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Escaped Killers Added to "15 Most Wanted" List; Charleston Church Massacre; Brian Williams Breaks His Silence. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired June 19, 2015 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:29:50] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Evan Perez reporting live from Washington. Thanks so much.

Those escaped killers, Richard Matt and David Sweat, are officially America's most wanted. U.S. marshals adding the fugitives to their 15 most wanted list offering a $50,000 reward for information that leads to their capture.

The duo is now 14 days into freedom and police say they've cleared more than 160 abandoned buildings near the New York prison where those men broke free.

Alexandra Field live in Dannemora, New York this morning. Good morning, Alexandra.

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.

There's a lot of hope that adding these names to that list of the 15 most wanted could generate some fresh leads. The Marshals Service define that is list as the worst of the worst so that's why they're on it now. New York State Police have continued to search this area along with their law enforcement partners turning their focus to seasonal cabins that are in the area, also asking people who have surveillance cameras or who have trail cameras in the area that may have been recording on the night of the escape or in that time frame to perhaps submit that video.

We are also hearing from Lyle Mitchell's attorney. He is -- Lyle Mitchell is, of course, the husband of Joyce Mitchell, the woman accused of helping these two prisoners escape. The attorney talking about what Lyle Mitchell knew and when he learned it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETER DUMAS, ATTORNEY FOR LYLE MITCHELL: He knows that Joyce, his wife, told him the day that she got brought in and did her statements with the investigators that part of it was that the inmates wanted to kill him. They wanted her to come pick them up, bring them back to Dickinson, and kill him. She disagreed with that, and I think that some threats were made to her from the inmates at that point.

FIELD: She disagreed with what? The plan to kill him or asking for help with the escape? What part bothered her?

DUMAS: She disagreed with the plan to kill him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FIELD: Lyle Mitchell has told his attorney and investigators that he knew nothing about that plot before his wife told him that. He knew nothing about the plans to escape and that he helped in no way. Prosecutors say there's no evidence to suggest that Lyle Mitchell did, and he has not been charged with anything.

He has been speaking to investigators. He could continue to speak to investigators if that is need. He says he has no plans to testify on his wife's behalf. Police have, Carol, been to the Mitchell's home and they've confiscated several items to investigate further including the car that the couple would use to drive to work here at Clinton Correctional. They have also confiscated a cell phone and two paintings that Richard Matt made and gave to Joyce Mitchell -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Alexandra Field reporting live this morning. Thank you. I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:36:39] COSTELLO: Coming up at the top of the hour, we'll hear from Charleston's mayor who will be giving details about tonight's vigil in the wake of that Charleston church massacre.

And for 2016 hopefuls, the shooting is reviving debates on hot button issues like gun control and religion and also race. Ben Carson issuing a statement that reads in part, quote, "In my lifetime I have seen such great progress. Though racial-based hate is still very much alive as last night so violently reminded us."

And in an interview on ABC's "The View", South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham acknowledged racial hatred could have played a role but said religion is also a target.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I can't explain this. I don't know what would make a young man at 21 get so sick and twisted to kill nine people in a church. This is --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think it's a hate crime? Do you feel like it's a hate crime or do you think it's more mentally disturbed?

GRAHAM: Probably both. One probably precludes the other. There are real people out there who are organized to kill people and religion and based on race. This guy is just whacked out but it's 2015. There are people out there looking for Christians to kill them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Ok. So let's talk about this. Lonnie Randolph is the president of the South Carolina NAACP and John Avlon is the editor in chief of the "Daily Beast" and former chief speechwriter for Rudy Giuliani. Welcome to both of you.

Lonnie I want to start with you --

LONNIE RANDOLPH, PRESIDENT, SOUTH CAROLINA NAACP: Good morning.

COSTELLO: Good morning. Lonnie -- I want to start with you. South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley infuriated a lot of people when she said in the immediate aftermath of the shooting that we would never know what motivates someone like Dylann Roof. Lindsey Graham says it could be race but also people want to kill Christians. What's your reaction?

RANDOLPH: Well, it appears -- I did not hear the interview -- but I respect that you are saying what they actually said, and it's unfortunately it's skating around the issue and unfortunate that happens too often with politicians no matter where they're from.

COSTELLO: Why do you think that happens so often Lonnie?

RANDOLPH: Well, because they're allowed to get away with it. Maybe their lives are so busy that they don't have the time and can't find other true issues. But I'm not a politician and it's easy for me to find out the issues because I work and function and serve the people of the state and of this country when I have an opportunity to do so.

And if you listen to the beck and calls, if you listen to the concerns, and if you listen to the things that the people want, they will tell you, everybody won't be a liar, and you will find the truth strictly by mingling and listening to what people have to say. And I don't believe most people are liars. I think that people will tell you the problems and hope that they get some assistance.

And unfortunately in America politics has become too often as Socrates described it as the last refuge for the incompetent. We have too many people who are really not concerned about the citizens of the state or the country or the county or the school board. We have too many people like that who love politics for the wrong reasons.

[10:40:01] COSTELLO: I think many Americans would agree with you there on your last statement.

John, you're a former speechwriter. You know about messaging for politicians. Do you think there's a conscious avoidance? Tell us how difficult it is to come up with a message when you're running for president.

JOHN AVLON, "THE DAILY BEAST": Well, I mean, you know, first of all, I think a lot of these folks run on the fly. We can over interpret the analysis but there's a default to narratives that already exist. And we saw that in the wake of the attack and the comments by the presidential candidates. There was an initial impulse to call this an attack on faith because that's very much a conservative narrative, that conservatives are under attack by culture and society, this being a violent manifestation of that. But that required ignoring what over the course of the day became

increasingly obviously and unavoidable from this sick kid's, you know, apartheid era patches of Rhodesia to now the statement is a race war. This was not about an attack on faith. This was clearly motivated by racism and hate and there's a reluctance and discomfort on the part of many presidential candidates on the Republican side of the aisle to call that out.

But now they're going to have to confront it and they should because we still have a long way to go in this society for all the gains we've made.

COSTELLO: So you think the narrative will change, John?

AVLON: I think they're going to need to confront it. And if they're unwilling to confront it, they should be asked that directly. The same thing goes with the confederate battle flag on state grounds. It's not simply enough to say it's someone else's problem. Where do you stand? Is that appropriate?

But you know, we cannot avoid confronting that this young man was motivated -- racially motivated terrorism. That he wanted to start a race war. That that's an old riff that circulated among the militias and groups before them going back to the KKK and before.

And so we need to confront. Presidential candidates need to confront that even if it's ideologically uncomfortable or if they're afraid it might alienate parts of the base. They want to default to a narrative that's much more comforting to both.

COSTELLO: Lonnie, do you think South Carolina could possible heal from this incident without talking about race?

RANDOLPH: I don't know how they can. We haven't been able to heal from the racism that has existed in this state since 1788. South Carolina was the eighth state in the country to become a member or to join the union. We were number eight to come in. We were number one to go out, and race has always been a problem in South Carolina. This isn't new.

I think it was 1787 that the United States declared that it had adopted the constitution and that all persons in this country would then be called citizens. Well, something happened along the way over the last 238 years because we know how America has treated some people.

Everybody has not been a citizen in this country. My father, a World War II veteran, and it angers me still today how much he suffered, how much other black veterans suffered, those half a million from World War I, the over a million in World War II. We won't have an honest discussion about these issues, and the only way you can address them is to talk about them hopefully with people with good sense and with common sense who want to fix them. Now, if you want to continue to lie and act like they don't exist, well, then you're going to continue to have problems. The young man may have had some issues, but he also was a racist with his issues. COSTELLO: All right. I have to leave it there. Lonnie

Randolph, thank you so much. John Avlon, thanks to you, too. I appreciate it.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, a childhood friend of Dylann Roof tells CNN about the suspect's drunken rants calling for segregation and a race war. More on that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:48:21] COSTELLO: The family of Dylann Roof says they will issue a statement later today. For now there are calls -- for now the reverend for the family, their pastor, is telling CNN that, quote, "It's been difficult."

Brian Todd is in Columbia, South Carolina. He's been trying to learn more about this young man. Brian, what have you found out?

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Carol, we just spoke to a young man named Joey Meek who was a friend of Dylann Roof's when they were in middle school. They lost touch for a few years but then reconnected recently.

Joey Meek said that in recent weeks Dylann Roof had talked about wanting to start a race war, that he favored segregation between whites and blacks in the United States, that he had a six-month plan to do something violent or crazy. I asked him details about the six- month plan, and Joey Meek didn't really have any details, but he said that Dylann Roof had talked about a six-month plan to do something.

So giving indications of a possible violent behavior of Dylann Roof in the weeks leading up to this. He said that Dylann Roof would often talk about this when they were drinking. He said he drank a lot of vodka and when he was really drunk he would talk about this kind of thing.

He said one recent evening when they were talking about this and that Dylann Roof was saying crazy things, Joey Meek got concerned enough that he took Dylann Roof's gun away from him. But then a short time after that Meek told us that he was scared of being possibly arrested for stealing a gun, so he gave the gun back to Dylann Roof, put it back in his car. I asked him how he felt about that, he said he feels terrible and he feels terrible about what happened.

[10:50:00] But he just didn't feel he could really get away with stealing a gun from someone, so he gave it back. So a little bit of nuance and new detail to the accounts of what Dylann Roof was thinking and doing in the weeks leading up to the Charleston shootings -- Carol.

COSTELLO: And, Brian, I'll ask you a difficult question because we haven't heard from the family of Dylann Roof. In fact, they're expected to talk out a little later this afternoon.

But, you know, racists aren't born. They learn that behavior from somewhere and something. Did his friend have any insight into that?

TODD: I really pressed him on that. I said, you know, what changed him? He said that when they were younger, that he didn't see anything in Dylann Roof's behavior that would indicate this. I said what -- was there anything that might have changed him? Was there any experience that he had? Did he ever feel wronged by an African- American person? Did anything happen?

And he said he just didn't know of anything that might have led to this, that might have led to a change in this young man's behavior. Again, you know, Joey Meek said he hadn't seen Dylann Roof for a few years. He doesn't believe Dylann Roof ever finished the ninth grade. He dropped out of high school after the ninth grade. That was about the last time Joey Meek saw him.

He just didn't have any indication of what might have changed Dylann Roof, what might have inspired these kinds of thoughts in his head. And I guess that's something, Carol, that we'll keep trying to find out, but that's really what is kind of a gnawing and very difficult and painful question today.

Brian Todd, thanks for the fine reporting. I appreciate it.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, we're going to talk about Brian Williams because he broke his silence. What he says drove him to make things up -- next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:55:52] COSTELLO: Brian Williams is heading back to the anchor seat but it's not the one he left. Williams will be taking on a reduced role inside the NBC family anchoring breaking news coverage and special reports on MSNBC. This morning Williams appeared on "Today" to talk about how he himself became a headline.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIAN WILLIAMS, NBC ANCHOR: Newspaper stories not liking the person I was reading about, wanting -- I would have given anything to get to the end of the story and have it be someone else, but it was about me. These statements I made. I own this. I own up to this, and I had to go through and see and try to figure out how it happened.

It is clear that after work when I got out of the building, when I got out of that realm, I used a double standard. Something changed, and I was sloppier and I said things that weren't true.

Looking back, it had to have been ego that made me think I had to be sharper, funnier, quicker than anybody else.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Ok. So that was excruciating, Brian Stelter.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Well, he had to do something, right, Carol? He had to say something, he had to start apologizing, and this really is the start of an apology tour. He also met with staffers yesterday in New York and then went to Washington and met with staffers in Washington to apologize in person. And now the jury is out. Now the viewers will decide if they're going to accept his apology.

So as you were listening to his apology, what did you think?

STELTER: I thought we were hearing a man who was truly, deeply stunned by what the last four months have brought him. He was the number one nightly news anchor in the community until he was befallen by his own exaggerations, his own misstatements.

You can hear him trying to figure out what happened, what went wrong, but he says he never intentionally misled anybody. In other words he said he never lied. I don't think everybody believes that. I think there's still a credibility gap here, but at the same time I got to tell you, as I look on Facebook and Twitter, as I read people's comments, a lot of people are happy to see him back. There's clearly a split reaction today.

COSTELLO: We're a forgiving nation. Do you think he will succeed on MSNBC?

STELTER: You know, he has a lot of star power. He has a lot of personality, and he has a lot of fans that want to see him. MSNBC is ratings starved. It's had a real struggle for the past year. One source said to me MSNBC is desperate. They're desperate for a new jolt of energy and Brian Williams could be that energy.

I'm not sure however that he necessarily fits on cable. Cable is about personality, and he doesn't necessarily show all that personality when he's an anchor, when he's a news anchor. That's why he went on late night shows which is what got him into trouble. So this is a very complicated situation.

And, by the way, we should mention he said that the rules of the road are going to be different this time. He's a different person now. But we haven't heard of any editorial changes they'll make to make sure he's telling the truth, to reassure viewers he's telling the truth. That may be a challenge as well.

COSTELLO: All right. Brian Stelter, many thanks to you. I appreciate it.

Checking on some top stories at 59 minutes past -- another case of home grown terror. A second American has been arrested in an ISIS- linked bomb plot in New York City. The FBI arrested Samuel Topaz at his Fort Lee, New Jersey home. They say he planned the attack with Munther Omar Saleh who was arrested earlier this week.

To southern California where hundreds where have been forced to leave their homes as the so-called lake fire wipes out more than 10,000 acres near Big Bear Lake. The blaze shows no signs of slowing down. So far firefighters have only about 5 percent containment.

And a cruise ship carrying nearly 300 people struck a wall in a river lock in upstate New York last night. 17 people received minor injuries. Inspectors are now working to see how badly the ship is damaged and if it will be able to leave. No word on how the cruise liner crashed.

[11:00:01] Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm Carol Costello.

"AT THIS HOUR" with Berman and Bolduan starts now.