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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Joyce Mitchell in Court; Rachel Dolezal Resigns from NAACP Post; Tamir Rice Report. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired June 15, 2015 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[12:00:24] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. Welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

It is day number 10 of a massive search for escaped inmates Richard Matt and David Sweat, two convicted murders. And this morning, Joyce Mitchell, the prison tailor, accused of helping them break free, appeared in court in her own prison outfit, a white and black ensemble you see on your screen. It was complete with a vest, her wrists and her ankles were shackled and she was standing with her new attorney, her court-appointed attorney. Her previous attorney had a conflict with another case. The only matter of business today, she waived her preliminary felony hearing. That felony charge being promoting prison contraband. And it has a hefty sentence.

As far as the search goes, though, because it's still on, more than 800 law enforcement officers from state, local, and federal agencies are trying to find Mr. Matt and Mr. Sweat and they are working around the clock to do so. More than 900 leads have now developed at this point and according to the Clinton County district attorney, the search has a hefty price tag. It amounts to about a million dollars every single day.

Sara Ganim joins me now live from West Plattsburgh, New York.

So what's the latest on this -- on this appearance by Ms. Mitchell and where she goes from here in this case?

SARA GANIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon, Ashleigh.

Yes, there wasn't much to this hearing today. Basically she walked in, her attorney, new attorney of record since the old one had to recuse himself, step aside, he waived her right to a preliminary hearing and that was about it. She didn't say anything. Her attorney said very little.

What's next is the district attorney said he's going to a grand jury. He's going to seek an indictment, but he's not sure that that will happen -- he said definitely not today, maybe in the next few weeks. But he was very clear about her involvement and I want you to take a listen to what he said after that hearing to Carol Costello.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDREW WYLIE, CLINTON COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: She has told us that she's provided hacksaw blades, provided other contraband to both Matt and Sweat and she was aware of the time frame of the escape. She had been provided information on the period of time that they had been working on cutting the backs of the cell walls out, going down into the tunnel system of the facility and working there escape plan. So I think she was relatively involved.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GANIM: Now, Joyce Mitchell, in court today, did not even make a single facial expression, Ashleigh. She literally just stared right at the judge and then what -- at what was in front of her. But the district attorney told me over the weekend that she was very chatty before her arrests and cooperating with police. She told them a lot of different interesting things about what the plan was for these two escapees. She talked about how they were going into the walls of the prison in the middle of the night practicing and rehearsing for this. The district attorney also confirmed to us that they may have had access to other tools that were left behind by contractors working on the prison, so he's left open the possibility that there will be more charges coming or more people involved.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: That's fascinating. Other tools that may have been found along the way because up until now we've been wondering if she didn't give them the power tools, someone did, and are there more people they need to find in that vein?

Sara Ganim, thank you for that.

And as this manhunt goes on and on, New York's governor, Andrew Cuomo, made a big announcement today. He says he's directing his inspector general to conduct a thorough investigation into this escape. He also wants to hire an outside expert to recommend prison reforms. And he had some strong words, too, for any of those possible accomplices. And I'll quote the governor here. "We have zero tolerance for anyone who aided or abetted these criminals no matter how minor their role. Make no mistake, any individual found to have assisted in this escape will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law."

Well, how full does that get? For the legal view, I want to bring if HLN legal analyst and defense attorney Joey Jackson and criminal defense attorney Midwin Charles.

Joey, have at her. How extensive can that prosecution get for someone who may have had a minor role?

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: It could get very extensive. Let's be clear about it. What you want to do is you want to deter anyone in the future. There's a couple things at stake here. The first, obviously, is to bring these two back to justice so that they don't engage in any crimes. They're not nice guys. We know that one shot a sheriff's deputy. We know that the other dismembered, you know, their boss --

[12:05:00] BANFIELD: A former boss. JACKSON: The former boss, who was elderly. And so what you want to do is you want to send a message out there that anyone who even considers assisting people behind bars to get out, you're going to be held accountable. And the law makes you accountable. Why? It's a D felony, punishable by up to seven years in jail and it says if you introduce contraband into a facility -- which is anything that is not allowed in a facility, but particularly here where it's dangerous contraband that could help people escape, then you know what, you really have to suffer the consequences. And I think she will.

BANFIELD: All right. So, Midwin, she is apparently admitting, according to court records anyway --

MIDWIN CHARLES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right.

BANFIELD: To have provided hacksaw blades, chisels, a punch, a screwdriver bit. But she is denying that she supplied those power tools and we know they had power tools. Now the D.A. releasing today that potentially they may have found them on some of their rehearsal runs through the tunnels and through the back walls.

CHARLES: Right.

BANFIELD: So I guess my question is, given that she may have only give an few tools that led to big tools, can you upgrade those charges from promoting prison contraband, which is the seven year potential felony, and the criminal facilitation, which is the one year misdemeanor?

CHARLES: Well, it's possible, because one of the things that Joey pointed out is this is a class D felony, meaning she's looking at seven years in jail, as well as a $5,000 fine. So let's not forget that part.

But the way the law is written, it says "dangerous contraband." And dangerous contraband is often defined as what would cause bodily injury or death. So if she provided these sort of contraband that are dangerous by all -- you know, for all intents and purposes, whether it's a hacksaw blade or anything to that effect, she is looking at those charges. And I absolutely see an upgrade on this because they have to send a message.

BANFIELD: You do for sure (ph)?

CHARLES: I do. Well, they have to send a message that this is not something that they're going to tolerate. And I think Governor Cuomo's statements today are very, very clear on that point. And who's to say who else they are going to find with their investigation? It's my understanding that they are still speaking to other people and other people may be charged as well.

BANFIELD: All right. So I'm going to have to leave it there. Joey, I did see you nodding when Midwin said that about upgrading the charges. Just quickly

JACKSON: Only -- well, the only issue would be, because of her cooperation -- BANFIELD: Right.

JACKSON: They need her cooperation. It's valued. And so they're handling it very gingerly at this point. So who knows whether they upgrade or they keep those charges. But a lot will depend upon what those inmates do. Hopefully they're found soon. If they engage in any other criminality, she's got problems.

CHARLES: Yes, it's a -- it's -- it's a game changer.

JACKSON: Yes.

BANFIELD: I believe they call that negotiation.

JACKSON: Yes, they do.

CHARLES: It's a game changer.

BANFIELD: Negotiation. All right, Midwin and Joey, stay put, if you will.

JACKSON: Yes.

BANFIELD: I have more for you in just a few moment.

In the meantime, I've got some big breaking news to tell you about coming out of Washington state. We've been following that very strange story where the NAACP leader, who was actually outed as white by her parents, she has just announced some breaking news, she is stepping down. So hear what else she has to say right after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:11:14] BANFIELD: We've got some brand new developments I want to bring you in the case of the white woman who, for years, has portrayed herself as a black woman. Her name is Rachel Dolezal. She's the president of the Spokane, Washington, NAACP chapter -- at least until very, very recently. Meaning, this is breaking news. She has decided to step down.

I want to bring in our correspondent Stephanie Elam, who's live on the phone with us right now.

So how did this news become available to us? Has she released this? Has she got more to say about this issue?

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Well, yes. She's making it clear -- and most everything that they've been saying is -- since I've been here in Spokane, they've been pretty quiet. Dolezal has not been talking to people publicly. All statements have been coming through their FaceBook page. And this is another case of that below where basically she's making the case that this has become a bigger issue around the world about her identity and how she identifies herself and less about the things that need to be focused on here. So she's saying she is removing herself from that conversation because of this unexpected firestorm, as she put it. But there were people here over the week who were supportive of her.

And then you also saw over the weekend that things began to change when there was a scheduled meeting for tonight and it was canceled over the weekend. Then it became clear that one of the members of the local chapter here was not OK with that and sent her a letter saying that we can't just arbitrarily cancel a meeting. So that clear -- it was clear that there were things that were changing here and not -- everyone was not on the same page.

BANFIELD: All right, I'm actually just looking at this statement that you were just referring to. I've just had it handed to me and I just want to read a little bit of it, if I can. It says, "dear executive committee and NAACP members, this is a statement from Rachel Dolezal. It is a true honor to serve in the racial and social justice movement here in Spokane and across the nation. Many issues face us now that drive at the theme of urgency -- police brutality, biased curriculum in schools, economic disenfranchisement, health inequities and a lack of pro-justice political representation."

She goes on to say, "and yet the dialogue has unexpectedly shifted internationally to my personal identity in the context of defining race and ethnicity. I have waited in deference while others expressed their feelings, believes, confusions and even conclusions absent the full story."

Stephanie, this quote continues, and I'll continue in a moment, but I want to stop right at "absent the full story." Is she giving the full story? Is she answering the big question? We've seen the quote where a reporter -- we've seen the clip where a reporter asks her point blank, "are you African-American?" And she says, "I don't understand the question" and walks away. What is the full story?

ELAM: That is the billion-dollar question at this point because these questions have not been directly answered, right? Even in this statement, it's still not clear where she stands on this to explain what's going on with the family. And there's no doubt about it, there's interesting family dynamics happening here among all of the Dolezals. But still, even in this letter, she does not address that. And at the end of it, she makes it also very clear that she's going to continue fighting for human rights and she says that it's about moving the cause of human rights and the black liberation movement along the continuum from resistance to child slavery to abolition of -- or to defiance of Jim Crow to the building of black wall street, to the civil rights and black power movement to black lives matter. So she's still talking about the issues that have been at the forefront of what her career has been built on. That seems to not be changing. But the actual questions about her racial identity -- and it's a question that, quite frankly, has -- it has sparked so many interesting conversations, not just here in Spokane, because I've heard people -- I've been here all weekend. I've listened to people just walking around. They're talking about it here. But they're talking about it around the world because a lot of people who feel like you can't just walk in and decide to adopt what it means to be black, instead of living that life story. And that is why this conversation continues to come up and that's why people care. [12:15:25] BANFIELD: So let me -- let me read a few more excerpts.

And, like I said, I'm getting this at the same time and trying to sort of go through it quickly. But these stanzas stood out. "It is with complete allegiance to the cause of racial and social justice and the NAACP that I step aside from the presidency and pass the baton to my vice president." She goes on to say, "please know that I will never stop fighting for human rights and will do everything in my power to help and assist, whether it means stepping up or stepping down because this is not about me, it's about justice. This is not me quitting, this is a continuum," as Stephanie just reported.

I want to bring in Joey and Midwin again on this. You know, this is something I think a lot of people are so perplexed about. They just don't understand why it was she would adopt this identity in order to do this very good work.

JACKSON: Right.

BANFIELD: Because there are elements of this woman that are spectacular.

JACKSON: Absolutely.

BANFIELD: And then when you see lying, you just can't say that's spectacular.

CHARLES: Right. Anyway, and --

BANFIELD: How does this -- how does this land with you?

JACKSON: Well, it's just a problem because it impairs your credibility. And we all can be passionate about any cause of our own choosing and -- no matter what that is and we can all identify with whatever group that we choose to or several groups. The issue becomes when you pass that on falsely because then if you're deemed to be lying about that, what else about you could be deemed to be a lie, and that becomes problematic.

The other issue, too, is if you fill out applications or anything else where you make misrepresentations or you get anything of benefit based upon those misrepresentations, what does it then do to you? That's the only concern.

BANFIELD: So these -- these are the technical. These are the technical things.

JACKSON: Right.

BANFIELD: This is the credibility issues. This is the filling out. This is a representation. And then what about just the social implication? I mean you're an African-American woman and she's been pretending to be like you. Is there some kind of an offense or is it admiration? I mean some people could look at it as though she has immense admiration and wants more to be like that.

CHARLES: Well, it's complex and it's multilayered, you now? But one of the most interesting things I find about this is, she had risen to the ranks of being a leader of the NAACP for Spokane, Washington, which is not an easy thing to do, right? You have to have amazing credibility and have done incredible civil rights work.

The biggest concern for me, and I think for a lot of people, is that you have someone leading an organization such as the NAACP, which is storied with its history and its credibility of helping African- Americans and other groups in America for a long time who is a pathological liar. I mean, just let that sink in for a minute.

BANFIELD: Yes.

CHARLES: She's a pathological liar and she's gone through such great lengths to sort of perpetuate this lie.

BANFIELD: Beyond that, though.

CHARLES: And why?

BANFIELD: Is it offensive? I mean that's not a question for me. I can't answer it because I'm white. I don't know if it's offensive if someone were pretending to be white. And I want to know if it's offensive if a white woman is pretending to be a black woman.

CHARLES: You're asking me personally?

BANFIELD: I am, yes.

CHARLES: I don't -- I don't offend easily. I really don't.

BANFIELD: This is true. I've tried.

CHARLES: I don't -- I don't. I don't offend easily.

BANFIELD: No.

CHARLES: I think that someone going through a racial identity crisis really doesn't necessarily offend me. What bothers me, right, which is different from being offended --

BANFIELD: Yes.

CHARLES: Is that has she taken opportunities away from African- American women --

BANFIELD: Yes.

CHARLES: By pretending to be black?

JACKSON: Of course she's going to --

CHARLES: And that bothers me.

JACKSON: Of course she's going to argue that potentially she gave opportunities based upon the fine work that she did --

BANFIELD: Right.

JACKSON: On behalf of that cause. And so, again, support who you want, be who you want, just don't misrepresent who you are.

BANFIELD: So there you have it. Again, the breaking news that, you know, this -- this has been the story sort of for the last several days --

JACKSON: Yes.

BANFIELD: Of this woman who has been at the helm of the NAACP in Washington and she is effectively stepping down. I assume it's effective immediately. But that is the letter that she's give to the executive committee and the NAACP members. Not to the greater public. This is a letter just to them. She's done. And not done the work, but done the leadership role.

It's been an amazing story. We'll continue to watch to see what kind of fallout, if there is any, this will have.

But up next, another story that's really captured the nation's attention, the disturbing details finally now coming to light in the shooting of that 12-year-old Cleveland boy by the police. Now the investigative report is out and it's going to go, you guessed it, to a grand jury. Wait till you hear the details and wait till you hear opinions that may have changed.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:23:14] BANFIELD: A new report revealing new information about the police shooting of 12-year-old boy who was holding a pellet gun is now public. Among the most compelling details, that Tamir Rice was alert and speaking after he was shot. And that he reached for an officer's hand in his final moments.

Joining me now is CNN's Martin Savidge, live in the front -- right out front of the county courthouse in Cleveland.

So, Martin, there is so much new national that has been made public, but there is significant information that may sway people to feel differently about what they once thought absent the information. Can you run me through the highlights?

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And the reason for that is, it sort of adds, as somebody put it, a human mosaic to what we already had, which was that horrific video and then statements by other police through attorneys or family. Here you hear it from people who were actually there. And, remember, Ashleigh, this is the investigative report that is likely that the prosecutor will take to the grand jury.

But let's go through some of the major findings. First of all they said it is not clear if police gave any verbal command to Rice. Remember, the police officers maintain they shouted at least three times, "show us your hands, show us your hands." And, in fact, investigators who talked to witnesses say the witnesses said they heard no command coming from police prior to shots being fired. Then there's the 911 call. That's the thing that started it all. The

detail there, we learned it was made by a person drinking a beer in the park waiting on a bus who left before the police arrived. And the dispatcher was told, it might be a juvenile and the gun he has could be fake, none of which was passed along to the officers that were responding. And the investigators went to that dispatcher, who's a 19- year veteran and said, why not? That woman refused to answer that question, guided by the attorney who was sitting right next to her. It is her Fifth Amendment right.

[12:25:12] And then also the other issues that come up here. The first responders, all of them thought that Rice was actually much older than he was, 16 to 20 maybe, at 195 pounds. And also that Rice had reached, as you point out, for an FBI agent's hand. He's the first person to start rendering first aid. A very powerful human insight into a terrible tragedy.

BANFIELD: Oh, yes. I mean, Martin, that is just so difficult because you can just envision now what was happening on the site as that child, a 12-year-old child, look, he may have been 5'7" and 195, he may have looked like an older teenager, but he was 12 and he was dying and it's heartbreaking. There's a lot of good information. I encourage people to read up on this online.

SAVIDGE: Absolutely, yes.

BANFIELD: It may or may not change your opinion. Martin Savage, thank you for that. He's been doing the work for us. He's read through that report.

SAVIDGE: You're welcome.

BANFIELD: We'll continue to follow this as well.

And coming up next, we're going to head back to upstate New York to join the search for those two escaped killers. How can two men hide from search dogs and 800 police officers, buses, vans, trucks, cars, helicopters. It's an all-out assault to find these men and yet the days tick on.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:30:02] BANFIELD: We are learning more about a double shark attack off the North Carolina coast. Witnesses describing it as a nightmarish scene.