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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Police Briefing on Major News Leads in Manhunt for Escaped Inmates; Sources: Inmates' DNA Found in Burglarized Cabin; Charleston Leaders: Take Down Confederate Flag; Obama on Racism: "We Are Not Cured". Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired June 22, 2015 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00] KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you all for joining us "AT THIS HOUR."

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: LEGAL VIEW with Ashleigh Banfield picks up with major news on the New York manhunt right now.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Breaking news, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield.

I want to get you live to Cadyville, New York, where authorities are updating us on that search for the two escaped murders.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The description provided by the witness was similar to the description of our escapees. We conducted a thorough search that has now ended. We have declared that area clear. We continue to pursue evidence in both counties, which includes analyzing security camera footage provided by a business owner in Steuben County. As of right now, both sightings remain unconfirmed.

On a separate track that also started over the weekend, we were investigating a lead in the Owls Head area of Franklin County, New York. We have developed evidence that the suspects may have spent time in a cabin in this area. We have law enforcement officers from around the state and around the nation here today searching for more evidence. We cannot get into the specifics of the evidence that we have recovered while investigating this particular lead. We don't want to put information out in the public that could jeopardize our investigation or our number one objective, which is to find David Matt - correct, David Sweat and Richard Matt and put them back in prison.

The region around Dannemora remains a primary focus of our investigation. We ask the public to remain on alert, take any necessary safety precautions and remain vigilant about reporting anything - anything that is out of the ordinary. This is especially true of seasonal camp owners that are - now that the summer season is here. If you return to your camp and anything is out of place, call 911 immediately.

We also want to renew our call to those who have trail cameras set up around the region to let us know if you have captured footage of any suspicious activity. No lead is too small for us to investigate. Law enforcement is maintaining a strong and visible presence in this region and that will continue until we bring this matter to a close.

We want to thank all of our law enforcement partners at the state, local and federal level for their collaboration. The resources, expertise and experiences they provide are invaluable to our investigation. At this time we'll take a few questions.

QUESTION: Yes, it's already been reported widely that there's some sort of DNA possible (ph) evidence taken from that cabin out there in Owl's Head. So since it's already out there and the public is already aware of this, wouldn't it be beneficial at this point to at least confirm or deny whether or not you did, in fact, find some DNA evidence there?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have recovered specific items from that cabin. We have forwarded them to the appropriate laboratories and reached conclusive determination but we are not prepared to release that evidence at this time so we do not jeopardize the continuity of the investigation.

QUESTION: What's sort of been the most difficult part sort of in this search? I mean specifically with like the weather and stuff like - I mean how hard has it been to sort of deal with that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are a number of factors that make this a complex search - the weather, the terrain, the environment and, frankly, the vast scope of the north country of the Adirondacks.

QUESTION: So are you running DNA tests on the evidence that you - that you retrieved from that cabin? Can you confirm that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We run conclusive tests, which include DNA, on everything and anything that we can send to the laboratories.

QUESTION: OK. Thank you.

QUESTION: Do you have indication that these men have organized assistance in any way or (INAUDIBLE)?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Other than what's been reported and confirmed by an arrest, we have no definitive evidence that anyone else is assisting them, but we are certainly not ruling that out and we're looking at all avenues at our disposal.

QUESTION: Do these (INAUDIBLE) have local knowledge (INAUDIBLE)?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Neither of them are from this area, but that does not discount the fact that they could not have done research or had some collaborations to the location of this cabin or the region in general.

QUESTION: Would you say that the cabin is sort of strongest lead right now sort of since the search began?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a confirmed lead for us. It has generated a massive law enforcement response, as you can see, and we're going to run this to ground. QUESTION: Any idea of the cost of the search so far?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I don't concern myself with the cost of the search. I concern myself with finding the inmates.

QUESTION: Can you speak to how the Vermont State Police have been involved in this?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Vermont State Police have been involved in day one with initial notifications. And that, as you may recall, there was a press conference between Governor Cuomo and Governor Shumlin, where they pledged increased and enhanced cooperation. And I will tell you, as of last night, we tapped into the Vermont State Police because we've had a member of their staff in our command post since the beginning and they have deployed their tactical team to assist us in this region.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think the department of corrections covered that. He is on administrative leave. He is part of the ongoing investigation and I will not comment about how productive or fruitful that investigation has been regarding that particular CO.

[12:05:05] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Last question.

QUESTION: St. Regis Falls school was on lockdown on Thursday (ph). Was that in relation to the search near Owl's Head?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That was a lockdown that occurred out of an abundance of caution last Thursday. We were running a lead in that area. We advised the school district and the local authorities for St. Regis Falls and we just advised them, we're working the area, so that they did not get overly concerned and they opted to take that lockdown and as soon as we were done and exited the area, they lifted the lockdown.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.

BANFIELD: I want to welcome our viewers here in the United States and around the world.

As you look at those two photographs that were front and center at that news conference being held, the key that we're being told is something CNN had already learned, and that is that a cabin that appeared to be burglarized, well, it seems pretty clear that these two men are likely the culprits and may have spent some time there. DNA being tested and linked to those two inmates, Richard Matt and David Sweat, on the run now for 17 days.

And look at the positioning. A new search area just a matter of about 20, 30 miles from the Clinton Correctional Facility from which they escaped more than two weeks ago. That dotted line took them all the way down to the Pennsylvania border, Friendship, New York. Well, that turned out to be nothing. A witness had spotted two men walking along the train tracks and the officers descended upon it but we're learning again that area has been cleared and the focus is right back up near the prison. There you go, 25 miles away. So if they're on foot - and by all accounts that seems to be how these two inmates are traveling - they have not been able to get very far.

Also, critical, appealing to the public. Be careful if you are returning to your seasonable cabin. Not only that, if you've been out on the trails or you've taken photographs or video that is somewhat interesting, the police want to hear from you. They're clearly looking for every lead they can get.

I want to take you now to Jason Carroll, who's live in Cadyville, New York, Deb Feyerick is live with me here as well in the studio, Sara Ganim is in Owl's Head, the subject of that new search.

First to you, Jason. I thought we'd get more information, but it feels like this is the best we could get.

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Me too. Yes, I mean, obviously you heard me trying to press state police about this in terms of what exactly they found there at that cabin, that DNA evidence that has been widely reported that was found in that cabin. But you can see, they're not wanting to give away too much information. There could be a number of reasons for that, Ashleigh. Perhaps they're thinking that perhaps Richard and - Richard Matt and David Sweat might be listening, so they don't want to give up too much information there.

But he did admit that it is one of the strongest leads that they have to date. And this lead being that, as you know, over the weekend, at this cabin, this man did what so many people have been asked to do out here in this rural community, go out and check on your seasonal cabins, your seasonal homes, check and see if they're in good stead. He went out there, saw that it had been broken into, and then apparently saw someone running into the woods. So then after that, they sent in their experts to retrieve evidence from that cabin and, as you heard here just during this press briefing, that evidence is being analyzed as we speak.

So, one of the strongest leads that they have up until this point, but still being somewhat tight-lipped about the evidence that they do have.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: And then the other question I have for you is about this - it was a very quick mention in the news conference but it's been making headlines right across the country.

CARROLL: Yes.

BANFIELD: There is a second - well, they're calling it a prison employee, but I think it may be a prison guard who's been questioned and is on administrative leave. What do we know? CARROLL: He is. His name is Gene Palmer (ph). He's worked there at the

correctional facility for 28 years. He's 57 years old. I spoke to his attorney this morning just before this press conference and he told me that over the weekend he was questioned for 14 hours on Saturday, from 9:00 a.m. until about 11:00 p.m. And he wanted to make it very clear, Ashleigh, he said, yes, he knew Matt, he knew Sweat, knew them for several years working with them, guarding them there on the honor block there at the prison, but he says in no way did he have anything to do knowingly with the escape.

He said, in fact, that the day that the two did make their breakout, he was on vacation. But at this point, he has been placed on administrative leave. He's continuing to cooperate with investigators. But, again, he wanted to make it clear that he had nothing to do with the outbreak.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: All right, Jason, stand by, if you will, for a moment. Don't go anywhere.

Deb Feyerick has been working the phones with your top law enforcement sources and you're learning a lot about what they think they now know given this cabin that's been burglarized.

[12:10:00] DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, yes. Absolutely. First of all, one thing that we have to keep in mind is that that this search area is focused in the region around Dannemora near the Clinton Correctional Facility. It always has been.

What we're seeing is we're seeing an investigation with these people going out looking in the woods, but there's a much more thorough investigation taking place as well. And what I'm being told by sources is that there's no evidence that these men have any support network of anyone outside the prison who could potentially help them. And no one has stepped forward, for example, after the plan "a" fell apart, which was Joyce Mitchell picking them up and giving them a ride.

Now, the cabin break just 25 miles from the prison, it's significant. It shows, according to sources, that these men need provisions, that they're on foot, that they're running and that they are potentially desperate. Also a game-changer is that now these two men understand that they have been spotted. Their cover has been blown. That may change the way they respond if confronted, when confronted because now the investigators know - sort of have localized an area that they think has significant potential. So all of that's important.

BANFIELD: And what about this notion that they actually might be monitoring communications? Whether it's the media, monitoring the media -

FEYERICK: Yes.

BANFIELD: Or monitoring actual police communications?

FEYERICK: Well, it's very interesting because this is an area, Saranac Lake, that has very bad cell service. So a number of these cabins actually have scanners inside to communicate with one another. You've got hundreds of law enforcement personnel who are in that region, who are trying to talk to one another because, again, you don't want there to be any sort of friendly fire incidents if, God forbid, something happens. So there's a possibility. And that's why investigators are being as cautious as they can. You even heard the trooper there say that they don't want to jeopardize this investigation -

BANFIELD: Sure.

FEYERICK: By leaks, by information coming out too soon.

BANFIELD: The trooper also mentioned something critical - they're not from here. But that doesn't preclude them from having researched here. I understand prisons to be pretty closed in terms of what access to research materials and online activity inmates have. Isn't that all recordable?

FEYERICK: It's all recordable. Absolutely. Great point. It's all under investigation as well. You have people - you have investigators who are going the prison library, for example. They're looking at books that they may have taken out at - even if they had any sort of computer access because these men were so calculated in how they escaped. The question is, once they got out there and their ride didn't show, they may have not been as prepared as they were on the outside. And that's another reason why they've not gotten so far, why they're so close to that correctional facility, 25 miles.

BANFIELD: OK. I'm going to jump - I want to jump in here for a moment. I am going to go out to Sara Ganim in a moment, but first I want to go down to North Charleston, South Carolina, where Mayor Riley is speaking. Let's listen in.

MAYOR JOE RILEY (D), CHARLESTON, SOUTH CAROLINA: The time has come for the confederate battle flag to move from a public position in front of the state capital to a place of history, the state museum, Confederate Relic Museum. In the museum, it is then there as a piece of history, along with other components of the Civil War and all the roles that people in this state, citizens and soldiers, had in that. It's a historical flag, a piece of history, and it belongs in a history museum.

The confederate battle flag, years and years ago, was appropriated as a symbol of hate and therefore the confederate battle flag that basked in front of the state capital sends mixed messages to those who want to understand it as a part of history, the war, and there are many complicated facets of that, of course. That's one thing. But where it is so often used as a symbol of hate, that has been, of defiance to civil rights and to equal rights and equality among race, a symbol used by the Klan, a symbol you saw at every protest event during times of integration and racial progress, then in front of the state capital for those who harbor any of those kinds of feelings - and we hope they are very few, it nonetheless sends the wrong message.

The grounds of the state capital belong to every citizen of South Carolina. It is quintessentially the most public place in our state. I respectfully ask the general assembly, reasonably tired and weary of their long session, to take the extra step and attend to this and finish business and move this flag to an appropriate historical context.

[12:15:38] And among other things that do, and this is, I know, has overwhelming support of the citizens of South Carolina in every region, in every community, they're ready for this to happen. But this act will do something very personal and very important. And that is to all the broken hearts in this community and around our country, and to those grieving family members that are now trying to prepare themselves for the funeral of their loved one killed in the sanctuary of their church by a bigot carrying the confederate battle flag as an emblem, a signal of his that in this time of huge, most palpable sorrow that we can give this - have this act of encouragement and understanding and love and support, take away Mr. Roof's symbol, the misguided idea of racial superiority and bigotry, take it away from him and all like him and give the front of our state capital equally, fairly, to every citizen of South Carolina.

Thank you.

MARLON KIMPSON (D), SOUTH CAROLINA STATE SENATE: First of all, let me just note the number of leaders we have in this room. We have people from the religious community. We have people from local government. We have community activists and elected officials. That sends a strong message to the governor and the general assembly that the community groups and the people that we represent are asking for us to do our business when we return on tomorrow. I have placed a call this morning to the leadership of the senate and served notice that there is a growing course of senators, South Carolina state senators, that are interested in dealing with this issue before we leave session.

Now, procedurally, where we are is, the official session ended in June and we are coming back tomorrow under a limited - what we call in South Carolina -- sine die resolution to finish the business of the budget. But as Reverend Rivers just correctly stated, it requires a two-thirds vote in the senate and I believe in the house, there are a number of house members, Representative (INAUDIBLE) and Representative Gilliard are both here - but it requires a two-third vote to amend that resolution so that we can take the issue up.

It's very, very important that your elected officials, particularly house members and senators, hear from you. If you are in favor of removing the confederate flag from the statehouse, in front of the statehouse, please call your elected officials because it is the power of the general assembly, not the governor, but the power of the general assembly to do so.

[12:20:33] I would say that to the extent the governor does come out in support of the flag being removed to the statehouse, we welcome her leadership on this issue. She is a powerful voice, as evidenced by her reelection. But as we move forward tomorrow and the next few weeks under the current sine die resolution, it's the general assembly, 46 in the house - senate and 124 in the house, who has the power to bring this matter forward for official business before those respective bodies. It's time to end division in this state. It's time to move forward

into the 21st century. There are many who have cautioned us to wait, but those people are part of the status quo. And what we have to do is galvanize and use this window of opportunity in light of this horrible tragedy and come away with a solution and an agenda to rid this state of hate, division, and racism and I think that ridding the flag from the front of the statehouse is a start.

But let me underscore this. It will not solve the racial divide in South Carolina. We need a positive discourse on the problems that continue to plague our state, including economic opportunities for all. And that's where a number of our colleagues want to focus after we rid the state of this symbol.

I want to applause the NAACP and Major Joe Riley and all others who have been out front on this issue much longer than many of us, including myself, who just got elected to the general assembly in - two years ago. We are working on behalf of all the citizens in South Carolina.

Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chairman Summey.

J. ELLIOTT SUMMEY, CHAIRMAN, CHARLESTON COUNTY COUNCIL: Thank you.

First of all, I think we should really recognize the fact that we have so many different folks from different organizations, whether they be political or community organizations, and as Senator Kimpson said, the NAACP, Mr. Scott (ph), Reverend Darby (ph), Mayor Riley, they've been doing this for a long, long time. I think the mayor's march to Columbia was in 2005, I think. Maybe, longer than that, 2000. It's been a long time.

My U.S. history teacher in the seventh grade was a man I served with on county council named Henry Darby (ph). And Henry taught me that in order to know where you're going, you've got to understand where you've been. We have a great history in South Carolina and in Charleston. We've got a lot of great things that have happened over the course of our existence, but we've got some not so great things, too. And we can't hide from our history. It needs to be told. But it needs to be told appropriately.

BANFIELD: And as we're hearing from the chairman of the Charleston City Council and, of course, hearing from the mayor of Charleston and before that as well Marlon Kimpson, the South Carolina state senator, about this issue and the call to bring down that flag from the state grounds, the confederate flag. If Dylann Roof wanted to start a race war, as he said to police, and it couldn't be more clear that he did. It is now equally, abundantly clear that he has failed miserably.

While the sun was setting on the longest day of the year, South Carolinians and many others instead came together in a unity chain across the Ravenel Bridge more than two miles long. Just take a look at your screen. Look at the length, look at the people, black, white, every color all together. Dylann Roof spent the day instead in a jail cell on suicide watch. The church that Roof desecrated just four days earlier with the cold blooded murder of nine people instead opened its doors to all people just like every Sunday. Emanuel AME, known in Charleston as Mother Emanuel, has overcome evil more than once in its almost 200 year history and not by responding in kind.

[12:25:38] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REV. NORVEL GOFF, PRESIDING ELDER, AME CHURCH: A lot of folk expected us to do something strange and to break out in a riot. Well, they just don't know us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: And yet be it silent or violent, racism endures in America. A sad truth that the president himself, President Obama, expressed bluntly in a podcast interview this morning. I want to play you the president's remarks in which he uses an offensive toward that CNN does not ordinarily broadcast.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The legacy of slavery, Jim Crow, discrimination in almost every institution of our lives, you know, that casts a long shadow and that's still part of our DNA. That's passed on. We're not cured of it.

MARC MARON: Racism?

OBAMA: Racism. We are not cured of it. Clearly. And it's not just a matter of it not being polite to say "nigger" in public. That's not the measure of whether racism still exists or not. It's just not a matter of overt discrimination. We have - societies don't overnight completely erase everything that happened to 200 to 300 years prior.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: This definitely begs a conversation. I have three smart people with strong believes to converse with. Don Lemon is my CNN colleague, a correspondent, an anchor of "CNN Tonight," Jamil Smith is a senior editor at "The New Republic," and Michael Skolnik is the president of globalgrind.com, a news site founded by hip-hop pioneer Russell Simmons.

All three of you, when you listen to that, I've heard presidents on scratchy audiotape that has been unearthed many years after the fact using that word when they think they're in the privacy of their offices. It's jarring. It's - I don't know what to -

DON LEMON, ANCHOR, CNN'S "CNN TONIGHT": I didn't think it was - it wasn't jarring to me at all.

BANFIELD: I didn't know what to make of it.

LEMON: It wasn't jarring to me. I don't know, it was - I - I - I always say you should say it in context.

JAMIL SMITH, SENIOR EDITOR, "THE NEW REPUBLIC": Not - not particularly.

LEMON: I didn't think it was jarring. I think our guidance here at CNN is that it's a word that's offensive. I don't think it's offensive in the way he used it. That's exactly the word that people use. They use the - people don't say, "hey, you're an "n" word," they say nigger. And so I didn't think it was offensive at all that the president said it that way and I don't think we should say it's offensive. We should say it's offensive in the way that Dylann Roof uses it or the way a racist person uses it, but not offensive when the president is trying to bring context to it. It's not offensive. I did not shock me. I was actually happy that he said it when I saw the story.

BANFIELD: Do you think, Jamil, that he - look, he's a measured man.

SMITH: Right.

BANFIELD: He doesn't accidentally slip up with his words. Do you think this was thought out in advance? Do you think this was a quick decision? What do you think his motivation was?

SMITH: It sounded to me like it came off the top of his head. And I think that, you know, there's been a lot of criticism I feel like this morning about whether or not this is beneath the dignity of the president - the presidency. And I think that if, you know, if to say nigger is beneath the dignity of the presidency, someone should have told Lyndon Johnson that. So -

LEMON: Or Nixon.

SMITH: Thank you. And so we have, you know, a president whose speaking frankly on race and I think what's - what he said about overt discrimination not being the only signifier of racism is certainly a lot more important than whatever words he used?

BANFIELD: I can't use the word. It doesn't roll off my lips and it would be anathema to me to do it. I know I'm hearing you do it -

LEMON: I know when I said it you were like - you flinched.

BANFIELD: Oh, here he does again.

LEMON: Yes, I know, I know, I know, I know.

BANFIELD: You know, even when we're in our private moments, Don -

LEMON: Yes.

BANFIELD: I wouldn't say it to you. I wouldn't say it -

LEMON: IN a conversation.

BANFIELD: If you're in a conversation about this topic and even about this president.

So, Michael, is the president wanting to release this word and its power? [12:29:29] MICHAEL SKOLNIK, PRESIDENT, GLOBALGRIND.COM: Well, I think

the president is making a point that we are infatuated with this word when, in fact, we should been infatuated with the 200 to 300 to 400 years of systematic racism that has brought us to a place where a young man can walk into a church and kill nine people cold blooded, right? These systems that are in place that have created racism in this country and created systems for you and I to get ahead and for these two men or who I call friends to have to work harder than you and I to get ahead. That that word, the "n" word, that you say you don't - you can't say, you don't want to say it. I don't want to say that word, right? But that word, on the 911 call when this man called the police in Charleston, South Carolina, he uses that word. He uses that word in his writings in hatred, in bigotry, and that word is simply the end result