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Dr. Drew

Race in America: Pres. Obama Uses the N Word; Symbolism of the Confederate Flag. Aired 9-10p ET

Aired June 23, 2015 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DREW PINSKY, DRDREW HOST: We are continuing the conversation about race in America. The president of the United States used the N word.

And CNN`s Don Lemon will join us in a moment to discuss his used of the term.

But first, I want you to watch this, but it`s a warning as well. I`m going to give you warning this thus contain language that many do consider

offensive. Here we go.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLOOM: We have to call this what it is. It is a racist killing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The investigators are looking into a 2000-word racist manifesto on a website registered to the suspect.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have no skinheads, no real KKK, no one doing anything but talking on the internet.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was just saying he want to segregation. He wanted to raise (ph) for.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our country is a racist country, that`s the problem.

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Does this offend you? It`s a confederate flag. Is it a symbol of southern pride? Or is it a symbol of hate?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Critic say the president using the N-word in this interview it gives the word even more power.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If it were a powerless word, we wouldn`t be having this conversation.

WRIGHT: The end word white people do not have permission to say it or have a discussion about it. Can I say on -- the air? I just did. OK. I`ll

probably got in trouble for.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That is the word that is used to definitize (ph) my father, my grandfather, my mother, my grandfather. So we were told never

to use that word.

LEMON: Does this offend you, this word. President Obama said it out loud in an interview and a lot of people are shocked.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Joining me to discuss, Crystal Wright, Political Commentator from conservativeblackchick.com, Areva Martin, attorney and legal analyst, Mike

Catherwood, my love line in KBC radio co-host, Loni Coombs former prosecutor. All three of you are perfect. (inaudible). Karamo Brown

social worker. And finally, Lisa Bloom, attorney, avvo.com and Don Lemon, CNN anchor.

Don, thank you for joining us.

People went nuts over you when you used of the N-word last night. What do you think why? Why are people so exercised over this?

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: I have no idea, Dr. Drew, because I did the same thing two years ago, almost at the very day. I had a special on CNN called

the N-word. I held the cards that said the N-word and that said the word cracker and I said, "Which one is more offensive?" And I did it several

times on CNN. There was no reaction.

As a matter of fact, people -- the people who did react commended me for tackling this subject that they thought that needed to be tackled. It`s

interesting now that two years later the same exact thing. People are up in arms.

I don`t advocate the use the N-word, at least not gratuitously, at least not in songs, at least not people just saying it willy-nilly.

I thought the way the president said it in context was completely fine.

I was trying to make a point, "Here is the word. Let`s have a conversation and a discussion about it."

I don`t -- Frankly, I don`t know what the big deal is. The president said it. I didn`t -- I just held up the sign and everyone went nuts.

PINSKY: And Areva, he makes a good point that the president said it. He talked about the long shadow cast fire (ph) history. It was totally

appropriately. Don was appropriate. And yet, people used it in song and then social conversation all the time, nobody freaks out about that.

AREVA MARTIN, ATTORNEY, LEGAL ANALYST: Well, we have to be clear, Dr. Drew. The word has so much history to it, so much negative history. So

it`s associated with, you know, calling African-Americans names that, you know, bring up all the history of slavery.

PINSKY: You flipped out last night when Crystal viewed the word.

MARTIN: I do, because I thought it was gratuitously used of it. When President Obama.

PINSKY: Crystal was explaining us. Hang on.

MARTIN: .that was different.

PINSKY: It was gratuitously.

CRYSTAL WRIGHT, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, BLACKCHICK.COM: It was gratuitous because Areva she wouldn`t let me finish my context and we had to go to

commercial.

PINSKY: Well that was my fault.

WRIGHT: Well, I was saying it in the same way Don was saying it. What I was saying is certain people have permission to say it and certain people

don`t. Black people can call each other in this -- in that. Don has bravely tackled this topic, and I agree with him.

And I think the fact that we can`t say and it`s off limits means we`re not going to have an honest discussion about race.

PINSKY: But Karamo you don`t want this -- that in my mouth.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: But if you were to use it and talk about history to try to diffuse its meaning, it`ll be all right, yeah?

KARAMO BROWN, SOCIAL WORKER: That`s the problem. I wouldn`t use it to diffuse history.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Do you have a problem with Don?

BROWN: I actually didn`t have problem with that.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: How about the problem?

BROWN: Don -- I really -- you know, to say that two years ago, you talked about this on your show and then people didn`t have an issue. There was

many people that had an issue. I can tell you personally, being on the ground floor, many African-Americans have an issue with that. And we still

have an issue with it.

It`s socially irresponsible. I do not want any African-American, especially African-American males, saying that word and saying that

journalist should be able to use.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: You`re saying the president was irresponsible in the way he used it?

BROWN: No. And so, what you have applied is that you don`t want journalists to be able to use that.

LEMON: So I was discussing that how the president used it. I held up a sign. I didn`t say it.

BROWN: And then.

LEMON: So how was.

BROWN: But you said it before. I`ve watched you on different newscast. And you said it before. It`s socially irresponsible. What you`re doing.

PINSKY: What does that mean social irresponsible?

BROWN: Well, how can you say that?

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: .used of that word.

LEMON: Wait a minute. Hang on. I get slammed for saying you shouldn`t use that word. People call me sell-out and I say I don`t like the use of

that word.

I`m not using that word gratuitously to call anyone. I`m a journalist. I`m using it as part of the historical record. So I think people need to

make up their minds. Are they upset that I don`t advocate the use of it? Are they upset because, as a journalist, I`m supposed to use the word

because that`s what journalist do?

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Don, what I would like to know there is a word that is used for Jewish people that starts with a K. Would you advocate for using that word

on this?

PINSKY: Listen Kramo.

BROWN: Because I want to know.

PINSKY: There is a word for women, Lisa, that start -- the C word that Mike and I were talking today. We said if the (ph) president use that word

we will freak out.

BROWN: I also -- we be freak out.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: If someone use that word, if the president use that word, and someone use that word to call someone that and it was relevant to history,

then I would say the word if it`s relevant.

BROWN: So you would say the K word about Jewish individuals?

LEMON: Absolutely, 100 percent.

LISA BLOOM, ATTORNEY: He`s not a member of that group. Listen, I think we all have to talk about context. As a melanin deprived person, I`m not

going to be using the N-word in any context. It`s not appropriate. It`s a very powerful word that causes pain to my friends and neighbors. But if

women want to use the C word to have a discussion about how were to oppress those women in the same context and it`s appropriate, you know, I`m OK with

that. As a Jewish person, we talked about this life on my group. Every group does that.

WRIGHT: But why does everything has to boil down to the melanin of our skin, to our gender, to our politics? Why is Don said -- I think you said

this when you were on Glenn Beck show, Don. This political correctness disenfranchises everybody in America for having an honest discussion about

race, about black people. Just because you`re not black, I don`t want to shut you out of that conversation. I`m not Jewish, but I feel like if

somebody is going to denigrate a Jewish friend of mine, you bet I`m going to come to that word.

MARTIN: Well, look -- and you know.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: When you think -- think about in this country, who do you hear using that word the most? I know that racist used it. I know that people

use it. But where do you hear that word the most?

(CROSSTALK)

MARTIN: Can I jump in back because I want to say, you know, I don`t agree with Crystal often but I agree with her on this point. We can`t have an

honest discussion about race if we can`t use the word that invokes so much hatred.

(CROSSTALK)

MARTIN: And Lisa just because you`re a white woman, it doesn`t mean you can`t use the word. President Obama Columbia Harvard training. He knew.

When he used that word, we have to trust that he was using it to make a point about racist.

(CROSSTALK)

MARTIN: He wasn`t denigrating anyone.

MIKE CATHERWOOD, DOCTOR DREW LOVELINE CO-HOST: It`s fair to point out, not only the context when the president was using it, but what he actually said

is -- it was a profound statement. It`s not solving racial issues in this country. It has nothing to do with whether or not you use proper

terminology when you`re in his company. It`s about how we feel in total, how we analyze each other that live around us regardless if we`re melanin

deprived or not. And I look at everyone in this can say any word they want.

And my question is -- and of course, I mean we have the right as Americans to say what we want. And my question is just like who`s really stepping up

to the plate to defend the need to say those words?

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Well, I am. I am setting the plate to say you need to say those words. I, as a journalist, with my right hand up, I need to say that word

because I am.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: .Jewish doctorate I am sworn to tell you the truth and to be honest and not to sanitize words. We don`t do the racial discussion any good as

if we keep sanitizing it.

PINSKY: Right.

LEMON: You should hear the impact of that word. And I think we should stop being -- trying to be finding reasons to be outrage. There was

nothing to be outrage about what I say -- what I did last night. In fact, people should have encourage me to do that because it`s part of the

conversation that you saw, front and center, and black and white, the impact of that word. So if you`re going to say it and you`re going to used

it, then you should make damn sure that you know what you`re doing.

CATHERWOOD: But Mr. Lemon reporting, as a journalist, which you are and you obviously, not only have the right to, you`re obligated to report on

things with the utmost level of truth and honesty, and I get that. But you have to understand the -- how -- what you do when you`re reporting and when

you`re in a professional capacity is greatly different than when you`re just in general conversation in your personal life.

(CROSSTALK)

CATHERWOOD: I find it hard to believe that you have outside of your journalisting capacity have much desire to say any of the words.

PINSKY: I got to go now. I got to go now.

LEMON: I don`t. I don`t use that word. I don`t like to.

PINSKY: But Don.

LEMON: I don`t use that word. I`m talking about people saying, you know, white kids, black kids, Hispanic kids all kinds of kids among the subway, I

mean the street, they`re calling each other that word all of the time and they don`t understand. They don`t understand the impact of the word.

Those people are not journalist on television. They`re not united in the (ph) president of the United States. They`re not.

PINSKY: And Don.

LEMON: .not using any context to further a discussion.

PINSKY: And there is also a bigger conversation, I guess, what Crystal is referencing you had with Glenn Beck today which is this political

correctness that we are under this -- really tyranny of right now. Then I believed it`s what`s you`re talking about, yes?

And we, you know, we were talking -- yeah we were talking an agreement before the show about a Frenchman that came here in 18:22 named Alexis

Detokfil (ph) and he look around and said, "This is the only country in the world that`s given explicit right of free speech where it can`t be

practice," because if you say something unpopular on the town square, you get crushed. And as a matter of fact, the town square is now on our phone

in our pocket acting out on people every day and that`s why there`s such a spin around the political.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Yes. Well -- But it`s dangerous now for people behaving like a mom. Don has to defend himself. But I got to go on break.

Now, caught on tape, I`ll show you the very moment when the killer of nine people himself was take into custody back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lady called a friend of mine and said that she was behind the color matching of the description of the Charleston Killer.

White male, early 20`s with a bowl haircut.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A new video showing the arrest of Dylann Roof in Carolina about 14 hours after he open fire inside the history black church.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The suspect was stop by officers at 10:44 A.M. The officers identified the only occupant of the vehicle, Mr. Dylann Roof. Mr.

Roof is taken into custody in 10:49 A.M.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: The killer is arrest caught on tape a new (inaudible) cam video. And 911 calls reveal the exact moment the man who had murdered nine people

in a Charleston church was taken into custody.

I`m back with Crystal, Areva, Mike, Don, Loni, Karamo and Lisa and Don.

And Don you wanted to make a point to social media.

LEMON: Well, I want to make a point especially about social media, because -- listen, media companies cut off the comments and no longer put comments

because they`re no longer relevant.

Social media is best if you look at places like Twitter, we had to stop giving in so much credence. Basically, it is a place for -- where people

who can play the dozens (ph) just like you`re mom it is, you`re this. It`s where people want up each other. And people don`t -- shouldn`t really take

what is much credence in Twitter as I do. I really don`t give a crap about what Twitter says about me.

Twitter says last -- when I said we shouldn`t be using the N word, they said, "Oh my gosh you`re still out. That`s our word. We should be able to

use it as much as possible." I hold up a sign with the N-word and people say, "What`s wrong with you? Why are you using that word? Make up your

mind. Make up your mind."

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: I think we should stop putting so. It`s a social media mob.

PINSKY: We can`t. It is a mob. And mob is the lowest phenomenon of what humans have offered. But you tell, Don, you can`t have a intellectual

debate with 140 characters, I`m shocked.

But Loni you had -- you make a comment there a lot.

LONI COOMBS: I think what might be a little bit confusing, Don, is that we`re talking about needing to have this discussion and being able to talk

about express how painful it is, how we don`t want to use it. And yet, it appears what you`re saying is we need to use it in that discussion

I don`t understand what`s wrong with just using the N-word in that discussion. For example.

PINSKY: Rather than saying it.

COOMBS: .yes. So when President Obama used the word, I think everyone missed the rest of his message which was so important because they got

stuck up on what you said.

PINSKY: Loni, let me play it. Let me play (inaudible) what President Obama said on (inaudible) is a great guy. He`s probably the best

(inaudible)

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Best interviewer (inaudible) Howard Stern. But listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: And it`s not just a matter of it not being polite to say nigger in public. That`s not the measure of whether racism still exists or not.

It`s not just a matter of overt discrimination. We have -- Societies don`t overnight completely erase everything that happened 200 to 300 years prior.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: So the impact in that statement, Loni, is implicit racism, I know what that is, sociology and history and the cast of history.

COOMBS: Yeah.

PINSKY: Very profound.

COOMBS: Extremely important. And here is the president saying this (inaudible) and then put it out there, and yet people don`t hear the rest

of the quote because everybody is talking about, "Hey, he actually use that word." And what does that mean when the president threw that word? He

just said the N-word people would have gotten to the rest of his state mode I think was so important.

PINSKY: Areva know (ph)

MARTIN: No. I don`t agree with that at all. I think using the word is important because it allows us to talk about the history of the word. We

can`t ignore that history. And by using the N-word and not the whole word, that`s exactly what we`re doing. And I don`t think people who don`t want

to have the racial discussions whether the president used that word or not, they were not going to have that discussion.

So you can use that as an excuse for those people who are unwilling to talk about.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Areva, to your point -- to your point, Areva. The president knowing what he is doing. If the president had just said the N-word, we

will not be here.

MARTIN: Thank you.

PINSKY: But I tell you what, here is my one concern and Lisa I`ll direct this to you is that one of the problems with having conversations about

race is fear. People are fearful about navigating and stepping on land mines. And that word is the thing that fearful at most.

So most people with who are melanin deprived are now put that in their mouth because they don`t want to evoke any of that. And I`m not afraid of

this conversation about racist, but I`m not going to use that word.

BLOOM: Well, a couple of things. So first of all, I wrote a book Suspicious Nation that talks a lot about race and implicit racial bias.

And I used the word of that book when I`m quoting how people talk about Trayvon Martin.

And nobody did -- he had hard time because it was to show how awful that was.

I have no problem with Don Lemon or the president or any African-American person using that word to make whatever points they want to make. I don`t

think it`s for me to second guess that.

But I will say, I think, it`s a little bit ironic that some of us, and Don, you know what, I love you, but some of us just say, "I want to start a

conversation," then say, "All of these people on Twitter, I don`t want to hear what they have to say." You know, most people never get a chance to

be on T.V. Never get a chance to.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: And maybe I should explain that. I`m talking about the people who, you know, they used it to do means and all of that stuff. But people who

are having legitimate conversations I will answer them if they do it in a responsible and a respectful way. It`s not what I mean. And thank you. I

would like to clarify that. I don`t mean that I don`t want to stop anyone.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: .that`s all.

WRIGHT: Don is right about Twitter. Twitter is about -- I could count how many times Don is call sell-out and Uncle Tom (ph) as am I on Twitter for

not fitty into this black mode that people think we`re supposed to fit into.

Don is gay. I`m a black conservative. I think that has a lot to do with it.

But back to the N-word, I think it`s a really sad state of affairs that we`ve spent two shows, back to back, talking about the N-word and we can`t

say it, but we can say the word bitch on air, which I find really disgusting, and I think that`s really the prom.

I mean are we going to really spend all of this -- I mean, Don, you`re going to do your show tonight. You`re going to talk about the N-word. I

mean it`s really pathetic in the year 2015 that people can fly a confederate flag and I have to say N-word on national television.

PINSKY: Well that`s the flag.

BROWN: You`re right about saying the N-word on national T.V. because that word causes a lot of pain.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: That word causes so much pain. As I hear everyone is so casually talking about we should be saying that that hurts a lot of people.

WRIGHT: The president wasn`t casual on that.

BROWN: I`m telling you it hurts.

LEMON: Mr. Brown can I ask you a question.

PINSKY: Don, go ahead.

BROWN: Sure.

PINSKY: Yeah.

LEMON: Can I ask you a question? Well, you as -- do you get up as upset when you hear people saying it in public? Do you get as upset when you

hear in certain music?

BROWN: Yes, I do. Yes, I do.

LEMON: OK.

BROWN: And I`m one of those people who`ve stepped out and I try to discuss this in this sense of having children and telling my children.

LEMON: I do the same thing. You should not be mad at me.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: What I am saying to you is that I do not want to encouraging other journalist to start saying that because that`s a slippery slope. We

already seen how individuals talk about young African-American man on the news. They call them gangsters, mobsters, everything else.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: And now you`re giving them a license to say the N-word.

LEMON: Let me make a point to you Mr. Brown.

BROWN: I`m not just the one on Fox News, all of a sudden, saying that.

WRIGHT: Don`t bring Fox.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Don, Don, Don.

LEMON: Let me make a point.

PINSKY: Don.

LEMON: Let me make a point. So -- and let`s just say the shooter walked into the church and he said, "I`m going to kill some N-words," right? Now,

do you want a journalist going to guy want to be sure he say, "I`m going to kill some N words?" that`s completely sanitizing it. And note that guy

walked in to the church and he killed nine people and he said, "I`m going to kill some (inaudible)." I`m not going to say it on air because so you

guys you`re going to get offended. But you need to hear the impact of the word and the impact of the.

BROWN: But we know.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: .journalist you should. No you don`t and not until you hear it.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Let me finish and you guys can talk the rest of the thing. That`s why we`re so upset now because in this particular medium, especially with

the mainstream medium, whatever you want to call it, we have sanitized that word so much. We have N worded ourselves to death so much that when we

actually hear the word, it is completely shocking to us.

WRIGHT: And should be.

LEMON: That should not be so shocking.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: .not be so shocking coming from a journalist. You should be able to hear the impact of the word.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Yes. It`s so funny that we`re talking about President Obama saying that word. What about the million of times people have called him that

word that this is never been discussion. It gets on my nerves that, all of a sudden, now we want to have this discussion.

PINSKY: OK. Don, thank you for joining us my friend. Thank you for bringing the courage (ph) (inaudible)

LEMON: Thank you guys. I enjoyed it.

PINSKY: We really appreciate it. We are going to guys -- you said we`re going to keep talking here. We`re going to send you out into your show.

Thank you so much.

And later, Caucasian Heritage Night, I`ll tell you what that is. We`re going to keep this going after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WRIGHT: We can have an honest discussion about race, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Let`s go on the assumption that racism is in all of us.

WRIGHT: It is in all of us.

(CROSSTALK)

MARTIN: Prejudice is different from racism. Racism is domination of a race.

PINSKY: I agree.

MARTIN: .have a race.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I do believe that black people can be racist. I do believe that. I think all of us are a little bit racist.

WRIGHT: Yeah. Black people were the worst offenders in wanting to -- they say wanting and do another. If I was a white person sitting on a stage, I

mean you guys already attacked me because I`m a black woman and I have their death suits (ph) to speak the truth.

PINSKY: I feel like a lot of it -- a lot of people were tip toeing around, fearful of evoking anger. And I see that the resilience of forgiveness and

willingness to talk about these things. Isn`t the time we had this conversation?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Indeed. And last night, Felicia, twitted me about that show. That was last night show. Here it is. "Dr. Drew, there is too much

division within the black community and this episode proved it. Change starts from within."

I`m back with Crystal, Areva, Mike, Loni, Karamo and Lisa. Ladies a house divided cannot stand.

MARTIN: How dare someone say there is too much division in the African- American community as if we have to be a monolithic community? Look, African-Americans are all over this country. We have different opinions,

we have different views, and we have the right to be different.

PINSKY: But as it pertains -- and Karamo, please.

BROWN: I disagree. I actually -- I agree. I think that what the twit the fact that.

PINSKY: I was coming out right here.

BROWN: I`m going to say right now but in the sense of -- because I respect both of you and even Don like that`s why I didn`t want to get irate. But I

do hate the fact especially when it come to race that we pit African- Americans on television like animals, it`s -- I feel like sometimes we go back to 1883 and we have to attack each other to get our point across.

We have all been damaged by the history of this country. And we need to be supporting each other to get.

PINSKY: What does that mean? What do you mean by that? Dig into that a little bit.

BROWN: Sure. I mean we`re -- I mean we`re hurt. There`s internalize racism. I mean look at the way.

PINSKY: You`re hurt in what way?

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: I`m hurt. Our friends have been hurt.

PINSKY: So is it.

BROWN: This country has hurt us and you can`t erase. Like our president said, you can`t erase 300 years of history. And all of a sudden now,

because the flag is down or because we`re not saying this word or we`re not doing this and erase all of that, we`re still in a place where this is

hard. And I don`t want to attack you. I don`t want to attack you. But what I do want people to understand is that it does hurt me sometimes when

I see us as black people on T.V. addressed each other.

PINSKY: Crystal, do you understand what he is saying when he says it hurt?

WRIGHT: No, I have no idea what he`s saying.

PINSKY: Wait. Hold on a second. Areva do you know?

WRIGHT: But wait. I`m going to go back to.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: I`ll go back to you but hang out.

MARTIN: I understand what he says.

PINSKY: OK. Hold on.

MARTIN: Yes.

PINSKY: So when you get attacked for being conservative, do you think some of it is that you`re not relating to that he`s into that pain?

WRIGHT: No, because I relate to the way I was raised. And I don`t relate to what put pain. We need to define.

PINSKY: Well that may be.

WRIGHT: .my pain is not his pain.

But when you said, I disagree with you that you think that television is putting blacks on TV, pitting each other against each other like animals.

It goes back to this notion, your premise is that all black people are alike, all black people come from, as you said, a monolith.

You started your show saying, the tweet - you worked off the assumption, you`re white, you don`t expect Mike to share the same opinion

with you. That`s a given that white people can have different opinions. What bothers me, and I see it relentless, I see it with Don Lemon, when he

was out in Charleston, South Carolina, a black person was behind him dancing saying, "Sellout, sellout, sellout." What the heck was that?

(CROSSTALK)

CRYSTAL: I mean, no let me go back. And my pain - you know, you talk pain. You know, I wasn`t raised - my parents grew up in the - during

segregation. They didn`t raise me to say, "Oh, Crystal, woe is you." Remember the pain of slavery! No, they said, "Crystal, you can grow up and

be whatever you want."

And when I came home and somebody had called me the n-word, my mom sat me down and said, you don`t use that word. So we - I come from a place

of empowerment, not pain.

(CAROMO): So can I tell you the same thing? As that, first of all, I am a gay man living this. So when we talk about what Don Lemon and what

you`re going through as a conservative, I feel that daily on my Twitter and when I walk through the world. Also, my parents are Jamaican. I`m first

generation American so I was raised in a household that said to me, to be empowered. Do not let people go down. But I`m not in a place where I do

not understand the history of this country, and the words, the things that have happened. I still live in a place where my kids are fearful, my sons

are fearful of the cops. I live in a place where I don`t feel that my vote is valued, my words are valued, and that`s for a lot of people. And that`s

what I mean by that pain. I`m not trying to oversimplify it.

AREVA MARTIN, ATTORNEY, LEGAL ANALYST: Since we`re all talking about who we are, I`m a black girl from North St. Louis, from the projects. I

went to Harvard Law School. So I feel the pain you`re talking about, but I respect that your opinion can be different than my opinion, that can be

different from Crystal`s opinion. And I think it`s healthy for the African-American community, like all communities, to have different

opinions and to be able to voice those opinions.

LISA BLOOM, ATTORNEY: And to talk about unity, Dr. Drew, shouldn`t we be talking about unity of all Americans to fight racism, not just unity

among African-Americans, who, of course, should have different points of view.

(CROSSTALK)

DR. DREW: Listen Lisa.

LISA: This should not be left just to the African-American community.

DR. DREW: 100 percent. But it would be nice if it started there and they.

LISA: Why?

(CROSSTALK)

DR. Because something for us to follow.

MIKE CATHERWOOD, DR. DREW`S LOVELINE CO-HOST: I agree with drew. Let me tell you why because I have a very interesting perspective on it,

being that I`m Latino and white and I can see things from both - from two outsiders` point of view. And I see that the African-American community,

out of all minorities in America, is working the hardest to advance themselves, by having this level of discourse. By having an elevated

discourse, where two people vehemently disagree, are from two different perspectives, but are both working at the same time to advance the cause.

CRYSTAL: For example, the word "African-American," not to cut you off, Michael. I don`t - my mom, after the show last night, she said, "Will

you please get everybody straight on the show?" That people like to be called black American. That, in and of itself, it really - when you say

that, it makes my blood curdle.

(CROSSTALK)

CRYSTAL: I am a black American. I never opted into the Jesse Jackson as being called an African-American. It was never put on a ballot.

And I really resent when people call me an African-American. I`m not from Africa directly. My parents - my grandfather was from Saint Kitts. I am a

black American. I mean, what do you call yourself? I don`t hear you calling yourself a Caucasian American. I mean, it`s like, let`s - even on

that we don`t agree, which is cruel, right?

(CROSSTALK)

DR. DREW: How about you, how about you Loni? Loni, you`re also a black American, right? You`re black.

LONI COOMBS: I`m half-Filipino.

DR. DREW: Filipino.

(CROSSTALK)

DR. DREW: You have no black and African-American descendants.

LONI: Well I grew up in North Carolina until I was 5.

DR. DREW: Please don`t confuse.

(CROSSTALK)

LONI: But it`s interesting because everybody assume - thank you. People assume certain things, just based from the color of your skin. They

don`t know the history. I grew up in North Carolina for the first five years of my life. There was segregation going on. There was the white

fountain and the black - I was brown. I didn`t know where I fit in.

DR. DREW: What did you do then?

LONI: It was very upsetting and very nerve-racking. My older brother and sister are Caucasian. We`re all adopted. They went to white

school. I was afraid to walk into that school because I was brown. My mom taught at the all-black school.

So even though I was 5, and my parents didn`t understand I was having this experience, because they are pretty color blind, they didn`t know that

I was going through all of this. But to talk about feeling, you know, the kind of all of the different feelings going on. And then we moved to

California and there was more diversity going on. But, you know, it`s very hard for people to say my experience is everybody, I`m the white

experience, I`m the black experience. And to think everybody has their own individual experience. And that`s why everybody needs to be discussed.

CRYSTAL: And Loni makes a good point. People - look, Dr. Drew thought you were part black. You could be, right? I`m probably.

MIKE: Have you seen her ass?

DR. DREW: Oh stop it.

(CROSSTALK)

CRYSTAL: No, we make assumptions.

LISA: No Mike. I mean, we haven`t seen your package, and we don`t want to.

(CROSSTALK)

CRYSTAL: But look, what I`ve stated - no, we make assumptions based on our color of our skin. Like, people look at you, as you said, they make

an assumption that you may be a straight black man, right? They make us - they look at me and they say - people think I`m Latino and whatever. I`ve

had assumptions, you know, made about me.

(CROSSTALK)

CRYSTAL: Or you`re black. My neighbor said, when Obama got elected, "Oh, isn`t he great?" I`m sure you`re going to, you know, I`m black, so I

must be a liberal, right?

DR. DREW: Not. Later, listen, we`ve got to continue this conversation about really what it is to be American today. I feel like

we`re really getting into a bigger conversation. Also, as I said, Caucasian Heritage Night is something trending on Twitter. I`ll explain

that after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DR. DREW: The weakest amongst us are expressing the darkest features of our culture.

[11:40:00]

AREVA: Mental health, and you bringing that up, when it`s only - it only seems to apply to white people, as we were saying.

DR. DREW: I don`t say that.

CRYSTAL: White people who are doing the killings in Columbine and Aurora, they are mentally ill. It`s different than thugs in inner cities

like Baltimore, who went out thugging and rioting.

AREVA: You go in that church and say "I`m killing these nine people because my dad walked out the door." He said he`s killing these nine

people.

(CROSSTALK)

AREVA: But he said he`s killing the nine people because they`re black.

DR. DREW: We`ve been talking around the issue of trauma here. Trauma is what we`re talking about. A shadow, a horrible piece of our

history. We can`t deny it. And Scott on Facebook says, "Stop giving these murderers the BS excuse of being mentally ill. I have actual mental

illness, and the stigma and shame gets worse when these killers get labeled with the diagnosis. Evil is not an illness."

Back with Crystal, Areva, Mike, Loni, Caromo, and Lisa. Lisa, my issue is, there are that - there`s several things. I mean, yes I don`t

want to cast further stigmatization on people with bona fide mental illness. I want to understand how evil happens. And I understand

character and brain function has to figure into that.

I don`t want to give them an excuse on any level. But one thing I`m concerned about is why the gun laws in this country are not still applied?

And why people, who shouldn`t be getting guns, forget our right to carry guns, is why to people who should not have guns get guns?

LISA: Why we allow mentally ill people to get guns in this country. Why we allow crazy extremists like Dylann Roof to get guns. Because we

have a crazy fixation and love of guns in this country that no other developed country has.

And we have a tolerance for constant mass shootings. For shootings, 80 people a day who are killed in America. That just doesn`t happen in

other developed countries that have sensible gun laws. But we tolerate it. And you know, I almost sometimes think like there`s something exciting

about it, that we have these exciting stories. And then we all talk about it. Then we all say, "Oh we should do something." And then we go back to

sleep and then two weeks later, you know, God knows what`s the next one is going to be. It`s horrific. I mean, you have to tell me, Dr. Drew, how do

we tolerate it? What are we getting out of it that we allow this to continue?

DR. DREW: It`s gross if we`re getting off on it in some way, it is. I think your theory may have some validity to it. But I think it`s more a

sense of disbelief or helplessness. It`s like they really don`t feel they can do anything about it. And I understand why - if I understand right,

there are gun laws that should prevent these things from happening already. Maybe we are too flooded with these things - for giving up anybody?

(CROSSTALK)

MIKE: And I think it`s different by state too. I think what we as Californians know of gun laws is vastly different than other states, as

well. Well, I think there is a like a real, kind of, maybe even subconsciously, Americans have a real, kind of frontier cowboy idea about.

(CROSSTALK)

DR. DREW: Yes, it`s gross. I think a lot of stuff.

LISA: And love of violence. We love violence. We love it in TV, we love it in movies, we love it in video games. And we tolerate, you know,

bang, bang, you`re dead.

DR. DREW: Yes but with Sandy Hook, I feel like we really crossed the line. And this is more of that.

LISA: But then what changed?

(CROSSTALK)

DR. DREW: No, we`re in the same boat.

LONI: And then that is going to be the dividing factor. It didn`t. We pulled back again and nobody`s doing - and I think a lot of it has to do

with people who want to protect their right to bear arms and they`re afraid that if you try to take it away from anyone else, it`s going to affect

them.

DR. DREW: Well - and generally, the idea of individual rights supervening the rights of the groups, is really what`s an issue. We have

so many rights and privileges, that we can`t protect ourselves as a group from the individuals.

AREVA: I think you need to call it out Dr. Drew. What we`re talking about is a very powerful gun lobby that prevents congress from enacting

widespread gun legislation.

DR. DREW: Crystal says.

AREVA: There are lots of people in this country that want to see gun legislation, but it can`t get done through this congress. That`s what

Obama said when he talked about this horrific killing in Charleston.

DR. DREW: Crystal? No?

CRYSTAL: Let`s not misrepresent the right to have, bear arms, the second amendment. What bothers me about this conversation is that mad

people, like Dylann Roof are going to get guns. They`re going to do bad things, just like we saw in Paris with Charlie Hebdo. OK? We`ve seen it

in.

(CROSSTALK)

CRYSTAL: Let me finish. You talked about, you know, Baltimore and Chicago have - they rank in the top five for homicide rates nationwide, OK?

They have the strictest gun laws, Maryland and Illinois. You know, why are we talking about - in Chicago, there are shootings every day, of black kids

killing other black kids, primarily young black men, right?

These two states have the strictest gun laws in the nation. They have the highest homicide rates. On Memorial Day weekend, Baltimore and

Chicago were plagued by the most homicides they`ve had in like 15 years, OK? None of us talked about that. We take this ISIS.

(CROSSTALK)

CRYSTAL: No, we don`t. We`re not talking about it on this show. We`re talking about, oh, it`s the gun laws. Like, we have background

checks. In South Carolina, South Carolina doesn`t have a high crime rate. They don`t have problems with homicides. So where do you say? What was

the reason that that happened?

LISA: First of all, the facts are just not accurate. And many people do talk about black on black crime. I talked about it in my book.

I also talk about white on white crime, as a white person.

CRYSTAL: But we`re talking about gun laws.

LISA: If I may finish. I`m far more likely to be victimized by a gun by another white person than by a black person. That`s something we

also don`t talk about. So this isn`t just all about this myth of the black criminal. The real problem is guns, and we know empirically from how other

countries do it so much better than us, we don`t have to guess, we don`t have to imagine because.

(CROSSTALK)

CRYSTAL: I just want you answer one question. I asked you about the strict gun laws in Maryland.

LISA: They`re not strict.

CRYSTAL: Oh, my God! They`re the strictest in the nation.

LISA: OK.

CRYSTAL: There`s not even gunshots in Chicago.

LISA: The strictest in the nation that has laxest gun laws in the world.

CRYSTAL: That is so not true. In Washington, DC, I can`t own a gun. I`m a young woman.

LISA: That`s not true.

CRYSTAL: Oh.

LISA: Have you read the heller?

CRYSTAL: Do you know how hard, do you know how hard it is to own a gun in Washington, DC even with the Supreme Court decision? You know.

(CROSSTALK)

MIKE: I`m not saying.

DR. DREW: Mike. Mike.

MIKE: I`m not saying this in a braggadocios fashion, but I have surrounded myself, unfortunately especially in my previous life, with

people who commit crimes with guns. And just like in Chicago and Baltimore, like Crystal was talking about, the overwhelming majority of

violent crimes committed with the firearms in this country, are committed by people who are doing it with illegally obtained guns.

CRYSTAL: Thank you.

LISA: Yes.

MIKE: So gun laws don`t often times - regardless of how strict or loose they are. And I`m not saying that we don`t have a gun obsession in

this country. We do. But I don`t know if the violence that is committed with gun laws is going to be solved by ratcheting down laws on, you know,

the guys who are going hunting on the weekends.

DR. DREW: I`ll tell you what, all of this stuff is improved if we improve ourselves, if we improve people. This sounds like an empty

platitude, but the fact is so much of what we`ve been talking about here is about how do you raise a certain kind of person, how do we heal certain

kinds of trauma, how do we gather together as a country, and that applies to gun laws as well.

We need to - and I think once - first of all, I hope, I appreciate this conversation, I really admire our group and hope we are a example of

how people can have these conversations. And we need, everybody needs to keep having this conversation out there in the world. But I`m wondering if

we can start to look at simple solutions, like, how do you create an employable person?

Young males who are unemployed are a problem. They`re a problem throughout the world; they`re really a problem in this country. And people

claim they want a job, they want a job, they want a job, but you can`t hire people that are unhirable. They can`t function in the workplace. We need

to really take a good look at that and get everybody properly educated. And again, as we said yesterday, the family systems. People that are

empathic and regulated emotionally, that`s about family. Very simple solutions and then keep this conversation going.

Next up, changing yours completely, looking inside a Walmart at a rampage after this. There it is.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:50:00]

DR. DREW: Time for quick fix, where my guests tell me what is trending on their Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram feeds. I`m back with

Crystal, Areva, Mike. And Mike is a first go.

MIKE: All right, this story came from Twitter, where people were tweeting their outrage with the outrage with the hashtag Caucasian Heritage

Night.

DR. DREW: Oh this is that filing.

(CROSSTALK)

MIKE: Caucasian heritage night. Like this tweet, "Celebrating Caucasian history. Stealing this country from Native Americans. The

Holocaust. Slavery." Well what it is is a professional minor league baseball team out in the Provo area, they`re called the Orom Owls, OK?

They`re out in Utah. They wanted to have a Caucasian Heritage Night on August 10th.

But what it actually is, it`s kind of a novelty thing. They wanted to have a white bread and mayo eating contests and.

(CROSSTALK)

DR. DREW: They having fun?

MIKE: Yes they are going to show clips of Seinfeld and Friends, and it`s actually kind of funny. So in the wake of the Charleston murders

though, they felt it might be too sensitive a time to do it.

But not everyone agreed with their decision to cancel the Caucasian Heritage Night. This fan was asked if he was opposed to it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MALE: Every other race has their night. But what - I don`t, not at all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DR. DREW: And he doesn`t look Caucasian.

MIKE: Nor does he look sober.

DR. DREW: Too soon, too soon.

MIKE: They probably have nights.

AREVA: Mine, a woman in Maryland hung these rainbow solar lights in her yard. She`s a widow, she`s a mom of four. And she says the lights

represent love and family unity. But but at least one neighbor disagrees and left her this nasty note.

"Your yard is becoming relentlessly gay. Myself and others in the neighborhood ask that you tone it down. This is a Christian area and there

are children. Keep it up and I will be forced to call the police on you. Your kind need to have respect for God."

The woman with the lights, though, is fighting back, Dr. Drew. She wants to make her home, quote, even more relentlessly gay. She set up a

GoFundMe account and guess what, she`s raised $42,000.

DR. DREW: Wow. And if I follow that reasoning, we should be shielding our children`s eyes from rainbows, because God knows that`s not

God`s will. Crystal, what have you got?

CRYSTAL: OK. So everybody knows Maya Rudolph, she was the former cast member on Saturday Night Live. She`s actually half black, I just got

to say this. She was on Late Night with Seth Meyers, also cast member of Saturday Night Live. And they got to joking about, you guessed it, Rachel

Dolezal. So you guessed it, Seth Meyers said, "OK, Maya, you`re here, can you do a little like Rachel? You know, reenact Rachel.

DR. DREW: Did you get to see it?

CRYSTAL: Yes, when she was asked, you know, "Are you black?" Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SETH MEYERS: So, is your father an African-American?

MAYA RUDOLPH: Wait. I don`t really understand the question.

SETH MEYERS: Do - are either of your parents black?

MAYA RUDOLPH: I don`t know - I mean.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DR. DREW: All right. Thank you guys. My quick fix is next. We`re back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DR. DREW: Time for my quick fix. I am so proud to bring you back to Walmart, where a bizarre behavior recently caught on tape and posted to

YouTube. A man poured milk on himself, yelled that he was on fire, ran through the store, naked except for shoes and socks and a

halloween mask. Police in Kentucky arrested both the streaker and his cameraman.

They both face now several charges, including indecent exposure. Police are still searching for the getaway driver, who was also an

accomplice in this. But apparently, they wanted to get famous and get some clicks on YouTube or something.

And Mike, we`ve talked about this. There`s actually a destination called - people, no. Not just people of Walmart, but Walmart videos.

There`s so many bizarre things that happen in Walmart.

MIKE: Yes, this guy is now going to host NBC Nightly News.

DR. DREW: But listen I - the people do get psychotic and say they`re on fire. Last time I saw that, that was from a postpartum psychosis. A

woman thought she was on fire all the time. If somebody`s doing that, don`t assume.

AREVA: She wasn`t taping herself.

DR. DREW: The point is yes, don`t assume it`s a joke, is what I`m saying. All right guys, great conversation today. Be sure to join us in

the after show on our Facebook page. We`re going to keep this conversation going. I want to thank you all for joining us, and of course, Stevie

Argus, you can watch us anytime. We will see you next time.

END