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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Same-Sex Marriage Legal in All 50 States. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired June 26, 2015 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:00:29] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Breaking news. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. Welcome, everyone. I'm coming to you live from the West Village of New York City at a place where there was genesis of a gay rights movement, the Stonewall Inn. The site of a 1969 riot that lead to a robust gay rights movement that today has culminated in perhaps the most sweeping landmark decision in recent era with regards to civil rights. It is a new era across the country as of this morning at 10:00 a.m. where in a 5-4 decision the justices handed down clearance to everyone the right to marry right across the states from sea to shining sea. No state can ban gay marriage after the decision passed today.

You can hear a lot of reaction. The crowds have begun to swell in this location. Not surprisingly, there is something else this weekend. This happens to coincide with a very robust gay pride celebration weekend. The gay pride parade scheduled for Sunday in New York City, promising to be more exuberant, more attended and more robust than perhaps any that have come before it.

I want to get you right to the meat and potatoes of this decision. Let's go right to the Supreme Court of the United States steps in Washington, D.C., where my colleague justice correspondent Pam Brown is standing by.

Pam.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Certainly an historic day here at the Supreme Court. The justices ruled on one of the greatest civil rights issues of our time. In a majority - 5-4 majority led by Justice Kennedy, the holding today is that gays and lesbians have a nationwide constitutional right to marry. The justices striking down the bans in the 13 states against banning same-sex marriage. And let me read the holding, what makes this now legal for gays and lesbians across the country to get married.

It says, and this is written by Justice Kennedy, "the right to marry is a fundamental right inherit in the liberty of the person and under the due process and equal protection clauses of the 14th Amendment. Couples of the same sex may not be deprived of that right and that liberty. The court now holds that same-sex couples may exercise the fundamental right to marry."

Justice Kennedy went on to talk about dignity and he says here, he goes, "they asked" - talking about same-sex couples - "for equal dignity in the eyes of the law. The Constitution grants them that right."

Ashleigh, I spoke to the lead plaintiff in this case, Jim Obergefell. In fact, it was a historic moment when I talked to him and President Obama called him congratulating him. Let's listen to that conversation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIM OBERGEFELL: Hello.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Hi, is this Jim?

OBERGEFELL: Yes, it is, Mr. President.

OBAMA: Jim, the - I figured when I saw you that we were going to be hoping for some good news, and we did. And I just wanted to say congratulations.

OBERGEFELL: Thank you so much, sir. I think it was your wishes -

OBAMA: (INAUDIBLE) - you know your - your leadership on this, you know, has changed - changed the country.

OBERGEFELL: I - I really appreciate that, Mr. President. It's really been an honor for me to be involved in this fight and to have been able to, you know, fight for my marriage and live up to my commitments to my husband. So I appreciate - I appreciate everything you've done for the LGBT community and it's really an honor to - to have become part of that fight.

OBAMA: Well, I'm really proud of you and, you know, just - just know that, you know, not only have you been a great example for people, but you're also going to, you know, bring about a lasting change in this country and it's pretty rare when that happens. So I couldn't be prouder of you and your husband. God bless you.

OBERGEFELL: Thank - thank you, sir. That means an incredible amount to me. And, yes, thank you.

OBAMA: All right, take care.

OBERGEFELL: Thanks for the call, Mr. President.

OBAMA: OK. Bye, bye.

OBERGEFELL: Bye.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So there we heard it, President Obama telling the lead plaintiff, Jim Obergefell, that his leadership has changed the country. And as we could see there, he was - he was really speechless because his story is really been - become sort of the center of this. He married his husband, Arthur, John Arthur, in Maryland because he couldn't get married where they lived in Ohio where there was a ban. His husband, John Arthur, died shortly after. He had ALS. And Obergefell wanted to be put on the death certificate and then the fight ensued. And he was part of the reason why we are here today and why this is such a historic moment because the justices, again, ruling that gays and lesbians have a constitutional right to marriage.

[12:05:29] And I'm joined by Mary Bonauto, the attorney who argued this case in the court.

I was there during the oral arguments, Mary, and you really focused on this, that not only is this about states discriminating against gays and lesbians, but also that this is a fundamental right for them to get married. Talk about that.

MARY BONAUTO, GLAD LAWYER WHO ARGUED FOR PLAINTIFFS: Absolutely. I mean in this nation there are certain guarantees, certain things that are just so important to our liberties and who we are that the court protects them. And so when the states have periodically said you can't marry because of your race or you can't marry because you're not a good parent or whatever it might be, the courts have struck that down and said, we all enjoy this equal, fundamental right to marry. And today the court said that about gay people, that there is this fundamental right and that gay people, same-sex couples can enjoy it on the same terms as everyone else.

BROWN: How significant, momentous, is this decision today, Mary?

BONAUTO: Well, this is momentous because - for a number of reasons. Number one, it is marriage, which is how we organize family life in this nation and it's just so important to who people are and protections for their children and for one another. It's the person you love most in the world and the way that we express that is through marriage. So it's so personally important and profound.

But then as another matter, it's a time when this court stood by the principles of saying, we're not going to tolerate laws that disadvantage people simply because of who they are. And in this case it was gay people and same-sex couples. And that's important.

BROWN: And their children, too.

BONAUTO: Absolutely.

BROWN: And that was something that really seemed to factor into Justice Kennedy's decision here. I'm going to read a part of the opinion. He says, "the marriage laws at issue here thus harm and humiliate the children of same-sex couples." And that was also something we heard from him during the oral arguments. Clearly he was concerned about the children of these same-sex couples and their dignity.

BONAUTO: Absolutely. Absolutely. And the Michigan petitioners who I represent have five kids who were placed with them by the state, very vulnerable children who have loved them and loved them. And as those children get older they ask, why aren't you able to marry? And that sense of that you're different and deficient and not worthy of marriage is damaging for the whole family, including for the children.

BROWN: You have been part of this fight from the very beginning. I have to ask you, Mary, this morning, when we found out it was Obergefell and that Justice Kennedy was reading the opinion, when you heard that, what was your emotion like at that stage?

BONAUTO: Well, excited. Excited and hopeful. But, of course, I wasn't counting on anything until I heard the words that marriage extends across the country.

BROWN: The fundamental right. A very broad ruling from Justice Kennedy. Mary Bonauto, you argued this case. Thank you so much for being here with us and talking to us.

BONAUTO: Thank you.

BROWN: Ashleigh, back to you.

BANFIELD: So I'm on a bit of a delay here, Pam, I'll apologize for that. But I just wanted to let you know something we've learned, that the mayor of New York City, Mayor Bill de Blasio, where gay marriage is legal, New York state has recognized gay marriage, but perhaps symbolically the mayor of this city is going to perform two gay marriages at about 2:00 p.m. Eastern time today. So there is news dropping fast and furiously.

But as the litigation has yielded hundreds of thousands of pages of evidence, testimony, and arguments, there's been a lot of emotion that's built as well that perhaps can't be measured so perfectly. But you can hear it. You can hear it around where I am. You can hear it in the voices who've worked for so long towards this movement.

After George Takei, you know him best as the actor - as the character Sulu from "Star Trek." He's an author, he's an actor, he's also a gay rights activist and he joins me live via the telephone.

George, I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to hear you that well, but I just want to ask you your reaction hearing about this sweeping decision from the Supreme Court.

GEORGE TAKEI, ACTOR, AUTHOR, ACTIVIST (via telephone): Well, today is a great landmark day for America because now I can truly pledge allegiance to the United States of America, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. So it's a very, very joyous day for all Americans, but certainly for LGBT Americans.

BANFIELD: So I think there's so much still left to be said regarding the actual process because while the Supreme Court has had its say, there's still a lot of messy work to be done in at least 20 of the states that still recognize those bans. Those still need to be challenged. So is the right - or is the work of gay rights activists effectively over or do you still see this as a challenge to the finish line?

TAKEI: Indeed, we see it as a challenge. It's going to be a new challenge, but we are very mindful of that challenge that still remains.

[12:10:08] They are now, some of these states, are going to try to use the shroud of religious freedom. I believe in religious freedom and they have - people who argue that are entitled to their freedom. But they don't have the freedom to impose their religious values on to others. And, you know, there needs to be a - be a - and what the - what Justice Kennedy said talked about respect for each other and some of the Republican candidates, too, are saying we need to respect each other.

And for me, the kind of homophobia that they express so shrilly is un- understandable to me because we are literally members of the family. We are not the other. We are sons and daughters, brothers and sisters, and in some cases fathers and mothers of gay people. And why they have that phobia against people that are blood kin is absolutely unfathomable. Love for your siblings, love for - a parents' love for the child and the child's love for the parent is the most natural thing in the world. And homophobic people are ones that I - to me are absolutely incomprehensible. I've heard some of the people of - expressing their comments on the Supreme Court ruling and they're entitled to that. But they are not entitled to impose their will on everybody.

BANFIELD: Well, George, it's good of you to take the time to give us your comments today on this very momentous day. I'm sure that for you this means so much given the amount of activism that, you know, post "Star Trek" and your authorous (ph) career you have dedicated to this cause. I appreciate your voice in this. Thank you.

I want to remind our viewers, if you're just joining us, I'm Ashleigh Banfield. I'm coming to you live from the west village in New York City. And there is a great significance to the landmark where I'm standing. The Stonewall Inn was the site of the riots back in 1969 where at a time when being openly gay was not legal, the police raided this hotel. They rated the bar, a gay bar, and finally the patrons fought back. They rioted and the riots went on for days.

And this became sort of the battle cry, the rallying cry geographically speaking, for gay rights movement in New York. And upon hearing the news, they've come out. There are crowds that are gathering, just beginning to gather as the news breaks that there is this new law of the land, a new era in civil rights, gay marriage now legal across the United States for all intents and purposes. Not saying there's not a lot of litigation that remains. It's going to take some time. There will be a delay before it's effectively in place for everyone, but the top court has spoken.

There is so much more to what's happening politically speaking, what the White House has to say, is it's a second football spike in a day for this president? Is it the legacy he was looking for? And what about 2016? All of that coming up after the break.

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[12:16:52] BANFIELD: Back live with here with breaking news from CNN. The law of the land, according to the highest court of the land, is that there can be no ban on gay marriage, no matter what state you live in. Even if you're in a state where bans exist, it is likely just a matter of time before those bans will fall. All it's going to take is a challenge. The top court has spoken.

I want to go directly to the steps of the Supreme Court of the United States where Congressman Sean Patrick Maloney is standing by. He's also - just so happens to be the co-chair of the LGBT Equality Caucus.

I want to get your reaction to this decision right away, if I can, congressman.

REP. SEAN PATRICK MALONEY (D), NEW YORK: Well, it's emotional and it's historic. This is a great day for all Americans. It's especially meaningful for those of us who have fought for this for decades. My partner Randy and I got married a year ago. He's now my husband. But we've been together for 23 years. We've raise three children together. Today means that our family is equal in the eyes of our own country's laws. And that makes me very proud of my country and it means I get to go home and look my kids in the eyes and I don't have to feel like they're going to be treated as less than anybody else in this country. And that's - that's a very emotional day for us.

BANFIELD: Congressman, I'm sorry, I've lost a connection to you. I'm not sure if the viewers can still hear you or if it's just me, but you mentioned your husband Randy Florke, who just so happens to be joining us live as well. While you're in Washington, D.C., Randy is here in New York at a different location. I'd like to get your reaction too as well, Randy, and I hope I can hear you.

RANDY FLORKE, HUSBAND OF REP. MALONEY: Yes, I can hear you and I could hear Sean. Thank you for having us on.

I just want to say that, you know, this is not a great day for gay people, this is a great day for Americans. I think that like we are not equal until we're all equal and today is that day. So I just think it's an amazing moment. And as somebody who got married a year ago, almost exactly a year ago, it is just a wonderful feeling to know that we will be recognized in the entire country and for our children it's incredibly validating. It's really an emotional moment.

BANFIELD: Well, I'm glad you had the time to talk to us today and I did hear most of what you said. I do have to admit, though, I'm losing a little bit of my signal. I'm down here in the west village live at the Stonewall Inn. It is famous, especially among those who have fought for gay rights across America and here in New York City on the weekend of gay pride.

So with that in mind, I also want to mention that there is still the legal challenges that lie ahead, believe it or not. SCOTUS speaks is not the end of the story. Not for some states who still are digging in because there is the issue - and I'm going to apologize for the language, but it is a - it is a pretty excited air out here.

There is the issue of Religious Freedom Restoration Act state to state.

Go to break. Be right back.

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[12:23:15] BANFIELD: (INAUDIBLE) profanity flying because we're a daytime -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I totally - I totally understand.

BANFIELD: Welcome back, everyone. Ashleigh Banfield reporting live in the west village of New York City at the Stonewall Inn, a historic site as the birthplace of the gay rights movement in New York. And make no mistake, across America, people know this location.

People have started to gather here. There are, I'd say now we're getting close to at least 100 plus, it might be even 200 within my view. A police presence here as well. This will be an intense area of celebration as this is gay pride weekend here and gay pride month. But this weekend is the gay pride parade. It is a story, an historic parade in New York City. It will be even more so this Sunday when it takes place.

I want to get you right to Jeffrey Toobin, our senior legal analyst at CNN, for some of the more technical questions when it comes to what the Supreme Court has just done and how the people of the United States will see it or not see it.

Jeffrey, I want to ask you in particular if you could just sort of lay out the case for those people who may live in those 20 states that are still experiencing bans on gay marriage, that there's litigation ahead in order for that to end.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: There is, Ashleigh, but I wouldn't overstate the complexity of the situation now. In a matter of weeks, in all 50 states, there are going to be same-sex marriages. States are going to be required to allow these ceremonies to take place. Now, there may be some technical implementation controversies. In Alabama, where the chief justice has been resisting the orders of federal courts, I mean there has been more complexity than in most states. But I've already seen several states, including Ohio, which was the focus of this case, have acknowledged that they're going to start allowing same-sex marriages. So, you know, in a complicated legal world, today's decision is really not all that complicated in its implications, which is that states have to allow gay people to get married.

[12:25:24] BANFIELD: And it's not necessarily immediate for all but eventual for all.

And then there's this from the Texas attorney general, Jeffrey Toobin, and that is that the plan in that state at the very least is to work towards some kind of implementation of a Religious Freedom Restoration Act, which he believes will give some sort of relief to those who, for their religious morals or whatever those purposes may be, might be able to abstain from performing these kinds of ceremonies. And I'm not talking about civilians, I'm talking about those who actually officiate legal proceedings, government proceedings. Can you walk me through how some states may do that and how that may thwart some efforts at gay marriage?

TOOBIN: Right. Now, I think it's important to remind folks that the Supreme Court decision has nothing to do with whether members of the clergy have to perform weddings. Priests, ministers, rabbis, imams, they do not have to perform same-sex marriages if they don't want. That is the core of the First Amendment. So today's decision has only to do with civil marriages, civil ceremonies.

And what the Texas attorney general is saying is that we want an exemption for local officials who have a moral objection to performing these ceremonies. I don't think the courts, the federal courts, are going to allow that. It's one thing to allow private parties, florists, cake bakers, to say they don't want to participate in a wedding and they have a right not do that. We can argue about whether that's - that's a good idea or not, but I think it's clearly constitutional.

But when you're talking about the government, the government refusing to allow gay people to get married when the Supreme Court has said that they need to be allowed to do that, I think Texas is going to be on some very weak ground there.

BANFIELD: All right, Jeff Toobin, thank you for your insight. I appreciate it. Knowing it's been a busy two days for you, this the second monumental decision handed down by the Supreme Court in two days. Yesterday, Obamacare, in favor of the president's health care act and then today gay marriage, also signature legislation, this government announced long ago it was no longer going to fight this issue and ultimately the Supreme Court has weighed in, yes.

I am standing in a very historic area, the Stonewall Inn in New York City, and I'll bet you back in '69 when those riots began between police and gay patrons who'd had enough of the raids, who'd had enough of the laws, I'll bet they never thought that four states, Ohio, Kentucky, Tennessee and Michigan, would end up being what changed the law of the land at the Supreme Court for gay rights, sea to shining sea.

We're back right after this.

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