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Hala Gorani Tonight
E.U. leaders cautiously welcome Greek proposals; Escaped killers' DNA found in cabin; Dog meat festival under way in China; Dancing after midnight becomes legal in Japan; Daredevil cat clings on for dear life; Israel-Gaza war crimes; Al Jazeera journalist released in Germany; Apple Listens When Taylor Swift Speaks
Aired June 22, 2015 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:10] HALA GORANI, HOST: Tonight Greece on the edge.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Crowds take to the streets of Athens as European leaders gather this hour at the negotiating table. Will we have a deal tonight?
Plus CNN takes you inside a town just liberated from ISSI. In an exclusive repot Arwa Damon goes deep inside a network of tunnels used by the
terrorists.
Also after the tragic shootings in Charleston Barack Obama pulls no punches in speaking out on race even using the N word.
And Taylor Swift takes on Apple and wins. Why the tech giant was forced to change policy as a letter from the singer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Hello everyone I'm Hala Gorani live from CNN, London. This is The World Right Now.
Well we have been watching and we have been waiting, we start in Brussels where Greek and Eurozone leaders are negotiating as we speak.
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GORANI: The key players are trying to keep Greece from going bust at the end of the month essentially. This meeting could flow seamlessly into a
working dinner or it could end at any moment. That has been the volatile nature of these talks. European council president however sounded
optimistic. Listen.
DONALD TUSK, PRESIDENT EUORPEAN COUNCIL: The latest Greek proposals are the first real proposals in many weeks although they still need it's
obvious for me assessment of the institutions and further work of course.
GORANI: Well meanwhile some Greeks are on the streets this evening, these are pictures from just a bit earlier there in Athens. Some of them are
actually calling for their country to remain in the Euro. Others say enough with austerity and their demanding that their country take a firm
stand against that.
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GORANI: Now we're covering this from Athens and New York with reaction from world markets tonight. Elinda Labropoulou and Alison Kosik join me
now. Let's start in Greece with Alynda.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: What is the expectation this evening as to whether or not there will finally be some sort of lasting deal between Greece and its creditors
because this has been going on for so long there's also uncertainty and frustration inside of the country.
ELINDA LABROPOULOU, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well when the day began there was clear indication that we were likely to have a deal today
at least from the Greek side. The Prime Minister had said that he felt confident that a deal could be made today.
However as the day evolved and we had the euro group we had many voices saying you know we may be close to a deal but we're not quite there yet.
And now the summit is underway I think what Greece is hoping for tonight is at least have some preliminary agreement that will pacify both the people
and it will also change the situation with the banks. We understand that in the last week a lot of people have been pulling money from the Greek
bank, this is a situation that obviously cannot just go on indefinitely and I think that this is really what Greece is hoping to get out of this EU
summit tonight. Get some clear indication that a deal can be made later this week.
Greeks have been very concerned about all this just until a little while earlier today a demonstration has been going on, a rally outside parliament
right behind me. A few protestors are still there just kind of saying well our position is in the euro, our position is in Europe. This government
may have been voted to fight austerity but it does not have the mandate to take us out of the Eurozone. And this is something that the Greece
government is going to have to listen to very carefully as it continues these talks and negotiations in the days ahead, Hala.
GORANI: Right, Elinda, standby for just a moment. I want to get to Alison Kosik. Earlier in the day we say markets rallying, we saw markets rallying
in Asia, in Europe as well, the anticipation being potentially that there was a deal.
Now it looks as though best case scenario in a few days. What's happening on markets now?
ALISON KOSIK, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You know Hala, the optimism that you're talking about, it's still there, the DOW is still up over 100
points off the highs of the day but certainly showing a lot of optimism that there could be a deal that could get done.
I mean you look at the change of tone, that's what investors are really looking at. Even the NASDAQ today hitting an all-time intraday record
toping its high at 51.43. That was set on Thursday.
But you are seeing that since the tone has changed with those talks you're seeing investors you know kind of give a thumbs up as to how things are
going because they looked especially dire last week.
You know others are saying perhaps the market is sort of jumping, it's getting a little ahead of itself because there's yet to be a deal. In fact
you did see that little bit of pullback after you saw a Eurozone leader come out and say hey listen don't expect the deal to necessarily get done
today. But still you're seeing the market hold its own. You're not really seeing it blink as of yet, Hala.
[15:05:31] GORANI: All right we'll wait and see based on what comes out Brussels this evening how markets react, thanks very much, Alison Kosik,
and Elinda Labropoulou in Athens.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: To the Middle East now. A recent victory of ISIS in Syria could, and the key word here is could, provide a valuable blue print for future
battles against the militants.
We're getting an extraordinary look now, all this week at the former ISIS (stronghold) of Tal Abyad.
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GORANI: CNN's Arwa Damon was among the first journalists to reach the town after the militants were driven out. Her exclusive report today focuses on
Tal Abyad's strategic important and how Kurdish fighters finally broke through ISIS defenses. Take a look.
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ARWA DAMON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Even members of the YPG the Kurdish fighting force that we were speaking to were expressing just how
surprised they themselves were at how quickly they were able to move through such vital terrain.
For two years ISIS reigned with impunity over this rural landscape. A vital frontier to defend and supply its stronghold of (inaudible) now
beaten back.
There was a coalition airstrike (inaudible) was just saying on that side of this underground tunnel that goes around the entire village.
ISIS had moved into this particular area about two years ago. This obviously dug out with heavy machinery about three feet, three inches, a
meter wide, and pretty high as well. And then you can see the metal ceiling, roof that was put into it running throughout.
ISIS tunnel is fairly crude but still highly effective when it comes to giving them freedom of movement throughout the entire area.
This is the road that runs parallel to the Turkish border and berms like this one had cut it off completely. This was just one of ISIS's many
defenses that they had put into place.
What (Orhan) is saying is that the airstrikes that happened here were key. They took place just a few days before forces advanced into Mabrouka, and
they were highly effective.
In just four weeks the airstrikes allowed the YPG to advance some 80 km, 50 miles taking over key territory including the time of Tal Abyad, and the
border crossing cutting off one of the main ISIS supply routes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When the coalition against ISIS was formed, we were the only force that was committed in the fight against ISIS. Commander of the
Tal Abyad front (inaudible), the coalition saw this and coordinated with us.
He won't disclose specifics. Here the U.S. can say that its strategy has delivered a blow to ISIS but the battlefield is vast and the blueprint for
success hardly easy to replicate.
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DAMON: One of the biggest challenges the U.S. and the coalition will face in trying to replicate the strategy if that is even possible is trying to
find similarly reliable partners on the ground elsewhere in Syria and Iraq.
GORANI: Well success in kicking out ISIS is one thing, recovering from life under the group is another and what Arwa heard from residents of Tal
Abyad was shocking.
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GORANI: They describe a regime of terror where even seemingly minor infractions brought harsh punishment sometimes in cells like these and
often in public.
DAMON: This is the first time in two years that cigarettes are being sold in the streets of Tal Abyad this man was just saying and this is the first
shipment he's brought in.
He's saying that there's a cage at the roundabout down the street that they would put people in for punishment for doing things like selling
cigarettes.
We're taken to see it, and told the story of a man who spent three days here, for playing cards, also banned.
GORANI: Well and even pales in comparison to what Arwa and her team heard about the so called roundabout of death a description earned for the
punishment ISIS carried out there. We'll have more of her exclusive report inside Tal Abyad tomorrow on the World Right Now on CNN.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[15:10:23] GORANI: Now a brazen attack on the heart of power in Afghanistan. Taliban militants set off a car bomb outside parliament as
gunmen tried to storm inside. Afghan television captured the exact moment of the blast which came as law makers were discussing a candidate for
defense minister. Take a look.
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GORANI: That gentleman it has to be said impressive with how calmly he reacted to that explosion. No law makers were hurt in the attack. A woman
and a girl were killed sadly. Dozens of other people were wounded.
Security forces say they kept the attackers from storming parliament ground killing them in a fire fight. But you can see there the cloud of smoke
right inside the parliament chamber.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: A lot more to come tonight as Charleston tries to recover from last week's shooting.
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GORANI: President Obama weighs into the race debate using a very specific word.
And then President Obama's own race becomes the subject of an offensive fleet in Israel from the wife of a high ranking minister. We'll be right
back.
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GORANI: Now to a word used by President Obama himself. A word that is so controversial that we cannot say it on the air because it is so highly
offensive.
The debate over race relations in the U.S. is front and center once again of course following last week's shooting in South Carolina. And during a
Podcast interview the U.S. President Barack Obama, said racism still exists, it's ingrained within the DNA of his country and to make his point
used the following language, listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRESIDENT OBAMA: Racism we are not short of clearly and it's not just a matter of it not being polite to say nigger in public, that's not the
measure of whether racism still exists or not. It's not just a matter of overt discrimination. We have - societies don't overnight completely erase
everything that happened 2 to 300 years prior.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: The people of Charleston are still trying to cope with their grief following the attack. Take a look at the scene outside the Emanuel AME
Church today.
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GORANI: 10 or I should say thousands of people signing a board saying Charleston united. But one issue following the killings is hanging over
South Carolina quite literally. I'm talking of course about the confederate flag. It is still flown in this state, it is still flown at
government buildings and there are increasing calls for it to be taken down.
[15:15:19] The source tells CNN that both South Carolina senators and the governor will call for the removal of the confederate flat from state
grounds. We'll bring you that announcement at the top of the hour when it is expected to happen.
Let's speak more on these different topics, let's bring in Cornel West, Professor of Philosophy and Christian Practice at the Union Theological
Seminary. He's also Professor Emeritus at Princeton University and he joins me now live from CNN Headquarters in Atlanta.
Professor thanks for being with us.
CORNEL WEST, PROFESSOR OF PHILOSOPHY AND CHRISTIAN PRACTICE AT THE UNION THEOLOGICAL SEMINARY: Thank you.
GORANI: First can I ask you for your reaction to the use by the President of the United States of the N word in that podcast interview. What did you
make of it?
WEST: No I thought that President Obama he told the truth about just how deep the legacy of white supremacy action is. But you know the irony Hala
is that there's a sense in which President Obama is himself a niggarized president in the sense that a niggarized black person is a person who is
afraid, intimidated and scared of fighting the vicious legacy of white supremacy. Putting a premium and spotlight on the vicious legacy of white
supremacy. President Obama's been running from the issue of race for almost six and a half years. And so in that sense when he used the word
and talked about how deep it cut he's absolutely right.
But just a few weeks ago he talked about racism wasn't endemic it was just incidental. I said no, it's vicious my brother, but he's telling the truth
now and I agree with him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: But Professor here's the thing; people say this type of rhetoric coming from you is actually extremely divisive. You're no fan of President
Obama.
WEST: I don't mind - I don't mind.
GORANI: You even said he was a Rockefeller republican in black paint.
WEST: I was telling the truth.
(CROSSTALK)
GORANI: Why are you so hard on President Obama? He's the president of all Americans.
WEST: He behaves like a republican, a Rockefeller republican, I'm telling the truth. I don't mind being divisive my sister if I'm telling the truth.
If they show me that the connection to Wall Street, connect to the drones, that connect to the massive surveillance not hidden in (inaudible) complex
the child poverty rate escalating, black poverty escalating, black middle class status declining, all of these are truths. If they point out that
they're not truths I'll pull back but I don't mind being divisive at all. I'm trying to tell the truth that's all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Right, but being the President of the United States of all Americans presents a particular challenge does it not for the first black
President.
WEST: Oh absolutely.
GORANI: That he is not the spokesperson of the black. I mean this is - this is the balance he needs to find ...
WEST: You have to balance political calculation with moral conviction but a president must have moral conviction. You know and I know for example
that in Europe they use a confederate flag as a substitute for the Nazi flag. The confederate flags for black people is a Nazi flag. Now does
that mean political calculation and X and Y have to be considered? No certain things are moral - a matter of moral conviction. The same is true
with black poverty, same is true with working class situations.
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WEST: Same is true in homophobia, same is true in anti-Semitism anti- racism, there are certain things that are nonnegotiable but I begin with black people. Black oppression is non-negotiable. Black president
criticized, white president to be criticized across the board that's how I roll.
GORANI: And you don't think with this use of the N word with him bringing up the fact that racism is ingrained within the DNA of the country of the
first black president is taking a stand? You don't think that's enough?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WEST: Oh no, I said I'm glad he did this is after almost seven years. I said he's telling the truth, anytime anybody tells the truth no matter what
color I'm for, Hala.
GORANI: Let's talk about the confederate flag. We're expecting the governor of South Carolina, Nikki Hailee to come out, we're expecting her
to say she believes they should be taken down.
WEST: She's right - she's right.
GORANI: Yes, I expected that you would say that and many people ...
WEST: ... and you know I'm not used to agreeing with right wing republicans like her 'cause she's wrong most of the time.
GORANI: Right but you think in this case it's right and you think it will go ahead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WEST: I think so, yes. I think given the atmosphere right now we're going to take down a vicious flag that symbolizes enslaving black people and
making sure every negro was under white domination. I think it's about time to take that flag down, yes I think so.
GORANI: But there are some who say in the south this isn't a symbol of black oppression, this isn't celebrating the southern states reliance at
the time of the civil war on slave labor, it's our heritage, it's part of our heritage. What do you say to that?
WEST: I say that if your heritage is one of killing black people, maiming black people, murdering black people, it's time for you to give up that
heritage and try another.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: All right, let's talk a little bit about Charleston. Do you think this is a turning point because from - I'm in London or course ...
WEST: Yes.
GORANI: ... so I'm observing all of this from across the Atlantic. But it seems to me and correct me if I'm wrong but this terrorist attack, this
murder of nine innocent people at that church in Charleston, is - has created a situation where things might change now. Where you have
discussions about the confederate flag, where you have discussions, genuine discussions on race in America. Do you think it will change things?
[15:20:19] WEST: Well I think it goes back to (inaudible), it goes back to Ferguson in Baltimore, (inaudible), right now you're seeing a rising
social motion and social movement of all colors trying to focus on vicious legacy of white supremacy and it's relation to wealth inequality and other
issues.
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WEST: And there's no doubt that Charleston is going to be a major turning point in contributing to that movement. It depends on how courageous we
are, it depends on how visionary we are, it depends on our ability to keep the fire going. And this is a real issue. Because now let me - let me
just say this just quickly right now the press in the United States is talking about forgiveness and black people forgiving those who have
murdered them. And forgiveness I speak as a Christian is fundamental but you don't forgive people a day or two after. If somebody rapes your wife,
you don't forgive them the next day.
GORANI: But that's what the families - it's what the families did though.
WEST: I know and it's a courageous spirit but it's bad theology. It's theology. Forgiveness is not an utterance, forgiveness is a long process
you go through, you forgive when you're at a moment in which you've got yourself together and love can continue to flow. When you have a
niggarized Christianity in America that allows one to forgive others before you've even put your loved ones in the grave, you've got to love yourself
and then love others. But see the main stream press love to see Negros forgiving murderers and yet America never forgives folk who attacks them.
And of course if black folk attack white folk never forgive them.
So no, I believe in forgiveness but not premature forgiveness.
GORANI: OK.
WEST: Not premature.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: All right, Professor Cornel West, thanks very much for being on the program we appreciate your time on this important moment ...
WEST: Thank you so much.
GORANI: ... in American history which might turn out to be that, an important moment in American history. Thank you again.
Well as U.S. President Obama leads the nation in mourning the victims of the racially motivated attack his own race became the focus of an offensive
tweet in Israel.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: The wife of Israel's interior minister posted this message on her twitter page; do you know what Obama Kafi is, black and weak she tweeted.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Judy Mozes the talk show host soon deleted the message and she apologized. She said she was repeating a "stupid joke." Her husband is
responsible for maintaining strategic dialogue with the United States, one of the main ministers in Israel.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: A lot more coming up; Taylor Swift is using her voice for more than just singing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: We'll tell you how Apple changed its policy after the mega star publically shamed the tech giant.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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GORANI: Taylor Swift has spoken and apparently Apple has listened. The pop star threatened to withhold her album 1989 from Apple's new music
streaming service in an open letter on line she criticized the tech giant for its decision not to pay artists during a free trial period. Apple
responded swiftly, get it, by changing its policy. So is Taylor Swift ushering in a new era where artists will be more empowered?
Senior media correspondent Brian Stelter joins me now from New York.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: So Brian essentially Taylor Swift was saying you can't offer music free for three months. Artists can't go three months without getting paid
and Apple u-turned pretty much right away.
BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: That's right almost instantly. This happened on Sunday morning she wrote a blog post about it,
it got shared tens of thousands of times by Taylor Swift's fans. It became a huge PR nightmare for Apple and by the end of the day Apple had reversed
itself and said that they would be paying even for the three month trial period. You know Swift said she was doing this not for herself, she does
not need the money and she knows that, she says that. But for the young artists who she says were afraid to speak up about this.
Once again kind of demonstrating a leadership position in the industry. It was last year she spoke out against Spotify and her music's still not on
Spotify. But with this quick reversal from Apple it sounds like Swift's music will be on Apple Music, that's the new service that launches at the
end of the month.
GORANI: And what is, how does this new service work, Apple Music? And is the free trial now - is it cancelled permanently?
STELTER: Yes there will still be a free trial, it sounds like Apple will you know use the same model their using after the three months where
they're splitting the money they make from the service with music labels. So the free trial will continue. And the free trial's important because
Apple needs to be able to sell this service to people that might already have Spotify or use Pandora or use some other competitive service.
But you know Apple Music is trying to come into a very competitive space and trying to shape that landscape. But Taylor Swift herself said she
thinks that Apple might be company that gets it right, that creates a system that is fair to artists and fair to music labels.
For example they're going to be paying a little bit more to the labels than existing services do so they're starting to move in a direction that would
seem to be more fair to artists.
This three month issue though apparently was as big issue in the industry. We just sort the recording industry president come out praising Taylor
Swift for taking that leadership position on this.
GORANI: And from a PR perspective Apple was quick to respond. I mean it looks as though they handled this pretty well right, they didn't suffer any
damage from it.
STELTER: Yes they may have made a mistake in the first place by arranging this the way it is by not paying the artists for the first three months but
by responding quickly they have made the most of it. In some ways it's become good PR for them as they prepare to launch this service at the end
of the month.
But we should say Taylor's not officially said her music's going back yet. Maybe there's something they're still working out. Maybe they're waiting
to see the legal language from Apple or something. We've been trying to contact her music label today and they haven't commented yet. But now that
they have - that Apple has reversed itself it would make sense that her music will become available on the service. And that is crucial. I mean
we're talking about a woman who's four most recent singles have all been number one on the charts. In fact her most recent hit became number one
yesterday. So on the same day she was celebrating this reversal from Apple she was celebrating yet another hit record.
GORANI: She - this woman has the Midas touch. It's unbelievable.
STELTER: Maybe she should be the president of the recording industry, I mean that's the way she's acting.
GORANI: All right, thanks very much. Everything she does is just a huge success. So thanks very much Brian Stelter, interesting development thanks
for joining.
STELTER: Thanks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: The latest world news headlines just ahead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Plus a calm composed atmosphere in Brussels masking an increasingly urgent undertone in the Greek debt negotiations. We'll hear
from one of the European Finance Ministers with inside that meeting, coming up.
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[15:31:19] HALA GORANI, HOST: A look at your top stories. Welcome back, everybody. Greek and other European leaders are hard at work in Brussels
as we speak trying to avoid a Greek default at the end of June. There is not deal yet. Some E.U. leaders have responded optimistically to a new set
of proposals from Greece. But we are still very much waiting.
Police in the United States say DNA found inside a cabin in New York State matches that of two prison escapees. During the weekend, a witness spotted
a man running into the woods close to the cabin, which is only about 30 miles from the prison where Richard Matt and David Sweat escaped from.
A U.N. report says that both Israel and Palestinian militants may have committed war crimes during the Gaza conflicts last year. It calls the
extent of the human suffering unprecedented. Israel is blasting the report. It says it is politically motivated. Hamas welcomed the
condemnation of Israel but has ignored criticism of its own actions.
Germany has released Al Jazeera journalist, Ahmed Mansour, without charge. He was detained Saturday, you'll remember, in Berlin at the request of his
native Egypt. A Cairo court convicted Mansour in absentia last year on charges of torturing a lawyer in Tahrir Square in 2011. Mansour says the
charges were fabricated.
E.U. leaders are not writing Greece any checks tonight. But they are at least reviewing a new round of proposals from the indebted country. Now,
Greece, it has to be said, is days away from a deadline to repay the IMF around 1.5 billion euros. This is why time is of the essence here.
Economists worry that a default at the end of June could bring Greece a step closer to a messy crash out of the euro. These seemingly peaceful
talks represent efforts to avoid bad (ph) economics - economic doomsday scenario by unlocking some fresh funds.
Everyone is smiling there - a good atmosphere - at least it looks like it is on the surface. Now the leaders' conclave happening at this moment
comes hours after a finance ministers' meeting. The Maltese finance minister joined me earlier to talk about the progress from that event.
I started by asking him a simple question. Will we see a deal tonight?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
EDWARD SCICLUNA, MALTESE FINANCE MINISTER: No, I don't think so. It's a document did not arrive on time for the technical people from the three
institutions (ph) to look into it, evaluate it and report to us in the Eurogroup.
GORANI: Is there a basis for a deal very soon?
SCICLUNA: Yes, of course. First of all, at least the three institutions (ph) reported that at least the document is in the right direction, and
it's come a long way from the 20th of February when the Greek government had refused the memorandum of understanding at that time. And, over time,
it had to come up with its own sort of package which would be acceptable to us.
GORANI: And what concessions has Greece made that will make a deal possible, and when do you think that deal will be announced?
SCICLUNA: Well, everybody is waiting that a deal would be announced. But it's when the - all the sums - all the values sum up so to speak. We don't
know the details. We all know that it's more on the fiscal side rather than on the reform side.
But, you know, one has to go into the details, see where the gap, so-called gap, which existed about a week ago has been narrowed, and everybody's
optimistic that an agreement would be reached over the next two days, where hopefully the Eurogroup would then be able to meet prior to the next
summit, which was already scheduled for the end of this week.
GORANI: Some people in Greece are saying, and some high-level people are saying, maybe it's best for Greece to leave the Eurozone - to leave the
common currency. In the end, we're only being asked to make concessions that are hurting our economy, creating more unemployment. Maybe it's
better to cut our ties. Is this discussed at all in the meetings as a possibility - the meetings you attend?
SCICLUNA: No. First of all, from - from our side - from the Eurozone side - the political fallout is very big. It will be a messy exit. There are
no rules for that. But I'm looking from the Eurozone point of view.
From the Greek side, I - I think the majority doesn't want that either, because Greece will be on its own. And all this theory about getting the
drachma and devaluating - devaluating and so on - on paper they work - will work out.
In practice, it's a big - it's a big, big problem to work on their own without some assistance, because, after all, you'd need to go to the
international financial markets. And, in the absence of that, you would need the solidarity of the group. So, yes in theory it is possible. But I
don't see it being realized.
GORANI: So, last question. Will we see a deal on the coming days or will this be pushed back once again?
SCICLUNA: I see this carrying on in the future for quite a while. If it were to come to an agreement, this would be protracted - lots of
conditions. Then we'll see where the conditions are being met, implemented and so on.
So, unfortunately, either way, whether there is an exit (ph) or even if agreement, this - Greece would still be on the radar screen for - for a
while.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: There you have it. We are going to be talking about Greece for months, according to the Maltese Finance Minister, Edward Scicluna.
Now, let's discuss the next logical steps in the crisis and the likelihood of a solution. Hans-Werner Sinn is a German economist and President of the
IFO - IFO Institute for Economic Research. He joins me live from Cambridge. Sir, thanks for being with us.
I - I read that you were quoted as saying in an article just about a few days ago that the rescue of Greece was an experiment that has failed and
that a Greek exit from the Eurozone is the most sensible solution. Why do you believe that?
HANS-WERNER SINN, GERMAN ECONOMIST AND PRESIDENT, IFO INSTITUTE FOR ECONOMIC RESEARCH: Because all this money - all together 330 billion euros
public money given by the ECB and the rescue funds has not really helped Greece in the sense of getting rid of its unemployment.
In fact, five years ago we started with all these rescue funds. And now the rate of unemployment is more than twice as high - 25 percent. And
youth unemployment is ascending (ph) at 50 percent. This is really a humanitarian catastrophe, -
GORANI: Yes.
SINN: - as Yanul Al Faqi (ph) says, despite all that money. So we have to try something else rather than adding more money. We should give - forgive
some of the debt which Greece has because it obviously cannot repay. It's bankrupt. Al Faqi (ph) said that himself. It's insolvent - BBC (ph).
And, then, we have to make the country competitive. That country came through an inflationary credit bubble into a situation where its prices are
way too high. And the prices have to come down. But they cannot come down in the euro, because people have their debt contracts. They cannot redeem
their debt and so on - private debt - not - I'm not talking about public debt necessarily.
So, it is very, very difficult to do that in the euro.
GORANI: Yes.
SINN: But, if you exit, it is very easy.
GORANI: But, this is - I was gonna say it would be an acknowledgement of a - of a complete failure of the common currency experiment as well. There
is not even a blueprint that was - that was scripted. There is no script for an exit from the Eurozone. How do you even begin to implement
something like this?
SINN: Yes, well, it was not foreseen, that is true. But a bankruptcy was foreseen, in Article 125 of the Treaty for(ph) the (ph) European Union.
And that said that the - the creditors do not get their money back. Now, first the creditors were bailed out with public money. And now there is
the taxpayers of the Eurozone, and they should also face the truth and redeem a large chunk of the Greek debt, I think.
Then an exit is really better. We studied 70 - those 70 countries in the world who, after the world (ph) defaulted and devalued, and we found that,
in nearly all cases, one or two years after the devaluation, new growth occurred. This is because people would stop buying expensive imports.
This is because tourists would return to the country.
GORANI: (INAUDIBLE).
SINN: And primarily this is because the capital flight would stop. Rich Greek have brought their capital abroad. They would return if, say, the
drachma devalued by 50 percent and buy property and build. You know, there would be a construction boom (ph).
GORANI: That makes economic - it makes economic sense. But how does the country raise its own money? It defaults. The drachma devalues perhaps by
50 percent - perhaps more. How do they raise money? How do they issue bonds? Who trust the Greek government to repay its debts anymore? This
would be a disaster that would be - that would unfold over several years if not decades. No?
SINN: No. No, no. They don't need it, you know. They have a primary surplus in the public budget. And, if they devalue, they have a trade (ph)
surplus. They do not need credit from abroad. But it, of course, it is necessary to - to give debt relief. It is not possible for Greece to repay
all this debt.
But they don't need new credit from abroad. This is not - simply not true.
GORANI: OK. Well, do you - if - if, according to what you're saying this would be the most sensible solution for Greece and for the Eurozone, why
are Eurogroup, Eurozone leaders and Greece fighting so hard to keep this relationship in tact?
SINN: Yes, well, this is like - a little bit like when socialism failed to bring prosperity and peace to the people of Eastern Europe. Then the
leaders said, yeah, well, but even if it does not bring that immediately, we - it's a wonderful idea. We have to stick this. I find this cynical.
If the euro does not bring the results for Greece which one had expected, then one should try another way. The ultimate goal should be peace and
prosperity for the people and employment. And you can't get this employment in the euro. This is unfortunately true.
Five years of failed experiment. But Al Faqid (ph) also says it didn't work. So, we actually agree on the analysis. Maybe he wants another
policy solution, but - as I want. But I think he's not far away from this analysis.
GORANI: All right. Well, the old cliche - time will tell - how things develop and whether or not they come up with an agreement - how long it
might last.
Thank you, Hans-Werner Sinn so much for joining us on CNN. We appreciate your time this evening.
SINN: You're welcome.
GORANI: Now to the United States. A possible new lead has reignited the search for two escaped killers in America. Investigators say that DNA
found in a cabin about 30 kilometers from the prison matches that of the two men, Richard Matt and David Sweat.
They broke out of the Clinton Correctional Facility in New York more than two weeks ago. A source says investigators are looking into whether tools
used in the escape were hidden inside a frozen chunk of hamburger meat. You couldn't (ph) make the script up for a movie. People wouldn't believe
it.
(BEGIN VIDETAPE)
For details, we turn to CNNs Boris Sanchez in Owls Head, New York. So, tell us, Boris, first what investigators are saying about other sources of
help the prisoners might be getting while on the run.
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hala, so far they've indicated that the prisoners have had no other help other than Joyce Mitchell in their escape.
Obviously Joyce Mitchell changed her mind at the last minute and didn't go forward the plan to pick them up out of the prison.
But, again, the details we're getting right now are about how they got these tools into their cells. As you said - some bizarre details - a
frozen chunk of hamburger meat that wasn't passed through a metal detector.
Now officials are also looking at the possibility that that woman, Joyce Mitchell, convinced a prison guard to pass that hamburger meat through and
get it to Richard Matt ad David Sweat. These details coming as the biggest lead in the case has become available. DNA inside a cabin that was
broken into here at Owls Head matches Richard Matt and David Sweat.
Investigators believe that is reason to believe they are still in this area. They're asking anyone with information or any evidence as to where
they may be to please give them a call right away.
GORANI: Yes, and one of the other possibilities that has been floated out there is that - and this is something CNN has learned - some concern among
law enforcement that the men are monitoring radio communications. So, they might be able to keep track with the movements of - of police.
SANCHEZ: Hala, that is absolutely right. This is a pretty rural area. So, there isn't really much cell service here. A lot of the cabins that
are here are meant for hunters and skiers that come in the winter time. Now it's summer time. So a lot of them are empty, and they have a - a
radio devices inside to communicate, because cell service is so bad.
And investigators are scared that the men could potentially listening to sensitive information that's being passed along law enforcement. So
they're being very careful not to say anything that might give away their position and their course in the investigation.
GORANI: Boris Sanchez in Owls Head in New York State. Thanks very much with latest there on this manhunt in New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Later tonight, a dog meat festival in China draws international condemnation. We'll tell you about an annual tradition and the strong
reaction that is stirring among animal lovers worldwide.
Also, these Japanese clubbers are clearly having a great time. And soon it will be legal. We'll tell you about a new law which is pretty late to the
party, after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:57:08] GORANI: Now, many of you will find our next story disturbing. It's about a controversial festival underway right now in Yulin, China. It
celebrates the eating of dogs. CNNs Anna Coren has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNA COREN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: At a market in Yulin in southern China, a woman hacks away at chunks of meat on a table (ph). Our
cameraman moves in closer to find a pile of dead dogs (INAUDIBLE) a blowtorch lying on the ground.
Not pleased with the media attention, the locals lash out and compete (ph) to show their hostility.
For these residents, killing dogs and filling (ph) the meat is a way of life that's celebrated annually at the Yulin dog meat festival. And this
year it's as popular as ever.
UNIDENTIFIED RESTAURANT OWNER (through translator): Eating dog meat is the same as eating chicken or beef says this restaurant owner. We've had to
kill more dogs because more people have come. We sell what people want.
While consuming dog meat is common across all of China, in some provinces it is considered a delicacy. And though the Yulin government has distanced
itself from the festival, it hasn't stopped customers from arriving in droves.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Eating dog is good for your health. It's better than eating pork, says this customer. Dog lovers go
ahead and love your dogs. But you can't stop us from eating dogs.
COREN: But some people are desperately trying. Animal activist like Yang Xiaoyun want to put a stop to what they say is a cruel event. The 65-year-
old spent more than a thousand dollars to save the lives of hundred dogs. But, as she well knows, that's a drop in the ocean.
YANG XIAOYUN, CHINESE ANIMAL ACTIVIST (through translator): At the moment, we don't have the ability to change peoples' habits. It's the government's
responsibility, isn't it? If the government had animal protection laws, the people would change. But there's no way the few of us who come here
every year to buy dogs can change people's habits.
COREN: Joining the fight to save man's best friend is British comedian, Ricky Gervais, who's been promoting the international campaign to stop the
festival, which has received nearly four million signatures. It's misleading to call Yulin a dog meat festival. It should be called a dog
torture festival because that's what it is.
And with these images of dogs crammed into cages awaiting a gruesome fate, broadcasts around the world many hope the days of the Yulin dog meat
festival are numbered.
Anna Coren, CNN, Hong Kong.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Stay with us. We'll have a lot more after a quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:52:04] GORANI: Well, I wasn't aware of this. Dancing past midnight in Japanese clubs has actually been outlawed since 1948. However, law makers
have just voted to lift the ban allowing club goers to continue busting their best news (ph) well into the night legally. Will Ripley joins the
party.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: In the non-stop scramble of Tokyo's Shibuya crossing, people don't think twice about dancing in the streets.
But late-night dancing in clubs has been outlawed in Japan for almost 70 years.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's crazy. It don't make any sense. It's a dance club.
CINDERELLA (ph): Oh my goodness.
RIPLEY: Like the classic fairytale, Cinderella, -
CINDERELLA (ph): It's midnight.
RIPLEY: - dancing past a certain hour has long been risky in Japan. Bars in night clubs even put up these signs trying to avoid problems with police
who call dance clubs magnets for drugs, violence and sex crimes.
For years, Japanese dance clubs have been forced to go underground. That's because of a law dating back to 1948 that forbids dancing in bars, clubs -
pretty much any public venue after midnight or one a.m. What that means is everything you're seeing in this room right now is technically illegal.
Japanese lawmakers voted last week to relax the dancing ban - a law going back to the American occupation after World War II when dance halls were
often a front for prostitution. Police looked the other way for decades allowing Japan's dance scene to thrive.
But high-profile drug cases and a deadly brawl about five years ago led to a surge of arrests from club raids like this one in 2013.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): It's wrong, she says. We need to dance.
RIPLEY: The new law says clubs can't be too dark, an attempt to discourage crime. And until changes take effect next year, after-hours' dancing like
this is still against the law.
Do you ever worry about the police coming here and arresting people?
DAISO MORATA, CLUB OWNER (through translator): Of course. I worry about it every day. I've been worrying for 30 years, says Tokyo club owner Daiso
Morata.
RIPLEY: He says he spent 21 days in jail for violating Japan's dancing ban. Morata is part of a movement demanding change. One hundred fifty-
thousand people signed a petition to lawmakers. Now the artists and D.J.s will be able to work safely, he says.
More great artists will be able to come here. He says Japan's war on dance is finally over. The victory dance will keep going long after the clock
strikes midnight.
Will Ripley, CNN, Tokyo.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Finally, tonight, do you think you've got guts? Take a look at this video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: The pilot of an ultralight aircraft uploaded this to YouTube. Check out the top right corner. What is that? Wait, it's a cat. It's a
cat clinging with all of its nine lives to the wing of the airplane. Oh, and then the pilot notices that there's a cat clinging, and it stays pretty
calm about it all. And his copilot or his passenger there seems to be having quite a chuckle.
But look at this poor little cat. Fortunately, we can confirm that it survived. Its hair was parted in an interesting way when the plane finally
landed. And it lives on as mascot for the pilot's (ph) flying club. I wouldn't try anything dangerous after this one, little cat.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
This has been THE WORLD RIGHT NOW. Thanks for watching. I'm Hala Gorani.
Up next we'll go to our colleagues at CNN USA for coverage of the South Carolina leaders' press conference. They're expected to call for the
confederate flag to be removed from the state house grounds following last week's shooting at the Emmanuel AME church in Charleston.
END
