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The Reaction to Same Sex Marriage Becoming Legal in All 50 States; Jim Obergefell Makes Statement on Supreme Court's Ruling. 10:30-11a ET

Aired June 26, 2015 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:29:44] DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And so he just released a statement saying "As a father, I welcome today's decision." He has said just politically as a senator he would have preferred that the issue be resolved as part of the Democratic process in the states. But he also went on to say, "I hope after this decision is made that we can move past the division and polarization the issue has caused."

I think that this is a very telling statement for a number of reasons. First of all, because the fact that Rob Portman came out in favor of same-sex marriage a couple of years ago, he actually did so when there were a lot of Democrats, Wolf, who were still against it because they were maybe from conservative states. He actually helped to change the Democratic Party here on Capitol Hill.

But also it really speaks to a reason why you see a lot of politicians and even people who are of a different generation come to change their views because it is personal for them. Because they know somebody in their family. And that is the story of Rob Portman. That's why I think that his statement today is quite telling, that he was such an aberration a couple of years ago because of his decision and now his stance is the law of the land on a national basis.

I should say again he is certainly not indicative of other Republicans. I'm also getting statements from others who, as you can imagine, are not happy about this and say that this is simply a religious decision and it should not be taken up by the court.

And John mentioned Mike Huckabee -- he's a perfect example of that.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: We're standing by for the President of the United States. He's going to be making a statement. We'll have live coverage of that in about a half an hour or so from now. He's scheduled to speak from the White House at 11:00 a.m. Eastern.

We just got a tweet also, reaction from Hillary Clinton. She says "Proud to celebrate a historic victory for marriage equality and the courage and determination of LGBT Americans who made it possible." There's Hillary Clinton's reaction. Like President Obama, her position has clearly changed, evolved over these years as well.

Let's go back to Jake Tapper. He's up near the Supreme Court -- Jake.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Thanks so much. Hillary Clinton another person who opposed same-sex marriage until very recently. I think it was after she left the Department of State that she came out and said that she supported that, having opposed it previously.

We're looking through the opinion written by Justice Anthony Kennedy. We're also looking at the dissents. One point I want to bring up from Anthony Kennedy on page 15 of his majority opinion. He talks about how unfair the current laws banning same-sex marriage -- or the previous laws, I should say -- banning same-sex marriage were to the children of those marriages. "The children suffer the stigma of knowing their families are somehow lesser. They also suffer the significant material cost of being raised by unmarried parents relegated through no fault of their own to a more difficult and uncertain family life. The marriage was at issue here thus harm and humiliate the children of same-sex couples."

That's, of course, the majority opinion.

Now we have some blistering dissents. It will not surprise you to hear that Justice Scalia is the author of perhaps the most lively and blistering dissent. Let's go to Jeffrey Toobin for some of the language there -- Jeffrey.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Blistering dissent, Jake, but it's very different. I think if you want illustrations of how much the country has changed in the past decade or so, you need only look at Justice Scalia because in 2003, in the case of Lawrence v Texas, he also dissented -- another Anthony Kennedy opinion. And that was the case that said gay people could not be criminally prosecuted for having sex.

And listen to this what Justice Scalia wrote in 2003. He said "Many Americans do not want persons who openly engage in homosexual conduct as partners in their business, as scout masters for their children, as teachers in their children's schools or as boarders in their home. They view this as protecting themselves and their families from a lifestyle that they believe to be immoral and destructive."

I mean really just outward bigotry against gay people. Now, today Justice Scalia begins his dissenting opinion by saying "This issue is of no particular importance to me. And the only real issue here is the democratic process. Who makes the decisions, should it be the courts or should it be the people?"

Even Justice Scalia, who is the biggest social conservative on the court, he cannot talk the way he used to talk about gay people because culturally, politically, even legally, it's simply not appropriate and even legal in ways to talk about gay people the way Justice Scalia used to talk about gay people.

TAPPER: Let me go to the court, if I can just interrupt for a second, Jeffrey, we'll talk about the dissents in a second.

But Brian Todd is at the court. People, I believe, perhaps plaintiffs in the case have been coming out and there's been cheering. Brian Todd, what's going on up there? BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, we just saw a crowd

rushing up here. I'm going to actually walk up the steps. Our cameraman by law is not allowed to go up these steps. I'm going to walk up the steps and see what's going on here.

This is an extraordinary thing because the protesters generally as a rule are kept on the plaza in front of these steps. There's some people here speaking. And these are celebrants who are applauding the ruling as some of the attorneys and others come out.

[10:35:01] I'm kind of at the back of the crowd working my way forward. And so I cannot see who is speaking. But it's really extraordinary that the crowds are let up the elevated plaza on the steps leading --

TAPPER: Big cheers at the Supreme Court right now. Brian, while you're engaging in your hike, let's go to Pamela Brown who is also there and maybe can shed light on what's going on -- Pamela.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jake, you can see behind me here huge crowds going up on the plaza, which, by the way, Elizabeth Wydra, is very unusual.

ELIZABETH WYDRA, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, very unusual.

BROWN: And we know that people who were inside that courtroom listening to the opinion being read out loud by Justice Kennedy and the dissent by Chief Justice Roberts coming out and, of course, Jim Obergefell was inside and presumably is who that they're all crowding around right now.

He is the star of this because it was his -- this case was named after him. He married his partner Arthur, who had ALS, in Maryland because they couldn't get married in Ohio where they live because of the ban on gay marriage. He went back to Ohio, wanted his name on the death certificate for his partner that he had married in Maryland, and that's when the fight pursued from there -- ensued. And he has really sort of been the hero for gay rights advocates -- right.

WYDRA: Yes.

You have the lawyers and advocates are coming out. This is big day. This is a momentous decision. And I think it's interesting that, you know, Chief Justice Roberts who leads the Roberts court dissented in this case. He's really going to be a footnote to this history unlike Justice Kennedy who is really cementing his legacy on this momentous day.

Well, the crowds are up on the Supreme Court plaza, which never happens.

BROWN: This never happens. I mean they're all going up there. It's just incredible to see this crowd circling around the people who were inside of that courtroom on this historic day listening to the opinions. You mentioned Chief Justice Roberts, he had the dissent. There were a lot of people who thought maybe he would join Justice Kennedy and be a part of -- have this be a part of his legacy. That did not happen today because he really talked about the democratic process and how this interferes with that -- right.

WYDRA: Exactly. He said it should be left to the democratic conversation to continue. AS you can see we have the people coming up here showing their support for this ruling today.

BROWN: Singing.

WYDRA: Singing. And you know, I think that it just goes to show --

BROWN: Let's listen in.

(SINGING)

BROWN: Just how dramatic this moment is. We don't even have to say anything -- Jake. I think that said it all.

TAPPER: All right, let's go to Brian Todd who is also in that crowd. After hearing that moving rendition of the song, people celebrating the decision of the U.S. Supreme Court -- 5-4 decision basically striking down every ban on same-sex marriage in the country. There were only 13 states affected specifically by that ban that had bans in place and now no longer.

Brian Todd, what's going on where you are?

TODD: Yes, Jake, we're on this elevated plaza right before the main steps of the court. There are security people on the main steps not allowing the crowd to get past this point. But just the fact that they allowed this crowd up on this elevated plaza is extraordinary. I've never seen it. It has rarely happened.

They were just chanting "love has won" as some of the plaintiffs and their attorneys walk by. And now they're just kind of milling around. But it was really an extraordinary scene just a moment ago -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right -- Brian Todd.

Let's go back to Jeffrey Toobin and Jonathan Turley here with me about some of the dissent.

First of all, just to explain, there are 13 states that had the same- sex marriage bans in place. Those were Arkansas, Georgia, Louisiana, Kentucky, Michigan, Missouri, Tennessee, Mississippi, Nebraska, North Dakota, South Dakota, Texas and Ohio. Those same-sex bans have been declared unconstitutional by the U.S. Supreme Court.

Jeffrey Toobin, we were talking about Scalia's language in his dissent not as in your view bigoted as in a decision from 2003 in which he talked about people not wanting to associate with gays and lesbians, but it still has a lot of spice in it, shall we say.

[10:40:05] Here's a footnote from Scalia.

"Footnote: the Supreme Court of the United States has dissented from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Storic to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie." Jeffrey Toobin.

Toobin: Yes, that's part of Scalia's whole theme, which is this is just the majority of the court making up rights that are nowhere based in the constitution.

Jake, if I could just mention one thing as someone who has spent a lot of time on the plaza of the Supreme Court. They never let people up there. I think the sheer number of people who were just overwhelmed, he Supreme Court police there is really an extraordinary testament to how many people are there.

The other point is that moving rendition of "The Star-Spangled Banner" which reminds me of something that Barney Frank used to state. Barney Frank, of course, is the former congressman, gay rights pioneer. He used to say, you know, we gay people, we're really radical. What we really want to do is get married and join the army. Talking about getting rid of don't ask, don't tell and establishing marriage equality.

I think that's one reason why the gay rights movement has been so successful so quickly, which is their demands have been very conservative, joining the army, being allowed to get married. These are very traditional activities. They are not outlandish. And the fact that they sang the "Star-Spangled Banner", not some famous protest song I think is indicative of the very mainstream nature of the gay rights movement today.

TAPPER: We are expecting -- there are microphones set up at the Supreme Court. We are expecting people, victors in this Supreme Court case to come out and speak. When that happens we'll bring that to you live.

We're also expecting President Obama to speak about this at the Rose Garden of the White House at the top of the hour.

But let me go to Brian Todd who is at the Capitol -- I'm sorry -- Supreme Court with the protesters turned celebrants. Brian -- what are you experiencing, what are you seeing?

Todd: This is a great shot, Jake, if you guys can see this. A massive love and equality flag being spread, people running under it, just celebrating around it. Again -- something we haven't really seen here very much at the Supreme Court no matter what the issue is being addressed. We haven't seen a banner this big or crowds this passionate here in a long, long time -- Jake.

If you can see that shot it's really extraordinary. They're raising it up, lowering it down. People still just celebrating around this area. They came up where we are. We were a little bit elevated above this plaza because we came up on the steps here. The security people allowed us on the steps which was an extraordinary measure just an hour ago. And now people are enjoying this extraordinary moment in front of the Supreme Court.

You see the banner being raised and lowered there. People are running under it a moment ago, dancing around it, really celebrating this moment. This could last for some time now -- Jake.

Tapper: We were talking about the sea change in public opinion on the issue of same-sex marriage. According to a pew research poll, support for same-sex marriage in 2009 was just 37 percent, and then in May of this year, it was 57 percent. That number likely to increase when you look at those who are the most strongly in favor of same-sex marriage which includes millennials at a rate of 73 percent and as we've noted many times, young Republicans, Republicans under the age of 30 overwhelmingly support same-sex marriage as well.

So it looks as though for those who oppose same-sex marriage things are not trending in their direction to say the least. Pamela Brown is also at the U.S. Supreme Court -- Pamela.

BROWN: I'm here with Steve Collinson our senior politics reporter who was inside the courtroom when Justice Kennedy began reading the opinion. And Steve, emotions were running high inside that room. Set the scene for us. What was it like?

STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICS REPORTER: That's right. It was quite an extraordinary moment when Justice Kennedy started reading this opinion. He got to the point where he said that same-sex couples can execute their rights to marry in all states.

I look to the public gallery and there were young people there, proponents of same-sex marriage. Their eyes started filling with tears. Several people were crying. You could hear the sort of sniffs as he carried on to read the opinion. People sniffed back their emotions. It was a moment of real emotion and for many of them I guess it was a combination of a long political struggle. They got to the courts this morning to see the end of that.

BROWN: It's been a fight for decades. We know that following Justice Kennedy's reading Chief Justice Roberts read, you know. There was some question of whether or not he was going to join Kennedy in this opinion, in the majority. That didn't happen. What was that like when he started reading his dissent.

[10:45:01] COLLINSON: First of all, it was a real contrast to yesterday with the Obamacare ruling when, of course, Justice Roberts sided with the liberals on the court. That was very interesting on the face of it.

His dissent was not quite as vehement as that of Justice Scalia yesterday on Obamacare. It was much less personal but still very notable. It was very forthright. He basically argued to the people in the court among them the same-sex marriage proponents, that five justices had taken it upon themselves to rewrite what the definition of marriage has been for millennia in many civilizations. And then right at the end of his dissent, he actually addressed --

BROWN: Ok, Jake Tapper, I'm going to go back to you. TAPPER: We're seeing right now, I believe that that is Mr.

Obergefell. He's about to speak, I suppose. Let's listen in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And action.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you ready. Go for it Jim.

JIM OBERGEFELL, LEAD PLAINTIFF: Good morning. My name is Jim Obergefell and I'm from Cincinnati, Ohio. I've lived in Ohio for most of my life. My late husband John and I were together for almost 21 years before he passed away as a result of the complications of ALS.

I'm here today in front of our nation's highest court because my home state fought the recognition of my marriage to John. And when the man I loved and cared for passed away from one of the cruelest diseases known to humanity, the state of Ohio, the state in which I've lived, worked and paid taxes for most of my life, continued to fight my right to list my name on John's death certificate.

No American should have to suffer that indignity. That's why John and I and the 30 plaintiffs who are part of this lawsuit decided to fight. I know in my heart that John is with me today. That man cared for and loved me for 21 years through thick and thin.

Today's ruling from the Supreme Court affirms what millions across this country already know to be true in our hearts. Our love is equal. That the four words etched onto the front of the Supreme Court "equal justice under law" apply to us, too. All Americans deserve equal dignity, respect and treatment when it comes to the recognition of our relationships and families.

Now at long last Ohio will recognize our marriage and, most important, marriage equality will come to every state across our country. It's my hope that the term "gay marriage" will soon be a thing of the past. That from this day forward, it will simply be marriage. And our nation will be better off because of it.

I also hope that this decision has a profound effect in reducing the stigma, the hurt, the alienation and discrimination that LGBT people all too often feel when we live our lives openly and authentically.

At the same time, while we will celebrate today's victory, my heart is also in Charleston. These past few weeks and months have been an important reminder that discrimination in many forms is alive and well in America. It reminds us of the deeply unfortunate reality that progress for some is not progress for all. And that there can be equally significant steps backward as there are forward.

If we're truly dedicated to our democracy and the values that we as a nation cherish, we must be equally committed to ensuring that all citizens are treated equally, that all Americans deserve justice. That's when we're all united.

I want to thank my legal team and especially Al Gerhardstein who stood by me every single step of the way. And, thank you to ACLU, (INAUDIBLE), GLADD and NCLR and all of the litigators, plaintiffs and organizations who fought for equality.

Today's victory, our shared victory was only possible because of each and every one of you. I'd like to give a special thank you to Mary Bonauto and Doug Hallward-Driemeier who brilliantly argued our case before the court and eloquently affirmed my life and relationship and those of millions of others like me across this country. We owe you all a huge debt of gratitude.

But most importantly, I'd like to thank John, for loving me, for making me a better man and for giving me something worth fighting for. I love you. This is for you, John.

Thank you.

TAPPER: That was Jim Obergefell. He was the lead plaintiff in this case. And we're going to hear from some other plaintiffs right now. Here's another one. There were at least four other cases.

[10:49:58] MARY BONAUTO, ATTORNEY FOR THE PETITIONERS: Hi everyone, I'm Mary Bonauto -- gay and lesbian advocates and defenders. I argued question one. I want to say today was a momentous decision, and it is going to bring joy to millions of families, gay and straight across this land.

And now every person in this country who is LGBT realizes they can marry tomorrow. They can marry someday the person they love and make that unique commitment and take on that unique responsibility Justice Kennedy talked about this morning that is marriage.

It is also a great thing for kids who no longer have to question why their parents were deemed unworthy of marriage and those kids can also have the same security and protections that marriage provides to families.

TAPPER: The reaction to this has been very strong, both among the Democratic presidential hopefuls who have been applauding the decision by the majority of the court and, of course, the Republican hopefuls, presidential hopefuls, some of whom disagree very strongly with the decision of the court. The United States today becoming the 21st nation in the world to recognize same-sex marriage.

Let's go back to Wolf Blitzer in the studio.

BLITZER: It truly is historic and it's very emotional especially for the people who are there at the United States Supreme Court who are applauding this 5-4 decision legalizing same-sex marriage all over the United States.

S.E. Cupp is one of our CNN political commentators. S.E., You can see how happy these people are now that they will have equal rights to get married.

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, frankly, it's -- sorry -- hard to watch that and not get emotional. Those people there are not pariahs. They are patriots. And wherever you stand on the politics of this issue, and I've long been in support of gay rights, it's hard not to see these people as just wanting the human dignity that the rest of us have, whether that's -- when it comes to death benefits or hospital visitation or child custody, tax issues.

So again the politics of this is one thing, but I would just challenge members of my party to look at the faces on the right-hand of your screen and ask yourselves if they deserve the same kind of dignity that the rest of us get to enjoy.

You can argue with the Supreme Court's rationale and whether or not they had the right to sort of make this decision on behalf of individual states, but this is America. Those people are Americans, and that is our future.

And so for my party, which I deeply, deeply love -- my party will really have to reconcile with the fact that we are become relics if we don't get to where these people are. They're patriots. They're not asking for a lot. And it's really time for I think the party politics to shift on this.

BLITZER: You may not know this yet but the Republican National Committee, S.E., your party just issued a statement critical of this decision by the United States Supreme Court.

The decision is based basically on the 14th amendment to the constitution, S.E. There are couple of sentences in there and I'll read it to our viewers. "Nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty or property without due process of law nor deny any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

In effect, that 14th Amendment to the constitution says gay Americans have equal rights right now as heterosexual Americans. If they want to get married, it is their right to get married. A clearly momentous day here in the United States, S.E.

CUPP: Yes, and what I've never understood is why conservatives who are not sort of on my side of this don't understand these are people who are begging to be part of a traditionally conservative institution that celebrates monogamy and economic stability. This is something we should be applauding. These aren't people who are trying to get rid of the institution of marriage. These are people who want to be part of it. And that's a good thing for American family values. That's a good thing for children. That's a good thing for adoption. That's a good thing for economic stability.

So really, it's always been natural for me to make a conservative case for gay marriage, but I hope seeing some of the faces of these people who have fought for so long for very little -- really just for recognition of their unions, their monogamous unions, I really hope that this can change some hearts and minds in my party.

You're not going to do it at the barrel of a gun. You're going to do it through human stories like these.

BLITZER: And gay Americans want to be equal citizens. They don't want to be second class citizens. And you can see that on the faces there.

S.E., just tell our viewers why this is so emotional for you.

[10:55:02] CUPP: You know, I grew up with gay friends. Some of my closest friends are gay -- gay people. I've been getting texts all day, all morning. You know, how happy they are and how happy they know I am. I'm the signatory on a number of amicus briefs in favor of gay marriage. These are people.

This is why people like Rob Portman have changed their minds. Because you meet people. Not policies, not politics. But as you meet real people and you realize they're not asking for much. They're asking for what you take for granted. They're asking for recognition and human dignity.

They're not extremists. They're not pariahs. They're patriots. And to celebrate with them after so many years of feeling like there was a double standard and different treatment, means everything to me and more young people like me are going to just know more people like that.

That's why I'm trying to tell my party that you're going to be a relic, you're going to be left behind if you don't come to terms with the fact that this is our future. You don't have to like it. You don't have to embrace it. But you have to accept it.

This is not a moment in history. This is the future.

BLITZER: And basically from what I'm hearing you say, what our polls show is that young Republicans like you, S.E., they're with you. They're not with their parents' generation when it comes to the issue of same-sex marriage.

CUPP: Yes, I'm not alone here. I mean we might be the minority within the Republican Party, but when you look at groups, former group Go Proud or Log Cabin Republicans, Conservatives for the Freedom to Marry -- there are legions of young conservatives out there who think it is perfectly within the purview of their conservative values to support gay marriage and support the idea that the government should not be in the business of marriage. The government should stay out of our private lives.

So I think you're just going to find more and more conservatives like me of that mind as we move forward.

BLITZER: Stand by, S.E. I want to go back to Pamela Brown. She's got a very special guest with her -- Pamela.

BROWN: Wolf, I'm here with the lead plaintiff in this case, Jim Obergefell. I imagine you are just full of emotions right now.

OBERGEFELL: I am. From tears of joy, tears of sadness, it's definitely bittersweet that John isn't here to celebrate, but it's been an incredible day and something I never thought I would experience. BROWN: Just for our viewers who may not know, Jim, your partner,

John, had ALS. You live in Ohio. Had to go to Maryland to get married. You came back to Ohio. And wanted your name on the death certificate. Tell me what the fight has been like from that moment.

OBERGEFELL: Well, the fight from the very start was always about our relationship and wanting respect and wanting it to be treated with dignity. That's what started our fight and that's what it's been from the beginning. As Americans we deserve the same rights and same respect as any other couple.

And it's been an incredible thing for me to do to be able to stand up and fight for not just John and my marriage, but for couples all across the country. It's been an unbelievable, incredibly moving and humbling experience.

BROWN: When you were inside that courtroom today and Justice Kennedy said he was going to read his opinion and your name was on this case, what did that feel like?

OBERGEFELL: Oh, I jerked in my seat. I jumped up. I think I even squeaked a little bit because I knew it was possible, but it took me by surprise.

BROWN: It did.

OBERGEFELL: It did very much so. I don't know if I thought maybe another case would happen first, I'm not sure. But it took me by surprise because it was just we sat down and Justice Kennedy started speaking and it was our case. It was -- just took me by surprise. Then I cried. I cried throughout almost his entire ruling.

BROWN: When you knew it was Justice Kennedy, did you have that feeling, this is it, we're going to win?

OBERGEFELL: That ran through my mind, but I think it ran through my mind so quickly that I didn't even catch it. But when he started talking, first couple of sentences out of his mouth, I thought, I think we got this.

BROWN: You have really been -- emerged as sort of a hero for gay rights advocates as the lead plaintiff. What was that like for you, Jim, when you walked out of the Supreme Court and there was this huge crowd on the plaza celebrating, what was that like?

OBERGEFELL: Indescribable. And you know, we weren't able to come down the steps. We came around the side and through the middle of the crowd and just the cheers and people giving me thumbs up and high fives and yelling my name. And it was -- it just made it all real and it reinforced that this fight wasn't simply about my marriage and me and John, it was about so many other people.

[11:00:06] And it just kind of coalesced all the experiences I've had over the past almost two years fighting for this where I meet people, they thank me, they hug me, they tell me stories -- that all happened just coming across the plaza. [11:00:00]

BROWN: Did you ever think you would be at the center of this historic ruling?

OBERGEFELL: Never. Never in my wildest dreams would I have thought of this.

BROWN: 50 years from now, law students are going to be studying this case. Your name is going to be on that, Obergefell. What's that thinking now - what is that like for you?

OBERGEFELL: Well it makes me chuckle to think of all those law students having to learn how to pronounce and spell my name.

BROWN: I had to learn myself.

OBERGEFELL: So, I chuckled about that from the start. But, I don't know. It doesn't seem possible. I don't feel worthy of that. You know, people have called this a landmark case, which I guess now I can say it is. But it doesn't seem possible that I could be in the same league as Roe versus Wade, Brown versus the Board of Education, Edie Windsor. It just doesn't seem possible. It's hard to really let that sink in.

BROWN: You had said earlier that while this is a victory, it's also bittersweet because your partner, John Arthur, isn't here today. What do you want to say to him?

OBERGEFELL: Thank you, John, for loving me and putting up with me and giving me the best thing possible in life to fight for. Love.

BROWN: Anything else you want to add?

OBERGEFELL: Just a great big thank you to my other friends and plaintiffs, Pam and Nicole, Ryan and Grayden, Helly Kelly and Ruby, Joe Robin Cooper, Craig and Michael. Thank you all for been willing to be part of this and putting your lives out there as well. It's - and everyone else, I don't know the other names. So - and it would take too long.

BROWN: Jim Obergefell, thank you so much for talking with us. And congratulations on your victory today.

OBERGEFELL: Thank you.

BROWN: Jake Tapper, back to you.