Return to Transcripts main page


New Documents Released in the Investigation into Shooting of Tamir Rice; Search for Escaped Prisoners Continues; Four Shot, Killed in Columbus. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired June 14, 2015 - 06:30   ET



VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: New documents have been released in the investigation into the deadly police shooting of 12-year-old Tamir Rice. A grand jury will study the report and decide whether or not to indict the officers involved.

PAUL: This just days after a judge said he does believe that there's enough evidence to move forward with charges. CNN's Martin Savidge is getting really deep into the latest findings of this investigation now.


MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The investigation by Cayahoga Sheriff's Department seems to confirm the story most people know, but delivers greater detail. In a key finding, the report cannot confirm a police officer's statement he shouted orders to Rice before shooting him. Instead saying, according to witness interviews, it is unclear whether Officer Loehmann shouted verbal commands from inside the zone car to Rice, who was located inside of the gazebo area, prior to discharging his weapon.

Investigators found Loehmann shot one to two seconds after getting out of his car, firing two shots, one that hit the boy, who was standing four and a half to seven feet away.

The documents also revealed moments after the shooting, Officer Frank Garmback requested EMS, then asked for EMS again, telling them to, quote, step it up. Then in a third request, asked for Cleveland fire to respond. It would take eight minutes for an ambulance to arrive.

The report does say that Rice was given first aid by an FBI agent trained as a paramedic, who arrived four minutes after the shooting. The agent, whose name is blacked out, told investigates Rice quote, turned over and acknowledged and looked at me, and he like reached for my hand.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's right there by the, you know, youth center or whatever.

SAVIDGE: The sheriff's department also investigated the 911 call, reporting a male on the playground threatening with an apparent gun. The report reveals the caller was drinking a beer in the park, waiting for on a bus.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's scaring the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) out of people.

SAVIDGE: He told the police operator the suspect could be a juvenile, and the gun was probably fake. Critical information never given to the responding police officers.

When the dispatch was asked why that information wasn't passed along, the report says she went silent, saying she refused to answer questions per her attorney.

The investigation says Rice got the pellet gun from his best friend, trading a cell phone for it. The friend told investigators the orange ring identified the gun as not real had been removed during a repair, and he couldn't get it back on.

In numerous statements, officers and emergency responders who saw the weapon next to Rice say they thought it was real. They also said Rice appeared much older and larger than a child, offering age estimates between 16 and 20, and that he looked about 200 pounds. It's only when Rice's sister arrives on the scene they learn he is 12.

Officers and emergency workers also describe Loehmann's demeanor as upset and distraught. One officer said Loehmann told him quote, "he gave me no choice, he reached for the gun, and there was nothing I could do."

SAVIDGE: There are some things noticeably absent in this report. For instance, both first responding police officers declined to be interviewed, as did Tamir Rice's family. And nowhere in the 224 pages does it draw a specific conclusion as to whether the shooting was justified or not.

Martin Savidge, CNN, Cleveland.


CHRISTI PAUL, CNN ANCHOR: Let's get some more insight and bring back CNN law enforcement analyst, Cedric Alexander. Cedric, thank you so much for being here. When you hear all of these take-aways from the report, what's the first thing you think of?

CEDRIC ALEXANDER, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: What's really interesting about this case, being that this investigation is now over, there are a lot of questions that are being raised and questions of a significant and quite frankly very significant to this case, in regards to what took place that particular day. But I'm really rather thrown aback in the sense of the fact that that 911 operator did not deliver certain information to those patrol vehicles that were responding to that scene. There's still a lot of work yet to be done in this case, Christie, and I think as they continue to go forward, particularly the district attorney's office there, there are a lot of questions that still have to be answered in all fairness to everyone involved in this case.

PAUL: The fact they're saying this air pistol looked very real, that that orange tip that distinguishes fake from real could not be reattached, does that bolster the officers in any way, their arguments and their defense?

ALEXANDER: That's always going to get down to a matter of perception as a matter of what occurred in those final seconds of Tamir Rice's life. Those final seconds when that officer pulled up to that scene. You know, oftentimes you like to see markings on these weapons so it can differentiate between what's real and what's not. However, in this particular case, I think there's just so much work left to be done. But whatever those officers' perception was, they're going to have to be able to articulate their observations, their thoughts as they arrived up on that scene. So here again, there's still a lot of work left to be done in spite of the investigation that has been delivered. There's still many more questions that need to be answered, and will be answered I'm quite sure with time.

PAUL: Right. One of the other things I think that stood out to people is the fact that these police didn't immediately render first aid to Rice. But apparently that's because they say they don't carry first aid kits in the car, and they're not trained to do so beyond CPR. Do you think that's a problem that needs to be addressed? Is that common amongst police officers and departments across the country?

ALEXANDER: Well, we certainly have been hearing more about aid that is rendered to subjects when police officers -- a police officer is involved in a shooting. And I think that's going to continue to be a question. There is certain training that police officers receive, both during their academy time and in service training as well too. But the magnitude of that training, the in-depthness of that training may vary of course from community to community. So how much training they may have acquired, or felt they should have been able to apply to young Tamir Rice's life, that too is going to become a contested piece in all of this as this investigation continues to further itself as well too. A lot of questions still to be answered in this case.

PAUL: Cedric, thank you so much. We appreciate it. Listen, we have a lot more on this newly-released report. During our next hour, we're speaking with the attorney for Tamir Rice's family.

BLACKWELL: Well, the brazen escape plan by two prisoners and their accomplice has been revealed. We'll tell you what their initial plans were and why they fell apart. Also next, a criminal profiler helps us understand the psychology of an escape.



PAUL: 41 minutes past the hour. And new details this morning about the escape plan of two inmates in upstate New York. Look here. This is the mug shot of prison worker, Joyce Mitchell. She's accused of helping the pair break out. BLACKWELL: CNN has learned that Mitchell was going to meet the

prisoners at a power station not far from the Clinton correctional facility. They were going to then drive to an area about seven hours out of town. But Mitchell revealed to investigators she could not go through with it because she loves her husband.

PAUL: In the meantime, more than 800 law enforcement officers are on the lookout for these two, and the search area is being extended east as that manhunt now -- think about this -- goes into the ninth day.

BLACKWELL: There are so many questions in the search as this continues, including some that are just psychological. So let's delve deeper into the mind-set of not just the escapees but also Joyce Mitchell. Joining us now is criminal profiler Pat Brown.

Pat, good to have you, and I want to start with Joyce Mitchell. Because she is showing, we understand, from the D.A. and from sources close to the investigation, that she is remorseful, she says she loves her husband. But I wonder how she can go from an employee who works in the tailoring shop to then helping craft this plan, reportedly.

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: The first problem, Victor, is believing anything she says. I mean, after all, she committed a crime, she committed a felony. She helped two killers go out onto the street where they may kill other citizens. So is she a trustworthy person? Should we believe her when we say this is what the plan was? That we were going to go seven hours, do we believe that, do we believe she didn't go with them because she loves her husband? Really? I mean, this is the kind of stuff that you start saying after you've been caught. That's certainly the kind of things that your lawyer will tell you to start saying so you can become a little more sympathetic. And now all this remorseful stuff. You know, was she remorseful when she was doing what she was doing? Or only now that she's been caught?

BLACKWELL: So you discount all that, you discount all that we're hearing now, because she's just trying to save her own hide?

BROWN: I absolutely believe that, yes. She got caught. So I mean, you know, people want to think that because she's a female, that suddenly she fell in love and she couldn't help herself. And that's just ridiculous. We have -- for example, take a teenage girl who has a boyfriend, and she says to that boyfriend, hey, kill my parents so we can be together. And he kills the parents. Do we say the same things about him, he couldn't help himself? No. But since it's a female, we say oh, her emotions got the better of her.

What probably went on is she has a narcissistic personality disorder. She's always had this. It's always been about her and excitement and the attention she gets. I'm going to say we're going to see a history that we just don't know about yet.

BLACKWELL: Let's not let off the convicted killers in this case and the escapees. Is there a grooming process that begins to get someone to find that person who maybe, as you say, has this narcissistic personality to help in this plan? BROWN: Sure. When you're a good psychopath, you know how to

manipulate people. Yes. You also look for people who have needs. Essentially you can't make somebody do something that doesn't have a need.


So they look for somebody who has the need for attention, who has the need for excitement, who has the need for whatever they have a need for. They start honing in on them. It's kind of like a sales person. You can't sell somebody a car who doesn't want a car. But you can find a person who wants a car and you can say, OK, I'm going to put all my efforts over there. So I'm sure, yes, they did target her because she probably showed them that she was a good person to work with.

BLACKWELL: In your experience, we get this report -- and let's just for the sake of the question say that they indeed, Sweat and Matt, told Joyce Mitchell that they were going to drive seven hours. Would that be accurate? Typically would these escapees tell her exactly what is going to happen?

BROWN: Not necessarily. Obviously they're going to tell her whatever they can in order to get her to do whatever they want. But we can't believe her either. So the problem is we have essentially a set of criminals, we have the two criminals that are on the loose and the one criminal that's been caught. Who do we believe? I don't know. Unless we have some evidence to back up exactly what she was saying, we just don't know. And she could be misleading the investigators or she could be telling the truth and they could be misleading her. So we don't know.

BLACKWELL: So many fascinating elements of this as this search now continues going into its second week. Pat Brown, thank you so much.

BROWN: Thanks.

PAUL: Ohio authorities are looking for a suspect in a quadruple killing. And they say a fifth victim who survived may still be in danger. We have a live report for you from Columbus in a moment.



PAUL: We're working on a developing story out of Columbus, Ohio this morning. Four people were shot and killed. And the person who killed them is still on the loose. We're joined on the phone by Michelle Newell. She is a reporter with WSYX there in Columbus. And Michelle, I read that one of the police detectives says, "we obviously have a homicidal suspect out here who's not afraid to kill somebody." What do you know about how far this investigation has gone into who they're looking for?

MICHELLE NEWELL, WSYX REPORTER (via phone): At this point they are still investigating. They're saying they do not have any suspect information, but they are still looking for the killer. As far as the investigation goes, there's autopsies planned this morning for those four victims. And what detectives are telling us is they do believe it was a possible robbery, but they say they are still investigating. So remaining very tight-lipped, but a lot of questions people want answers to.

PAUL: Obviously this fifth person, who as I understand it, she was found in an alleyway. Was she shot as well?

NEWELL: She was shot as well. Police aren't telling us she's connected, but they believe she could be. And they are actually hoping that she will be someone to help them lead them to the killer.

PAUL: But again, you're hearing this is a possible robbery, is that right?

NEWELL: Yes, yes. They're saying they are thinking it's a possible robbery, but they are still investigating.

PAUL: So they don't think this was a domestic issue? When you hear normally about four people shot in the same house, (inaudible), you go domestic, but that is not what they believe?

NEWELL: That is not what they believe. It's really interesting, because yesterday I talked to a lot of people who live across the street from where this shooting happened. There were so many people that came out at the scene, and a lot of the people kept saying there was a lot of drug activity that happened in that house, there were drug deals and different things that went on. Police wouldn't tell us anything about that, but they would at least say that they think it could be a possible robbery. So a lot of speculation.

PAUL: Go ahead-- oh, I was going to say, the police, as I understand it, have gone into the house. There has been a search warrant. When do they plan to give any updates? At the end of the day, there is someone out there, as this detective said, who is not afraid to kill people.

NEWELL: Absolutely. Absolutely. Yesterday they were armed with cameras and evidence kits. They searched all throughout the house. And a police officer actually just told us this morning they found the bodies in the basement. And detectives are saying they're still at the very beginning stages of the investigation. They're actually now asking the public for help. They're asking for people if they were around the area around 7:00 a.m. when this shooting happened, to call the police, call the homicide unit, call crime stoppers, so they're really asking the public to help also.

PAUL: All right, Michelle Newell, we so appreciate the update this morning. Thank you very much.

NEWELL: Absolutely. Thank you.

PAUL: Sure.

BLACKWELL: The father of a Dallas shooting suspect tells us his son was angry and desperate. We're going to play for you a bit of the interview in which this father describes the hours with his son before this all began this weekend in Dallas.

And "Jurassic World," the latest in the sci-fi movie series is on pace to having one of the biggest opening weekend ever. How big are the numbers? We'll tell you after the break.



BLACKWELL: Here's a look at stories making headlines now. Time about three minutes before the top of the hour. Passengers on a United flight sat and they were fuming. Inside old barracks in Goose Bay, Canada for 20 hours.

PAUL: Twenty hours. Their plane was headed from Chicago to London. It developed some mechanical problems, apparently, and had to divert to an emergency landing. Passengers complained there were few blankets and no heat. I looked at Victor and I said, it is June. How cold is it there? Well, in their defense, apparently today the high is only 41. So United finally put them on another flight and they did refund their money.

BLACKWELL: That's good.

PAUL: Yes. A wedding reception ended with a gunshot at the Waldorf Astoria in New York, one of the world's most famous hotels, obviously. Police say people were taking pictures in the lobby, when a guest had a gun in his pocket and it accidentally discharged. The bullet ricocheted, grazing a woman's head. She was not seriously hurt, thankfully. Three other people were hit by flying glass. No word as to whether that guest will face any charges, though. But apparently everybody was asked to leave at 10:00 p.m. They had had enough of the shenanigans.


PAUL: Everybody was done.

TV host Katie Couric. She's smiling, right? (INAUDIBLE). Couric renewed her contract as the global anchor for Yahoo! News. Her reported salary, $10 million. That's up from six million. Yahoo! says she'll have to hit a few targets apparently in order to reach that figure. But the $6 million one is not so bad either, right?

BLACKWELL: Nice jump, though.

PAUL: Yes.

BLACKWELL: Welcome to "Jurassic World."

PAUL: They should hire you. You've got the voice.

BLACKWELL: I'll take the job.

PAUL: I love it.

BLACKWELL: Millions of Americans are flooding into theaters to see this movie. It is the latest in the series, of course. It looks like a blockbuster, now on track to rake in $180 million by the end of this weekend. And that would make it one of Hollywood's biggest opening weekends ever.

PAUL: Good luck to them.

BLACKWELL: New details this morning in the Dallas shooting. Thanks for staying with us. New details this morning in Dallas as the police department tries to get back to normal. Shattered glass, bullet holes, and now hear from the man who says his son was behind this shooting attack.

PAUL: Nine days on the run. Yes, we are in day nine. Police in New York are still trying to find these two escaped prison inmates. Ramping things up today. This morning, what these convicts had planned to do once they escaped.