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New Day Sunday

Police: Dallas Shootout Suspect Had a Record of Domestic Violence; Prison Escape Plan; Hillary Clinton Rallies in Iowa Today; LeBron James is Ready for Tonight's Game. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired June 14, 2015 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CHRISTI PAUL, CNN ANCHOR: The father there of James Boulware, was with his son just hours before he attacked the Dallas Police Department.

[08:00:00] Insight into that man that only a father could give.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Nine days on the run now. Are police in New York any closer to finding the two escaped prison inmates? Well, this morning, what these convicts had reportedly planned to do once they escaped.

PAUL: And destination Iowa. Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders making a strong push today as primary season kicks into high gear.

Good morning. We are so grateful for your company as always. I'm Christi Paul.

BLACKWELL: I'm Victor Blackwell, always a pleasure to be with you.

Let's start with the investigation and the investigators in Dallas who are now -- and this is interesting -- digitally mapping the crime scene where suspect James Boulware allegedly unleashed his violent attack on police officers this weekend. Before he was shot and killed in his van during a standoff that followed. You see the end of it here.

Officials are expected to hold a press conference with new details on the investigation very soon. Of course, we'll bring you the latest right here on CNN live when it happens.

PAUL: You know who is talking is Boulware's father. He did speak to CNN giving us a better sense of who his son was. Now he says he knew that his son was angry with police. And that he was even desperate. But he never expected anything like this to happen.

CNN's Sara Sidner is live in Dallas with more of her emotional interview with his man.

Hi, Sara. What stuck with you when you sat down with him?

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Christi. You know, he was really deeply emotional, as anyone would be when they lose a child. But he was very matter of fact about what happened, and said that police had every right to do what they did to his son.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JIM BOULWARE, SUSPECT'S FATHER: Every one of us has a breaking point, every one of us.

SIDNER (on camera): Did your son hit his breaking point?

BOULWARE: He hit his breaking point.

SIDNER (voice-over): Jim Boulware is teetering on the edge himself, filled with grief after his son James attacked police and was killed for it. He says James was the man behind the attack on the Dallas police headquarters.

Three hours before the attack, he was sitting right here with his dad.

BOULWARE: He told me he loved me and he was going back to West Texas. And I told him, have a safe trip.

SIDNER: But that is not what happened. Before the sun came up, James Boulware was dead, killed by a police sniper after threatening to blow police up for taking his child. He could have. His van was laden with explosives that police eventually detonated.

BOULWARE: He left from here. He mowed my yard yesterday, edged it. Told me he was going to be back in ten days to mow it again.

SIDNER (on camera): Did you have any idea when he left?

BOULWARE: No. No. I knew he was angry at police. He blamed them for taking his son.

I tried to tell him the police didn't do it. The police were doing their job to enforce the laws. If you want to get to that, you've got to go back to the liberal people that put these laws in place to where CPS now can grab kids out of the way from them (ph). They are just enforcing the laws.

SIDNER (voice-over): James Boulware had recently lost custody of his son to his own mother, the boy's grandmother. A family fight in 2013 preceded the custody battle.

BOULWARE: His mother, her half brother and James had a fight in her house.

SIDNER: James Boulware was arrested in Paris, Texas, for multiple assault charges on family members. The charges were eventually dropped.

BOULWARE: When he was here, he said, "Dad, I've lost my house, my tools, my son. I'm going through every dime I've got. I can't find a job because I've got domestic violence on my record." He said, "I've lost everything." And then you have hopelessness.

SIDNER (on camera): Why didn't he get some help? BOULWARE: Where? Where does a white male get help?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SIDNER: We asked him if he thought his son was a domestic terrorist, which is a word, a phrase that has been used for his son after what he did. And he absolutely denied that. He said he was a man who was crushed, who was angry, because his child had been taken away from him.

We also want to mention that the ATF, the FBI, and police did show up at his father's house and his fair said he signed something to let them in, and search his property. They went through his home. They went through his trash. They were certainly looking for any other evidence there -- Christi.

PAUL: You know, Sara, such a good reminder this interview with him that this is a man who has a lot to reconcile himself and that this hurts the frame family as anybody else.

Thank you so much, Sara. I appreciate it.

BLACKWELL: Let's talk more about this with Mary Ellen O'Toole. She's a former senior FBI profiler and former FBI special agent.

[08:05:01] Mary Ellen, thank you so much.

And I want to start with just your broad reaction to what you heard from Jim Boulware.

MARY ELLEN O'TOOLE, FORMER SENIOR FBI PROFILER: Well, considering that's his father, it makes sense that he's very, you know, upset about losing his son. So, his perspective is what I would expect. I am -- and I've seen this in cases that I've worked. The family will normalize behavior, even behavior that's very violent, and they'll rationalize their child's behavior, or they'll tell you I just never saw it coming, which is what we heard here. And it's typically.

BLACKWELL: I wonder, though, what is the added variable here? I mean, there are people who have a mistrust of government, who have a palpable anger directed toward law enforcement, and feel desperate. But, they don't go to this extreme. Is there one common variable that elevates it to which family and loved ones should then say we need to call authorities?

O'TOOLE: I think there is. And in looking at these cases, there's a phenomenon that we've identified, it's called an injustice collector. And these are individuals who go through their life collecting injustices. It's always everybody else's fault.

But they stand apart in this way. When you look at them and say are you an injustice collector who's dangerous or not, what you look at is to see, in previous circumstances, conflicts, was there response disproportionate to what happened?

So, in other words, you go back in their history when they've been collecting injustices and how have they acted? Has that been disproportionate to what they feel was done to them.

In this case looking at his history and background, he is a dangerous injustice collector. He has responded in the past in ways that are very, very over the top. So, you can expect that type of behavior in the future. And I think that that really has set him apart, and that's almost predictive, and when we see that, that's the time to become very concerned. And that's what the family missed.

BLACKWELL: Mary Ellen, we've got just a few seconds left. But I want you to kind of look at this from the perspective of a former FBI special agent. The suspect is dead. The threat has been eliminated. I wonder, how long do you expect this investigation to go on?

O'TOOLE: Well, it will go on for probably a number of days, if not longer. What they'll do is they'll have to recreate what happened, because they're going to study it. And they're going to identify certain points in the case, and how it evolved, and how it escalated, because it will be excellent training material for the next time that this happens, which is unfortunate, but, that's what they'll be looking for other people that could have assisted him in preparing for this.

They will take whatever time it's necessary to get all the information and to learn exactly how this happened.

BLACKWELL: Yes. And they are, as we heard from the chief, trying to reassess and re-examine security elements there in the department.

Former senior FBI profiler, and former special agent with the FBI, Mary Ellen O'Toole -- always good to have you.

O'TOOLE: Thank you.

PAUL: I want to share with you now some new details this morning in the hunt for convicted killers Richard Matt and David Sweat. The search is in its ninth day and now it's shifting to the east. Take a look at this map and you can see what they're focusing on here.

The district attorney is now revealing new details coming from alleged accomplice Joyce Mitchell, number one, apparently the trio had plans to meet a few blocks from the jail, and two, then drive to a destination seven hours away.

Let's start with CNN investigations correspondent Sara Ganim, who is live in West Plattsburgh, New York.

And, Sara, as we understand it, seven hours away but in what direction? That is up for debate. Yes?

SARA GANIM, CNN INVESTIGATIONS CORRESPONDENT: That's right. I spoke to the D.A. last night. That's where this information came from. He said that Joyce Mitchell told this to authorities before she was arrested. I asked him, I said, what was the plan A? And he said, this was it. That they were to get in the car and drive at least seven hours away. But, Joyce Mitchell claims she didn't know the destination, that that

was something picked by the two convicts. All she knew was she was to pick them up at a certain time and place and to be ready for a long drive.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDREW WYLIE, DISTRICT ATOTRNEY, CLINTON COUNTY, NY: The information that we have looking at the statement is that they were going to meet down by the power plant, drive -- I'm not going to say into the sunset because it was after midnight and it was dark out. But they were going to drive to an area, potentially to an area that was about seven hours away. She never indicated to us where that location was. It was just the information that she was told by Matt and Sweat, that it was about seven hours away.

[08:10:01] She did indicate one of the reasons she didn't show up was because, you know, she did love her husband and she didn't want to do this to him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GANIM: Now, asked the district attorney if they're in contact with friends and relatives in other parts of the country who knew these two men, they said they are in contact with them but the two inmates are not. Which leads them to -- adds to their belief that they're still somewhere in this immediate area near the prison facilities.

And you can see around me. This is a very active search scene today, has been for nine days, continues. There are roadblocks, vehicle checks. No vehicle gets through this intersection without being searched.

We also talked -- the district attorney and I talked about planning. This was a very elaborate plan, obviously, but he said that something that has been learned in the last few days is that these inmates were practicing, potentially practicing, in the nights leading up to their escape, they were actually climbing into the walls to see where those pipes go so that they can get out as quickly as possible -- Christi.

PAUL: All right. Sara Ganim, we appreciate it. Thank you.

BLACKWELL: Competing Democratic rallies in Iowa today. Hillary Clinton is in Des Moines. Senator Bernie Sanders is in Waterloo. The tone is changing. We'll tell you how.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:15:03] BLACKWELL: Quarter after the hour now.

Hillary Clinton is rallying in Des Moines, Iowa, today while her competition, Senator Bernie Sanders, he's making an appearance in Waterloo. Now, let's talk about the context in which we go into this Sunday. Yesterday, Hillary Clinton set that tone in New York holding her first

major rally since she announced she was running. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You brought our country back. Now it's time, your time to secure the gains and move ahead. And you know what? America can't succeed unless you succeed.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

That is why I am running for president of the United States.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: All right. Let's get to our senior Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny. He is live in Des Moines, Iowa.

Jeff, a shift in tone and context. Are we expecting more of that today?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Victor, there's no question. I mean, Hillary Clinton is trying to present herself as a fighter for the middle class.

We heard in her speech yesterday, she's not focusing on the legacy of her husband's administration. She's focusing more on her entire biography and trying to present to voters why she would be a fighter for the middle class. Why she understands what people are going through. She presented herself as someone who doesn't back down from a challenge, who doesn't quit.

Of course, she saved a lot of time for some attacks on Republicans. This campaign without a question is going to be an economic one. She is really pressing on income inequality, and throughout that, she also touched every touchstone of the Democratic Party principles, a lot of liberal issues. She touched throughout that.

But, Victor, it's important to point out, she's not alone in this field. There's no question she's driving this race. She's the front- runner to the Democratic nomination. But she has some competition out here.

And yesterday, we caught up with Bernie Sanders in Marshalltown, Iowa.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: Since you are both candidates, how much do you plan to hold her accountable for her views or lack of views?

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Look, I suspect we're going to be in disagreement very often. That's what a campaign is supposed to be about. Let the American people judge. So, I will certainly be challenging her on a number of positions,

whether it is what we do with Wall Street, whether it's our foreign policy, whether how we take on the billionaire class. Whether how we move aggressively to transform our energy system. That's what a Democratic election is about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: Now she is entering a divided Democratic Party here. I mean, she's certainly the front-runner, but liberal Democrats want to hear more from her.

So, Bernie Sanders is really drawing hundreds and hundreds of people to his events as he campaigns in Iowa, New Hampshire, and other states. So that is what Hillary Clinton is confronting here.

And Iowa is the first place she must go to make this argument. She remembers so well how she placed third in the Iowa caucuses in 2008. So, she's trying to build this grassroots organization here.

But I can tell you, she has some competition with Bernie Sanders and Martin O'Malley, the former governor of Maryland. That's why she's coming here to Iowa today, New Hampshire tomorrow -- Victor.

BLACKWELL: All right. Jeff Zeleny for us in Des Moines -- Jeff, thank you so much.

Christi?

PAUL: And speaking of the Clintons, Bill Clinton is talking about his wife's presidential campaign on CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION." The show's new host Jake Tapper joining us next. And he's talking about this one-on-one interview he had with the former president.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:22:25] PAUL: Twenty-two minutes past the hour.

Former President Bill Clinton standing by his wife this morning and addressing her 2016 run for the White House with a new host of CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION," Jake Tapper, who's joining us now to talk about his big interview and the new gig.

And, Jake, I just want to say welcome to Sunday morning wake-up call!

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST, STATE OF THE UNION: Thank you, yes. It's quite an awakening. The 5:00 a.m. Sunday morning wake-up call. I appreciate it.

PAUL: Yes, it is, isn't it? All right. Talk to us about Bill Clinton in this interview.

TAPPER: Well, it was a wide-ranging interview. We talked about a lot of subjects, including ones near and dear to his work with the Clinton Global Initiative, about the economy and inner cities. But we also asked him, of course, about the Clinton foundation

controversies, about donations to the foundation and whether or not anyone expected anything in return for those donations. And then he talked about the attacks against his wife, and he thought that there was definitely something to see in the fact that these attacks were coming so early in the campaign.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT: I think when people go to personal attacks this far before the election, it means they're scared of you. And they should be. They -- she -- she'd be a very good president. And I think she's proven out to be a pretty good candidate. I'm very proud of that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: There's a lot, of course, a lot more Christi that he had to say about the donations, about the controversy, about the fact that according to polls, a majority of the American people do not find Hillary Clinton honest or trustworthy, although she is still favored somewhat quizzically in those same polls, Christi.

PAUL: So, what stuck with you most from this interview? Anything that surprised you?

TAPPER: He had a lot of emotional things to say about Hillary Clinton, about the fact that she's been a real rock in the family. And what was interesting is, it's not unusual for the spouse of the candidate to try to bring a human side. Usually, the gender dynamic is reversed.

But he seemed to be trying to fill that role in this interview, talking about how much she has meant to him on a personal level. It was something I'd never heard from him before.

PAUL: Hmm. It will be so interesting to see that. Jake Tapper, again, welcome to Sunday morning. Thank you so much. We're glad to be part of the team with you here on Sunday.

"STATE OF THE UNION" with Jake Tapper starting at the top of the hour, 9:00 a.m. Eastern, right here on CNN.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:28:50] BLACKWELL: Game five of the NBA finals tonight for the Cleveland Cavaliers and the Golden State Warriors.

PAUL: Rashan Ali has more on the bleacher report.

RASHAN ALI, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right. Well, there's something about taking it easy before a big game and LeBron James is doing just that. Stop what you're doing.

And take a look at this. Getting in a little practice on Saturday, the King sinks shot after shot with a back pack on guys. To say the Cavaliers are rested and ready is an understatement.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEBRON JAMES, CLEVELAND CAVALIERS: Well, any little rest you can get throughout a postseason run is -- I mean, it's like a life line. And you know, for us to be able to get this extra day to mentally and physically prepare for tomorrow night, or tomorrow day, is definitely helpful.

ALI: The wait is over with the series tied 2-2. Game five is tonight at 8:00 p.m.

BLACKWELL: Hopefully --

ALI: There you have it.

BLACKWELL: -- he's feeling better after that gash in the head he took with the camera --

ALI: He's fine. He's fine.

PAUL: He's a tough one.

BLACKWELL: I'm concerned.

ALI: Don't be concerned. He's good.

PAUL: Rashan, so good to see you.

ALI: Good to see you as well.

PAUL: Thank you so much. And thank you so much for making time for us this morning.

BLACKWELL: "INSIDE POLITICS WITH JOHN KING" starts right now.

PAUL: Go make some good memories.