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Trump to Make Announcement in NYC Today; Inside the Minds of Voters; Former NAACP Leader Speaks Up; Did Inmates Find Perfect Storm of Failures? Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired June 16, 2015 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:29:45] SALLY KOHN, "DAILY BEAST": I mean, I feel positively giddy. Look, I was already excited enough that Rick Perry was getting into the race. I mean that, you know, there's always more room in the clown car for more clowns, but you know, Donald Trump turns this from a circus into a full-fledged reality show. We should put them all in a house with live cameras all night, see what happens.

It's just -- look, I love the part where you said I have a good, good chance of winning in the tape you rolled. No, he does not. And the chance of his winning is literally more improbable than his hair, which I already thought was factually impossible.

It is actually a worse idea if that's imaginable. Look, what I do like is he does reveal the real irrationality and fear-mongering that lives within not only a part of the Republican Party but a part of America that I think we need to talk about. So the fact that he was the guy long after the fact who was still hounding about whether Barack Obama was really an American citizen, all of that, come on, he's going to do that stuff again. Is Hillary Clinton really a woman?

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: (INAUDIBLE) irrationality because at some point Tara, doesn't it hurt the Republican Party but there are really good, strong candidates that want to run for the President of the United States, and they really should get most of the attention.

TARA SETMAYER, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, I think if you're going to say that Donald Trump hurts the Republican Party, then you need to also say that Lincoln Chafee or Bernie Sanders, they're not serious candidates either of the Democratic side.

COSTELLO: I don't know. Bernie Sanders is really --

SETMAYER: He's a socialist -- he's a self-professed socialist and Lincoln Chafee was worrying about the metric system. So, you know, there's on both side.

COSTELLO: She has a point about Lincoln Chafee.

KOHN: Questioning the President's citizenship and where he was born is equivalent to suggesting we should adopt the metric system. I think --

(CROSSTALK) SETMAYER: I'm not excusing that Donald Trump hasn't said some things that are very concerning and that will be controversial which is why most serious people in the political world are not taking his candidacy seriously.

Like I said, there -- unfortunately in this day and age of social media, of television, 24-hour news cycles, the cult of personality, Trump's experience and seriousness -- and pun intended --

KOHN: That's true.

SETMAYER: -- and that's what you're dealing with here with Donald Trump.

COSTELLO: Ok. So question, should the media cover Donald Trump?

SETMAYER: I mean you're going to have to. He is a declared candidate. He is a celebrity. He is -- he's worth $9 billion allegedly now.

COSTELLO: So he says.

SETMAYER: So he says and just doubled what Forbes thinks he's worth but that's typical Donald Trump extravagance. But I think you're going to have to because of he's going to say things and do things that are going to be controversial and provocative. And in fact, you're going to have do it.

Now, if he starts going into the crazy town stuff again, well, you know, then I think it hurts him more than the Republican Party per se.

KOHN: I think it hurts everyone. But look, of course you're going to cover it and I'm going to be really happy right there to watch it. I hope it's being covered personally for my own enjoyment if no one else's.

But also, you know, Tara is right. Whoever sort of says the weirdest, craziest, most incendiary, nutty thing gets the media's attention is a problematic dynamic. At the same time it's working because he does speak to a part of the party that wants him there. He, Ted Cruz, these apples aren't falling far from the tree of a part of the Republican base that is very real, has a voice, needs to be taken seriously even if they're not serious.

SETMAYER: There are a lot of Independents, too. There's a lot of Independents who think Donald Trump is refreshing because he's a hard hitter, he talks straight talk and --

COSTELLO: I know. If you look at the latest polls, people aren't really --

SETMAYER: Well, yes. We're far out but --

COSTELLO: Tara Setmayer, Sally Kohn -- thanks to both of you. Appreciate it. New Hampshire is first in the nation primary, a critical test for

candidates on the Republican and Democratic side. My colleague Chris Cuomo is sitting down with voters in the state to get their views on the field so far and the issues most important to them.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So the first question is we're like 5,090 days out from the election and even though the media is collecting it aloud right now and really focusing on it, it does seem that people care.

Ted why do you think people care about this election this far out?

TED GORSKI, INDEPENDENT: Well, I think because this is the most important one, vital, because there's some major issues that really have to be discussed. I mean we have, you know, ISIS is running around like crazy and that's a big issue.

It's about the economy, and it's about immigration. And I think there's some big issues out there, and you know, from the candidates that have been going around so far, I think New Hampshire is really taking it seriously. They're asking the tough questions and they want to hear it from these candidates, you know, what's important.

MATT WILHELM, DEMOCRAT: It's a real privilege to be in this state where we get this front row seat to democracy really, where we get to shake hands with candidates once, twice, three, four times. Really as much as we want --

CUOMO: How important is the shake itself, by the way?

Not so much for you, Ted because you're a giant. When you grab someone's hand --

GORSKI: It's about giants -- come on.

CUOMO: I'm telling like you should have a signature on you you're such a piece of art. But what I'm saying is when you shake that hand, does the actual grip -- man, woman, whatever, does that matter?

GORSKI: The important part, Chris, is I want to hear what you're going to do for this country. I want to hear plans.

CUOMO: And here is my plan. I'm not going to be President Obama. He's terrible, he's hurt us.

GORSKI: I want to hear -- no, I don't want to hear that. I want to hear -- tell me, you know, here are three or four steps I'm going to do to improve the economy.

CUOMO: Here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to make the economy better.

GORSKI: And here is how. CUOMO: I'm going to get away from taxes, taxes are bad. I want no

taxes. I'm going to try to get rid of them everywhere I can and I'm going to make jobs here. That's what you're hearing, right?

[10:35:07] GORSKI: Right. I want to hear -- we want to hear more.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, you need to elaborate on that.

CUOMO: The game is why do I want to give you bullet points which you can think about and assess and evaluate against somebody else when I can do something that seems with all due respect to work better even with a cross section of voters like what I have at this table. Which is to run the other people down. Why are ads negative most of the time? Because they work. Am I right?

GORSKI: I think that really squares on us and the consultants will keep on doing it until us the consumers go, you know what, we're a little smarter than this. We know what you're doing and we're not going to buy it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: I'm liking Ted Gorski.

Chris Cuomo joins me now.

Donald Trump is going to visit New Hampshire soon. Do you think that the people that you talked with will be receptive?

CUOMO: I think they will be receptive because it's New Hampshire. And I think there's a culture up there in politics where, Carol, they just want to see everybody. They love the vetting. They love the focus on them. And I think that they're probably aboveboard on the political intelligence scale across it.

How he'll do? I think that he's kind of symbolic of what the problem is in as much as the window dressing, the hype, the antics, as Sally was just saying, what gets the most attention of the media, not necessarily what's best for the voters.

COSTELLO: You heard Mr. Gorski say, you know, I want to hear about issues. But I'm not sure all voters feel that way.

CUOMO: They may feel that way but it then, what they get saturated with and they become somewhat of a victim of their environment. I mean even from them you're hearing phrases that are floating through the media about people all the time, you know. And I think that it's a little bit of just a reminder that it's really supposed to be about them.

And it's easier for us to get caught up in everything else in the media and the politicians don't help us. You know, they're trying to avoid these types of issues. But hopefully, if there are more people like what we saw in New Hampshire and they hold people's feet to the fire where they don't care about how you feel about each other, they care about how you feel about them -- COSTELLO: Wouldn't that be nice?

CUOMO: It would be nice.

COSTELLO: That would be beautiful. Any early favorites that you can discern?

Cuomo: No. They were very intent on saying we don't know enough about them yet, and not the people. What are you going to do for me? It was interesting, complete opposite of the media cycle. The media cycle is the individuals and how they're sizing up against each other with their own foibles.

These people across the board were I really don't care, I don't care about your e-mail, I don't care about what you think, what's is a choice, what isn't a choice. What are you going to do for me? How are you going to help me with my kids and my family and how are you going to represent what I think is important for leadership?

COSTELLO: Awesome. Thanks for stopping by. I appreciate it.

CUOMO: Always a pleasure.

COSTELLO: Thank you so much. I appreciate that, Chris.

Still to come in the newsroom, Rachel Dolezal finally speaks. The former NAACP leader answering the question everyone has been asking.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: After resigning Spokane's former NAACP leader Rachel Dolezal is breaking her silence confronting allegations that she's been pretending to be African-American. This morning telling NBC's Matt Lauer, "I identify as black".

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RACHEL DOLEZAL, FORMER NAACP LEADER, WASHINGTON: My life has been one of survival, and the decisions that I have made along the way, including my identification, have been to survive.

MATT LAUER, NBC HOST: Is this an African-American woman or is that a Caucasian woman?

DOLEZAL: That's not in my early 20s but --

LAUER: That's a little younger, I guess, yes.

DOLEZAL: Yes, 16 in that picture.

LAUER: Is she a Caucasian woman or an African-American woman?

DOLEZAL: I would say that visibly she would be identified as white by people who see her.

LAUER: But at the time were you identifying yourself as African- American?

DOLEZAL: In that picture during that time, no. I was actually identified when I was doing human rights work in north Idaho as first transracial and then when some of the opposition to some of the human rights work I was doing came forward and started, the next newspaper article identified me as being a biracial woman. And then the next article when there were actually burglaries, nooses, et cetera, this was happening to a black woman and I never corrected that.

LAUER: Why didn't you correct it? You knew it wasn't true.

DOLEZAL: Well, because it's more complex than, you know, being true or false in that particular instance. I actually was talking to one of my sons yesterday, and he said, mom, racially you're human and culturally you're black and, you know, so we've had these conversations over the years. I do know that they support the way that I identify, and they support me. Ultimately we have each other's back. We're the three musketeers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Notably missing from Dolezal's interview was an apology and that missing apology might upset protesters who were calling for one last night in Spokane. Keep it here on CNN. Rachel's parents will be on "@THIS HOUR". That's coming your way in just about 15 minutes.

Checking some other top stories for you at 44 minutes past, long time Clinton family friend Sidney Blumenthal faces House GOP Benghazi investigators. This hour, they're expected to grill Blumenthal about memos on Libya that he drafted while Hillary Clinton was secretary of state. Blumenthal has turned over those documents to the committee but the "New York Times" reports they include papers that were not provided by Miss Clinton or the State Department.

North Korea has tested what it describes as highly intelligent new anti-ship rockets. State newspaper features photos of a smiling Kim Jong Un watching the night-time drill. It's not clear where or exactly when these drills were done.

[10:45:07] Still to come in the NEWSROOM, it takes more than a strong will to bust out of a maximum security prison. How many security checks really had to go wrong for Richard Matt and David Sweat to escape? We'll talk about that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: I'm sure you have heard people say this a million times. It's like something out of a movie. Maximum security prison inmates hatch an escape plan cutting through cell walls, burrowing through the bowels of the building to freedom. But it takes a perfect storm for facts to so closely resemble fiction. Reports say the Clinton correctional facility missed layers of security safeguards allowing Richard Matt and David Sweat's plan to actually work.

Alleged co-conspirator Joyce Mitchell reportedly bypassed routine prison screening. She was cleared to keep working at the prison after an inappropriate relationship with Sweat and possibly a sexual relationship with Matt. Regular cell checks and bed checks botched, the prisoners freely accessing contractor tools, and two watch towers reportedly empty when the men escaped.

With me now to talk about all this is Norman Seabrook. He's the president of the New York City Correction Officers' Benevolent Association, the largest municipal jail union in the United States. Welcome -- sir. Thank you so much for being here.

NORMAN SEABROOK, NEW YORK CITY CORRECTION OFFICERS' BENEVOLENT ASSOCIATION: Thank you so much for having me.

COSTELLO: Tell me about these watch towers. Were they empty the night those two killers disappeared?

SEABROOK: Well, the way that the city and the state of New York are cutting posts and cutting back on man power throughout the entire city of New York, whether it be in the jail system, the prison system, or the police department, these things are going to happen. So when you take shortcuts, these are the things that continue to happen.

COSTELLO: So you're saying there wasn't enough personnel in the prison to conduct enough bed checks or to be in the watch towers at all hours of the day and night?

SEABROOK: Absolutely because had they had enough staffing and staffing levels would have been where they were supposed to be, this probably would have been caught because it certainly didn't take them an hour or two hours. It took them probably months to cut through these walls, cut through these pipes.

Where were all the security checks? Where were all the inspections that were taking place? Where were all of the managers that were supposed to be supervising to ensure that these things were being done properly?

COSTELLO: Because when you think of the size of -- one of the men is 210 pounds. They're big men. It's not like they're small. It would take them a while to cut that large of a hole.

SEABROOK: It not only would take them a while to do that but what it also involved here is that they had to test this. They just didn't cut through a wall and say, ok, we're going to freedom. They had to test this several times until they got it right.

So at the end of the day you have to think about how much time was allowed for them to do this, and then when they did it, we don't even know when they left. We assume they left on a certain date when they were not visible for a count check or something like that. But at the end of the day no one knows when exactly they really left the facility.

COSTELLO: And as you probably know by now, the trail has gone cold. Nobody knows where these men are. The bloodhounds haven't picked up a new scent, nobody has seen anything concrete. And initially you had Governor Cuomo right, go into the prison and he gave us all a tour of the escape route. In retrospect do you think the governor should have done that?

SEABROOK: I don't think the governor should have done that, and whoever advised him to do that, I think that he needs to call them into his office and say look where I'm at right now because at the end of the day, this is not a show of what went wrong here. This is a show of how are we going to get them back and do what we're supposed to do.

A press conference in his office would have been adequate to say, look, this is unacceptable. I have ordered several reports from several people. I have ordered an investigation division to take a look at it.

COSTELLO: So you're saying the governor doing that little tour, it wasted valuable investigation time because authorities couldn't go out and look in full force.

SEABROOK: Well, correctional officers are prone and they're active and they're ready to go and bring back the bad guys. That's what we do. At the end of the day if the commissioner or an individual is standing there giving a press conference as opposed to going out and getting the job done, that's very valuable time. And when these inmates are caught they will tell exactly how they got out, exactly who was involved, and how long they had before and after to do this job.

COSTELLO: I want to get this one question and I want to word it right. Governor Cuomo has called for the state inspector general to investigate prison shortfalls, right. Should the state's attorney in turn call for a special grand jury to look into how the governor's office handled management of the prison?

SEABROOK: I don't think so because at the end of the day we as union leaders, we continuously disagree and agree with governor's staff or the mayor's staff as far as budget cuts are concerned but what they must do is they must protect the public from individuals like this. And when you are a penny smart and a pound foolish, these things will happen. And they will continue to happen unless they give them the staffing levels that they need to conduct proper security inspections, every tour, every day and give them the man power and not allow non- uniformed members of the department, civilians to walk around unescorted with all kinds of equipment, all kinds of tools, and no accountability for it because these things will continue to happen.

COSTELLO: Norman Seabrook thank you so much for being with me. I appreciate it.

SEABROOK: Thank you. Thank you so much.

COSTELLO: And we could be just minutes away from seeing the kickoff of Trump 2016. The Donald set to make a major announcement from Trump Tower in Manhattan next hour. You're looking at the room there decked out in American flags. So will Trump jump in or not? We'll have to wait and see.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COSTELLO: Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm Carol Costello.

"AT THIS HOUR" with Berman and Bolduan starts now.