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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

New Details on Shooting in Charleston. Aired 12:30-13:00p ET.

Aired June 19, 2015 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:00] BANFIELD: But Drew have they -- or was there any conveyance that this family has spoken with Dylann while he is extraditing and jailed and awaiting this now nine murder charges?

GRIFFIN: No. I didn't get that impression at all. And from my experience that would not have taken place in the chain of custody that we saw take place yesterday from captured, to interview, to extradition and even up until this bond hearing that's going to take place. Perhaps, this weekend there will be some interventions. Certainly, there will be some -- a lawyer provided.

But right now, I think, this family is just in shocked and also under a lot of stress dealing with the likes of people like me and on certainly law enforcement asking, you know, what about this gun, what about the -- his leanings and his racial hatred, what about his drug use, why wasn't anything done. And navigating, quite frankly, Ashleigh, to see if there's any kind of legal exposure on behalf of the family here, which, you know, I don't think can be answered quite yet.

BANFIELD: You know, there was this sort of shift back and forth in the reporting of how he got his hands on the gun. At one point, I believe, law enforcement saying that it had been a 21st birthday present from his father and then the family telling CNN, in fact, that he bought it himself. And now, the law enforcement going back on that and confirming that he had purchased this at a gun shop himself.

So the exposure I'm going to go into it at another segment, we have somebody who knows a lot about South Carolina's statutes and just how far that exposure will actually spread in a domino effect or not.

But in the meantime, I just want to get back to what you said right at the beginning that they had this family meeting this morning. I don't know if our cameras were there to capture sort of who was arriving but do we know the extent of the family? How many siblings? The parents, are they together? What is their dynamic?

GRIFFIN: Well, there's two sisters. He is the middle child. Amber, the older one, was the one supposedly getting married this weekend. It was at her house or a house registered in her name where this meeting took place. We know the grandfather was there. He seems to be the patriarch. He is the one who actually came out and explained that it wasn't a directive gun gift, but it was money given to Dylann for his birthday and then Dylann went and bought this gun knowingly or unknowingly of the family, that's where that kind of hint gets in. And we also know that his parents are separated and we don't know what kind of contact that was there, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Well, Drew, that's just an incredible reporting. Do keep us posted if you find out any additional details of this extremely perplexing person and from whence he came.

Drew Griffin, live for us in Columbia.

I want to go over to Charleston, South Carolina, now to the NAACP headquarters where the news conference is getting underway.

I do want to let you know that as they prepare for their statement, we are expecting that the chief speaker of this news conference will be the Reverend Cornell William Brooks, the national -- the NAACP President and CEO nationally. But let's listen in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you for standing in this peace and waiting on us. We appreciate your presence. We're excited that we do have here in our presence our National President Cornell Brooks today.

And we're going to -- I want to briefly let you know who we have here. We've got the president associate here. We got a state president, Dr. Randolph, Lonnie Randolph was -- your local folks probably know exactly who is. Then, we're looking at a state representative here as well.

But in terms of the NAACP representative, I am the vice president here in Charleston. I've got a vice president here, Reverend Joseph Darby. And where is -- our second vice president Robert McGuire. Who -- Where are the executive board members that's here? We've got some staff people in here. Mary Cheatham here, one of our executive committee members. And Jerome Clementz (ph), the treasurer, he make sure we take care of everything.

So you guys are not interested in that, but we want to just make sure you know who we have standing here.

I am actually going to turn to Bryan, President out of North Charleston branch, the Twin City. OK. All right.

So with no further ado, I'm going to let President Brooks come before you in his own way.

(OFF-MIKE)

[12:35:00] CORNELL WILLIAM BROOKS, NAACP NATIONAL PRESIDENT: Good afternoon. My name is Cornell William Brooks. It is my service of the NAACP.

Even on this very sad and tragic occasion, it is, nevertheless, heartwarming to stand with so many presidents of the NAACP, leadership of the NAACP, community leaders, and members of the press, who are bringing your thoughtful analyses to this challenge.

On behalf of the national board of directors, led by Roslyn McCallister Brock, our Special Contribution Fund led by Dr. Dennis Proctor, and 2,100 branches and units of the NAACP all across the loop (ph) and breadth of this country, we come to this place at this moment in this historic city, a city in which I spent a great amount of time as a little boy. My grandfather owning a barbershop not too far from here, my uncle owning a barbershop not too far from here, growing up in little town not too far from here called Georgetown. Being an African Methodist Episcopal Minister four generations in that church, this tragedy hits close to home.

The idea that the pastor could gather his flock in a historic sanctuary to study the Scripture, to study the gospel pinned by the life and sacrifice of the prince of peace, and in that place, in that moment, a stranger, who is no doubt extended the hand of fellowship and the hand of welcome, perhaps, extended a Bible so that he might study the Scripture with these congregates, with these parishioners at the historic Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church.

And that a stranger welcomed into the house of God by the children of God could spend an hour in fellowship, an hour in study, and then, perhaps, lay down a Bible and take up a gun and laid nine people into untimely graves. Tragic death is unconscionable. It is morally incomprehensible. It is a flesh and blood obscenity in our midst.

We, as a nation, as Americans, as African-Americans, as Latinos, as Asians, as Jews and Gentiles, Catholics and Protestants, people of all of faith, all traditions, every hue, every heritage are quite simply shocked by this crime. And that it took place in God's house in the holy city of Charleston, South Carolina. Runs rough-shot over our moral sensibilities. It runs rough-shot over our constitutional and moral values. It is a living, breathing contradiction of everything we stand for as Americans, everything we stand for as South Carolinians, everything we stand for as African Methodists, and most certainly, everything we stand for as members and supporters of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People.

This crime is not merely a crime perpetuated against the church. Not merely a crime perpetuated against the pastor. Not merely a crime perpetuated against non-congregates. It is a hate crime. And as such, it is a crime perpetuated against the conscience of the country, the soul of the country, and our values collectively as a country.

A hate crime is a crime in which all of those who yet believe that we can confront hate with love are victims, all of those who yet believe we can confront violence with nonviolence. We are victims. All of those who believe in the highest values of this country, who believe in the values of the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, who believe in the values of Denmark Vesey, who believe in the values of a church called Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church. This is a crime perpetuated against us, and we are all, as such, victims.

But make no mistake. If one were to survey the history of the NAACP, it's clear that time and time again our members, our leaders and the country we represent has been victimized by hate mongers, purveyors of prejudice, students of a satanic hatred.

[12:40:13] But we have never allowed ourselves to be victims. We have never capitulated. We have never laid prostrate before the demagogue of racism in this country. We have refused to do that. We yet refuse to do that.

So this is a moment, where those who indoctrinated or led this young man down a racist path.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Amen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah.

BROOKS: Who calls him to embellish a vehicle with the confederate flag, a flag that yet waves...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right.

BROOKS: ... in our state capital...

UNDENTIFIED MALE: Amen.

UNDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

BROOKS: ... calls him to embellish his clothing with the flag of Rhodesia, the flag of the free Nelson Mandela apartheid-era South Africa. This is a moment in which we say to them that white nationalist movement, those purveyors of hate, we as Americans will not subscribe to that philosophy. We not give up. We will not give in. We will not give over.

We, as Americans of every hue and every heritage, when church opens on Sunday morning, you will find us there filled with more resolve, more determination, more courage, more commitment. We will attend our churches, our Mosques and our synagogues because we will not be turned around by the religion of hatred, bigotry and bias.

And when Wednesday night Bible study reconvenes, you will find us there holding the word of God studying the depth of the Scriptures that we might discern more clearly the message of Jesus that yet speaks to Jews and Gentiles, Catholics and Protestant, people of every faith that yet says that we can rise up as a nation and love.

But make no mistake. This is a moment in which we have to seriously reexamine our public policy.

Be clear. We have seen demonstrated over the course of these few hours in the wake of this tragedy, a climate of caring and compassion. We've seen people come to this city from all across the country because they care, because they love, because they refuse to allow this one racist murderer...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's right.

BROOKS: ... in our midst to define our values. With that being said, while there's a climate of caring, there's also an atmosphere of hate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. BROOKS: And that these two exist side by side. And unless and until we address the underlying racial animus and inspiration of this crime, we miss the point.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's right.

BROOKS: Were this simply a mass shooting devoid of geography, that is to say it could have taken place in a school or church or mall, that would be something else. But this was a shooting that took place in a church outside which you find these words Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church. It says something about whose inside from the outside.

The fact this shooting took place in a church, in a Bible study where the shooter asked for the pastor by name, it says to us we have to examine the underlying racial animus and racial hate. This was not merely a mass shooting, not merely a matter of gun violence. This was a racial hate crime and must be confronted as such.

UNIDENIIFIED FEMALE: All right. All right.

BROOKS: We say this not because we're trying to sow division, but rather because we're trying to sow unity.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's right.

BROOKS: A unity of purpose, a unity of commitment, a unity of resolve so that we can confront the racism in our midst. And that means certainly symbolically, we cannot have the Confederate flag waving in the state capital.

UNDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's right.

UNIDENTFIED MALE: We got to go. We got to go.

BROOKS: Some will assert that the Confederate flag is merely a symbol of the years gone by.

[12:45:02] A symbol of heritage and not hate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's right.

BROOKS: But where we see that symbol lifted up as an emblem of hate, as a tool of hate, as an inspiration for hate, as an inspiration for violence. That symbol has to come down, that symbol must be removed from our state capital.

And where we have some of our leading policy makers in Washington, in Columbia and in Charleston very much aware of the heritage of the Confederate flag, but coming to the moment in the midst of reasoned debate, in the midst of an emotional tragedy, in the midst of an anguishing moment in our country and we're all coming together and we're saying, yes, there may be multiple sides to this debate but clearly we all have to be on the side of those who lost their lives in a church.

The flag has to come down.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Amen.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Got to go.

BROOKS: We also have to stand behind our justice department, state and local authorities who are investigating and prosecuting these hate crimes and not only prosecuting, not only investigating the shooter but looking into the possibility that the shooter may have been inspired by others.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. All right.

BROOKS: Looking to examine the question whether or not any other unlawful, unconstitutional acts have been engaged in by others. We have to ask the question where did the shooter come from, what inspired him? Who was he acting on behalf of, if anyone?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right.

BROOKS: We have to ask ourselves the question...

UNDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

BROOKS: ... is this a matter of a lone shooter with a singular hatred? We have to ask ourselves the question, can we characterize what happened in the church perpetuated against African-Americans and the values of this country? We have to ask ourselves the question, is the right terminology a lone shooter or is the right terminology a domestic terrorist?

When you terrorize a community, we in Charleston, we in South Carolina, we who are students of the ecumenical church history of this country understand that our churches have been targeted because our churches have been the crossroads of freedom and that church in particular. This was an act of racial terrorism and must be treated as such.

Lastly, the NAACP stands with the families of these victims. We stand with this church and we stand day in and day out. Let me emphasize this. We will be here before this crime was perpetuated. We'll be here long afterwards. We don't engage in press release, press conference leadership. We believe in grassroots caring engaged sustained leadership that represents the values of this country.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Amen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Amen.

BROOKS: Now let me leave you with this thought. There are going to be people who say that this is simply a consequence of the times we're in. It's a lone incident. It's a matter of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I want to say to you very clearly, the NAACP is 106 years old. We were founded in the wake and in response to a form of racialized violence called lynching. We came into being to fight that kind of racialized violence and here we are in 2015 fighting racial profiling, fighting injustice in the criminal justice system.

But be clear, we will fight against this form of racial bigotry. We will fight against this form of violence. Why? Because we believe in this country. We believe in our constitution. We believe in America and we believe that this crime does not represent us. This is not who we are. The people all around this city who are gathered in houses of worship praying for the families of these victims, this is who we are. That's what we represent and we will not give up, we will not give in, we will not give over to the forces of hate. And we will stand together in this moment of crisis.

With that said, I'll take any questions and turn the program over to our president.

[12:45:06] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Should we take questions...

BROOKS: After -- no, excuse me, Dr. Randolph? No, Dr. Randolph, you, come on, please.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Cornell Brooks making some extraordinarily strong points about the NAACP's message in the wake of this massacre at the church in Charleston.

Let me just sort of bullet point exactly where he focused in on. Number one, clearly calling that this should be charged as a hate crime. This is something that the Department of Justice is currently investigating. It is something many people are calling for, also calling for the Confederate flag to be taken down on the state grounds. Doesn't fly over the capital anymore but it flies on the state ground. Cornell Brooks, again, NAACP saying it's time that it comes down as a symbol that needs to be removed.

Also talking about supporting the Department of Justice as it looks to see if the actions of this mass shooter were in fact inspired by others that the question remains, was this just a lone shooter or was this a domestic terrorist?

All good questions conspicuously absent though, no mention at all of gun control in those remarks. Those are extemporaneous remarks and clearly the NAACP says it's going to continue to fight in the wake of these horrors.

Coming up. Terror or hate crime, does it complicate what may already be an easy case? But is it critical morally for a community in anguish? Coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:50:12] BANFIELD: I want to get Marc Lamont Hill in here. He's a Morehouse professor and our political commentator at CNN also Pete Dominick, talk show host from Sirius Radio who's been taking the pulse of his listeners about what happened in Charleston. And also legal analyst, Phil Holloway.

Phil, I'm going to begin with you because there were some things that were said by the NAACP about insisting that the DOJ do everything it can to label this a hate crime and go after it as a hate crime. There's been a lot of talk as well about not just the hate crime issue but also the domestic terror label.

And I just want to get your thoughts because jurisprudentially speaking, that can complicate a case that could be a slam dunk. But morally is it necessary?

PHIL HOLLOWAY, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It is a slam dunk. He's confessed to it. There was a witness, of course, that survived. So I think it's important for it to be labeled for what it is. It clearly was a crime motivated by hate.

That being said, it's important for South Carolina to take ownership of this as a state. Its criminal justice system is well capable of dealing with this. The governor has come out and said this needs to be a death penalty prosecution because when South Carolina takes ownership of it, it says this is not who we are, this is not what we're about, this does not reflect our values...

BANFIELD: Yes, but there's no hate crime legislation. There's no statute in South Carolina which is why I asked. Does the federal government need to come in and label this and pursue it as such even if it's a slam dunk in a state case just to tell the community we hear you?

HOLLOWAY: They absolutely can call it a hate crime in the trial. They don't need legislation to do that. They can say that this was an act motivated by hatred against black people. So they can send the message nationally that that is not what that state is about and that does not reflect their values.

BANFIELD: And just quickly to the gun issue that Drew Griffin pointed out earlier. His family gave him the money for his 21st birthday. He purchased the gun. Does the family have any exposure at all in terms of the gun purchase that was used allegedly to kill and murder nine people?

HOLLOWAY: Certainly if they knew what it was going to be used for. What I'm most concerned about is why he was permitted to purchase a gun while he was out on bond. There should have been some kind of bail restrictions set by these judges that says if you are on bail you are not permitted to possess a firearm.

BANFIELD: And it does that only for a felony. Of course, he was out on a misdemeanor for the drug offense that he was charged with. Stand by, Phil, for a moment if you will. . Marc Lamont Hill, jump in with me and Pete Dominick. And I'm going to let the two of you toggle this out for me. Our morning editorial meeting was rife with people who were almost speechless. But for the most part felt helpless. Speechless, helpless. The speech comes but the helpfulness, where will it come best? I'll start with you, Pete.

PETE DOMINICK, HOST, STAND UP WITH PETE DOMINIC: It's got to come from us. I think specifically and I mean "us". I mean white folks. I really do. I know this is radical to say and a lot of people are going to be outraged by this but we need to look at our country's original sin.

Our founding fathers were liberators of what -- from the crown but they didn't liberate black folks and they didn't fight to. That wasn't the case. We have statues in honor of Confederate war generals. We wave that Confederate flag all over this country and still in South Carolina, it doesn't need to be brought to half mast, that needs to be brought down.

We need to honor what happened in the history of this country and I think it needs to start with us because black folks have been living with this terrorist -- this original terrorism for their entire lives. Something we haven't.

BANFIELD: Senator Mike Johnson, a Democrat in Denver, Marc, posted a note on a church near his home. He actually got up in the middle of the night, drove over to the black church and posted a note saying "I want you to know I stand arm in arm with you today in your grief. I refuse to let one deranged man speak for me and I also refuse to stay silent after his abomination."

And that's white leader telling black congregates, you know, we're with you. But is that enough to say? Is it enough to go to black churches? There's a call for white people to go to black churches. What is needed?

MARC LAMONT HILL, PROFESSOR, MOREHOUSE COLLEGE: Yes, I mean symbolic action is significant. You know, symbols matter. The Confederate flag that waves in South Carolina to this day matters. It's a symbol of where we haven't grown, where we haven't developed and how we continue to be wrapped up in the pathology and logic of white supremacy.

So, I want symbols to be made. Not just tearing down the flag but white allies filling up black churches this Sunday as an active resistance. I want white people to stand up and say this is wrong. Posting notes on the door of the church is great. But we also need substantive policy changes. We need substantive investment in communities. We need to dismantle white supremacy. That ultimately is the thing.

And as Pete said, that's white people's work. You know, I don't want -- yeah, I don't want to make the death penalty. I want us to focus on giving life to millions of people who are suffering under white supremacy.

BANFIELD: All right, Marc Lamont Hill, Pete Dominick, thank you, and Philip Holloway, always thank you for your thoughts too.

[12:55:01] Stay tuned 2:00 today there's going to be an appearance by the man who is suspected up to this point of being a shooter. Thanks for watching. Wolf starts right now.