goes directly behind my house. It is definitely my back yard. The only thing, you know, kind of keeping me from being right on top of that road is a small brook. So Bucks Corners Road goes right behind my house and then, if you were going up Route 3, on the left-hand side there's the entrance to Bucks Corners Road and then just a little ways up is the entrance to Truto Road, which Truto Road is, like I said, the one that's closed off. It leads you from, you know, Route 3 to 374.

BALDWIN: So at nighttime - I was listening to state police yesterday saying, you know, to all of you who live in the area, keep those floodlights on, you know, outside your homes. If you notice a window in a car that's shattered, you know, any little anything, call police. Is that what you and people in the neighborhood have been doing?

ARMSTRONG: Absolutely. I know, you know, me, for example, we have every outside light on on our house, as well as we have a front shed in the front yard and we try to see if we could keep that light on. All the doors are locked. You know, they tell you, you know, inside lights, you know, any rooms that anybody would be able to see into, keep those lights off. You know, definitely the inside lights, try to keep those dimmed. So make it look like somebody's home.

You know, everybody in the area is definitely - everybody's scared, everybody's worried. So, you know, this is an area where people typically don't lock their doors. We - you don't worry about anybody coming into your house. It's a small town. It's a small area. You know, we never keep our outside lights on or lock our doors at night or even during the day. I mean I'm home right now. I've got every door locked and I still have the outside lights on during the day.

[14:10:17] BALDWIN: My goodness. I can't say I blame you, Sierra.

ARMSTRONG: So, I mean -

BALDWIN: I can't say I blame you one little bit.

ARMSTRONG: Yes.

BALDWIN: Hopeful this thing ends soon and peacefully and they catch these two. But for now, Sierra Armstrong, thanks for hopping on the phone with me. We're thinking, of course, of all of you in this area where the search has really heated up.

I want to bring in Lenny DePaul, former commander of the U.S. Marshal Service Regional Fugitive Task Force for both New York and New Jersey.

I mean it is your former - this is your former task force.

LENNY DEPAUL, FORMER COMMANDER, U.S. MARSHAL SERVICE N.Y./N.J. REGIONAL TASK FORCE: It is.

BALDWIN: So when you look at the pictures and you're hearing that, you know, there's chopper activity along one stretch along the power lines, according to Sierra, help us understand exactly what their eyeballs are trained on.

DEPAUL: Well, basically - and it is an intense manhunt and it's picked up a little bit and hopefully the dog scents are accurate and all this intel that's inbound to these investigators is spot on. Having several hundred investigators out there on their perimeter is huge. The perimeter's tightening. That's a good sign. If aviation support is locating something, maybe they're using thermal imaging or flare -

BALDWIN: That's what we're hearing, thermal imaging, yes.

DEPAUL: OK. You know, but that too picks up on dogs and bears and there's black bear in those mounts so -

BALDWIN: Wildlife, of course.

DEPAUL: Absolutely. So they, you know, but they can't rule anything out. So, let's hope that's the case.

BALDWIN: So you're the - you're the second person to say it's a good thing that the perimeter is shrinking, but you are also, here we are, what, day seven saying you're a little bit playing the what if game, right?

DEPAUL: Oh, I always played the what if game when I was working.

BALDWIN: Let's play the what if game. What are you thinking?

DEPAUL: Well, what if - well, let's go back to Ms. Mitchell. If, in fact, all of those allegations come back to fruition, and apparently they are, and that's an investigation that I would have nothing to do with.

BALDWIN: Right.

DEPAUL: You know, we're manhunters, the U.S. Marshals, and we're supporting the state troopers. But what if she was lying? What if somebody did pick them up? What if she was told by them to fake a panic attack, go to a hospital? You've got to - you can't rule anything out. I mean they're not in custody yet. So let's play that game.

What if the dogs are having a bad day? What if somebody planted something out there in the woods prior to it. It took them months to come up with this plan. So - and they did a pretty good job of escaping, so there might be a plan b and c. And, again, this is just my gut feeling as an investigator.

BALDWIN: Yes.

DEPAUL: And they're not in custody, so you can't rule anything out.

BALDWIN: So how long can someone's scent stick around?

DEPAUL: Apparently a long time with these molecules that are in the air. They can even detect whether or not these guys were having a bad day, these dogs. They're fabulous I'm not a K-9 handler. I just, you know, been around a little bit and I've heard some stories about bloodhounds and whatnot. So, yes, I mean, they pick up on a scent. They see a footprint. They take it a little further. They've got some fresh prints, stumble onto an area where somebody was bedded down. It appears to be these guys. There's wrappers that are consistent with the jail wrappers that are around food.

BALDWIN: Right.

DEPAUL: So, yes, everything looks great. And as an investigator, I'm getting a little excited out there if I'm there, you know?

BALDWIN: OK.

DEPAUL: And, again, with all this intel coming in and everything, it all - it all fits. However, you can't - you certainly - they're not in custody yet and they could be anywhere. And the public needs to know that. I mean -

BALDWIN: No, I'm thinking of Sierra and the people who live in the area.

DEPAUL: Right.

BALDWIN: Here it is now, broad daylight. She said, listen, this is not the kind of place where we have to lock our doors, but every single door at, you know, 2:00 in the afternoon for her, is locked.

Lenny, will you stick around?

DEPAUL: Absolutely. Sure.

BALDWIN: I have more for you ahead here. We will take you live inside a chopper. We were talking about this infrared imaging. We will show you exactly how this works during these types of searches, see how they are hunting for these two escaped killers. We'll walk you through it.

Plus, did she fake her race? A couple says this NAACP president is actually a white woman. How do they know? She's their daughter. And it has everyone talking today. We'll talk to an NAACP board member about this, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:17:59] BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Let me tell you about Rachel Dolezal. She is a local chapter president of the NAACP in Spokane, Washington. She is an Africana (ph) studies professor and a well-known civil rights advocate. But according to her family, she's also white but passing for black. This is the 37-year- old Montana native. On the left side of your screen, a family photo of Rachel as a young girl. And to the right, this is what Rachel looks like today.

Here's the deal, she is accused of misrepresenting major portions of her life after she identified herself as African-American on an application to work on a city commission. When asked directly about her ethnicity by a local reporter, this is what happened.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was wondering if your dad really is an African- American man.

RACHEL DOLEZAL, PRESIDENT, SPOKANE NAACP: That's a very - I mean I don't - I don't know what you're implying.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you African-American?

DOLEZAL: I don't - I don't understand the question.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are your parents, are they white?

DOLEZAL: I'm not - I -

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Later, Dolezal tried to explain to a local paper saying, quote, "that question is not as easy as it seems. There's a lot of complexities and I don't know that everyone would understand that."

Earlier today, here on CNN, Dolezal's parents told us they cannot explain why she would lie.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LAWRENCE DOLEZAL, RACHEL DOLEZAL'S FATHER: We are - we're confirming the truth. We are her birth parents and we do not understand why she feels it's necessary to misrepresent her ethnicity.

RUTHANNE DOLEZAL, RACHEL DOLEZAL'S MOTHER: And she has never claimed to be biracial or African-American in our presence. A lot of people knew that Rachel was white and for a while it seemed like she was just doing more of - artistic expressive representation of her identifying with African-Americans by doing her hair in extensions and things like that. But when it started to be claims that she was African-American, then as family we didn't - we didn't take the initiative to report her doing that. But there were many other people from her hometown and from an area that knew that she was not African-American and no one of them spoke up either.

L. DOLEZAL: And they were just puzzled.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So part of that interview, these parents said they haven't spoken with their daughter, but they say they love her. They just want her to be honest.

Joining me now, John Gaskin, a national board member of the NAACP and a St. Louis based community activist.

John, welcome back to the show.

JOHN GASKIN, NATIONAL BOARD MEMBER, NAACP: Thank you for having me again.

BALDWIN: So before we chat, let me just read this statement. This is issued by your organization supporting Rachel's advocacy record. It reads, "Rachel Dolezal is enduring a legal issue with her family and we respect her privacy in this matter. One's racial identity is not a qualifying criteria or disqualifying standard for NAACP leadership."

That said, John, should she lose her job?

GASKIN: So, Brooke, let me say this. I'm speaking as an individual and for your audience, not as a representative of the NAACP. But I will say this much, if you take a look at the founders of the NAACP, many of them happen to be white. If you look across this country, many leaders in leadership in the NAACP, more than you would think, also happen to be various colors and come from various backgrounds. And so the NAACP allows anyone to be in leadership and join the organization, regardless of their sexual orientation or color, that is truly passionate about civil rights and wants to advance our agenda.

You know, if you read up on this individual, a professor of Africana studies, you take a look at her hair, this is possibly someone who may very well identify most with African-Americans. I don't know a whole lot about her personal life or who her personal colleagues are, but what I have gathered is that she is someone who is advocating for civil rights and is very passionate about civil rights and social justice.

BALDWIN: Absolutely, hearing you loud and clear. Here's my follow up to that. If she was forthright and, listen, we still don't have all the answers here.

GASKIN: Exactly.

BALDWIN: If she was forthright when she was running, this is an elected position, I think that's one thing. But if she were to have misrepresented herself, either by saying she was black or by omitting the fact that she was white, would that be grounds for her no longer holding her post?

GASKIN: Well, to be honest with you, that - you know, that is up to that community. You know, this is someone who obviously was elected by the people within that community to lead a local branch. Obviously, people within that community have respect for her and the issues that she's advocating for.

And so I think we have to look at the bigger picture here is the fact that I don't think, you know, if we look at the day and age that we're living in, if you look back a year ago, had we not been in the racial climate that we're in right now, I don't even think this would have made national news. If we take a look at what's going on in America today, I think we have to look at ourselves in the mirror and realize that it shouldn't matter what color people are. If they're about civil rights, if they're about advancing the civil rights agenda in this country, they should not have to - they shouldn't have to feel that they need to lie about who they are because they need to be fearful -

BALDWIN: Right. Right. And I think that's why it's making - that's, John, I think why it's making the headlines and why I would disagree and say it would have made news a years ago, the whole notion of misrepresenting ones self. I agree with you that if you are for civil rights and acting as a leader in your community, more power to you.

But let me - let me just ask you this. In an NAACP capacity, if someone wants to become a chapter president, what is the vetting process?

GASKIN: Right. So you have - you know, there's an entire process locally, within a local branch, if someone wants to run. There are various committees, nominating committees, et cetera. And so the NAACP, obviously, has its own set of rules and procedures for an election. As to what took place there locally, I'm sure there are individuals that knew this person, that knew her track record, that knew her work and came up with that decision.

BALDWIN: OK. I know people have a lot of questions still on this one but, for now, John Gaskin, thank you so much, a national board member of the NAACP, St. Louis-based community activist, thank you so much.

We have more on this next hour, I promise you. In the meantime, we've got to get back to our breaking news. [14:24:45] A woman just told me there's some major activity above her

home in upstate New York here. The search for these two escaped killers. We are just getting word investigators are now looking at the female worker's husband. Those new details, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Bottom of the hour here on this Friday afternoon. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Here's the new breaking detail on this whole manhunt looking for these two escaped killers in upstate New York out of the Clinton Correctional Facility. So you already know about Joyce Mitchell. She is the female civilian worker who, as we've now learned from sources, apparently not only was friendly, shall we say, with both of these two, apparently also provided a hacksaw, drill bits and other items for them. We have new information now about potentially her husband.

I have Randi Kaye, my colleague, standing by who's just talked to the district attorney there.

And, Randi Kaye, what did he share with you as far as this woman's husband is concerned?

[14:29:57] RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Brooke, we're talking about Lyle Mitchell. And I just spoke to the district attorney here in Clinton County, Andrew Wylie, and he told me that Lyle Mitchell is being looked at in this case of the escapees. I asked him point blank, was Lyle Mitchell involved?