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Escapee David Sweat Shot Twice, Captured Alive. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired June 28, 2015 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:00] ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They'd honed in on a very tight perimeter - a 22-square mile search area. They had flooded this zone with some 1300 law enforcement officers. And while the break did not come as quickly as some had expected or hoped, all along throughout the weekend, law enforcement continue to tell us that they were confident that if David Sweat was still in the area, they would get him. We noticed some changes this morning just on the ground, Suzanne. We saw that investigators were going door-to-door in the village of Malone, clearing house by house. They were progressing a little bit northward. It makes a lot of sense right now given that David Sweat has now been confronted by authorities north of Malone, south of that Canadian border.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN ANCHOR: And Alexandra, do we know if he had a weapon? We know that Richard Matt had a weapon when he was taken down. We know here that David Sweat has been shot, that he is still alive. Was he armed when he was confronted?
FIELD: Our sources' not able to give us the details of what went down, how he was taken into custody, only to say that David Sweat was shot. Suzanne, you'll remember that all along, investigators had been operating under the assumption that both men would be armed. Both men obviously considered to be highly dangerous. That's because they had been going cabin to cabin. A lot of these cabins and camps here in Franklin County in the northern part of New York in this deeply wooded part of the Adirondacks are hunting cabins. That means that there are plenty of shotguns and rifles that are left behind.
When they encountered Richard Matt, he did in fact have a shotgun. Authorities say that they told him to put his hands up, that he didn't, and that's why that tactical team shot him, killing him. No confirmation yet on whether or not David Sweat was armed. Police had not confirmed whether or not they had specific evidence that there was a gun missing that could be in David Sweat's possession, only the fact that they had reiterated to us repeatedly that they expected that when they found him, he would or might be armed. At this point, no details on whether in fact he did have a gun, whether or not he fired any shots.
MALVEAUX: And, Alexandra, another question for you - do we have a sense of the condition that he is in? We know that we just got that autopsy report earlier about Matt that he was killed, shot three times in the head by law enforcement tactical team. Do we know where he has been taken and what his medical condition is? FIELD: No word yet on what condition he is in as a result of the shots but we can probably gleam that he is in some kind of similar physical shape to what Richard Matt was in. It was clear from the autopsy to investigators that he had spent a significant period of time outdoors, that he had those bug bites, the blisters that they had talked about. We would expect that David Sweat would be in similar physical condition.
No word at this point on where he was shot, how many times he was shot, or where he has been taken at this point, only that investigators have him custody. This is incredibly important as part of this case progresses at this point, Suzanne. You had one of these fugitives who was shot dead but you have another now who has been taken alive. If his condition allows, he could provide investigators with the kind of information that they have sought for so long. They've been investigating this case for more than three weeks now trying to figure out how these fugitives were able to tunnel their way out of this maximum security prison. We know that there are two corrections officers - excuse me, two prison employees who were charged in connection with the escape. But here's the missing link - David Sweat. He will be able to provide investigators potentially with a lot of the details about who else he could have possibly been working with inside that prison in order to execute this very elaborate plan, Suzanne.
MALVEAUX: All right. Alexandra, thank you so much. I know you're going to be getting more information.
I want to bring more people into the conversation. Tom Fuentes, our law enforcement analyst.
And Tom, very good points here. You and I have been discussing this all afternoon here. What could we learn from Sweat now that he is still alive and how important is that?
TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST (via phone): Well, first of all, we can learn whether he had any other assistance (inaudible) who had (inaudible) in getting out, whether that's another corrections officer or contractor that helped them cut pipes and cut through concrete walls, the (inaudible), what was - was Joyce the only plan they had to drive away from the prison once they came up out of the manhole cover? What was their intention once they got out? Were they going to leave the state? Were they going to Canada? Were they - or Mexico? Did the plan go (inaudible) and they end up foraging in the woods for three weeks trying to survive as it appears now that may have been the case. So there are - there's a lot to learn. But I think particularly, back to the original point, are there other people who are guilty at that prison of providing the assistance they got to get out?
MALVEAUX: And, Tom, I mean, that was pretty close. You're talking about two miles south of the Canadian border. Is it possible - very possible - that he might have just slipped right from between our hands here and crossed the border?
FUENTES: Well, it's very possible. But what the - what's interesting here is that the very first night they escaped, when they had about an eight or nine hour head start, they just about could have walked to Canada right from the prison and gotten there before anybody was even looking for them. They could have hitchhiked. They could have done a number of things because nobody was even searching for them until finally, the next morning, Saturday morning and the last time they had been confirmed in the prison was Friday night at the last check before they went to their cells.
[16:05:10]
So they had an enormous head start, had they chosen to go directly to go directly to Canada from the beginning. They could have known north from south in the - in the darkness. Maybe they didn't have a compass. But had they done that, they should have easily gotten there.
MALVEAUX: I want to bring in John Anderson. He's with the Wellsville Daily Reporter. The area where this all happened - he's been reporting this for some time.
And does it surprise you - I mean - that he was actually apprehended fairly close in that same area - that 22-square mile range - where his partner was shot and killed?
VOICE OF JOHN ANDERSON, REGIONAL EDITOR, WELLSVILLE DAILY REPORTER: Well, you just have - you've got to wonder, if this was years ago before (inaudible) actually geared compasses, maybe they would have made it to Canada. It's amazing. Two miles from there. So no, I don't think they knew where they were going. But right now, from what I'm hearing from investigators, he was shot. He is bleeding. I think the concern is and what we're all trying to find out - where was he shot? Because anyone who's been involved in shootings, internal injuries are so important. You can be shot and feel OK, just like in a car accident and then die from your internal injuries. So I think this is a very critical time now for law enforcement and for investigators (inaudible) which you've been talking about, to find out what Sweat can tell them and what he knows. We don't know his exact condition but this has got to be a concern until we know where he was shot.
MALVEAUX: And do we know how far it was between the location in which he was shot and his partner, Richard Matt, was shot and killed? Were they close? Were they fairly close - those two areas?
ANDERSON: Yes. It's all within that - all within that radius there in the County. This was north of Malone and closer to the Canadian border.
MALVEAUX: How many people were involved? John, do you have any idea of how he was taken out? How he was taken down?
ANDERSON: I do not. I am waiting on - I'm clearly waiting on text messages right now as we're speaking to get some details.
MALVEAUX: Jonathan, I want - I want to bring you into the conversation here. How important is it? I mean, we're talking about we do not know where he was shot, the extent of his injuries. We know that of course that he will be treated. But I imagine, in your experience as a former police officer, that he offers a lot of potential information in terms of what went wrong in this prison, in this correctional facility, and potentially, how it was that for three weeks - almost four weeks - that they managed to elude police?
JONATHAN GILLIAM, FORMER FBI SPECIAL AGENT: Well, I'll tell you, if they can keep him alive, I think they're going to be able to get information of him. Now, remember, he could go back to prison and never say anything. But I think the position that he's in now, similar to the female employee that was arrested as well, the more information they give, the better their life is going to be because this individual - Sweat - is going to spend the rest of his life in jail. So I think this could be really good for the further investigation that's going to happen as far as how this stuff actually was carried out. But I will tell you, these different groups that are out there - especially the special forces type of groups like the hostage rescue team or the customs groups - they all have medics embedded with them that are a part of those teams. So I'm sure he's getting critical care very rapidly right now.
MALVEAUX: Do you have any idea, any sense, of where the closest medical facility is? I mean, we've been talking about this focus on this very wooded - densely-wooded area. Is there a hospital that's nearby where he can be treated? Or would they actually have a helicopter or something in place right there to get him to where he needs to be?
GILLIAM: I don't know exactly. I'm not familiar with that area. But I will tell you that the medics that they have on these teams are highly-skilled at working with gunshot wounds and they're very highly- trained. So - and as far as helicopters go, there are probably more police helicopters in that area right now than anywhere else in the United States. So I'm sure that they're going to do everything that they can to get him to a hospital as fast as possible.
MALVEAUX: All right. We're going to bring in our own Jean Casarez who's been on this story for many, many days and weeks.
Jean, I understand you have new information?
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via phone): Yes. We are standing right outside the Alice Hyde Medical Center - it's in the town of Malone, obviously, upstate New York - and we're actually driving on state route 30 toward Constable which is a small community and (inaudible) we saw a convoy of New York state police vehicles, two ambulances with their lights on, no siren, but driving at a very, very high rate of speed. So we turned around and they came right here, Alice Hyde Medical Center.
[16:10:01]
It's in the city of Malone. I am looking at an ambulance right now with its lights on. We are as close to the emergency entrance as we can get. But no one is saying anything but there is a police presence that is very strong. They have blockades so you can't get anywhere near the entrance of the emergency but there is a lot of action here at the hospital with many, many units of the New York state police, the local Franklin County sheriff's department, Malone police, and as I - as I say, and with a convoy of numerous law enforcement vehicles and two ambulances driving at a high rate of speed which are now here at the hospital in Malone.
MALVEAUX: And, Jean, if you would, describe for us what it is that you're seeing at the hospital. I can only imagine the kind of security - the heightened security that is there when you have somebody of this value in police custody who they very, very much will want to keep alive for information here, who may have a very serious injury.
CASAREZ: The mobilization happened absolutely extraordinarily quickly because this convoy came in just minutes ago and now, you have roads blocked off, you have officers standing in the street, you see that they're on their walkie talkies. I just saw a New York state police officer coming out of the emergency entrance. He is walking down the street. We can see the entrance to the emergency room of this hospital - the Alice Hyde Medical Center here in the small town of Malone. This is the sheriff's department right here. Now, a sheriff's department officer coming out of that emergency room and as I - as I told you, there was a convoy with lights on, no siren, but numerous law enforcement vehicles going at a high rate of speed to this medical center. Two ambulances. One of those ambulances now very close to the entrance of the emergency room. Another ambulance is in the street next to the emergency room. But I can't tell you how many law enforcement officers are continuing to arrive here at this moment. You've got New York state police. You've got the sheriff's department. I see them coming and going from that emergency room. Now, we have Franklin County sheriff's department is here. The mobilization is amazingly fast. Word is spending and the roads are blocked (inaudible) off so vehicles cannot get anywhere near this emergency room entrance.
MALVEAUX: And, Jean, is there - do you potentially have a position where you might be able to see if that ambulance goes into the emergency room area, where you would see David Sweat on a stretcher or you might actually see the doors of that ambulance open and be able to get an ID, some eyes potentially on that suspect?
CASAREZ: Let me tell you exactly what I'm seeing. The ambulances are already at the door of the emergency room entrance. It's faced - it's facing out so it's back in to that entrance, just as emergency vehicles do when they go to emergency rooms. So taking David Sweat or anyone off of a stretcher to go into the emergency room - I would not be able to see the face of someone. But this ambulance is very similar to one of the two ambulances I saw minutes ago in that - in that procession at a high rate of speed to this medical center. But that ambulance stays there right now with law enforcement now going in and out of that medical center. Now, I am looking right now at (inaudible) maybe a paramedic who's coming out of the emergency entrance near that ambulance - (inaudible) in that ambulance that - walking close by and actually, (inaudible) exposed to the entrance of the emergency room of the hospital. (Inaudible) across the street but it is close. This is a smaller hospital versus a huge hospital with a huge parking lot. We've got law enforcement now shaking hands with other law enforcement, I see, shaking hands...
MALVEAUX: Jean, is it possible... CASAREZ: --(inaudible) but they obviously feel a job has been done here.
MALVEAUX: Jean, is it - if it is possible for you potentially to talk to somebody who might be there, someone who's shaking hands - if that's a congratulations, maybe somebody who might be able to tell us and in fact confirm that David Sweat was in fact in that particular ambulance and has been transported to the emergency room of that - that would be helpful. What I'm hearing from you is that you believe that he is already inside the hospital and potentially being treated?
CASAREZ: So there's a lot of law enforcement here and right now, as you were talking, someone was trying to get into the hospital. They were stopping that person. They had to show their hospital ID. I heard her say that she was from the surgery unit and they allowed her to go in right now. So whether this is a normal shift or someone that has been called in, we don't know. But I can talk to - I can try to talk to some law enforcement here to see if they will tell me anything.
[16:15:04]
As you can imagine, they're all business right here and right now, they're talking amongst each other about the streets that are blockaded off. I see vehicles - emergency law enforcement vehicles down this entire street and may have blockaded it off so people can't be anywhere near here. Luckily, we were one of the first to arrive so we are actually parked in this area. But if we were arriving now, we would not be able to get in.
MALVEAUX: All right. Jean, I want you to hold on with us. Obviously, you're getting information from those who are on the scene. You are right there at that hospital where we believe David Sweat has been transported and potentially being treated at this time. We do know that he has been shot in that last reports is that he is still alive. We're going to be back with more of our breaking news.
Again, the escapee David Sweat - he has been shot. He is alive. He is captured. We're going to have much, much more on this fast-moving, breaking story up ahead after a quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MALVEAUX: Back to our breaking news, escaped inmate David Sweat has been shot by police. He is now in custody. This happened in Constable, New York. This is just two miles south of the Canadian border. Obviously, he was trying to cross to Canada. We've got teams of reporters and guests and experts to talk about this breaking news.
I want to start off with Gary Tuchman. He is on the phone. This is outside the hospital. This is Alice Hyde Medical Center in Malone.
Gary, set the scene for us.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (ON THE PHONE): All right. 'Cause I'm here - so we know - right outside the emergency room at this hospital in Malone, New York. I have been told by a New York state trooper that David Sweat is inside the emergency room as we speak and - very importantly - that no police officers were shot and hurt. We saw two ambulances and about seven police cars racing down the street. We followed them towards the hospital.
[16:20:01]
This officer who told me this - I must tell you - (inaudible) kicking us off the property at the same time he was telling us this so we can't be 100 percent positive that no other officers were shot. This is what he said he's heard but he also said he's heard that Sweat is inside, that this saga hopefully is over. Suzanne?
MALVEAUX: Gary, does he give you any information about his condition - his medical condition, where he was shot, if he was shot multiple times, if he was conscious when he was being brought into the hospital? What kind of treatment he might be undergoing at this moment?
TUCHMAN: This officer - I don't believe was in a position to know his condition. My guess is just from covering stories like this over the years that they're now evaluating his condition. But it does not appear he's dead. We don't know how seriously he's hurt. We can tell you the ambulances were screaming down the street. There were two of them which of course greatly concerned us that there perhaps could be a police officer and/or civilian in the other one. But we're being told by this officer that one of them came here empty, the other one with Sweat, but they were followed by six or seven police cars that were racing down the street.
And as you mentioned before, right down the street from the Canadian border, this town, Constable, is actually the border town when you cross from Quebec into the United States, you're in Constable, New York. We were there yesterday when U.S. authorities were checking all Canada-bound vehicles, checking trucks, to make sure no one was carrying either of these two fugitives. So they'd been on the lookout for the possibility of these two guys trying to get into Canada and it does appear that was the direction Sweat was heading. But right now, Sweat - according to this New York state police officer who just kicked us off the property - is inside the emergency room at the Alice Hyde Medical Center in Malone, New York and as far as he knows, there have been no other people - civilians or police officers - injured.
MALVEAUX: And, Gary, can you describe for us the kind of security - the law enforcement presence that is at that hospital now?
TUCHMAN: Well, as we've been here, more have shown up and that's why we stood here for awhile before they started kicking the public and the news media out. But we're still within about 100 feet of the emergency room. We were just a little closer before. There's a lot of neighbors here, people who seem to be elated that maybe this is over and they don't have to be so scared anymore living in their homes night after night wondering if whether two of these guys would have to come into their homes. There's also members of the news media who are now showing up and it's a situation that where everyone including many of the police officers who are now just coming - they're trying to find out what's going on. But according to this one police (inaudible) who I talked to who came out of the emergency room, Sweat is inside about 100 feet from where we're standing right now.
MALVEAUX: All right. Gary, I'm going to let you go do some reporting. I want to bring in our law enforcement analyst, Tom Fuentes, to join us in this conversation.
And, Tom, these are some critical moments. These are the moments I imagine that law enforcement officials want to keep him alive - that that is important. Walk through what these guys are thinking, what they're doing inside that emergency room.
FUENTES: All right. Now, Suzanne, the police are doing nothing. It's all in the hands of the medical personnel to try and see if they can save him, stabilize him, get him to a point where he recovers and can be interviewed and interrogated at a later time. But right now, they're kind of helpless to wait and see what kind of recovery he can make if it's possible. He may already be dead. We don't know. But that's what they're going to be have to be doing. So the police really - at this point - once they - I mean - they've confirmed it's him, they've confirmed this chase is over, the manhunt is over. Now, they can start recalling all of the other officers and trying to get them back to normal duties or to their days off - if they were off today - and just wait and see what happens with his medical condition. They won't need 1200 officers to babysit him at the hospital.
MALVEAUX: All right. I want to bring in our Jean Casarez who's also there at the hospital.
Jean, what are you seeing? You were right there very close to the emergency room. I imagine there's a big police presence in terms of making sure that there is no one who can get to him while he is being treated but also, you said there were folks who were congratulating each other, perhaps celebrating that this has come to this point that they have captured the second inmate.
CASAREZ: I wouldn't call it "celebrating". I saw one trooper shake hands with another trooper, expressionless. But let me tell you what I just heard. There are officers in the middle of the street stopping anybody who would try to get in here but I heard one officer tell another that they are expecting a delivery of medical equipment and not long before that, whether it was routine or not, there was a woman that was trying to get in and of course, they stopped her. She got out her badge. She was driving her car and she said, "I'm with the surgery unit."
So obviously, we don't know if this is a general shift or if this is someone that was called in but they let her through and she went driving. But right over my shoulder, you can see right here, these are our first pictures. This is the emergency room and I think you can just see the car behind me, the light, and the ambulance is right beyond - as you get into that parking lot - the ambulance has pulled up to the emergency room, face-front, so obviously, the - David Sweat was taken out the back and into that medical center.
[16:25:13]
But we're in the town of Malone and we were headed toward a very small town that - Constable - which is actually three miles from the Canadian border. So you can see even here, we are close to the Canadian border. But the law enforcement presence here is extremely strong. I also heard they are expecting an open ambulance - which may have nothing to do with this case. But also they did say they are expecting medical equipment to arrive at this medical center here in Malone. Suzanne?
MALVEAUX: And, Gary - and now, Gary Tuchman just told us according to a source from - that he has spoken to that he does not believe any law enforcement officials were injured in the capture of Sweat. Is that the same thing yet you're hearing or seeing? Have you seen any other ambulance arrive? Anybody else being transported, taken to this hospital, or anybody else who might have mentioned whether or not there was someone who was injured or shot in his apprehension?
CASAREZ: Well, that's very good news that Gary is here. And what I visually saw in the procession that was going at a very high rate of speed with law enforcement officers and they were coming for the hospital, I did see two ambulances. But it doesn't mean that two ambulances both had patients in it. They could have taken two ambulances to be on the scene to be ready. But there were two ambulances that came. There is only one ambulance that has pulled off to the back of the emergency room.
The other ambulance - and I think we might be able to pan so we can see this - this is an ambulance right over here and I can't tell you it was the second one in the procession that I saw but that is very similar to the two ambulances that I saw. One is out on the street, one is right up against the emergency room. And as you can see right there, these live pictures can show us the law enforcement presence out in the middle of the street. Law enforcement officer on his walkie talkie. And that is the officer that I heard say to another, "We are expecting medical equipment to come in here." And these roads are blocked off. There are people from the community that have heard what is happening so there is a community presence right here standing around - people with their iPhones. This is obviously a moment for this community too because they have waited for this moment. They don't have to feel endangered anymore as they were for the last three weeks. I see smiles on some of these people's - can I talk to you for a second? I mean, how do you feel that David Sweat has been captured?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE RESIDENT: I'll be able to sleep better, be able to sleep with my doors unlocked like I used to.
CASAREZ: What has it been like for the last three weeks.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE RESIDENT: It's been hectic. It's been really scary. You don't know what's going to happen next. You don't know where he is. You don't know what he's - what's he - his plans are. You don't know what his next move is. You don't know what he's up to. You don't know what he's thinking. You never know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE RESIDENT: It's a safer community. Now the kids can go back to playing like they used to, you know? It's all about the kids' safety but that's it. Safety.
CASAREZ: 1300 law enforcement were out today to find this one person. How does this community feel about that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE RESIDENT: I've seen some of the guys down at Constable 'cause that's where my mother-in-law lives and they're doing their job. I commend them. I - they did a great job. The community came together, pitched in to get them hot coffee, stuff they needed. It's (inaudible) they did an excellent job.
CASAREZ: And the procession seemed to be coming from Constable. We're hearing that it's very close to the Canadian border. How close?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE RESIDENT: About three to five miles the most. Like from where they got him, it's about three miles - from what I heard.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE RESIDENT: Probably nearer than that. Probably like two miles from my mom's place. And then my mom - she's an EMT and she got a call and she went but I'm glad that he was found.
CASAREZ: So your mother is an EMT and she got a call saying what?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE RESIDENT: That she was on the bus and that they found him and that he was down. So she went on the call as an EMT and I'm pretty sure that she was on the ambulance and that she's here at the hospital with them.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE RESIDENT: That's the only reason I'm standing outside because it's cold.
CASAREZ: All right. Well, thank you for talking with us and we're happy for you. You and your children can now be safe. Thank you.
So we're right here at the hospital and as you can see, Suzanne, inside is the person that for three weeks, there has been a manhunt for. The condition - it is raining, it is dark, it is probably some of the worst conditions you could have for a hunt and a search but the community is elated that they can now feel safe again and so we're appreciative to every single one of those 1300 officers - federal, state, and local level - that captured David Sweat.
MALVEAUX: Oh, yes. Jean, I mean, you can see it in their faces. I mean, just in their body language, the relief that they have there that they got the second suspect.
[16:30:01]
I want to bring in a former FBI special agent Jonathan Gilliam to talk about the fact that he two miles from the Canadian border, just two miles south of the Canadian border. You've got 1,300 law enforcement folks who were involved in this man hunt, in this search. And he was just that shy of crossing the border. When you take a look at this, does that mean success to you or does that look like this is something that really didn't -- didn't work out so well? They just got to the very edge before it could have been over the border and free?
JONATHAN GILLIAM, FORMER FBI SPECIAL AGENT: Well, Canada is involved in this search. So I don't think he would have gotten over the border and just been free. I think he actually messed up by going north, because law enforcement was anticipating that move. He probably would have been better off going south, and I think ultimately that's one of the things that did him in.
One thing I'd like to find out if possible is what trauma level this hospital is, because I'll tell you, one thing we definitely learned -- I spent time in the FBI and also in the SEAL teams in the Navy. One thing that they always stress is that if you get shot, you know, especially in the FBI, if there's a hospital that's not a level one, you bypass that and go straight to a level one trauma center, because your chances of surviving a gunshot wound increases dramatically. So that may be the reason why they're bringing in extra equipment. If that's not the case, I wouldn't be surprised if he is moved very quickly to a level one trauma center if that gunshot wound is critical.
MALVEAUX: I want to bring in Gary Tuchman, who just spoke to two police officers. Gary, what are you learning from those individuals there who are at the hospital about what has taken place?
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Two more police officers just came out of the emergency room. They reiterated to me what the other New York state troopers told me about 15 minutes ago, that no police officers were shot. Which is a great relief considering the fact of the vulnerabilities, guy like Sweat, who knows he has nothing to lose and may or may not have a gun, and the fact that we saw two ambulances racing down the street surrounded by police cars on each side of them. So now we talk to three police officers who told us the same thing, no police officers were shot. I asked him about Sweat's condition. That question, these guys would not answer. If he indeed is dead or is not seriously hurt, it's not something the police want to say. They want that information to come from the hospital. We'll continue to try to dig on that. At this point, the good news, it did not appear any police officers or any civilians were hurt during this operation.
MALVEAUX: That certainly is good news considering how dangerous this man is. Gary, do we know how it happened? Do those officers have any sense of how many people had eyes on him, whether or not he went down without a fight? How the spotted him? Do they have any sense of when they actually confronted him?
TUCHMAN: They may have hurt him directly, but if they have, they're not telling us. These three police officers I talked to were not part of the operation. They were summoned to the hospital after Sweat was sent here in the ambulance. So nobody knows what's going on in this hospital. All they know firsthand, we can tell you what you were talking about with your guest, this is a very small hospital. If he is seriously hurt, there's a very good possibility they would have to take him somewhere else. That could be what Jean's talking about with the medical equipment needed. But at this point, he's still here in the ambulance that he came in sitting outside the emergency room door.
MALVEAUX: And Gary, you also said earlier today that there were two separate ambulances that came. But you believe that second one was empty, so it really is just David Sweat who's there.
TUCHMAN: Right. That second one -- one ambulance is sitting next to the emergency room door, and the other one is parked about 25 feet away and no one came in or out of it. So it appears the other one was empty, and it makes perfect sense to send a number of ambulances to the scene so you're ready, in case there are other injuries. But it appears, and the one thing that we must emphasize this is a fast- moving story. It appears at this point only one person was hurt and that person they've been looking for the last three weeks, David Sweat.
MALVEAUX: Ok, Gary. We'll let you go do some reporting. I want to bring in Matthew Horace into the conversation, Former ATF Agent. And Matthew, when you see what has taken place here, you have one dead, you have one who is now being treated in this hospital shot, how important is it as somebody who is in law enforcement to keep this man alive?
MATTHEW HORACE, FORMER ATF AGENT: Well, I think, you know, any time we shoot someone, our first responsibility is to get them medical attention. And that's what you see happening right now at the hospital. So you're going to see several things develop. He's going to be getting medical attention. We don't know the extent of his injuries, but we'll learn that in the next couple hours or so hopefully. Then you're going to see local, and state, and federal law enforcement galvanize and come up with a security plan at the hospital. Because he still presents a significant risk dependent on the level of his injuries. At that point, hopefully, hopefully he'll start to recover from his injuries, we'll get somebody in there for a bedside interview, and over time he'll be arraigned, either in the hospital or in a court of law.
MALVEAUX: Now you said he's still a potential risk. How so?
HORACE: Well, he's a potential risk by virtue of where we are today. If he's not injured badly, we have to make sure that he has adequate security in that hospital between private security, state and local and federal officers. And I can assure you that our law enforcement will put the appropriate resources in that hospital or elsewhere as deemed necessary.
[16:35:19]
MALVEAUX: And Matthew, just to follow up here. You were saying that you believe that it could be a potential risk, a flight risk. But that's very unlikely considering the level of police presence that's there.
HORACE: Right. It's very unlikely. What I'm suggesting is that will be a part of the overall operational profile to make sure that we have enough security on site, to ensure that he doesn't try to make a break, depending on what his condition is.
MALVEAUX: All right. Matthew, thank you very much. I want to bring Jean back, who is actually there right outside of the hospital. I understand Jean, you're getting more information?
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we're learning a little bit more about this medical center. It is an acute care facility, 75-bed hospital, obviously a small hospital. But it is the local hospital. And I have not seen yet that medical equipment that I heard one trooper tell another that was coming in. We haven't seen that yet. But the crowd continues to grow here from the community. They are elated that now this second inmate, David Sweat, is no longer a risk to their safety. And as Gary Tuchman was saying, I want to show you the pictures. Look behind me here because as you can see, that ambulance, one of two ambulances is out in the street. But that is one of the two ambulances, at least identical in nature that I saw in the procession that was at a high rate of speed coming from Constable toward Malone and this hospital.
The other ambulance is in the parking lot of the hospital as I said, with the back end toward the entrance of the emergency room, as you would expect to transport a patient out of it. And as you can see, there's even more law enforcement presence now just guarding the entrance to the emergency room. Now, I haven't even any other hospital personnel come except one woman who showed her credentials, that she was with surgery, and they allowed her to go in there. But roads are blocked off along way. Now you couldn't drive into this hospital if you wanted to. And this is a community, and this is an emergency room that other people in the community may need. But, you know, can we pan over this direction? We're seeing so many people from the community. So how do you all feel that David Sweat is no longer a concern to your safety today? What about you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm glad it's over with.
CASAREZ: Yeah, what was it like the last three weeks?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's miserable. I had to drive to work every day and cops all over. Didn't know when we were going to get stopped. Ready for it be done with.
CASAREZ: Right, because you didn't know where he was. I just see the elation in your eyes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, very scary, very scary.
CASAREZ: What about the gratitude to law enforcement?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was very appreciative everything they did for everybody, made us all safe.
CASAREZ: Your thoughts on David Sweat? Why don't you step out a little bit. Your thoughts on David Sweat?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm just glad it's over. I'm happy they got him alive so they can get some answers.
CASAREZ: And what answers would you like to know about?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to know who else helped him in the jail. I think that's probably the most important thing right now is to find out who may have had a hand in their escape.
CASAREZ: What does it do to this community? This is a hundred-year facility. I mean 1845, is when Clinton Correctional was built, in 100 years, they never had a breakout like this and now they did. What does it do to those of you that are part of the correction community here?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My father worked at Clinton Correctional. He retired there after 37 years. He was very proud of the heritage that they never had an escape. So for this to have happened and under our watch is very upsetting for the law enforcement community.
CASAREZ: And to the history of the state and to the history of Clinton, all right. Thank you so much for joining us. As you can see, word spread very quickly that this community was the recipient of David Sweat at their emergency room and their medical center. And right now, he's there. We're waiting to see if any medical equipment comes or if he would be transported out. But at this point, medical personnel are assisting this -- this inmate. A life-termer that is still alive, we believe. But obviously, captured and taken down by law enforcement.
MALVEAUX: Jean thanks. It's very clear that they are absolutely relieved that this has happened, and that's a good thing. We're joined on the phone by Audra Buchanan, she's a resident of Constable, New York. And Audra, my god, you said it was pretty unnerving to know that he was that close, so, so close in your community.
AUDRA BUCHANAN, RESIDENT, CONSTABLE, NEW YORK: Absolutely. We were so nervous. I mean we've had our house locked down for the last couple weeks just knowing the fact that there was people out there with no regard for human life, are just hanging around houses with places with small children. And not being able to go any where without thinking are they around the next corner.
[16:40:14]
MALVEAUX: What has life been like for you for the last three weeks? I mean do you have children? Did your kids have to stay inside where the school was closed? I mean what was your house -- did you feel like you were on lockdown?
BUCHANAN: Pretty much. We have a little girl. She's going to be nine in August. And the poor little thing has been wanting to go outside and play for so long. We'd make sure we were out there with her at all times to make sure that nobody was creeping around in the woods or hiding out in the shed somewhere, just always keeping an constant eye on her. It's just feeling so unnerved. It's been nerve racking.
MALVEAUX: Do you have an alarm on your house? Are the houses in that area alarmed or is it pretty much lock your doors and kind of hope for the best?
BUCHANAN: No, actually, it's quite the opposite around here. It's such a quiet community. Nothing really ever happens around here. Nobody really locked their doors at night, nobody really locks their cars up, we don't really think about that. But we all look out for each other while we're out here. We're pretty safe in that respect. As soon as we saw all these search teams, and border patrol and everyone else showing up, we're thinking, oh, my god, this is really happening in our community. It's so surreal.
MALVEAUX: And today, I imagine just a sigh of relief.
BUCHANAN: An incredible sigh of relief. We didn't happen to hear anything until we heard the sirens and we saw the border patrol, the troopers and two ambulances go flying by the house. And I said, oh, my gosh, is he really that close. He can't be. How did he get all the way out here? It just seems so insane. And sure enough, probably about 20 minutes ago, the troopers were all starting to leave and the border patrols were leaving. Then we heard on your news channel that he was in an ambulance and transported to Alice Hyde, and we just took a huge sigh of relief going, oh my god, thank god.
MALVEAUX: And Audra finally, what are you going to tell your nine year old little girl?
BUCHANAN: I'm going to tell her that she can actually go outside and play as soon as it stops raining.
MALVEAUX: Ok, there's a bad man who is in custody. I can't imagine what you guys have been going through the last three weeks. Audra, thank you so much for sharing your story. I want to bring in our own Polo Sandoval, who is on the phone but he has been out there in that area that they have been searching the 22 square mile area, where they have been for the last couple of days. What have you learned?
POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There's about a 20-mile stretch of about -- 30 from Malone, the town of Malone over to the Trout River Crossing, which is the way to get into Canada, for the people here in upstate New York. What we're looking at here -- we're standing at one of these police roadblocks that have been set up. It's basically turning traffic around for people who are trying to get into Canada for the most part. We've only seen a select few actually get through the police barricade.
We're basically right between the town of Malone and that Canadian crossing, which is again, not far from where this arrest apparently -- or this reportedly happen. So what we're seeing now are several people now dealing with these roadblocks. Only a few individuals have been able to get through, being able to prove that they actually live there. But aside from that, Suzanne, we're seeing it's just flurry of police activity, state, local, federal police coming and going at this point, talking to a few people here as they're being stopped on the road. Asking them if they mind this, they clearly do not, they said if it means bringing this to a closure, this is the final chapter, they're ok with waiting on the side of the road for a bit, Suzanne.
MALVEAUX: Yeah, and Polo, I want to bring this to your attention as well and to our viewers. We're just getting this in now, CNN confirming that Sweat was shot twice. This was in an open field by a New York state trooper. That has been confirmed. We have just learned that new detail that he in fact was shot twice in an open field. This is from a New York state trooper. Polo, do we get a sense that people are still in that area? Have they disbursed from the search area? Are they telling people this is over, it's done, we can now focus in on Sweat at the hospital? They don't suspect that there is anybody in that neighborhood who could have helped them in any way, that they are done?
SANDOVAL: I can tell you we have seen several state troopers, several state trooper vehicles drive out of the area presumably heading perhaps closer to the hospital. As for the actual search area, which is interesting too, if you look at the map, you'll see that the small town of Malone, which is the center of the search here, and then you look south which is where we've been bringing some of those live images, the last couple of days, really, the focus of the investigation. Well now, this is actually going down on the north side of the town of Malone. So several people here quite surprised this happened so close to their doorstep. I can see the troopers speaking to a few of the neighbors that do appear to be relieved.
But again, at this point, we're just seeing a huge -- just amount of police officers come and go from the region presumably heading towards the hospital, or at least also heading out to the scene. I should point out though, probably about five minutes ago, I did see a tractor-trailer with several ATV's and, also several unmarked police units heading towards the scene of where this arrest apparently went down. Clearly, what we do expect that to be treated as the crime scene. They'll want to get the right equipment, the right vehicles into the area, which is very similar to what we saw Friday in the moments following the shooting of this alleged accomplice, Richard Matt.
[16:45:32]
MALVEAUX: All right. Polo, thank you. I want to bring in Former U.S. Marshall, Matthew Fogg. Couple questions for you. First of all, the detail that we just learned that Sweat was shot twice, it was in an open field by a New York state trooper, what does that say to you in terms of whether or not he went without a fight, whether or not he was armed and the circumstances surround his surrender?
MATTHEW FOGG, CHIEF DEPUTY U.S. MARSHALL (RET.): Well, it says that the state trooper obviously confronted him. And it appears that he didn't comply with everything the state trooper wanted him to do. And that's probably the reason why the state trooper went to imminent danger. But the bottom line is he was able to shoot him and take him into custody. Then what they're going to do now, they're clearly going to make that whole area a police close off area, make certain that nobody else comes in that area, and they can really track this guy, follow how he even got to that location.
MALVEAUX: What are they looking for? What kind of valuable information would they get from this open field or even from this route that he has been traveling for the last couple of days and even going further back the last couple of weeks?
FOGG: That's right, Suzanne. That's so important to see the route that he traveled, maybe if he left any clues, if he took anything from any of those cabins up there, anybody helped him. Maybe they dropped some things along the way. Everything to try to trace back his route, where he actually started from or left from that point, and traced it all the way back as far as they can to see where him and Sweat actually -- Matt actually got together and maybe even separated.
MALVEAUX: Tom Fuentes, I want to bring you in here, our CNN Law Enforcement Analyst. Why is that important for us to learn that, to retrace that trail even from the very beginning? What does law enforcement learn from that?
TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, I think one thing will be whether or not they had others involved with them, even along the way. You know verify at this point that Sweat from the time he separated from Matt, was alone, and didn't have any other assistance. I think another point to bring up is that they may have gone in other cabins, and broke into them and those might not be discovered until hunting season. People own these cabins sometimes and they only go up. So depending on which animal is in season, some people might not discover that their cabin was broken into until October, November this year when they go to check their cabin and all of a sudden realize someone was in it, someone messed it up. And it could turn out to be one or both of them. So there are a lot of answers that are still to be had in this particular case, and it will take a long time to get them.
MALVEAUX: I want to bring Former FBI Special Agent, Jonathan Gilliam. And I have a question here, because I wonder -- to Tom's point, if there are cabins that were broken into before, are it possible that maybe Sweat or even Matt previously might have injured somebody in a cabin, that you might have a victim somewhere in this community that they might have hurt people along the way? Or is that something that police and law enforcement have just ruled out?
GILLIAM: No, I don't think they've ruled that out. In fact, I think it would be really wise of people that are hearing this broadcast to have loved ones up in that area that maybe live in some of these remote cabins to reach out to them and see if they can get in touch with them. And I think that would be a wise thing for local law enforcement to look into as well. That's a great question. From the very beginning, I've been saying that people need to be in contact, because again, these were murderers. We know they were in one cabin. The likelihood of them going to other cabins is pretty high. And if anybody was in there, it's so remote there that they could have easily killed somebody and nobody would even know it.
MALVEAUX: Jonathan is there a formal process for law enforcement to do that, to actually have a log if you will, of a neighborhood and have people check in. Say, you know what, we have scoured the neighborhood and we know for sure that all of these people in this community are safe and accounted for?
GILLIAM: Well, hopefully as I've been saying all along, the command post in this situation is very, very important. And the way that things are catalogued and cleared is utmost importance in how this thing moves smoothly and quickly. And now you'll see that it's going to be an even bigger issue because of this question that you've asked. Did they catalogue all these different houses and cabins as they moved through them? I hope that's the case, because if it's not, you know, eventually if something did happen, it may take a while before it gets out. And hopefully, somebody is not injured sitting in one of those cabins.
MALVEAUX: All right. Thank you. I want to bring in Jean Casarez, who is right outside the medical facility. Jean, are you learning more about the state of Sweat, and whether or not he's going to be transported to another medical facility?
[16:50:01]
CASAREZ: Well, here's what we're watching for. We're watching for any type of helicopter that would come here, because to be medevaced, you normally are helicoptered. So we're watching for that. We don't see a helicopter. At this point, it's just sort of status quo. The law enforcement is still right here. They're not moving. They're not talking. We were able to confirm though, with the hospital on the record, that no law enforcement officers at all were injured in all of this, which is a blessing. One other thing I wanted to tell you. You know, we were right at the 22-square-mile perimeter where that search is going on very close to where Richard Matt was shot on Friday. We heard about something happening in Constable.
So we immediately put on our GPS to get there. And it was a 14-mile drive. We almost did reach Constable when I saw that caravan of ambulances and police vehicles. But 14 miles was the distance from the 22-square-foot area where that search was because of all that activity in the cabins and everything to Cons table. And we also heard in the press conference the other day, that it was believed that both inmates intended to go to Canada. It was believed also that if they didn't have encumbrances that they would be able to walk 10 miles per day. So this is 14 miles away from that area, which is just an interesting note right there. But we are outside of the hospital. There has been no movement. I'm sure a lot of movement is inside. I asked the public information officer if there was going to be surgery. She had no comment. She said the hospital may respond later with a statement. So we're waiting for that at this point.
MALVEAUX: All right. Jean, thank you so much, excellent reporting. We want to go to 14 miles away. That is where our Correspondent, Polo Sandoval is. He is live in Constable where Sweat was apprehended. Give us a sense of how the community is responding at this point. I imagine that people are coming out of their homes and there is an incredible sense of relief and perhaps even surprise that he was in their neighborhood.
SANDOVAL: You know, the people -- it's very rural part for the people here in upstate New York. So we're not seeing a whole lot of individuals on the doorstep of their homes. What we are noticing though is the traffic that's making its way north, towards the Canadian border is pretty much being turned around. You would imagine it would be quite an inconvenience for people trying to get into Canada which is only 15 miles north of here. During the process of turning their vehicles around, I have spoken to a couple. They said it's not an inconvenience if it means closing this chapter finally, bringing this to an end. What we have noticed though is that some individuals have been let
through. These are folks that are able to show their identification and prove that they actually live in and around the town of Constable. But again, Suzanne, what I can tell you are here just north of the town of Malone, which is really the opposite end of where much of the search had been focused, is fairly quiet at this point. We do see police activity come in waves. We've also seen what appeared to be all-terrain vehicles that were loaded on flatbeds being driven towards the actual scene where this arrest went down, clearly that will now be considered a crime scene as they essentially try to retrace David Sweat's steps. Clearly, Suzanne, if he's able to survive this, a lot of information will come from him, and also what he left behind in this rural part of upstate New York.
MALVEAUX: And Polo, the fact that he was so close to the Canadian border, and they apprehended him, we know that the Canadian officials are also involved in this man hunt. Have you seen some of those Canadian officials where you are, because this has been a collective, it's been a joint effort. Obviously they knew that he was heading in that direction, or at least they suspect that he was heading in that direction. And you had all the forces coming together to make sure that he wasn't going to get away.
SANDOVAL: You know not from our vantage point, Suzanne. I can tell you that we are seeing just an incredible number of New York state police in and around the area, making their way past the checkpoint. As for Canadian officials, we believe they are likely closer to the border if they actually would have crossed the international boundary. Typically that doesn't happen very often in investigations. But clearly, this has been a case in which officials not only from New York State, but also from neighboring states and neighboring countries have been work together. So that's a very real possibility.
MALVEAUX: All right. I want to thank you so much, Polo. We are joined on the phone by Erik Jensen. He's a former Clinton Correctional Facility Inmate, who actually knew David Sweat. You knew him personally. Would he go down without a fight here?
ERIK JENSEN, CLINTON CORRECTIONAL INMATE WHO KNEW DAVID SWEAT: I do not believe that he would go down without a fight. I'm surprised that law enforcement wasn't engaged with him in actually a gunfight. And I'm really happy that nobody was injured. There was also another question that was brought up earlier about how there were no prior crimes or anybody was injured. And I think that's a great question, and I think they really need to investigate that. Because I'm surprised that nobody was injured along their way of escape.
MALVEAUX: What does David want? He escaped prison, he's been out for three weeks. But now he's potentially -- if he survives this, he's going right back in.
JENSEN: He's going back, and he's going back to worse conditions. He's going back to 23 hours in his cell, never leaving it. You have a shower in your cell. You have a sliding door in the back, it opens up and you walk out into sort of like a dog kennel. You spend your hour outside in a dog kennel. You come back in, and that's it. You won't see the sun until the next day. I do believe that whether he survives this or whether he passes away, he's not going to tell any information. I don't believe that he will open his mouth and speak to any law enforcement agencies.
MALVEAUX: All right. I want to bring in Gary Tuchman. You have got new information.
TUCHMAN: Yes. I've talked to a couple hospital employees who just come out of the building. Once again, like the police officers, they don't want their names used, but they are telling us that they have been told that David Sweat is conscious. We don't know how seriously hurt he is, but we know that he's not dead. That he's conscious. I also wanted to tell you, you were just asking Polo about the Canadian border about -- is there any sight of Canadian police. What I could tell you is the other day we were at the border station in Constable which is about 2 miles from where Sweat was shot.
And we actually drove over the border into Quebec and just on the other side of the border to see if we saw police action outside. There may have been undercover action. We saw not one Canadian police officer doing anything. That being said, it's a totally agricultural area. It's not forested there. It's very open. So it would be unlikely that Sweat would've hidden there. But we can tell you that the U.S. usually when you drive from the U.S. into Canada, you're checked by Canadian border patrol. You're not checked out in U.S. when you leave the country. But everybody who is going through that border station had their trunks opened in the cars inspected to make sure they weren't carrying either of these two guys, just before Matt was shot. That border station we were at, two miles away is where this all ended for David Sweat.
MALVEAUX: And Gary, and since we know he's conscious, do we know that he's going to be transported to another hospital or facility? Or do you have any information whether or not he's going to stay there and be treated there?
TUCHMAN: It depends how seriously hurt he is. This is not a trauma center. And there's a helicopter pad near this hospital. But if he's not critical or seriously hurt, this is a good hospital, we're being told, the Alice Hyde Medical Center, he would stay here, yes.
[16:55:01]
MALVEAUX: All right, Gary, thank you very much. I want to go back to Jonathan Gilliam, here to -- if you will summarize for us where we are at this point. Because we have someone who has been shot twice in an open field by a New York state trooper, David Sweat who is in the emergency room at this moment, at this hour, and a lot of people who want to know how this happened, how they got that far and whether or not he will be returned and returned rather quickly back to that facility, and if that facility is ready to even take him regarding all of the mishaps and the way things were handled in this escape.
GILLIAM: Let's look at a couple things here, real quick, Suzanne. One of the things again as Tom Fuentes, and everybody else that's in law enforcement has said, it's of the utmost importance to give him the proper medical care. That's the way we work in this country. Even though he's a criminal and a murderer who's wasted millions of millions of dollars and put this community at great risk, we're going to give him the medical attention he needs to stay alive.
That being said, your previous guest, Erik, I don't know what his last name was, it was a prisoner with him, I can disagree with him on one thing. Erik had never been on the run like this, this miserable in these types of conditions. And he said that he didn't think that Sweat would talk. We have educated interrogators that can come in and -- skilled interrogators, interviewers that can come in, and now give Sweat an environment that is friendly, can give him an environment that is warm. And give him an environment that lets him let his guard down. If they can get him, you know, his medical treatment taken care of, and we can get him stabilized, we can then put him in an environment to talk. I think they'll be able to get information out of him.
MALVEAUX: All right. Jonathan Gilliam, and thank to all our reporters, our experts over the last hour who have been able to dissect this. Again, David Sweat, 35 years old, the second suspect, who escaped from the Clinton Correctional Facility, he has been captured, he has been shot twice, he's been hospitalized and being treated now. We're going to have more of this breaking news. We'll be following it.
You are in the CNN NEWSROOM. And Poppy Harlow is in New York, who will pick it up from here.
