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Dylann Roof Confesses To Role In Charleston Massacre; Escaped Convicts Still On The Loose. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired June 20, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:00:16] POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Poppy Harlow in New York.

And we begin with breaking news out of Charleston, South Carolina, where a racist manifesto purportedly written by the confessed Charleston church shooter has surfaced. The statements, along with disturbing images of shooter Dylann Roof surfaced online just a few hours ago. CNN is still working to authenticate it. The statement is laden with racist remarks and lays out why Charleston was the target for search a horrific massacre.

This as Dylann Roof remains locked up under suicide watch I and cities unite with Charleston. In Queens, New York, members of AME churches standing together today in solidarity, paying their respects to the nine lives that were lost.

Our Martin Savidge and Alina Machado are live for us in Charleston this afternoon. Defense attorney Mark Geragos, former FBI assistant director Tom Fuentes are we me here in New York.

Let's begin with you, Alina. And let's take through this manifesto. It is incredibly hard just to read, to imagine that someone could think this, write it, and then execute it. What stands out?

ALINA MACHADO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Poppy. This is incredibly disturbing. The manifesto, the apparent manifesto is full of hate and it makes very inflammatory remarks, not just about blacks, but about other minorities.

We are not going to go into the detail of those remarks, but there are parts of this manifesto that may shed some insight, if, in fact, it turns out that Dylann Roof is the one who wrote it. Again, CNN has not been able to authenticate the manifesto. But I want to get into part of this manifesto that does shed some light into what may have been the turning point for Roof. I want to read this to you.

It says in part, the event that truly awakened me was the Trayvon Martin case. I read the Wikipedia article and right away, I was unable to understand what a big deal it was. It was obvious that Zimmerman was in the right, but more importantly, this prompted me to type this the words "black on white crime" into Google and I have never been the same since that day," Poppy.

HARLOW: Alina, it is shocking. It is accompanied by these photos that we're looking at, him standing on the American flag, him holding the confederate flag there as well. Stand by as I talk to Martin Savidge, who's alongside you there in Charleston.

Martin, you've been there throughout since hours after this tragic shooting unfolded. Today, what are the people there in Charleston saying?

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, they're not focused on that manifesto, I can tell you that for certain. What they're focused on are couple of things. Number one, they're still in shock. There is a great deal of that. And people are being drawn to the church here to just simply come see with their own eyes and to I think use it as a public grieving place.

There are people who get up and pray. There are people who get up and speak. There's music. So this is a touch stone for that community. And then beyond that point, though, it is a place where people come to remember the victims. A short while ago, we talked to a young woman who remembers the reverend. Reverend Pinckney, the first man to be killed in this vicious assault. Here's her thoughts.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHARON SLAY, MOURNING CHURCH VICTIMS: I was just down here June 6th for a church Sunday school convention. And I was able to meet some of the nine. I was able to meet reverend Pinckney while I was down here, and it was just so heartbreaking.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAVIDGE: I had a conversation outside of the church as well with Arthur Hurd, his wife Cynthia was among those who were killed inside. He was overseas at the time. He works in the merchant marine with the department of defense. He only now has been able to make it here. Very moving to hear his words. And tomorrow would have been his wife's birthday.

The church will reopen tomorrow, and I think that is some of the most welcome news this community has heard. Officially, the authorities say they are done with their investigation as far as this is no longer a crime scene. In the minds of many, it's nothing but what it has always been, a house of worship and a place for people to gather. It will be that again tomorrow morning. Services announced at 9:30 in the morning. You can bet that there will be a huge turnout. We will have a camera inside to be able to bring it to you so that everyone across the country can be a part of the congregation here in Charleston - Poppy.

HARLOW: Martin, what strikes me the most, and I'm sure you on the ground there, is the forgiveness. Where does the forgiveness from these families come from? Because it's pretty unbelievable that some of them have already come out publicly and said to this shooter in court, I forgive you. How do they find that courage?

SAVIDGE: Right. I don't know. You know, I was there yesterday and I heard as they made those very statements and I was dumbfounded. Because I don't know how a person can find that in their heart so soon after such a horrible terror attack. And yet, as someone reminded, they said well, think of the people who they are. They were the kind of people inside of a church on a Wednesday night studying the bible. These are people faith meant everything to them, and of course to their families as well. And one of the primary attributes of faith is forgiveness. And so that's where it comes from. A kind of strength that I certainly don't think I'd have.

[15:05:37] HARLOW: I don't think I would either. People that we can only aspire to be like.

Martin Savidge, thank you for the reporting. Alina Machado, thank you as well.

As we talk about the investigation here, federal investigators are looking at this massacre, they are deciding whether to be prosecuted as an act of domestic terrorism. The FBI director today saying it does not fall in that category.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES COMEY, FBI DIRECTOR: I wouldn't because of the way we define terrorism under the law. Terrorism is an act of violence done or threatened in order to try to influence a public body or the citizenry, so it's more of a political act. And again, based on what I know so far, I don't see it as a political act. That doesn't make it any less horrific, the label, but terrorism has a definition under federal law.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Let's talk about this with former FBI assistant director Tom Fuentes and defense attorney Mark Geragos.

First, let's look, guys, on what defines the three definitions of terrorism, these three characteristics must exist. Let's listen. First, the crime must involve acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law. One criteria for the second characteristic is that it has to appear intended to intimidate or coerce people. And finally, it has to occur in the United States. To you, Tom, do you agree with director Comey, does this not?

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, to be honest, I'm not sure I completely agree with him. I think that, you know, in a general sense, if the intent of the attack was to somehow influence policy to bring about a race war, to bring about another war, that's similar to what we see with ISIS and other terrorist groups, that they're trying to achieve a political or a religious end using violence. So to me, I think what he's really saying is that it's much harder to prove that element when you already have a much easier case with the nine murders.

HARLOW: Hate crime.

FUENTES: You know, or even hate crime. Hate crime predominantly is used to elevate a crime from say a third-degree felony or a level two felony or level two to a one in. In this case, where you have nine counts of premeditated murder, it can't go beyond that. That's as high as it gets, so.

And I think the other political aspect that may be going on behind the scenes, when you say the investigators are trying to determine, the investigators are gathering every fact they can possibly gain. It will be the prosecutors, the department of justice, along with the authorities in South Carolina. They'll decide which prosecution to go with. Which one brings about the greatest penalty and has the biggest impact. And I think politically, there might be a tendency to say let's let South Carolina do this themselves and try to make up for the years and years of segregation and other racist policies.

HARLOW: So Mark Geragos, looking at it from a legal standpoint, when you look at what these prosecutors are going to decide, hate crime, terrorism, one of the other or both, how do you see it?

MARK GERAGOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, as a practical matter, I echo what you just said. It doesn't get any more serious in the criminal law than multiple murder. That's it. You've hit the brass ring, so to speak, of the criminal justice system. So this discussion, both by the FBI director, and frankly, I think he would have been a lot better off not wading into this. Because clearly it fits the definition of domestic terrorism. It's a slam dunk in terms of hitting all three elements. Was it intended to coerce? Yes, his own words were he wanted to start a race war. And all you have to do is substitute white 21-year-old and put Muslim, Arab-type and they would be calling this domestic terrorism. So there's kind of an insidious viewpoint here.

HARLOW: Seems like you're saying there's a double standard.

GERAGOS: Well, there clearly is a double standard and that's why I don't even understand why the FBI is wading into it. We have a set of laws for people who commit multiple murders in this country and it doesn't -- you can't do anything more than you do to them, which this is a death penalty state, that's the ultimate sanction. So this idea of well, is it a hate crime, is it domestic terrorism, is really all kind of silly because ultimately at the end of the day, it's a multiple murder punishable by death.

HARLOW: I want to get your take, Mark, on this judge, right? So the judge that presided over that bond hearing yesterday is really under scrutiny, because in 2005, he made these racist remarks. He even used the "n" word, relaying a story from a sheriff's deputy. And he said there are four kinds of people. And he listed them out. And one of them was the "n" word.

He defends that by saying look, I was trying to guide this young African-American defendant, tell them to make better choices in life. Is this someone who should preside over this case, let alone any case?

[15:10:08] GERAGOS: The best thing you can say about this judge is he's completely tone deaf. And if you take a look at why censored in 2005, as you said, he was trying to make a point, white people, red necks, black people, the "n" word, totally inappropriate in a courtroom. Yesterday what happened -- I would like to ascribe good motives to people. I always try to. And I think when he came out there, he felt emotional and he was trying to say let's heal, let's all get together. But then you don't get up there and start talking about the horrific time that the victim or -- not the victims but the defendant's family has. That is true. Defendants' family goes go through a lot. I have been doing this. I'm entering my fourth decade of doing it. If they are the collateral damage of the criminal justice system and nobody has any sympathy for them.

However, talk about tone deaf. This is the absolute last time where you want to make that statement, and understand what was going on here. This whole thing yesterday was a created for TV court hearing. Down to the video camera that's facing the TV cameras with the two guys standing behind wearing flap jackets and him facing in there so you could see him full frontal, so you could examine his face.

The judge allowing people, the victims to come up and families and give statements. You don't need a victim impact statement because this was a bond hearing and he had no authority to grant bond in a murder case.

HARLOW: And Tom, very quickly, you have noted the southern poverty law center says there are 19 hate groups in South Carolina alone. You're worried about a copycat.

FUENTES: Yes. Not just a copycat, but whether other similar acts are under way, you know, by one of these groups. And you know, the FBI has been fighting white hate groups for 100 years. The KKK and back in the '80s when I was a younger agent, the order, Arian brotherhood, Arian nation and many different groups. McVeigh was a white extremist terrorist what he did, the bombing in Oklahoma City. So this has been going on for many, many years. It's something that they do address aggressively.

GERAGOS: Wait until you see what's going to happen. If they authenticate that he's holding up that federal flag and also a separate photo of burning the American flag, and at the same time you've got certain politicians who already came out yesterday defending the confederate flag and saying that's part of our history and here's your symbol today with this mass murderer holding up the confederate flag and embracing it, there's a whole sub text here.

HARLOW: I do think it's interesting some of the South Carolina lawmakers who have supported that flying over the state house which we will debate later on the show, has come out yesterday and said look. This is something we're going to have to readdress.

GERAGOS: And that was before this think went viral.

HARLOW: Yes, before we saw these photos.

Guys, thank you very much. We have to leave it there. I appreciate it, Tom Fuentes, Mark Geragos.

And really important in all of this are the victims. That's what matters the most. So if you want to help the victims of this tragedy, go to CNN.com/impact. We have a whole list there of ways that you can remember them and you can help them. Again, that's CNN.com/impact.

Coming up, what would you do if you were caught in the crossfire of a mass shooting? And what should you do to increase your chances of survival? We're going to talk to someone who unfortunately has had to write a lot about mass shootings in America, next.

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[15:16:57] HARLOW: Well, a source says Charleston shooter Dylann Roof told investigators he shot and killed the victims at Emanuel AME church because he wanted to start a race war. And today, we may be getting even more insight into the mind of this killer.

A Web site featuring a racist manifesto and images that appear to be Dylann Roof have surfaced on social media. CNN has not been able to authenticate the Web site's contents or who wrote it, but it does talk about Charleston as the target of an attack.

Let's talk about it with John Matthews, he is a former Dallas police officer and author of "mass shootings: six steps to survival."

Thank you for being with me, sir. I appreciate it.

JOHN MATTHEWS, FORMER DALLAS POLICE OFFICER: Thank you, Poppy.

HARLOW: Let's talk about how this man manifesto could be used by investigators. Because he goes in the great details, uses very racist remarks, talks about being motivated by the George Zimmerman-Trayvon Martin situation. What does this do to the investigation?

MATTHEWS: Well, I think what they're looking for is to kind to connect the dots of his planning, his preparation, to show his intent and his motive. He made it well stated, the witnesses said what he said during the shooting. But any other writings, any documents, manifestos, those photographs, all of that ties into the mental state of the offender.

I think it shows that he had planning, that he had purpose, that he was on a mission. I think he been used that word, that he was on a mission. So this goes into the mental state of the offender and proving what he was thinking about at the time.

HARLOW: My colleague Anderson Cooper talked to one of the friends of the survivor in that church massacre. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SYLVIA JOHNSON, COUSIN OF REV. CLEMENTA PINCKNEY: And he shot the young man, his mother was there, and she witnessed -- she pretended as though she was dead. She was shot and dead. But she watched her son fall and laid there, and she laid there in his blood.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: She laid there in his blood?

JOHNSON: Yes, she did. And when I got to talk with her, her entire dress was just drenched in blood. (END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: You've written extensively about mass shootings. How can a mother do that and have to live through that and see her son fall like that, and then pretend to be dead just to survive? What do you make of that?

MATTHEWS: Well, that's actually a very successful survival tactic. In our research, we looked at the shootings going all the way back to 1980. And in numerous circumstances, survivors played dead. It really kind of parallels the mind of the offender. The offender is in a rage. He's working fast through the scene. He's shooting, reloading. He's moving very quickly. And sometimes, he doesn't even know who he shot.

As a matter of fact, the person that he said, I want you alive to tell the story, the question before that was, did I shoot you? Are you alive? He didn't even know who he had shot. So playing dead can be very, very effective because that shooter is moving very quickly through the scene, and doesn't pay attention to you.

[15:19:56] HARLOW: All right, John, stand by because I want to get your take on another story we have just breaking in the last hour or so. This is out of New Orleans, where a police officer named Daryle Holloway has been shot and killed by a prisoner that he was transporting. He was a member of the force for more than two decades.

In a statement, New Orleans Mayor Mitch Landrieu called the incident despicable, cowardly, adding quote "we are bringing together every law enforcement resource at our disposal to find, capture, and prosecute Travis Boys for this heinous crime."

John, authorities say that the prisoner was able to remove one of his handcuffs, secure a weapon, shoot the officer, drive off in the vehicle. How is that possible in the typical setup of a police transport van?

MATTHEWS: Well, sometimes, we don't have multiple officers in the transport. Sometimes we're -- you know, frankly, human nature, we're in a hurry. Maybe the shackles weren't secured enough. Maybe the offender had been transported so many times and he knew the routine so well that he knew exactly when to make his move and how to target his victim and secure the weapons and make an escape.

HARLOW: So really key to have two officers at all times?

MATTHEWS: To have two officers at all times. To make sure that we're always diligent. In law enforcement, we call it situational awareness. And that's what we try to teach the citizens, too. That even the routine jobs that we do as police officers every day, you've got to be vigilant because you can be victimized also.

HARLOW: It is absolutely tragic. The picture of this beautiful man who served his city for more than two decades, his life taken in an incident.

John Matthews, thanks for the perspective.

MATTHEWS: Thank you, Poppy.

HARLOW: Coming up next, we are following another story very closely, the manhunt for these two escaped convicts in upstate New York. It has been 14 days, and officials are working to determine who is to blame for the escape.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): We're just three months away from the Malibu triathlon, and the CNN Fit Nation team is going strong.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, baby!

GUPTA: Six-pack member Chip Greeneige says his biggest challenge has been time.

CHIP GREENEIGE, FIT NATION PARTICIPANT: I'm a very busy person. I'm very involved in school activities. I'm a Ph.D. student at Georgia State University. But if you take the time out to actually do it, you see results.

GUPTA: Swimming, biking, and running. Over the last several months, Greeneige says his bad habits have changed.

GREENEIGE: I think the biggest change is really looking at the kind of food choices I do. A lot of times, I would kind of really eat late at night and that's been a big no-no.

GUPTA: And he's getting results.

GREENEIGE: I sat back and said wow, I'm not losing any weight. And I got on the scale and I said oh, my God, I lost 20 pounds!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Twenty pounds, 20 pounds!

GUPTA: Moving forward toward the race, he says his biggest goal is to take it all in.

GREENEIGE: I think my marching orders is to really enjoy it. Enjoy the time. And learn from the experience. But also share it with lots of my friends and family members.

GUPTA: And as for any doubts he has about crossing the finish line?

GREENEIGE: I'm going to do it. That's why I put my mind to do it. And anything I put my mind to do, I do.

GUPTA: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [15:27:06] HARLOW: Two murderers are still out there somewhere, and by now they could be anywhere. Two weeks since they broke out of prison in upstate New York. The trail left by Richard Matt and David Sweat has on all accounts gone completely cold.

One development today, though, prison officials are starting to hold people accountable, disciplining at least one corrections officer and putting him on leave.

Sara Ganim joins me now in Dannemore, New York.

Sara, I do understand that there is somewhat of a new search going on there in Allegheny, New York. Why?

SARA GANIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Poppy. We're just hearing moments ago from state police confirming that they are actively searching following a new lead in Allegheny County, New York.

Allegheny County, New York, actually is a neighboring county to Stuben County, New York, which is significant because we just learned yesterday that last weekend, there were two unconfirmed sightings of two men walking along two different towns in Stuben County, New York. Now, of course, that's about 350 miles away from here where they escaped from this prison, but it borders the Pennsylvania-New York border. These are border towns in the state of New York.

Now, those two sightings, of course, are still unconfirmed. State police at this hour are going over enhanced surveillance tape from one of those two towns, from a business there where these two men were seen walking, two different towns about 20 miles away, two different sets of witnesses reported this to state police. They're looking at that video as we speak, trying to figure out if they can confirm that it was these two escaped inmates. And now just moments ago, we're learning that they're also actively searching, not too far away from there in a bordering county about just west of where those two possible sightings were last weekend, Poppy.

HARLOW: You know, it's interesting, these leads from a week ago now saying there were potentially two independent spottings of these two men. Didn't really come to light until now. And they weren't reported until days later, which obviously time is of the essence here. And now we're learning that one of the corrections officers from inside the prison has been put on leave. Why is that?

GANIM: That's right. Corrections officer put on administrative leave. We don't have many more details, Poppy. We know it was a man. We know that officials have said all along that there's a possibility that there were other people involved in this very elaborate scheme.

And touching on what you just said about the sightings, state police did tell us these two sightings were Saturday and Sunday of last week, but state police were not notified about them until Tuesday. They then sent investigators who started doing interviews, but they didn't even find the surveillance tape until yesterday, until Friday.

So, again, state police reiterated to us that they understand that the community may be -- you know, you see something, you don't think about it until a couple of days later. But they reiterated the importance of giving those leads to state police as soon as you see anything suspicious. But, of course, staying away from these two men, if you possibly do see them, because they are considered very dangerous - Poppy.

[15:30:09] HARLOW: Yes, the urgency of it all and the fact that every moment matters in the search.

Sara Ganim, thanks for the reporting.

Coming up next, we return to our top story, that horrific massacre in South Carolina.

William Faulkner writing "the past is never dead, it isn't even past." We're going to talk about that, focusing on the confederate flag that still flies at full staff above the state house there in Charleston, next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTHONY BOURDAIN, CNN HOST, PARTS UNKNOWN: So here we are, back in Beirut. Got a lot of history in this town. A lot of it bad. Most of it good. But I keep coming back at any opportunity. It's all the good and all the evil in the world in one awesome place. It makes no damn sense at all in the best possible way. And you should come here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:34:57] HARLOW: The South Carolina church where nine people died in this mass shooting will reopen Sunday. You're looking at live pictures of the lines and lines of people outside that church remembering the fallen.

Police have wrapped up their investigation. They no longer consider it a crime scene. This as the racism, the hatred, the extremist views that drove that killer to do what he did come more squarely into focus.

This massacre has also brought the confederate flag back into the spotlight. There is a rally scheduled for two and a half hours from now in support of taking that flag down.

Let's talk about it with Christopher Dickey, he is the foreign editor from "the Daily Beast" and also his new book about racism in the south, our man in Charleston comes out next month. Thank you for being with me, Christopher. I appreciate it.

CHRISTOPHER DICKEY, FOREIGN EDITOR, THE DAILY BEAST: My pleasure, Poppy.

HARLOW: This has been a debate that has been reignited. We will debate it with two people on office assign to the argument next hour. But you talked about the South's tortured relationship with the past, the legacy of the civil war. And you say let's be very clear. This was a war about racism and a war about slavery.

DICKEY: Poppy, it was a war about slavery. I mean, you can still talk to a lot of people in South Carolina and other places in the country who will tell you no, it was about states' rights. But the only states' right that was important that caused the south to secede from the union was the right to own other human beings, other black human beings. And that was what the civil war was fought about.

The idea of covering that up, we can hear it echoed today. We hear it echoes in the discussion of the killings at Emanuel AME church where people are saying, it wasn't really racism. It really wasn't about that. Hell, yes, it was. And that pattern of denial and obfuscation in southern thinking and in American thinking when it comes to racism is really very disturbing and I think we see the consequences now.

HARLOW: Should that flag be anywhere? I heard a woman from Charleston saying in one of our pieces yesterday it is a horrific part of our past, but it is part of our past, and we shouldn't forget that. Is there a more appropriate place for it, or should it not be on display anywhere in the public, unless a private individual decides that they want it on their car or house or what have you?

DICKEY: Well, I think if private individuals want to show the confederate battle flag, which by the way was not the flag of South Carolina or of its troops. It was the flag of northern Virginia. But if they want to show that flag as private individuals, OK.

But that's not what we're talking about. What we're talking about here is the problem of a confederate battle flag flying now near the state house of South Carolina. It used to fly above the state house of South Carolina. But that -- even that was not a matter of tradition. It started going up there in 1962, and what was the message? The message is we're going to continue Jim Crow. We're going to continue to keep black people in virtual slavery, even if we can't do it legally.

HARLOW: And so our viewers know, it was a compromise made in the state legislature in 2000 that allowed it to fly there, and is actually part of the reason why it has not been brought. Defendants of it, say, to half-mast after this shooting.

You're in France, you're joining us from France. You are the foreign editor of "the Daily Beast." I'm interested in what people there are saying about America and focusing on guns and the debate over gun rights in this country and on clearly the existence of racism among some still in this country. What are they saying as they look at America in this lens?

DICKEY: It plays to every cliche that Europeans have about Americans, that everybody's carrying a gun, that people shoot each other randomly, and that it's a deeply racist society. Unfortunately, it is a situation that does seem to confirm those kinds of attitudes by the Europeans, who have plenty of their own problems. There's a lot of racism here. Let's not say it's only in South Carolina. Let's not say it's only in the United States. But the problem is this manifestation of it was so horrible, so dramatic and so much in line with those cliches, it just confirms everybody's prejudices.

HARLOW: Yes. And it just takes you right back to 1963 and those four beautiful young girls dying in that church. A lot of questions about how anyone could carry this out.

Christopher Dickey, thank you very much.

DICKEY: Thank you very much, Poppy.

HARLOW: As I mentioned, Chris has a new book on this coming out, "Our men in Charleston." It comes out focusing on the civil war next month.

Well, the politics that seem to follow a tragedy like this can pose a stiff test for a presidential candidate. Striking the right tone without alienating supporters. We're going to take a look at how 2016 contenders are handling that, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:43:27] HARLOW: The nine people killed in the Charleston church massacre were some of the most beautiful people I've ever known. Those words coming from one of the victims' mothers, who was mourning as is the rest of this country.

(VIDEO CLIP PLAYING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:48:53] HARLOW: Well, the horrific church shooting in Charleston this week has President Obama once again calling for a national discussion on gun control laws in this country. The president saying he refuses to pretend that mass shootings in America are the new normal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Every country has violent, hateful, or mentally unstable people. What's different is not every country is awash with easily accessible guns.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: The president has made statements on at least a dozen tragedies like the one in Charleston involving gun violence since he took office six years ago. Take a look at this. These are the faces of 87 people, 87 people brutally murdered in cold blood in nine mass shootings since the president took office. So many, so many it would not fit into just one graphic. It puts a chilling face on gun violence in America -- fathers, mothers, school children, theater goers, friend, strangers, along with the president those running for his job are joining the millions of Americans stunned by this tragedy.

Take a listen to Jeb Bush.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) [15:50:04] JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This was an evil act of aggression. I don't know what was on the mind or the heart of the man who committed these atrocious crimes but I do know, I do know what was in the heart of the victims. They were meeting in brotherhood and sisterhood in that church. It was Wednesday evening. They were praying.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: This afternoon, presidential candidate Hillary Clinton told the national conference of mayors of America that this country needs common sense gun reform. Then she made it personal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: As a mother, a grandmother, just as a fellow human being, my heart is bursting for them, for these victims and their families, for a wounded community and a wounded church.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: There's this from former Maryland governor and democratic presidential candidate Martin O'Malley writing in an email to supporters yesterday, how many senseless acts of violence in our streets or tragedies in our communities will it take to get our nation to stop caving to special interests like the NRA.

And also, this coming from Republican presidential candidate Rick Perry.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICK PERRY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And I don't -- I think it is healthy for us as a country to have conversations and defend our positions, whatever they may be. So I do have an issue that the knee- jerk from the left is always we're going to take people's guns away from them when in fact there may be a host of contributing factors here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Let's add one more voice to this discussion. Stephen Collinson, CNN politics -- senior political reporter joins me now.

When you look at the reaction so far from this, from candidates on both sides, what's your take?

STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: I think two things, Poppy. The first is how quickly this was turned into a political debate. It's only a few days since this tragedy and people are already marking out their political territory, trying to protect themselves politically, looking if there's some kind of political advantage to be had. Hillary Clinton certainly has no, you know, disadvantage in being seen as the heir to President Barack Obama talking about race and gun issues. And the other thing is the division between Republicans and Democrats

on this. You know, you have Republicans who are facing a very competitive primary in South Carolina next year in which there's going to be a lot of candidates, a few points either way could decide this primary so they're being very careful not to get out ahead of what is a very conservative electorate in that Republican primary on issues like gun control, on issues like race.

Much earlier, a few days ago they were talking this might have been a religiously motivated attack rather than talking about guns and race. So it's a very complex, very complicated equation but these Republican candidates especially are sort of trying to work their way through it over the next few days.

HARLOW: Perhaps the person most in focus on this in terms of candidates is Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina talking about it, addressing the issue of the confederate flag, saying look, it is this person who did this, it is not the flag that did this but also said the discussion around that needs to happen. What do you make of his -- what he's been saying publicly about this that's been political?

COLLINSON: Yes, Lindsey Graham is obviously someone that's even more attuned to the difficulties of this issue, the confederate flag in the south and in South Carolina than some of the other candidates perhaps like Marco Rubio or Jeb Bush that are coming from out of town coming into this primary.

You know, the South Carolina primary's going to be very important for Lindsey Graham's hopes as the hometown candidate. He needs to make a big impression there. So he doesn't want to alienate his own base. But you know, there are very few political points to be gained in South Carolina for candidates in the Republican primary to start coming out against the confederate flag. We have seen in the past in 2000, for example, John McCain got in a lot of trouble. He said he was against flying the confederate flag. Then a few days later he had to reverse himself. That was something that he said he regretted and it contributed to him losing to George W. Bush in that primary.

HARLOW: I thought it was interesting -- I'm hearing we're out of time. I'm sorry, Stephen Collinson. We will talk with you more about this ahead. Appreciate the perspective.

Coming up next we will have much more on this tragedy in Charleston, including details about that manifesto allegedly written by the shooter just surfacing online today and the renewed debate about gun control in this country. Stay with us.

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