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Search Area Covers More Than 10,000 Acres; Joyce Mitchell Moved to Different Jail; No Evidence Escaped Inmates Moved On; The Plan to Fight ISIS; Trump Heads to New Hampshire; War Against ISIS; Interviw with Rep. Martha McSally. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired June 17, 2015 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 here in Washington, 6:00 p.m. in London, 7:00 p.m. in Rome, 8:00 p.m. in Moscow. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BLITZER: Twelve days on the run, 16 square miles and more than 10,000 acres searched, 1,400 leads followed up. But still, two escaped murderers here in the United States have managed to elude authorities. At a news conference just a little while ago, police announced they are now expanding their search for these two convicted killers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAJ. CHARLES GUESS, NEW YORK STATE POLICE: Today, the search for escaped inmates, Richard Matt and David Sweat, will expand and shift to other areas surrounding Dannemora. Personnel are being redeployed to other areas based on information gathered during the investigation. People in the region should expect to see law enforcement in their community as the search expands.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Meanwhile, New York state police have now released artist renditions. This is what Richard Matt and David Sweat may look like after 12 days on the run. Take a close look.

CNN's Polo Sandoval is on the scene for us in Plattsburgh New York, that's in upstate New York. Polo, so, do police think these two killers have left the area where you are?

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, Wolf, that's a key question here. Just a few moments ago, we heard from investigators who said that, at this point, there is no evidence that seems to indicate that they did leave the region here. We're talking possibly a carjacking, a burglary of some sort, maybe some surveillance video. Investigators have not seen any kind of evidence like that that suggests that they're still here.

So, as a result, as you mentioned there, much of the focus of this investigation now shifts to the areas in and around the small town of Dannemora which is where that correctional facility is.

Now, we also know that investigators are now pretty much renewing their plea to the public here, Wolf, because, at this point, so much hope hangs on the eyes and ears that investigators have out there that are the people in these tiny towns. You mentioned those images that were put out today by authorities here. These images seem to show what these two individuals, David Sweat and Richard Matt, may look like after about 10 days or so on the run. Artists here have actually added some of that facial hair to make it look like, again, what they may look like.

So, investigators now want people to take a good, hard look at these two images because, at this point, police feel very strongly about this help from the public they've already received. As you mentioned there, at least 1,300 leads. They want people to keep calling because, eventually, if they're able to track these individuals down, which they're confident they will, it will happen with the public's help.

But, again, as that search intensifies and really focuses on this area in upstate New York, it does not mean that investigators aren't looking into neighboring Vermont, north of the border in Canada or, as we've discussed before, Wolf, even south of the border in Mexico.

BLITZER: Yes, they could be almost anywhere by now given the time that has elapsed. What do authorities say, Polo, about this one suspect, this woman who worked in the prison, Joyce Mitchell, who's now been arrested?

SANDOVAL: You know, she remains behind bars right now. One of the -- some of the officials here saying that, really, she has -- because of the attention on this case, she really did become, to a certain extent, a distraction here. So, she was relocated to another prison near Albany. She will be transferred back and forth here to Clinton County as her court appearances progress.

We are also learning now more information about, really, her husband. We know that authorities are still in touch with him. No arrests have been made there. No charges have also been filed. But investigators seem to believe, according to information from sources, that if she did have any knowledge of this -- if he didn't have any knowledge of this, that's because he could have been warned by his wife, Joyce, that these two very dangerous individuals could to potentially go after him. Because, again, this is information now that's being confirmed by investigators that there was this active plot to potentially go after Lyle Mitchell. The main question at this hour, though, Wolf, why that was.

BLITZER: Polo Sandoval on the scene for us. We'll stay in close touch with you. Thank you.

The district attorney also spoke more about the scope of this huge investigation and why they haven't moved on from the immediate area around the prison. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) CAPT. ROBERT LAFOUNTAIN, NEW YORK STATE POLICE: There is no hard evidence that they are outside the area. That being said, I cannot rule that out. But we're going under the -- what I think is the logical belief they can be anywhere. We're not going to rule this area out until we have identified a location that they're at and verified that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, no hunch, right now, as to where they are?

LAFOUNTAIN: I don't operate based on hunches. We operate based on evidence and that's what we're looking for. I can tell you this. There are -- there is no technique or law enforcement tool that is not being used by the state police or by our federal agencies.

[13:05:08] Any avenue that needs to be pursued will be pursued. We're doing it in a joint and coordinated fashion and effort. We're reviewing every piece of evidence that we possibly can.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: The district attorney updating us on what's going on. We're about to speak with the sheriff who's leading this investigation on the scene as well. We'll take a quick break. We'll speak with Sheriff, Sheriff Favro, when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Let's continue the breaking news right now. The massive manhunt under way in the northeastern part of the United States for two killers on the run. Joining us now to talk about this search is Clinton County sheriff, David Favro. Sheriff, thanks very much for joining us. I know your teams have covered at least 10,000 acres in the area where you are right now. What do you think? Did these two escaped inmates, do you think they are still in the vicinity where this prison is or do you think they have moved on elsewhere?

SHERIFF DAVID FAVRO, CLINTON COUNTY, NEW YORK: Well, everybody's going to have their own opinion on that, Wolf. But I think it's important to realize that until we can come up with some concrete information, some physical evidence, some DNA to be able to substantiate they're elsewhere or to substantiate their whereabouts period, we need to continue to go from the hot spot where the escape first started and work our way out from there, making sure the community is safe and making sure that we leave no stone unturned to try and find them.

BLITZER: I know you found some food wrappers, some matted grass. Do you believe that was part of these two guys, these two killers? Do you think that was related?

[13:10:02] FAVRO: We're certainly hoping that it was. We had a little relief there that we thought we were going to get something. It is still being analyzed. But there's -- there was no immediate proof that came from those wrappers or from that bedding or anything that would give us concrete reason to believe that they're here or that they are elsewhere. But we're hoping for that lucky break. BLITZER: I know it's possible they could still be on foot. It's also

possible they're in some sort of vehicle. What's your suspicion right now? Because I take it there have been no reports of stolen vehicles or hijacked vehicles or anything along that nature, right?

FAVRO: There haven't. We haven't had any reports of any criminal activity that would link us to a trail for them. And that's one thing that makes it difficult. They're evidently being cautious and being patient which just means that law enforcement and the community has to be patient as well. There's state police resources. There's sheriff's department resources throughout the state and throughout the country that are being vigilant and that are also imploring upon their public to be able to keep their eyes open to help us out. As you know, most of these cases are broken with good leads from the public that saw something that we can't see from where we are.

BLITZER: Is it -- based on the questioning that you've done to Joyce Mitchell, the woman who worked in these prison and knew these two men, she's now been arrested, is it your conclusion these two guys may have had other outside assistance that could have helped them escape?

FAVRO: I can't answer that directly because you're asking for a conclusion and I think there's still evidence that's being examined. There's still interviews being done. There's a lot of work behind the scenes that I'm not even directly hands-on privy to. So, I really couldn't tell you what the conclusion would be as to whether there were other people.

There's an awful lot of theories out there and certainly a lot of opinions and we've heard the response on what opinions could be. Unfortunately, after things are over, you know, people will be able to Monday morning quarterback these situations.

But when it's going on with the intensity, the organization, the on- ground efforts, there's an immeasurable amount of work that's happening out here from law inforce, from other people, including the community, bringing food and bringing shelter to the members that are working out there on the streets. It's just a huge effort.

BLITZER: Well, just one quick question, Sheriff, because I know you've got to run and if you can answer this question. Has she suggested that other people knew about this, at least in the conversations she's had with law enforcement authorities in recent days?

FAVRO: She has not had any conversations, to me or that I'm aware of, indicating that so I really couldn't tell you if she had spoken with somebody else indicating that. I'm not aware of anything of that nature.

BLITZER: Sheriff, good luck to you. Sheriff David Favro of Clinton County in upstate New York. And if any viewer has any reason to believe that there's some evidence out there, there's been a sighting, what should that viewer do?

FAVRO: They need to call their local law enforcement agency. They can call 911 or they can call the tip line. But it's important that they report these tips as quickly as they possibly can and let law enforcement do the investigation to make the determination if it's real or not real.

BLITZER: And they shouldn't get close to these two guys because, clearly, they're both convicted killers.

FAVRO: Absolutely not. These two men are definitely considered dangerous because of the heinous crimes that they committed and even plotting this escape to get away from their sentence to society tells you what type of people we're dealing with.

BLITZER: Good luck, Sheriff Favro. Thanks very much.

FAVRO: Thank you for your help to you and all the viewers, Wolf.

BLITZER: Thank you.

Up next, we're going live to Capitol Hill here in Washington. Military leaders have just wrapped up testimony on the Obama administration's anti-ISIS strategy. I'll speak with it -- speak about that with an Iraq War veteran. We'll talk about the president's plans, a member of Congress, stand by.

Plus, Donald Trump's next stop, New Hampshire. After all the zingers he dropped yesterday, what will the new presidential candidate say and do next? We're live with a preview. All that and a lot more coming up.

[13:14:16]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:17:40] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back.

Here in Washington today, the U.S. defense secretary, Ash Carter, and the outgoing Joint Chief's chairman, General Martin Dempsey, were called before Congress to discuss the emerging U.S. strategy to fight ISIS in Iraq and Syria. Here are some of the highlights.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ASH CARTER, DEFENSE SECRETARY: We simply haven't received enough recruits. Of the 24,000 Iraqi security forces we had originally envisioned training at our four sites by this fall, we've only received enough recruits to be able to train about 7,000.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are we in a quagmire there? Is it a stalemate? Are we winning? What's going on?

GEN. MARTIN DEMPSEY, JOINT CHIEFS CHAIRMAN: I got it. And - and, by the way, it's - let's - let's talk about the personal pronoun "we." This has to be them, right? So if you're asking, is the United States winning, that's the wrong question.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I'm sorry, that's the question I'm asking. DEMPSEY: Well -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've got soldiers there. we've got a commitment there.

DEMPSEY: Sure.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're flying strikes there. Are we, the United States, the free world, western allies, our allies there, are we winning or losing?

DEMPSEY: We are on path to deliver that which we've committed to delivering, which is security forces, not just the ISF but also the Peshmerga and now the Sunni tribes. We are on path to deliver to them the capability to confront ISIL inside of their sovereign territory.

CARTER: How have the ISF performed? The honest truth is, it's mixed. Some units, like their counterterrorism forces, have fought admirably and relentlessly almost to the point of exhaustion over the past months. Others have dissolved and collapsed.

DEMPSEY: I would not recommend that we put U.S. forces in harm's way simply to stiffen the spine of local forces. If they - if their spine is not stiffened by the threat of ISIL and their way of life, nothing we do is going to stiffen their spine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Secretary Carter also emphasized that U.S. troops are on the ground already as part of the training mission, as he described in, the Iraq.

Let's go to Capitol Hill. Joining us, Arizona Republican Congresswoman Martha McSally. She's a member of the House Armed Services Committee. The congresswoman was there at today's hearing on ISIS. She's a former U.S. Air Force colonel, fighter pilot who flew and commanded missions over Iraq.

Did you get satisfactory answers today, congresswoman?

REP. MARTHA MCSALLY (R), HOUSE ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: No, Wolf, I did not. It really just confirmed deep concerns that I and many of my colleagues have across the aisle, the lack of a coherent strategy, not just for Iraq, using all elements of our national power, but really for the larger Middle East.

[13:20:14] We've got a region where we're negotiating with Iran, which is the elephant in the room, about their nuclear capability, yet they're increasing their influence in the Iraqi government and we're hoping that we can make the Iraqi government be more inclusive. And as Secretary Carter said, hope is not a strategy.

In addition, insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. So I am more concerned about the larger incoherence in the regional strategy and then also specifically in Iraq the military strategy still has some tremendous shortfalls. I raised questions related to them. And the political strategy seems to be, do more of the same with a little bit more hope. So this, I think, just highlighted the concerns, the legitimate concerns, that we have.

BLITZER: What's your level of confidence in the Iraqi government, the partner of the United States in this effort?

MCSALLY: It's not very high. I mean they've shown themselves to, again, be very Shia focused. The sectarian divides are very real. The Iranian influence is very strong. And I'm deeply concerned that they're not going to be able to move forward on the political front.

I think the bigger question for us is, we have national interests - vital national interests in destroying and defeating ISIS that are overlapping but not lined up directly with maybe Iraq's interest. We can't maybe perfectly fix the situation in Iraq politically, but we have our own national interests as a leader of the free world, as a country and - that, you know, leads the west, that they want to attack and destroy, that we destroy and defeat ISIS. And we are not use all of our elements of national power and military power and - to destroy and defeat them and ISIS has the momentum right now, which adds to the psychology for the foreign fighter recruitment that they're taking on America and they're winning.

So I think we need to take a step back. We need to look at using our military in a very - more robust way, using air power for the way it was designed to be used to achieve our military objectives, not just in support of a counterinsurgency operation and hoping that the locals step up because we have vital national interests at stake.

BLITZER: So do you want a lot more U.S. troops on the - about 3,500 now either there -

MCSALLY: Yes.

BLITZER: Or about to be there in the next few weeks. Do you want a lot more, 10,000, 20,000?

MCSALLY: No, it's -

BLITZER: What do you want? What do you -

MCSALLY: Wolf, it's -

BLITZER: What would you recommend to the president?

MCSALLY: Yes, what I would recommend is that we do a comprehensive military strategy to defeat and destroy ISIS using our military capabilities, specifically our air power, in a way that we could actually hit their leadership, hit their command and control, take out their logistics capability and not be stuck with, if we have one civilian casualty, then we're not going to actually drop a bomb, while we allow ISIS to continue to murder civilians because we're not actually achieving our military objective. So I think we need to use our air power in a - in a much more robust way. I think we need to bring our combat search-and-rescue forces closer into Iraq. I think we should be considering embedded joint terminal attack controllers so that we can actually identify more targets.

There's usually two things related to targeting, one is positive identification, what I was calling PID in the hearing, and the other is the collateral damage estimation, what I was called CDE. So if we actually embedded some special forces, JTACs and others, we could actually increase the number of targets we could hit to destroy ISIS and their capability and provide the space for a political solution. If we also changed our no civilian casualties mindset, we could be having our aircraft hit the targets that are going to put them back on their heels instead of the other way around, while we continue to work a political solution.

So this isn't about a boots on the ground argument, it's about using our military power, getting out of the counterinsurgency mindset that we've been stuck in for the last 14 years in a way that is robust to meet our military objectives because we have vital national interests at stake.

BLITZER: Congresswoman, thanks very much for joining us.

MCSALLY: Absolutely. Thanks, Wolf.

BLITZER: Martha McSally is a member of the House Armed Services Committee.

In Syria, meanwhile, Kurdish fighters have scored an important victory over ISIS forces. They say they've taken full control now of the border town of Tal Abyad, a key stop on the supply route to Raqqa, the ISIS capital in Syria. Over the past few days, the battle over the town forced thousands of Syrian citizens to flee across the border into Turkey.

Still ahead, we'll get to American politics. Trump on the trail. The billionaire businessman, the newest candidate for president of the United States, he speaks bluntly and moves towards New Hampshire. But will voters there and elsewhere take him seriously? We'll go there live for a preview.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:28:30] BLITZER: Time to talk politics. Politics here in the United States. Right now, the Democratic presidential candidate, Hillary Clinton, is making a swing through the early voting state of South Carolina. She's got her eye on a key voting block there, millennials. The issue of youth unemployment. She's out to - she's set to roll out a new proposal for a federal apprenticeship program during a speech later today. It would give businesses a $1,500 tax credit for every apprentice that business were to hire.

On the Republican side, the newly declared presidential candidate Jeb Bush is visiting a state where he's trailed in the polls, at least so far. We're talking about Iowa. Bush started his day by appearing at a backyard meet-and-greet. He'll follow up with a town hall in Pella, Iowa, later today. Last month a Quinnipiac University poll found that only 5 percent of Iowa GOP caucus goers said they plan to vote for Bush. That will put him actually seventh in the field of declared or potential 2016 candidates in Iowa.

But even with Bush and Clinton on the trail today, the biggest buzz seems to be around Donald Trump. The billionaire businessman turned reality show star turned presidential candidate is heading to New Hampshire after a brash no-filter announcement speech that was anything but politically correct. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I will be the greatest jobs president that God ever created.

I would repeal and replace the big lie, Obamacare.

Nobody would be tougher on ISIS than Donald Trump.

I will stop Iran from getting nuclear weapons.

I will build a great, great wall on our southern border and I will have Mexico pay for that wall.