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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Discussion On What The Confederate Flag Means To People; Authorities Continue To Comb Area 20 Miles West Of New York Prison For Two Escaped Convicts; New Details Emerging About The D.C. Mansion Murder Mystery. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired June 23, 2015 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:08] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN HOST: I asked the congressman, when does your pride supersede other people's pain.

LEMON: Yeah it doesn't.

BANFIELD: And --

LEMON: There's win in there, it doesn't, it doesn't.

BANFIELD: Yeah.

LEMON: You can be proud of a number of things, if someone wants to walk around and say "You know, that I'm proud to be a descendant of a Nazi.

Well fine be proud of it because, you know, you can display a slots (ph) to go wherever you want. It doesn't mean that you can exhibit that type of behavior. So be proud.

BANFIELD: And you shouldn't probably wear this --

LEMON: And you shouldn't wear it, and you shouldn't hang it over a state capitol.

BANFIELD: So question for you, in a different stream being state pensive (ph) et cetera. But -- that he -- and it usually get to this because, you know, that the segment was going on long and it got contentious. But he made a good point in the pre-interviews that we did with him. And that is this, Jefferson owned flags, Thomas Jefferson owned flags, third president of the United States. And there is a monument of him in the capital city of the United States.

No one ever asked for that to come down. Is it equal?

LEMON: No I don't think it's equal because Jefferson was a figure that who part of the entire United States not just the south. And that doesn't mean that Jefferson was perfect or anyone is perfect.

And our history is not perfect. There may come a day when we may want to rethink Jefferson, I don't if we should that when we get to that point, I'll be happy to partake in that particular discussion. But right now I don't think the two are equal. It's not just, you know, well what about this and what about this and what about this. We're talking about nine people who are dead, who were slaughtered. We're talking people in the south who have been sick of that flag and living under the impression of that flag for generations.

And so now this is the time to talk about it, for him to say, I forget, I don't know if it was Hooterville or Haneyville or whatever it was where the Dukes of Hazzard was, you know, the fictional town and they were saying there was no racist in there. I didn't see one black character in the Dukes of Hazzard.

So what is that mean? There were no black people when the Dukes of Hazzard were being shot in that new commercial with the car. They -- look at the commercial, they do everything they can not to shot the top of that car.

People had moved on, it's called evolution, it's time to move on, it's time to take that flag down. To me it's not even an argument in this man, I don't want to insult him, he is living in the past.

BANFIELD: Well appreciate you, appreciate you coming on, appreciate you taking on those concepts and obviously you have a lot of work ahead of you for your 10:00 live show. Lots of work ahead for your 10:00 show.

Thank you Don, it's always good to have you friend, I appreciate it.

LEMON: Thanks.

BANFIELD: Coming up next, the sudden momentum to takedown South Carolina's confederate flag is spreading fast and it is going to Mississippi where the emblem is actually part of the state flag. But could that be about to change?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:36:01] BANFIELD: So now that there's seems to be lightning fast movement to remove the confederate flag from the grounds of the South Carolina capitol. That would leave one state where the so called stars and bars emblem is actually still flying everyday, Mississippi.

Take a close look. In 2001 the people in that state took a vote by 65 percent in favor of keeping the stars -- that keeping the emblem on their flag, the confederate emblem on their flag. But now some are rethinking that and the conflict is far from over.

Look at the states top two politicians both of them Republican. The Governor Phil Bryant said this "A vast majority of Mississippians voted to keep the stats flag, and I don't believe the Mississippi legislature will act to supercede the will of the people on this issue."

OK, that's the governor but the speaker of the house Philip Gunn said it should be removed. "We must always remember our past, but that is not mean we must let it define us. As a Christian, I believe our state's flag has become a point of offense that needs to be removed. We need to begin having conversations about changing Mississippi's flag."

State Representative Earle Banks is a Democrat and he joins us from Jackson, Mississippi.

You agree with the speaker don't you?

EARLE BANKS, (D) MISSISSIPPI STATE HOUSE: Of course I agree with the speaker he is absolutely correct. We cannot let a flag from the past define who were in Mississippi today or in the future.

BANFIELD: But what are your chances with the kind of like granted 14 years ago in 2001, 64 percent margin of those in your state who said leave it the way it is, what are the chances that there's been this much of a groundswell 15 years later?

BANKS: Well, you know, that was 14 years ago. You have a whole new generation of young people coming in. And I believe that the margin to keep the flag now is much smaller than what it was.

And it's time for the flag to change. Our speaker has made a statement, I applaud him as a Republican speaker of the house to do that. And I want to talk to our Governor Republican Phil Bryant to do the same.

I want to call on our legitimate Governor Reeves, Tate Reeves to do the same, to say it is time for the flag to change. This is actually your Mississippi. We need to tell the voters this is where we stand and this is where we stand on the flag.

Even the Republican Party, our emcee had made a comment on it. It's time for these flags to come down in the south.

BANFIELD: Can I ask you this, there are people who, you know, feel differently about that the 64 percent at least in 2001 whatever the number is today.

I'm curious where they are. We're seeing protest everywhere in particular in South Carolina they're on state capitol today. And they don't seem to want to let up the effort to pull the flag down.

I am not seeing demonstrations in the streets to keep the flag up. Is that coming, is there a reason, there is not a visible representation out on the street in support of this emblem?

BANKS: Well and here in Mississippi, you know, we are mourning the tragic lost of life in South Carolina. And I think right now it's inappropriate for us here in Mississippi to go ahead and do this right now.

I think you will see a movement here in Mississippi after these funeral services and mourning fear for those in South Carolina. But we have been discussing this for years. We have been discussing this now, in the last few days about it and you will be seeing a movement here in Mississippi about it.

But it will be what we feel are more prototype for Mississippi to do that. Of course the governor in South Carolina has lead emotion to go ahead and call for the changes in South Carolina. Our governor here is not done that. And we have called, I have called the governor, I have called lieutenant governor to say it's time for a change on this flag.

BANFIELD: State representative Earle Banks from Mississippi. Thank you for your time. We will continue to watch what happens in your state. Thank you.

[12:40:05] Coming up another news how did frozen hamburger meat helped those convicted killers escaped from a New York State prison, we've got the very latest on the massive nationwide manhunt which maybe much less nationwide than it has been.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: For 18 days, escaped murderers Richard Matt and David Sweat have been on the loose.

Sweat celebrated a birthday while on the run; in a couple of days Matt's going to do it, too. And he'll be 49 years old. But the hope is that authorities the U.S. Marshall, the FBI, the local police, someone will break up the party and break it up soon.

They're combing an area about 20 miles west of the prison after the inmates DNA was found inside a burglarized cabin. Also a source tells our own Deb Feyerick that the man left behind a number of personal items, including a pair of boots and what appears to be a provision that they had planned to take along with them.

The source also says the discovery of the pair of boots suggest that one of the fugitives maybe barefoot, hindering even further their ability to move through the stint, rigid mountain brash and move quickly.

[12:45:02] However, the source could not say whether the other boots or shoes potentially might have been taken from inside the cabin. One other really important note, if they left in a hurry and unexpectedly.

This is new details come to light about how they escaped from that prison in the first place. A source familiar with the investigation telling CNN the tools they used may actually have been smuggled inside the prison in a frozen chunk of hamburger meat.

Investigators are looking into whether Joyce Mitchell that prison employee who's been arrested and accused of helping them escape was able to convince a fellow prison guard to pass that meat on to the inmates in a way that bypassed a metal detector.

And while we're on the subject Joyce Mitchell, her husband, suffering husband you might say Lyle Mitchell came forward for the first time in an exclusive interview with NBC's Today show. He told Matt Lauer that he didn't know anything about his wife alleged plot.

(BEGIN OF VIDEO CLIP) LYLE MITCHELL, JOYCE MITCHELL'S HUSBAND: And so how it happened? She said, "It does -- I got on my head and I was scared and she think he would also tell you. And so what's up? She said, "Their plan was they want to kill you." I said, "What?" They wanted her to come pick him up.

MATT LAUER: So she admitted to you at that moment that once these two escaped from Clinton, and made their way to that manhole --

MITCHELL: Yeah.

LAUER: -- that she was supposed to be the one to pick them up and drive them away.

MITCHELL: She told me that Matt wanted her to pick him up and she said, "Well I never leave no words with that lie on never." And he said "I will give you some pills," they give him, to knock him out and then wheel on and you come pick us up, she said, "I am not doing that," she said, "I love my husband, I am not hurting him," and said, "Then I do also with my head." She said, "I can't do this."

And then she told me he started threaten her, with so many insight of facilities, let's going to do something to me, to harm me or kill me or somebody outside the jail if she didn't stay with this.

LAUER: According to your wife, they were going to kill you for what reason?

MITCHELL: To get me out of the way. But she said, she will never going to do that, that was what she told me and she really love me and she was into the --

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: We're more on the search, I want to bring in Sara Ganim whose live Owl's Head New York, the focus of the search.

Sara, unconfirmed reports have perhaps the sighting over night, is there anything more to that?

SARA GANIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah that's right but authorities here on the ground Ashleigh that that did not lead to anything. It was an unconfirmed sighting one of many that we've seen over the last 18 days. And I didn't lead them anywhere. Here on the ground state police are saying everything is status quo, they are battling rough terrain. And they've been battling torrential down force has been bout all morning.

They've been tracking in, literally tracking in all terrain vehicles and four wheelers to aid them on their search. We've seen back loads of search teams coming in and out of this area.

Now that was happening of course on the search front on the investigation front as you mentioned, they're looking into this possibility of hamburger meats. They are also concerned they're really withdrawn from detailing, the information that they've given out about the search area because they have these concerned that these two may have some means of monitoring police communication, radio communications.

And just to a little context to that, last week when we talked to the District Attorney, he told me that before they escaped, other inmates in the prison saw them with cellphone. They could have easily taken those with them Ashleigh. And I also asked him about, you know, technology inside the prison, could they have known where to go if they're not from this area. And he told me they do have access to a computer inside the prison. They do have access on libraries, there's always the potential that those libraries have maps of course.

So the road that leads from the prison to this cabin where they were seen where we have this DNA that confirm to match the two of them, it's not really that difficult to get there. And one last thing Ashleigh, I just want to mention you hear from Lyle Mitchell today, Joyce Mitchell's husband, investigator have now said that they do not believed that he was involved at all, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: All right Sara Ganim reporting live for us.

And we should just add that the searchers, you know, they say, well, it's really hard for them with thick terrain the drop off and there's a -- just really nasty weather. They get to rotate in and out and they get fresh meals, three squares a day, the inmates don't have that benefit. So they think they're going to be able to pass them at least there.

CNN going to take a look at the search for these inmates in a half hour special airing tonight at 9:00 Eastern Time, The Great Prison Escape it's one for the Hollywood books.

Coming up next, the capture of the D.C. mansion murder suspect and details of the crime you have not heard before.

[12:50:02] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: New details emerging about the D.C. mansion murder mystery. The man allegedly responsible for the quadruple homicide including a child last month have the cousin who was fired from the company owner -- oh it was fired from the company owned by the father, who is one of the murder victim.

CNN Justice Correspondent Pamela Brown take an in depth look in a CNN Special Report D.C. Mansion Murders is a next start.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Voice mails and text messages help piece together the families 18 hours of hell inside the mansion.

MELISSA GUTIERREZ: I'm lucky that I'm still here.

BROWN: Melissa Gutierrez, for the family's other house keeper was suppose to be there. But on Wednesday May 13th her boss Savvas Savopoulos left here a voice mail, telling her not to come to work.

She played the message for ABC, if you listen closely you can hear some commotion in the background.

SAVVAS SAVOPOULOS: It's Savvas, I hope you get this message, Amy is in bed, sick tonight and she was sick this afternoon and Vera offered to stay and help her out, so she's going to stay the night here.

BROWN: Ron Hosko, is the former assistant director of the FBI.

If you're an investigator listening to that, what would that tell you?

RONALD ROSKO: Well, it's going to tell, one, I need to get that recording analyzed to see are there extraneous noises that are spiking up I the background.

SAVOPOULOS: And she was sick this afternoon and Vera offered --

ROKSO: He is at somebody on the background under the rest, Howard (ph).

BROWN: A few hours later Gutierrez gets a text from Amy Savopoulos, I'm making sure you do not come today.

ROSKO: That would indicate that the event has started and that the offender or offenders are in that house, with Amy that she is under their control.

BROWN: What is your first think when you got it?

GUTIERREZ: I called right away.

BROWN: Did she answer?

GUTIERREZ: No.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, (inaudible) which I cannot answer right now. Please state your name and number and detailed (ph) message --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Full report is going to air today at 9:30 Eastern Time on CNN and Justice Correspondent Pamela Brown joins me from Washington now.

I can't wait for this, there's still so much intrigue and mystery behind this case.

What other details did you find out in this report?

BROWN: There really is so much intrigue your right Ashleigh, because police have been saying all along that they believe Daron Wint the only suspect in this case, did not act alone. And we've uncovered some new leads that investigators are looking at Ashleigh, including the fact the Daron Wint's cousin who worked with him at American Iron Works, the company owned by the Savopoulos family, was fired from the family. But not only that, he had threatened according to sources who've been speaking with, to burn down American Iron Works.

That threat was taken so seriously that the company took out a restraining order against him at that time. But still that was 10 years ago and it's still very much a mystery, why this happened, why Daron Wint as we said the only suspect would come back and do something like this to his former boss.

[12:55:10] We know the police were also looking at his brother who was with him in his convoy when he was arrested. And Ashleigh we've also learned from sources that Wint's DNA was found in a various parts of the crime scene, not just on that piece of pizza crust that ultimately led to the manhunt and his arrest.

So we're going to be finding out a lot more in this special airing tonight at 9 P.M. -- oh it's 9:30 P.M. we should say.

BANFIELD: 9:30. And just like a couple of seconds on the family to learn more about this family that died so horribly.

BROWN: We sure did Ashleigh, we spoke to long time family friends including the 10-year-olds go cart coach who was with him during his last race May 3rd, there was an accident, the little boy had a concussion Ashleigh, that is why he was home on that day when the crime begun. But the coach very emotional talking about the close bond the little boy had with his dad Savvas, they traveled across the country going to this tournaments, it's just a heart breaking story.

BANFIELD: Pamela Brown, thank you for that, looking forward to this.

I want to remind our viewers, the Special airs tonight on CNN at 9:30, The D.C. Mansion Murders, make sure you tune in.

Thank you everyone for being with me, it's been a very busy day. And my colleague Wolf Blitzer has been hard at work, he's going to take over after this quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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