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Manhunt for New York Prison Escapees; President Uses N-Word to Make Point on Race; The Seventies; Jordan Spieth Wins PGA Tour. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired June 22, 2015 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:29:45] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. So Jonathan I want to start with you. How close are they to finding these guys.

JONATHAN GILLIAM, FORMER FBI SPECIAL AGENT: Well, I think that the combination of the sighting and the DNA is probably the perfect storm as far as the tip goes. Before it's just been sightings but now they actually have trace physical evidence that they were there.

I think that the only thing that's going to set them back a little bit is the question that you asked a minute ago. How long of a time was it before that tip came in and they were able to get officers out there. That's why I keep saying they need to have a quick reaction force that they can push out there in a moment's notice via helicopters and able to go in there.

That takes a little more training to be able to do that but that's what they need in these cases.

COSTELLO: I'm thinking about the DNA and what the DNA was found on. Maybe food?

GILLIAM: Well, so this is another thing I was saying from the very beginning. If they had help, then they wouldn't have to turn to crime immediately. But if they did not have help outside of the prison, they would then have to turn to crime in order to support themselves.

That's where they end up slipping up by putting their hands on stuff like food, door knobs, anything. I mean you can leave DNA on a lot of stuff. So this is where --

COSTELLO: They took that DNA fast though.

GILLIAM: They turned it around fast but right now you have all the systems set up in place waiting and ready for this to happen. So it's a perfect storm of you get a tip, you find the DNA, you surge and you go back out there. Really though it's going to be can they set up a perimeter. And a blocking force to keep these guys from going any further out.

COSTELLO: And that's what they're working on right now presumably -- right.

GILLIAM: Right.

COSTELLO: so they'll bring the dogs up there again. They'll search the woods around the cabin, et cetera, et cetera.

GILLIAM: That's correct, but as I've been explaining that that perimeter then continues to expand. So they have to have forces outside of that perimeter to search in or at least to block the opportunity for these escapees to move outward.

COSTELLO: OK. And Patrick, there was another new develop over the weekend. Authorities are now questioning another prison guard. His name is Gene Palmer. Supposedly he had a painting done by Matthew Sweat (SIC) in his home. Before you comment on that, I'd like to you listen to Gene Palmer's lawyer, Andrew Brockman. Is that his name? Right. Andrew Brockman. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDREW BROCKWAY, LAWYER FOR GENE PALMER: He lives right down the road from the correctional facility. They know who he is, so he's very scared, which is understandable. This community has been on lockdown for lack of a better word for the past couple weeks.

These two people are psychopaths. They are master manipulators. They're obviously in prison for life, so they have nothing but time to develop schemes to take advantage of innocent people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So Patrick, what's with these prison guards taking home paintings?

PATRICK JOHNSON, FORMER COUNTY JAIL WARDEN: Well, that should not have happened at all. And the correctional officers are trained in this as far as manipulation, and they understand that they're not supposed to become overly friendly with the inmates. You never accept gifts from an inmate no matter what. Even if they want to offer you a piece of hard candy or something like that. You just don't do it. That's crossing the line.

And that is just a test to see if an officer can be manipulated. Now, I don't know this officer's record and how well he worked inside the facility. I understand that maybe he was an escort officer where he moved and mixed throughout the facility, but taking a painting from an inmate is absolutely something you do not do.

COSTELLO: So do you think he was even inadvertently involved in helping these prisoners escape?

JOHNSON: Without knowing what was in the interviews, I understand that he was interviewed for quite a few hours.

COSTELLO: Long time.

JOHNSON: Concerning this, and was put on administrative leave, and without that information in front of me, I'd really be guessing if he helped them escape or not.

COSTELLO: Well, I guess what I'm getting at, the more familiar you are with prison guards, so familiar that you give them a gift and they take it home, you can inadvertently give them a bit of information that helps them in the long run.

JOHNSON: Yes, you could. And if he felt he needed to give that information to him or take that gift from him, then he crossed the line as far as being over familiar with them and he would be very easily targeted for them to gain other information. Just through casual conversations with the inmates and asking them things about the community. Who knows what he talked about when they were escorting them throughout the building. It's a red flag that he crossed the line.

COSTELLO: Patrick Johnson, Jonathan Gilliam -- thanks to both of you. I appreciate it.

Tomorrow CNN takes a deeper look into the New York prison manhunt now in its third week as a CNN investigation tomorrow night 9:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN. I'll be back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: The word is so ugly it's taboo at least for most people, especially the President of the United States, but President Obama went there on comedian Marc Maron's podcast, WTF, that's what it's called. He was making the point about racism -- still existing in the United States. And President Obama used language many consider offensive.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The legacy of slavery, Jim Crow, discrimination in almost every institution of our lives. You know, that casts a long shadow, and that's still part of our DNA that's passed on. We're not cured of it.

MARC MARON, RADAIO HOST: Racism.

[10:39:55] OBAMA: Racism. We are not cured of it clearly. And it's not just a matter of it not being polite to say "nigger" in public. That's not the measure of whether racism still exists or not. It's not just a matter of overt discrimination. We have -- societies don't overnight completely erase everything that happened 200 to 300 years prior.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: With me now Lonnie Randolph, he's the president of the South Carolina chapter of the NAACP. Welcome back.

LONNIE RANDOLPH, SOUTH CAROLINA CHAPTER OF THE NAACP: Good morning.

Lonnie: Good morning. What was the President trying to say?

RANDOLPH: Well, I really don't know. I was a little troubled by hearing that. I think there was a better way to express the point. And had George Washington said it as the first president, I would have been annoyed by it. And hearing it from the 44th president of the United States I'm also bothered by it. I think I know what he was trying to say, but I think there's a better way to even say bad things, and I'm disappointed in what I heard.

COSTELLO: So what message does the President -- does a president of the United States send when he uses that word?

RANDOLPH: Well, I don't know. You'll have to speak with him about that because I'm confused as I stated with you earlier. I don't know what he was trying to send, but when you hear that from anyone, I heard it in 1965 or 1966 when I worked at the Wade Hampton Hotel here in Columbia, and I heard an hour-long speech by Senator Strom Thurmond and it was laced with such language. I heard it this past weekend with all of the media outlets sources speaking of how the magistrate on Friday, magistrate in Charleston, and I think he's the chief magistrate in Charleston that heard the case on Friday.

And, again, I'm troubled because as we work and work continuously and very hard to eradicate and it looks as though we're going to have a lot more trouble and take a lot more time than we expect to in getting America to be America for all people. You don't hear those types of words and that type of belittling of people from other groups of people, and it should never be universally accepted by anyone, even the President.

COSTELLO: I think what the President was trying to say, you know, we've all been taught not to use that word. It's impolite, but that's not enough. We have to look at the bigger picture and do more, and just feeling good about not saying that word isn't good enough.

Well, I agree with that, but, again, I haven't have used the example and he has the right, he's had a free speech. If there's anybody in the country that has a free speech and can what they want to say, I think he does, as I do. There may be some generational issues here. I think I'm 20-some-odd years older than the President, and I don't use the word, and I try to encourage other people not to use it regardless. There's no good place for it, and just doing that I think helps us to see how big of a problem we still have in this country of ensuring that all citizens to be treated in a fair, just, and equitable manner. And, of course, I don't think when you hear persons use it, and I don't know what his motive was again, I know he was trying to make a point, but I think the point could be made of the disparate treatment and the discriminatory practices that African- Americans still receive in education, in the judicial system, the absence of black judges throughout the country.

The Supreme Court appointments and things of that nature. Education in my state, in South Carolina, is still being fought for the way it was fought for in 1947 and 1954 when the Supreme Court ruled basically on the case in south Carolina. So the old cliche the more things change the more they remain the same should be the state's motto because we still are back in that period where we act as if we don't want things to get any better. We like it just the way it is.

COSTELLO: Lonnie Randolph, thank you for your insight as usual. Thank you so much. Coming up in the NEWSROOM, explosions rock the Afghan parliament, and

ISIS is not behind it. We'll have a live report.

[10:44:48] But first, the Vietnam War hit a major turning point in the 1970s. One of the iconic images from that time, a little girl running away from a napalm attack. This week on "THE SEVENTIES", the photographer and his subject now all grown up remember that moment.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PHAN THI KIM PHUC, KIM PHUC FOUNDATION: I had so many questions why me? Why I have to suffer. I didn't do anything wrong. I was a little girl.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: First I saw one airplane flies very low. Boom, boom, boom, boom.

KIM PHUC: All the villagers just run out from that village.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I took a lot of pictures of people dying, people running, and I look back and I shot a girl running. And I say why is the girl no clothes? She keep running and I saw her body, the back skin come off, so terrible I don't want to take more pictures.

KIM PHUC: I always remember that, the horrible day that we ran from life to death.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I put all my camera on highway 1. I had a canteen of water. I put water on her right away Then I pick up Kim in my van and all children follow her in my van. She say I'm dying, I'm dying in my car.

KIM PHUC: We so scared as a child that I got wounded.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I run inside hospital, then inside they say "Sorry we cannot help the children anymore. We don't have enough medicine to help kids. And so my media pass, one of them day tomorrow. I have to go back to my car and hurry, go back to AP Saigon.

KIM PHUC: I really want to thank god that he spare my life when I was a little girl. As 9 years old.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When New Yorker see picture, they call back Saigon. They say that picture front page everywhere in the world.

KIM PHUC: I still have the pain. I still have the scars. I still have the memory but my heart is healed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I call Kim one or two week, she always smiling. OK. I'm not running anymore. I am flying now.

KIM PHUC: It's my message to people when they see that picture. Try not see her as crying out in pain, in fear, and try not to see her as a symbol of war, but try to see her as a symbol for peace.

(END VIDEOTAPE) (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:52:16] COSTELLO: I'm continually amazed at that man's calm. That is amazing. But around him panic erupted. This happened inside the Afghan parliament as Taliban militants detonated explosives and fired rocket propelled grenades in a complex in a bloody raid.. Afghan security forces killed the insurgents before they could breach the compound but two civilians did die in that attack. Dozens more were injured.

CNN's Nic Robertson is live in London with more for you. Hi -- Nic.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Carol. The Taliban has claimed responsibility for this attack. You can really in that video just see how close they came to injuring parliament members there. The lawmakers were voting on a vote of confidence for the new defense minister, and this was really a message by the Taliban. "You're voting for a defense minister, we're out on the streets of Kabul. We can attack you where we want to."

The attack, however, not injuring any of the lawmakers, but in the ensuing gun battle following because there were six Taliban suicide attackers with rocket-propelled grenades, AK-47s, and the fight they had with security forces, two civilians were killed, a woman and a child. 28 others injured, including 9 women and children. Typically the Taliban have been targeting soft targets in Kabul. This was a harder target, much more security, and perhaps that's one of the reasons why they were pushed back and not able to get into where the lawmakers were meeting inside the parliament -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right, Nic Robertson reporting live from London. Thanks so much.

I know the words Greek debt crisis probably don't put you on the edge of your seat but it's important and a deal over there could keep more money in your bank account. Right now the Dow is up over 100 points. You see it there. Almost 139 points up, and that's in part because investors are optimistic that Greece will reach a deal with its creditors keeping the country out of default.

Now, that would make all of these protesters in Athens very happy because if Greece were to default, the country could be forced out of the Eurozone which could put global markets into a tailspin hurting your 401(k).

So there you have it. I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:58:11] COSTELLO: Did you catch Jordan Spieth's dramatic win at the U.S. Open this weekend? At the ripe old age of 21, golf's newest star is becoming no stranger to winning the big titles and making history, too. CNN's Andy Scholes joins us live with more. Good morning.

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS: Good morning, Carol. Jordan Spieth, barely old enough to drink alcohol but he's arguably the best golfer in the world right now. With last night's win, Spieth is the youngest golfer ever to win the Masters and the U.S. Open in the same year. He's now halfway to winning golf's grand slam.

But, you know, he didn't run away with this tournament yesterday. We had high drama at the end. I'll show you how it all unfolded. This is Spieth on 16. He knocks down this birdie putt to move him to 6 under. But he would double bogey 17 and then birdie 18 leaving the door open for Dustin Johnson, and Johnson had this eagle putt right here to win the U.S. Open on 18. He misses it, but all he had to do was tap in this four footer and he would have sent it to a playoff which would have been today, but he missed the four-footer.

That gave Spieth the win. He celebrates with his family as Jordan Spieth wins his first ever U.S. Open.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JORDAN SPIETH, PRO GOLF PLAYER: It's beyond what I dream, what I have ever dreamt of. I mean this is -- what an incredible week handling kind of the nerves and just the grind that is the U.S. Open and to come out on top and just a weird day and a weird finish, but an exciting one.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHOLES: Carol, I like to call Spieth the Lebron of golf. He showed an amazing skill at a young age. Just like Lebron he's followed through. He won two amateur championships, the national championship at Texas, and now he's dominating the PGA tour.

COSTELLO: It's awesome for him. That's just insane. And I got to give him back his green jacket. I borrowed it.

Andy Scholes, thank you so much.

And thanks to all of you for joining me today. I'm Carol Costello. "AT THIS HOUR" with Berman and Bolduan starts now.