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Prayer Vigil Planned; Dylann Roof Hearing. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired June 19, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00] ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: Speaking of that grief, we understand there will be a vigil this evening for the nine worshippers who were killed in that Bible study class. What more can you tell us about that?

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is going to be the chance for the community outpouring. There have been a number of them. And many of them have been rather spontaneous or they've been on short notice. But this is the one that is truly going to try to encompass all the feelings and all of those who want to participate in this community. So it's expected to be a huge event. The mayor has also talked about that there was a fundraising effort that is now underway to help those families lay the victims to rest. But the outpouring and the aftermath of this is a community that has come together in the heartbreak and in the pain and suffering, but not divided, have come together in common grief, Ana.

CABRERA: Well, and after an act of such hate, now we see all the love that really does fill Charleston, South Carolina.

Martin Savidge, thanks so much. We'll, of course, check back in with you around this court appearance.

I want to go now to our Don Lemon who is live in Charleston, South Carolina.

Don.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: (INAUDIBLE). Thank you, Ana.

Again, and as we are awaiting this bond hearing now, I'm joined now by our legal analyst, Sunny Hostin, and also former State Representative Bakari Sellers.

And we're going to certainly get through this together.

So you know - you know the ground here. He is at the Cannon (ph) Detention Center.

BAKARI SELLERS, FORMER SOUTH CAROLINA STATE REPRESENTATIVE: Yes, sir.

LEMON: But he's doing this by video because they're concerned about his safety?

SELLERS: Well, there are some concerns and this is actually a replay of about a month and a half ago when Officer Slager gunned down Walter Scott in the North Charleston police killing. They are actually in the same detention center, which is a little bit apropos.

But he'll have a bond hearing today. There's not much that can be done at that bond hearing. By state statute, magistrates cannot set bonds for these type of offenses, murder, burglary, first and things of the sort. And so he will have an opportunity through his later, whomever, at a later date to apply for a bond. But it's nothing that's going to be too eventful today and his bond will effectively not necessarily be denied but he will not get one.

LEMON: Yes. And we also have attorney Mark Geragos. He's joining us from New York. He's going to help us with this as well.

Mark, thank you for joining us.

MARK GERAGOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Hi, Don.

LEMON: Sunny, here on the ground, investigators say that he has confessed. What does this - what does this mean for his case?

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: That's right. I mean, you know, you would think that would make the prosecution's case a slam dunk. I always advise people, nothing is ever a slam dunk because we're already hearing the murmurings of an insanity defense. Many people are saying, well, he must have been mentally ill to sit with nine people, nine victims, and pray with them and then shot them. And so there must be some sort of history of mental illness. So I suspect we're going to certainly hear a defense. We now know that his - I think he waived his right to counsel initially, but his council today is the head of the public defender's - public defender's office. And so he will be represented and I suspects he'll enter a plea of not guilty.

LEMON: Mark, what does this mean? What does this mean that there is a hate crime? There's no hate crime statute in this state, right?

HOSTIN: That's right.

LEMON: But they're adding this, they're charge - they're saying this is a hate crime. What does this mean legally, Mark?

GERAGOS: You know, it really doesn't matter. And this is one of the kind of frustrating things about these discussions. He's charged with nine murders. Whether there's a hate crime or not a hate crime, it doesn't matter. It's a multiple murder. It's as serious as you get. There's no more serious crime. So whether there's a hate crime or not is really besides the point.

I understand that people want to deal with that because it gives them some kind of explanation for this. But the fact is, is that he's charged with serial murder. There is no more serious crime and there's nothing more you can do to him. It's a - he is going to be charged with the full frontal assault of the law.

Contrary to what Sunny says, if you're talking about slam dunks and I never want to rush to judgment, but if there was ever a case that was a slam dunk in the criminal justice system, this would be it. The idea that somehow he's going to be relying on a mental defense is going to be belied by the fact that he escaped, that he went out of there, that he wanted to start a race war, all of the things that we've heard or that have been leaked out so far tends to be kind of your perfect example of somebody who may be very, very sick but he doesn't meet the definition, the legal definition of insanity.

LEMON: As -

HOSTIN: And I -

LEMON: Go ahead.

HOSTIN: And I - and I think Mark is right certainly if ever there was a slam dunk case, that would be it. But I don't think you can discount the fact that everyone is talking about why he would do this. And everyone is talking about mental illness in this context. So I don't think that you can say that the insanity defense isn't something that will play out in a courtroom.

I also think that the real issue here is rather than a hate crime, whether or not this will be a death penalty case and whether or not they will get the sort of death penalty qualified jury.

LEMON: Yes.

HOSTIN: I think that is going to be the big issue here.

LEMON: Mark, do you want to speak to that?

GERAGOS: Well, one of the interesting things about charging it as a death penalty, even if you don't want it, if you get a death penalty qualified jury, what that means is you get people who tend to skew more conservative, more pro-prosecution.

[14:05:15] The twist in this case is that you tend to get people who are more race-based or racist, if you will. And I know that that's unpopular to say, but it's true based on all of the studies. So there's an interesting dynamic here given the race - the racial undertones of this particular individual.

And going back to what Sunny says, in terms of the mental illness, this discussion is going to be whether if you are a racist or if you've got a race-based motive for something, does that, by definition, mean that you're mentally ill? There's a lot of people who would argue maybe that is true and there's a lot of people who would argue, no, that's just part of the kind of fabric of America.

LEMON: What about a plea, Mark? What would you advise?

GERAGOS: What about a plea? The only plea that at any point could be entered here or worked out is if they offered to plead guilty and take the death penalty off the table, and then he would get life without parole. And that's a distinct possibility, I suppose.

LEMON: Yes.

HOSTIN: And that's exactly why I bring up the death penalty. LEMON: Right.

HOSTIN: Because if it is a death penalty case, that does give the prosecution the leeway to take that off the table and give the victims I think some sort of solace because it is very difficult for victims of crimes and their families to go through this kind of case, this kind of high-profile case. And so I suspect that that is going to be a very important decision and it could be a turning point in this case.

LEMON: Yes. I want to tell everybody that we're waiting for the suspect, the 21-year-old suspect in the shooting here at the Emanuel AME Church the day before yesterday - or yesterday evening, I should say, 21-year-old Dylann Roof. He is appearing via satellite, via television because there are concerns about his safety here. And you think that he should - you think that that - you don't like that?

HOSTIN: Well, you know, I'm troubled by it only in the sense that, you know, this was supposed to be an open proceeding, an open courtroom and -

LEMON: And that it was going to happen in about a minute or two.

HOSTIN: Yes. And, Bakari, you practice here in South Carolina.

SELLERS: Yes.

HOSTIN: Is this the norm for most defendants?

SELLERS: Well, in - well, first of all, this isn't - this is not a normal defendant.

HOSTIN: True.

SELLERS: And neither - and neither was Officer Slager.

HOSTIN: But it's a murder - there are murder defendants.

SELLERS: It is a murder trial and I actually appreciate and give the benefit of the doubt to Scarlett Wilson (ph), who is the solicitor - or prosecutor in this - in this area who's going to do a phenomenal job I believe prosecuting both of these cases. And, you know, before we start talking about pleas or anything else and insanity defense and everything else, you know, there was a malice of aforethought. I mean that's important.

HOSTIN: Sure.

SELLERS: I mean he displayed all of those - all of those intentions and plans to go out and murder these nine people.

HOSTIN: But should he be allowed to hide behind the video camera?

SELLERS: His day will come.

HOSTIN: And not be in open court? SELLERS: His day will come, Sunny. His day will come. His day will come in the court of law and justice will be had. I think that these people in this area need to hear that.

LEMON: What are we going to see here? And, again, it's about a minute. We were given a two-minute warning about a minute ago. What are we going to see here?

SELLERS: You won't see much. You won't see much. You will see him come up. He will understand his charges. Do you understand the charges that are being filed against you today? Yes, sir. You have nine murder charges and a weapons charge. You know, and that's going to be about it. I cannot set your bond today, thereby - therefore your bond is denied if they determine to use those -

LEMON: Procedural?

SELLERS: Procedural.

LEMON: Basic proforma (ph).

SELLERS: It's proforma because he has to have a bond hearing within 24 hours and they're giving him one.

HOSTIN: And I think - and I think it's very important to note that this judge in particular doesn't have the authority -

SELLERS: Doesn't have -

HOSTIN: To set a bond.

SELLERS: Correct.

HOSTIN: So this will have to go to a different judge, a circuit court judge.

LEMON: And let's talk about the gun because a .45 caliber weapon, handgun, that, you know, he either got from his father or his father gave him the money. Did we see movement in the video there? It's kind of tough to see. Let me know when we get that.

When we - either his father got it for him or gave him the money for it on April 3rd, which was his birthday, his 21st birthday.

HOSTIN: Well, and I think that's very important because -

LEMON: Because - and he had a gun in his possession when they got him.

HOSTIN: That's right. And we were initially reporting that his father gave him the gun. But what we have learned now is that he purchased the gun from a Charleston gun store in April with money. And I think what is interesting about that is, we know that he had a felony charge pending. And under South Carolina law, and correct me if I'm wrong, a gun dealer would have to check the FBI database for something like that.

SELLERS: I think it's a gray area there because of the simple fact that he was not convicted. That he had - that he had a charge pending.

HOSTIN: But he was - but he had - he had a pending -

SELLERS: He had a pending charge.

HOSTIN: Which my interpretation of the law is that that should have been a red flag to the government and he should not have been allowed to purchase the gun.

SELLERS: Well - and -

HOSTIN: But perhaps that's where gun reform comes in.

SELLERS: And that's where you start. That's where you start taking proactive steps to make sure that things like this don't happen again because he was not found guilty of any crime and he was not a felon at the time but he was on bond. This gentleman has a series of issues and the least of which is a jury, if he so chooses, of his peers in Charleston County that will not look favorably upon a man who caused this level of destruction.

[14:10:07] LEMON: Yes. When you - Mark, there's been a lot of back and forth and the president mentioned it yesterday. You know, he said he's done this I think about 14 times that he's spoken out after mass shootings and clearly we need to come to some sort of consensus about what happens with gun laws and gun legislation. But after, you know, 14, under this president, at least he's spoken out about, nothing really changed. Nothing really changed after Newtown. Nothing changed -

SELLERS: That's right.

LEMON: You know, after what happened in California with the police officer. Nothing has really changed. I mean is it going to change after this?

GERAGOS: No, it's not. It's one of the unfortunate realities of our political scene in America, and the president referenced it yesterday, that you don't see this in other kind of advanced societies, nothing is going to change. There is a third rail in American politics. It's the NRA. We just can't change it. No matter what happens, there is no political will. There is no political capital in anybody who gets in the way of trying to change these things. And it's unfortunate and we're going to keep repeating this like a hamster on a wheel.

LEMON: Yes.

HOSTIN: Well, yes. I mean -

LEMON: Go ahead, Bakari.

SELLERS: I was going to say, you know, a statement was just released from Mr. Cotton (ph), who's a board member on the NRA and it's been blasted around - (INAUDIBLE) now, who literally blamed Clementa Pinckney and his folks in the legislature for not allowing his -

LEMON: Blaming the victim.

SELLERS: Blaming the victim. And he said that if - if but for his votes, those eight people and himself would have still been alive. And it's that type of thought, it's that type of ignorance -

LEMON: What, meaning that if they had their own gun?

HOSTIN: If they had -

SELLERS: If you had an open carry type policy.

HOSTIN: If we carry within a church.

LEMON: OK. But let's (INAUDIBLE) do people -

HOSTIN: There would have been a shootout rather than just an execution.

LEMON: You think it would be different though, because when we talk about - when we talk about people - all the murderers and gun, you know, crimes that we see in Chicago and on and on and on, if people are legally allowed, especially people of color, legally allowed to get - do you think things would change?

HOSTIN: I don't think things would change. And, in fact, I think if you look at the studies in other countries, when you have gun control and you take guns out of the hands of -

LEMON: I don't know about that. I don't know about that.

HOSTIN: Well, when you take guns out of the hands of society, it's very - it's very clear that the shootings go down.

LEMON: Let's -

HOSTIN: And there have been many, many studies. And I think that, you know, if it didn't happen when first graders were murdered in Connecticut, it certainly isn't going to happen when nine people get killed in a church.

LEMON: After 20 or so children.

SELLERS: I think - I think we - I think we can say this for certain, that people do have a Second Amendment right to carry. That's - that's (INAUDIBLE).

LEMON: Absolutely.

SELLERS: But -

LEMON: Yes.

SELLERS: This young man did not need to have that weapon.

LEMON: Yes. And - not everybody should be able to -

SELLERS: And I think we can - I think -

LEMON: You should - it should be a right.

SELLERS: And I think we have to find - we - that balance needs to be there.

LEMON: Right.

SELLER: But we should not be afraid to have the discussion.

LEMON: Yes.

HOSTIN: And I think the law is pretty clear that he did not have the right to purchase that gun.

LEMON: Yes.

HOSTIN: But I think that's, you know, people will debate that.

LEMON: OK.

I want to get to the courthouse now. CNN's Martin Savidge is there.

Martin, I understand the media's starting to filter in. Take us to what's - what are you seeing there at the courthouse?

SAVIDGE: Well, we've seen a couple of different scenes. Right now, you're right, the media is just finished getting inside. It is clearly a hot ticket that people want to be inside the courtroom. In fact, it's more than likely that most in the media won't get in the actual courtroom. They'll have to go to the overflow courtroom. And that's because of the other scene that we've been witnessing here, and that's the arrival of family members. And there are quite a few. And they will, of course, be given priority to be seated in the courtroom.

Now, remember, Roof is not going to be there in person. He's going to be connected by a video link, even though this court is actually connected to the jail in which is he is currently being kept. But for security reasons, it is going to be via a video link.

It's anticipated that family members may be given an opportunity by the judge to speak at this hearing. So, although this is a very preliminary hearing and we already know that bond is likely not to be set in any way, what we don't know is what's going to come out in words in that courtroom. And given all the emotions, it could be an extremely powerful setting for all of this to play out in a court of law.

Don.

LEMON: Martin Savidge, stand by. We'll be getting back to you. Bakari Sellers is here, stand by. Mark Geragos, as well as Sunny Hostin, everyone, stand by.

We're going to get to a quick break. We've been given the two-minute warning, but as we know in this business, sometimes two minutes can mean five minutes or sometimes it can mean 30. But you won't miss any of it. As soon as he comes up via video link, we will bring it to you, the 21-year-old suspect in the horrific shooting here in South Carolina. We'll be right back right after this quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:18:39] LEMON: We're back now live with our live breaking news coverage of the shootings in South Carolina. We're awaiting a bond hearing from the 21-year-old suspect in this shooting, 21-year-old Dylann Roof. He's going to appear via video link. And there you see the courtroom - the courthouse there that he is at the Al Cannon Courthouse and that's where he's going to be getting a - at a hearing.

I'm getting new information now from my producers that Martin Savidge has some new details about the gun.

Martin, some new information just coming out, some guidance on that about how he purchased it and just how powerful that gun is.

SAVIDGE: Correct, yes, a .45 caliber, that we knew. We're being told now that it's a Glock 41. That it would have had the capability in a magazine, I believe, to carry about 12 rounds per magazine. Now, we have been told by witnesses or those who have spoken to witnesses that he reloaded multiple times.

Don.

LEMON: Martin, we're going to listen in. The hearing is getting started now, so let's listen in. There's the suspect.

JUDGE JAMES GOSNELL, CHIEF MAGISTRATE OF CHARLESTON COUNTY: Today is June 19, 2015. Charleston County Bond Court. I'm Judge James Gosnell, the chief magistrate of Charleston County.

This is the case of state versus Dylann Roof. Mr. Roof is charged with nine counts of murder and one count of possession of a weapon during the commission of a violent crime.

[14:20:05] Ladies and gentlemen, before I get into the hearing, I'd like to make a statement, please.

Charleston is a very strong community. We have big hearts. We're a very loving community. And we're going to reach out to everyone, all victims, and we will touch them. We have victims, nine of them, but we also have victims on the other side. There are victims on this young man's side of the family. Nobody would have ever thrown them into the whirlwind of events that they have been thrown into. We must find it in our heart that some point in time not only to help those that are victims, but to also help his family as well.

When it's all done and said, Scarlett Wilson, the solicitor, and Ashley Pennington, will have done the best job that they can do. They are some of the finest. Our law enforcement are the finest in this state and they will do their job honorably. I trust they will.

With that being said, we will move forward today with this hearing. Mr. Roof is charged with nine counts of murder and one count of

possession of a weapon during the commission of the crime. Representing the state is solicitor Scarlett Wilson and representing the defendant is Mr. Ashley Pennington.

Does the defendant - excuse me. Does the defendant give me permission to conduct this hearing via video conferencing?

Mr. Pennington.

ASHLEY PENNINGTON: Yes, sir, I've discussed that with Mr. Roof and he's aware that this would be the process and we certainly agree to that.

GOSNELL: Thank you very much.

Mr. Roof has counsel today, he has been appointed, and it would be Mr. Pennington. Is that correct, Ashley?

PENNINGTON: Yes, your honor.

GOSNELL: Thank you, sir.

Mr. Roof, you're charged with nine counts of murder and one count of possession of a weapon during the commission of a violent crime. Your first appearance court date will be October the 23, 2015, at 2:00 p.m. Your second court date - appearance court date will be February the 5th, 2016, at 9:00 a.m.

Mr. Roof, you have the right to a preliminary hearing. This is a hearing to review the evidence that the state is using to establish probable cause, to substantiate the charges that they have brought against you today. I have some questions, if I may, with permission of counsel.

Mr. Roof, is your address 10428 Garners Ferry Road in Eastover, South Carolina? Is it?

DYLANN ROOF: Yes, sir.

GOSNELL: Thank you, sir.

What is your age?

ROOF: Twenty-one.

GOSNELL: You're 21 years. All right. Are you employed?

ROOF: No, sir.

GOSNELL: You're unemployed at this time?

ROOF: Yes, sir.

GOSNELL: Thank you.

Detective Burkhart (ph).

DETECTIVE BURKHART: Yes, sir.

GOSNELL: Does the defendant have a criminal history?

BURKHART: He does, your honor.

GOSNELL: What is it, please?

BURKHART: There's only two charges that I'm aware of. I have a drug possession charge of 3/1/15 and I have a trespassing of 4/26/15.

GOSNELL: Thank you very much.

BURKHART: Yes, sir.

PENNINGTON: Your honor, I would point out that the drug charge is not a disposition. There's no disposition.

GOSNELL: It's pending at this time?

PENNINGTON: That is correct.

GOSNELL: Thank you very much. So noted.

Solicitor Wilson, do you have any statement to make before this court today in regard to these charges?

SCARLETT WILSON, SOLICITOR: Not now, your honor.

GOSNELL: Not at this time.

Mr. Pennington, do you have any statements to make to this court in regard to these charges?

PENNINGTON: Your honor, I've met with Mr. Roof. I think he understands the proceedings. He understands that only a circuit court can set bond in the murder cases. Therefore, we're prepared today to accept the no bond arrangement. We appreciate the court's courtesy and I will gather all information and supply it to him in due course.

GOSNELL: Thank you.

Before we go into the bond process, I would like to ask, are there any members - are there - is there a representative of any of the family that would be here that wish to make a statement before this court before I post or set the bond?

I'll go through this. Susie Jackson, is there a representative of the family of Susie Jackson?

No.

Sandra Singleton? Miss Singleton?

There are. Will you please stand. You have a right as the - as the representative

of the family to make a statement today before we set bond. Would you like to do so, ma'am?

[14:25:09] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, sir.

GOSNELL: Thank you very much.

Ethel Lance, would you like to make a statement in regards to this hearing concerning Ethel Lance as a victim, ma'am?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, sir.

GOSNELL: Would you like to come forward, please?

You are representing the family of Ethel Lance, is that correct?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's right.

GOSNELL: And you are whom, ma'am?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her daughter.

GOSNELL: Her daughter. I'm listening and you can talk to him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just wanted everybody to know she knew (INAUDIBLE). You took something very precious from me and (INAUDIBLE). I will never talk to her ever again. I will never be able to hold her again. But I forgive you. And have mercy on your soul. You've hurt me. You hurt a lot of people. But God forgive you and I forgive you.

GOSNELL: Thank you, ma'am. I appreciate you being here.

Representative of the family of Myra Thompson?

Sir, would you like to make a statement before this court?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

GOSNELL: Please come forward.

Your name, sir?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anthony Thompson.

GOSNELL: Mr. Thompson.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would just like him to know that -

GOSNELL: Speak up for me. I can barely hear you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Say the same thing that was just said. You know, I forgive you and my family forgive you, but we would like you to take this opportunity to repent. Repent, confess, give your life to the one who matters the most, Christ, so that he can change it and change your ways no matter what happened to you and you'll be OK. Do that and you'll be better off than what you are right now.

GOSNELL: Thank you, sir.

Tywanza Sanders?

Your name, ma'am?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Felicia Sanders.

GOSNELL: Thank you, Ms. Sanders, for being here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We welcome you Wednesday night in our Bible study with open arms. You have killed some of the most (INAUDIBLE) people that I know. Every fiber in my body hurts. And I'll never be the same. Tywanza Sanders is my son, but Tywanza was my hero. Tywanza was my hero. But as we said in Bible study, we enjoyed you but may God have mercy on you.

GOSNELL: Thank you, ma'am.

A representative of Daniel Simmons?

Your name, ma'am?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Alana Simmons (ph).

GOSNELL: Thank you, Ms. Simmons, for being here. Your statement, please.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Although my grandfather and the other victims died at the hands of hate, this is proof everyone's plea for your soul is proof that they - they lived in love and their legacies will live in love. So hate won't win. And I just want to thank the court for making sure that hate doesn't win.

GOSNELL: Thank you, ma'am, for being here.

Cynthia Hurd, a representative of the family of Cynthia Hurd?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have nothing to say.

GOSNELL: Thank you very much and thank you for being here today, sir.

[14:30:00] The Reverend Depayne Middleton Doctor?