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Search Area for the Fugitives Expands; Donald Trump Would Bomb ISIS?; Jeb Bush Slow Jams the News; Putin: Adding 40 Ballistic Missiles This Year; Interview with Republican Congressman Mac Thornberry of Texas. Aired 9-9:30a ET
Aired June 17, 2015 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:00:01] CUOMO: Raised so much money the hospital officials were afraid it violated rules against paying for organs. So the money is going to be donated. The surgery took place. All right?
PEREIRA: Beautiful.
CUOMO: It's just a good reminder to be an organ donor and save a life like Josh did. A corrections officer.
PEREIRA: A great note to end on.
All right, let's go over to Carol Costello with "NEWSROOM."
Good morning to you.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Have a great day.
NEWSROOM starts now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO: Happening now on the NEWSROOM, more than 1,000 tips but still no sign of these two killers. This morning the strategy shifts.
JOHN CUFF, FORMER HEAD, NORTHEAST FUGITIVE INVESTIGATION DIVISION: These are criminals, OK? They're going to rely on what they know best.
COSTELLO: And did the prison tailor's husband know about the plot to murder him?
STEPHEN JOHNSTON, JOYCE MITCHELL'S ATTORNEY: All I know is that he said that he's standing by her.
COSTELLO: Also --
JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't get economic policy from my bishops or my cardinals or my Pope.
COSTELLO: He doesn't want climate advice from the Pope either. Jeb Bush draws a line between politics and religion.
BUSH: And having spirited debates with my fellow Republicans.
COSTELLO: Before slow jamming the news.
JIMMY FALLON, HOST, "THE TONIGHT SHOW": You don't want to mess with little Jebby. Because when it comes to debating, he's a master.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's a master debater.
COSTELLO: Plus, the warriors win big.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The injuries, the underdog stories, makes this moment so much more special.
COSTELLO: How they took their first title in 40 years.
Let's talk. Live in the CNN NEWSROOM.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.
We begin this hour with the New York prison break. The leads come in, the search spreads out and the questions deepen over who knew what and when. A source telling CNN that accused accomplice Joyce Mitchell revealed the escape plan to her husband and warned him of the inmates' plan to kill him. An attorney for Lyle Mitchell says his client didn't know anything.
And as the search enters its 12th day hundreds of law enforcement officers fan out. State police say new information has forced the search area to shift. In just a few hours the prosecutor is due to hold a news conference. CNN will carry that live for you. For now let's check in with Alexandra Field, she's outside the prison with the latest.
ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Carol, 12 days after those two convicted killers broke out of this maximum security prison, the search area is now changing. Investigators have covered 16 square miles nearby. But now police say they're going to have follow these coming from every direction. They've removed the roadblocks that were in the area outside of this prison.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FIELD (voice-over): After more than a thousand leads, authorities are expanding and shifting their search around upstate New York.
CUFF: These are criminals, OK. They're going to rely on what they know best. So there's been no reports of any carjackings, any break- ins. That's not to say that they might not be holding someone at bay in a house somewhere.
FIELD: Investigators say former prison employee, Joyce Mitchell, gave the inmates, Richard Matt and David Sweat, tools to escape. Her attorney describes her current state of mind. JOHNSTON: She's distraught. She's very upset. She's were weepy.
FIELD: Mitchell's husband Lyle worked in the same tailoring block inside the prison as his wife.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Mr. Mitchell.
FIELD: Tuesday he spent an hour visiting Mitchell in jail and had a private, unmonitored conversation. Officials say she appeared to be comforted by the visit and he appeared supportive.
JOHNSTON: All I know is that he says that he's standing by her. So that's what he told me when I spoke to him.
FIELD: But Lyle's lawyer says he has no plans to testify on her behalf.
While both worked at the tailor shop, Mitchell had a sexual relationship with 49-year-old Richard Matt dating as far back as 2013. A source with direct knowledge of the investigation also tells CNN Joyce Mitchell was aware of a plot to kill her husband by the prisoners. And she warned him that his life could be in danger.
Leading up to the elaborate escape, investigators say Mitchell may have agreed to be the duo's getaway driver after Matt and/or Sweat then threatened both her and her husband.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FIELD: Investigators have not ruled out the possibility that other employees at the prison may have known something about the plan. They are continuing to look at that question. At the same time they're also saying it's possible that inmates could have caused some sort of distraction to help the two men who were able to break out -- Carol.
COSTELLO: All right. Alexandra Field, reporting this morning.
I want to bring in someone with extensive experience in manhunts. Matthew Fogg is a retired chief deputy in the U.S. Marshals Service. He's also helped lead a task force that's captured more than 300 fugitives both in the United States and abroad.
Welcome, Mr. Fogg.
MATTHEW FOGG, CHIEF DEPUTY, U.S. MARSHALS SERVICE (RET.): Good to be on your show, Carol.
COSTELLO: Nice to have you here. So it's day 12 of this manhunt. And with the search area now expanding we appear no closer to arrest than on day one. How would you characterize the efforts so far?
[09:05:07] FOGG: Well, what I would say is what we have here is a failure to communicate. And what I'm looking at is when you look at all of the information that's coming out of here, whether the woman is saying one thing, her husband is saying another thing, exactly how everything went down, it's just amazing here. But we've got two fugitives that are still on the run. So no matter how much people are cooperating, the bottom line is they haven't caught these suspects yet.
So I think what we've got now is we're panning out. I remember searching after Bernard Welsh. He escaped and we were all up in that same area up there in New York -- upstate New York and Vermont. And our area continued to just pan out to the point where we ended up all the way over in Duluth, Minnesota, up in -- up at the northern area of the country looking for these guys -- looking for this particular person.
So in this situation they have no leads, nothing that leads them other than the leads that are coming in. And they're going to start getting leads from all over the country. People want to tell you, I saw him over here, I saw him there. So it's getting really to be a hectic job, trust me.
COSTELLO: Most definitely. I'd like to ask you this, too. This search combines both federal and local law enforcement. And we often hear that that sort of forced marriage can be tested by territorial self-interest and distrust. Has that been your experience?
FOGG: Well, yes, I mean, again, when you're talking about the situation with family members, people who these folks are close to, when they go on the state, we go on to every type of scenario you can possibly think of that's legal to try to get information out of these people. To get people to tell us one thing and then we hear something from someone else. So it is -- you're just getting all kinds of information from these people.
You've got the lawyers saying his client didn't have -- doesn't know anything about what she's saying. So you've got a situation where you really have to press these folks to try to figure out what they really do know. And you've got two suspects out there that are very dangerous. And right now they're right where they want to be, incognito and nobody knows where they are.
COSTELLO: You've got that right.
I want to walk you through a couple of scenario. So here's the first. The heavily wooded Adirondacks, six million acres, plenty of empty cabins. What are the concerns here?
FOGG: Well, again, it's a possibility they could be in one of those cabins -- it's a possibility they could have somebody held as a hostage. But I just don't see that. There's two things that I think could have happened. Either when they had a getaway scenario already set up because this was a well-orchestrated plan so I believe they had months, even well into a year to plan this thing. So they may have food, water, some particular place that they knew was most -- least likely to be discovered.
They're there. They've hunkered down and they're going to be there for at least 30 days or more. Or they just got out of the area. They had a getaway car, which I would think they would have had, and would have gotten out of the area and was not relying on that woman. Just simply gave her that information because they knew that she would tell the authorities later.
COSTELLO: Maybe so. OK. So here's the second scenario. These guys actually could be hiding in plain sight, right? Because Joyce Mitchell said that they were supposed to drive seven hours to somewhere. So that's a large somewhere. The fugitives could have reached big cities like Boston, Philadelphia, New York. How easy is it to disappear in a crowd?
FOGG: Well, again, if you've got disguises -- we've had prisoners that broke out, they had women's disguises. I mean, these guys could be looking like Caitlyn at this point. I have no idea. I mean, the bottom line is if they've got wigs, if they've had material that could disguise themselves when they got out, they had a particular location, say, a vehicle waiting on them, they would have shaved their heads, they would have done whatever, put wigs on.
Whatever they could have done to as you say just filter into the crowds and move about. But I don't think that's what they're doing. I think they're somewhere, wherever they are, they're somewhere laying very low and they're not going to do anything. They won't -- they won't make any false moves right now until this thing dies down.
COSTELLO: All right. Matthew Fogg, thank you for your insight. I appreciate it this morning.
All right. On to politics now. A tale of two presidential candidates. One heads east, the other to the Midwest. Sadly the biggest buzz surrounds Donald Trump. How to take Donald Trump? Well, consider the newspapers this morning. At least the tabloids. The "Daily News" considers Trump a clown. The "New York Post" considers Trump a rich guy who could make it to the White House?
We do know that Donald Trump has made the rounds. He was on "Good Morning America" touting his would-be foreign policy. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I will tell you that ISIS has taken what I said we should take -- the oil. And you knock out that oil. You just knock the hell out of the oil and you have to go in and take the oil. You kill them at the head. It's over. They took the oil from Iraq.
[09:10:09] GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC NEWS: So you'd bomb the oil fields?
TRUMP: I would bomb the hell out of them. I'd bomb the fields.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: As for Jeb Bush, he will turn up in Iowa today after turning on the charm and slow-jamming with Jimmy Fallon last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FALLON: While we're talking about the issues, where do you stand on immigration?
BUSH: Well, Jimmy, we're a nation of immigrants and I believe everyone should have the chance to achieve the American dream, and to translate that for all your Spanish speaking viewers (speaking in foreign language).
FALLON: Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold the telefono. I know you just got back from Miami, but I didn't think I was interviewing Governor Pitbull.
BUSH: Fire ball.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHTER)
COSTELLO: I'm just relieved Jeb Bush didn't dance along with Jimmy Fallon.
OK, CNN senior politics reporter Chris Moody is here and CNN politics reporter Sara Murray also here. They're following many aspects of the story.
Welcome to both of you. I like how Alisyn Camerota put it, Sara. She simply said, what's happening in our country?
SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, it certainly is an interesting moment in presidential politics. I think Jeb Bush seems to be having a pretty good time on "The Tonight Show" last night in addition to slow-jamming the news. He talks a little bit about his family, about his mom, about his brother, about his dad. But he also gave us some insight into maybe the most important person in his life, his wife Columba Bush. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: I married her when I was -- I met her when I was 17. I married her when I was 21. And --
FALLON: Where did you meet?
BUSH: I met her in Leon, Mexico. I fell in love at first sight. It was one of these deals. I don't know if that happened to you, Jimmy, but --
FALLON: Definitely did. Absolutely.
BUSH: Man, I just -- it was a knockout moment. It was like a lightning hit. I lost 20 pounds. I was -- I probably weighed about 190 then. So I was like this total -- I couldn't sleep, I couldn't eat.
FALLON: And did you know how to speak Spanish?
BUSH: I was pretty not so hot at Spanish and she wasn't so hot in English. But, you know, when you're in love you can overcome those barriers pretty quick. There's another language that matters the most.
FALLON: But do you speak English or Spanish when you're at home?
BUSH: Spanish most of the time and we -- all the time when she's mad at me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MURRAY: Now, Carol, some very sweet comments. But also Columba Bush is really the reason that Jeb Bush is able to give this air of being sort of a multi-cultural candidate. Now she's really important beyond just, you know, the very cute love story.
COSTELLO: It was very -- he was so charming on Jimmy Fallon, I must say. So, Chris, I'm not going to ask you to talk about that per se but I am going to ask you to talk about the Donald, Mr. Trump.
According to 538.com, Mr. Trump is the most hated candidate since 1980. He also told George Stephanopoulos about his dream running mate. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I like Oprah. What can I tell you.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Still on your short list?
TRUMP: She's great, she's talented, she's a friend of mine. She's a good person. I've been on her show. In fact, I was on her show last week. She said, could I be on your show with the whole family? I like Oprah. I mean, is that supposed to be a bad thing?
STEPHANOPOULOS: No. So when you think --
TRUMP: No, I like Oprah.
STEPHANOPOULOS: The kind of people you're going to run with.
TRUMP: Oprah would be great. I'd love to have Oprah. I think we'd win easily, actually.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: I must admit I find that kind of intriguing. Donald Trump and Oprah Winfrey on the same ticket? Really?
CHRIS MOODY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, Donald Trump is a guy who knows how to suck all the oxygen out of the room, at least temporarily. You mentioned polls and how he has strong unfavorability ratings. But I think the real poll to be watching with Donald Trump is the national ones to see how he's faring and how that will apply to the debates. Because Donald Trump has pretty strong national name ID all over the country. So a lot of people might say that hey, they could support him.
That could put him on the debate stage, allow him to make the cut which would knock off other candidates, possibly governors or senators. So it's going to be very interesting to see who Donald Trump knocks off that debate stage. Because the Catch 22 of the debates are, the debates allow an opportunity to get national attention and national name ID. But if you don't have national name ID you can't get on the debate stage. So I think it's going to be a real problem for the GOP in the coming months.
COSTELLO: Can't wait. Chris Moody, Sara Murray, thanks to both of you. I appreciate it.
You can catch Jake --
MOODY: Thank you.
COSTELLO: You're welcome. You can catch Jake Tapper's interview with the Donald this Sunday, 9:00 a.m. Eastern on "STATE OF THE UNION."
Still to come in the NEWSROOM, Russia says it's being provoked into an arms race. And now it's beefing up its nuclear stockpile.
[09:15:01] A live report from Russia just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: Military hardware that can overcome even the most advanced missile defense systems in the world. Those were the words of Vladimir Putin as he unveiled the country's 40 new intercontinental ballistic missiles. Russia's defense minister says the West is provoking an arms race.
But the head of NATO dismissed those claims while slamming Russia's actions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENS STOLTEBERG, NATO SECRETARY GENERAL: This nuclear saber rattling of Russia is unjustified. It's destabilizing and it's dangerous.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: All right. Joining me now to talk about this, Republican Congressman Mac Thornberry of Texas, the chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, which will hold a hearing on the U.S. strategy on ISIS and the Middle East in just an hour.
[09:20:06] Congressman, thanks for joining me. I appreciate it.
REP. MAC THORNBERRY (R-TX), CHAIRMAN, ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: You're welcome.
COSTELLO: Before we get into today's hearing, I'd like to ask you about Russia.
What do you make of Russia adding 40 new intercontinental ballistic missiles to its stockpile? THORNBERRY: Well, I think it's consistent with what Putin has done before. It's to try to escalate and intimidate us for standing with NATO allies. I think it's perfectly consistent.
The thing -- the only thing -- and Churchill said this back right after World War II, the thing that Russia respects the most is strength, particularly military strength. He has sensed weakness from the West. And he's going to keep pushing and making these gestures until he sees something different.
COSTELLO: Well, here, I like to ask you about this, too, because it's just so -- well, it's so bizarre. Russia also opened this new military themed amusement park, complete with grenade launchers for the kids to play on. A second park is being built-in Crimea by a pro- Putin biker gang.
What do you make of that?
THORNBERRY: Yes, I think bizarre is a good word to use for it. But I think it would be a mistake to dismiss all of this.
Putin has an approach which includes internal propaganda and also propaganda for the neighboring countries. So he is trying to rev up this nationalism, rev up this idea that they are defending the motherland. And that is so they will ignore the damage that he's doing to their country.
So, you know, in some ways it's clever. But I'm not sure how long it will last. But it does pose a danger to us.
COSTELLO: What should the United States do, if anything?
THORNBERRY: Well, I think number one is our military strength is of the utmost importance. So, we are trying to turn around the cuts in the defense budget. And I think that's the most important thing we can do do, shoring up our allies all along Russia's border is very important.
They are very nervous and they're wondering whether NATO and the United States will stand with them. So that reassurance so that we can stand together as an alliance against this sort of aggression, I think is one of the most useful things we can do.
COSTELLO: OK. On the subject of the hearing today, what's on the agenda?
THORNBERRY: Mideast strategy. So, we've got the secretary of defense, the chairman of the joint chiefs, to come and discuss with us the administration's military strategy for the Middle East. It's not just about ISIS, although that will obviously be a key topic. But it's about how all the pieces fit together with Iran and Syria, the chaos in Yemen, the threats to Israel.
All of these things are deteriorating. It's not up to the Pentagon to fix everything, but they're a key component. And so, we want to know how they're going to do that. COSTELLO: So, you wanted a clear strategy laid out?
THORNBERRY: Yes, no, that's exactly right. The president has said he didn't have a complete strategy for defeating ISIS. But that's only one part of what's happening in the Middle East. So, our question before the secretary and the chairman is give us the military strategy for dealing with this multitude of chaotic situations that are engulfing the Middle East and inevitably us.
COSTELLO: Congressman Thornberry, thank you so much. I appreciate you being with me this morning.
THORNBERRY: Thanks for having me.
COSTELLO: Thank you.
Still to come in the NEWSROOM, we are 24 hours away from Pope Francis revealing his encyclical, where we learn the pope's position on climate change and how it's affecting GOP candidates. We'll talk about that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:28:31] COSTELLO: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.
Pope Francis on climate change. Yes, science proves it's happening, and guess what? The pope says it's also a moral issue.
Tomorrow, Pope Francis will release his long-awaited and some say controversial encyclical or teaching document.
Now, the pope is on science's side on climate, it's irking some GOP presidential contenders like Jeb Bush. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I hope I'm not going to get castigated for saying this by my priest back home. But I don't get economic policy from my bishops or my cardinals or my pope. And I'd like to see what he says as it relates climate change and how that connects to these broader and deeper issues before I pass judgment. But I think religion ought to be about making us better as people and less about things that end up getting into the political realm. So, I'm a little --
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: Except that's not a great argument especially when Bush uses the church to reinforce his views on contraception, abortion and Obamacare.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BUSH: The most galling example is the shabby treatment of the Little Sisters of the Poor, a Christian charity that dared to voice objections of conscience of Obamacare. The next president needs to make it clear that great charities like the Little Sisters of the Poor need no federal instruction in doing the right thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: With me now is R.L. Miller, founder of Climate Hawks Vote, a super PAC working to elect climate conscious candidates.
Welcome. Thanks for being here this morning.
