Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsroom
Second Prison Break Fugitive Shot Twice & Captured Alive. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired June 28, 2015 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00] DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Clearly, they wanted to get into Canada. He shot at that camper van, and this was the huge break that everybody was waiting for. He needed to shot at that camper van to try to slow it down, OK? If he shot at a wheel, it would have been done, if he shot at it in such a way that the driver went off the road, that also would have been a problem.
So, they shot at or Richard Matt shot at that camper van in a way to potentially disable it or at least get driver to stop, full out and look at what was going on there. He could have easily taken that camper van, you know, basically carjack it had he been able to, but the driver had no idea that he'd even been shot. He called 911, he said, I've heard gunshots, and then he drove fro a couple more miles until he got out, and said, oh my goodness, we were hit.
POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Just so extraordinary to see what's unfolded in the last 48 hours, both of these men no longer at risk to their community there. Guys, thank you very much. Stay with me.
Let's reset for all of you just joining us.
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
HARLOW: Six o'clock Eastern. I'm Poppy Harlow, joining you live from New York this Sunday evening.
And we want to bring you an update on our breaking news. Fugitive Sweat has been captured. He was on the lam for 23 days and this is the first we have seen of him since he escaped from that maximum security prison.
Our Deborah Feyerick obtaining this photo taken moments after he was shot, but not killed, and apprehended by New York state troopers. Twenty-three days, that is how long he was on the run, taken into police custody, just two miles from the Canadian border.
We have just learned the name of the officer who shot Sweat. His name is Sergeant Jay Cook. You're looking at the picture of him there. Sergeant Jay Cook with the New York state police.
At this very moment, Sweat is being treated inside of this hospital in Malone, New York. He'd been spotted at 3:20 this afternoon walking by himself along a road, in the middle of the day. He was later shot by Sergeant Jay Cook who is riding a roving patrol vehicle.
Sweat, we're told, began to run through a field. That is when he was shot twice. But again, he was not killed. He has been taken alive. His condition unknown at this hour.
Coming up this hour, New York Governor Andrew Cuomo joining police to give an update on the capture of David Sweat.
Jean Casarez on the ground in front of the hospital.
Jean, what are you learning? And how are the people in that community reacting to this news?
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, David Sweat continues to be right inside the hospital behind me. This is the Alice Hyde Medical Center. This is in the village of Malone in Upstate New York.
We were on our way to Constable because we had heard that something was coming down and we saw a caravan on the road, going at excessively high rate of speed. New York state police vehicles, along with two ambulances. We know at that point that something was really happening. And one of those ambulances came right in here to the emergency room and pulled right up and took in who we now have confirmed to be David Sweat.
So, everyone is sitting her, just waiting to see what is going to happen next. I did see some employees coming in from the hospital, showing their badges to the get into the parking lot. I heard one woman say she was from surgery as she went inside. We were able to confirm to the hospital that no law enforcement officers at all were shot. None of them were injured.
So, those two ambulances that I saw in that caravan, one protectively was coming in. But we're just waiting to see now what happened and what condition David Sweat is in -- Poppy.
HARLOW: Jean, question for you. Just the people around you, I know earlier you were speaking to a lot of them and some of these are people who said, I never used to have locked my doors and I was scared for myself and my family. What kind of relief are they experiencing now?
CASAREZ: Their jubilation was absolutely amazing and their gratitude to law enforcement. We're in a media staging area now because we believe that the hospital maybe making a statement shortly.
But when I was out on the streets and the community was just coming, they heard the news and they came because they wanted to see for themselves what was happening. They said that for the last three weeks, they have lived in fear. They've lived in fear for their families and for their children. And now, they feel safe again, and there was so much gratitude on the behalf of these people for the federal law enforcement state and local, to come in and to help them.
They know that they have been searching for them night and day and I spoke with someone that live about a block in Constable area from where he was found, and just couldn't believe that this person was found so close to their doorstep. And I also want to tell you, Poppy, because we were in that 22 square mile radius where they were searching for him and as we drove, it was 14 miles. So, that's approximately the distance from where Matt was shot to where David Sweat was found, 14 miles.
[18:05:00] HARLOW: And it continues to beg the question, where these two men together, for how long and where they together when Richard Matt was shot and killed on Friday late afternoon?
Jean Casarez, thank you very much. Stay with me. Do let us know if anyone from the hospital does come out to speak and give a press conference.
Meantime, you're looking at an exclusive picture obtained by CNN's Deborah Feyerick, the first time anyone had seen, image of David Sweat since he and Richard Matt escaped from that maximum security prison in Dannemora, New York, 23 days ago.
Tom Fuentes, former FBI assistant director, former police officer, with me, now from Washington.
Tom Fuentes, the fact that they were able to apprehend him and not kill him.
TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, Poppy, we don't know for sure if that was, you know, outstanding, aimed by that police officer of if he was shooting to possibly kill him and that's the best he could do hit him in the legs, or the hips or wherever lower back area that he got himself. We don't know that it was absolutely intentional to be able to take him alive. We just know that that officer would want him stopped before he could get back into the thick woods.
But I'd like to ask also, you're talking about the population up there being relieved, but the people also that are very relieved in this would be the governor of New York, the head of the New York state correctional system, the head of the Clinton correctional facility, because these two animals posed a threat to the citizens and law enforcement community of New York for three weeks and it happened on their watch.
So, I think there's going to be a lot of questions now going back, now that the main siege is over from them, is to go back and say, how did you let this happen? How did you turn that prison, which is supposed to be able to keep these guys in custody for life, into a situation where they could just pop the hatch and go out?
HARLOW: Right. Yes, I interviewed the governor of New York, Andrew Cuomo, this morning actually, before all of this went down. But we talked a lot about the investigation. We're going to play that for you a little bit later this hour so you can hear about his feelings and the investigation that he has ordered into this prison.
He kept reminding me, look, no one has broken out before these guys in 100 years. But, yes, indeed, he and everyone else very concerned that it could happen at all.
Tom, stay with me.
Deborah, to you, I know you're working your sources here on set. But tell me what you have uncovered.
FEYERICK: Well, again, the big question is, were the two individuals together when the shooting in that camper van took place? That's going to be under investigation. What we do know is that he was shot twice. It appears that David Sweat was shot in the back about 3:20 this afternoon when someone identified him on the road.
The trooper who took him down, Jay Cook. Initial reports was he was in custody. It was unclear if he was dead or alive. It turns out he is alive.
And clearly, surgeons and emergency workers were going to work as hard as they can to keep him alive because he's still got a lot of important information that he could provide to authorities.
Also, he would be instrumental in making a case potentially against Joyce Mitchell and anybody else who may have knowingly and willingly helped these two men escaped. There were so many unanswered questions, including, you know, how they were able to get out from that manhole cover. So, as you mentioned earlier, they were on foot.
If David Sweat knew that Richard Matt had been shot and killed and if he was able to run, one of the reasons he may have been on one of sort of these fire breaks between two areas of forest sort of the contains the flames in the event there is a fire, if he was on an open fire breaks, it could have been he was moving as fast as he possibly could through almost impossible terrain to get to the Canadian border.
There is agreement, sort of integrated intel and criminal intelligence between the Canadian authorities and U.S. authorities. It's unclear whether New York police and federal authorities would have had to identify evidence to the fact that they were heading in that direction. You've got the border, which is a lot of different sensors along the trail. But that's where the two men were going.
And some of our other experts pointed out the fact he had shaved his beard, his goatee. So, whether, you know, we don't know what he's wearing under the camouflage gear. But you can see him sitting up, the blood on the front there. It's drenching the jacket as well. But he clearly swapped out his prison gear and anything that was identifiable in order to dawn a different costume effectively, something he could hide in.
HARLOW: Matthew Horace to you, when you look at someone who's willing camouflage, who was on the run for three weeks, how surprised are you that he was just 30 miles from the prison he escaped from? And does that tell you there likely was no plan B? That the fact that Joyce Mitchell didn't show up to pick up the two guys, as was allegedly plan, that there was no plan B?
MATTHEW HORACE, SR. VICE PRESIDENT, FJC SECURITY SERVICES: I think early on we were thinking there may have been a plan B. I think this validates for us that he got stood up and he had to hit the woods, and that's exactly what he did.
[18:10:03] The fact that he had camouflage on just gives us reason to believe that he had another way to cover his tracks and movements through the woods during the entire time. My biggest concern now is this investigation is a long way from being over. We still need to determine what were the conditions that led to the security breach, we still have to determine if anyone else was hurt while these two men were on the run.
HARLOW: That's very good point, Jonathan Gilliam. I mean, your take on that? This is a very densely wooded area, a lot of these camping cabins. Some people go to these alone to go hunting, right? I mean, there is still, you were saying, some concern that other people could have been injured.
JONATHAN GILLIAM, FORMER NAVY SEAL: Right. This is where -- Matthew can tell you this. You know, running a command post is so vital in this situation. They have to catalog everything they search, all the leads that come in and go out to make sure they've cleared these places because now, if they have not cleared these certain cabins, there could be something who's fatally or even worse, wounded, suffering there, could have tied up.
You know, these individuals were murderers. And as you can see in the way that they were desperate to go away, and to your point earlier about Matt shooting at that vehicle, I can only think that he was possibly trying to get the guy to get out of his vehicle so he could kill him.
And same thing with Ms. Mitchell, if she had gone through with this and actually taken them and we were saying from the beginning, I can almost guarantee you, she would have been killed as well.
HARLOW: Yes. All right, guys, thank you very much. Stay with me, Deborah Feyerick, Matthew Horace, Jonathan Gilliam, all our team, team coverage.
We're going to take a quick break. On the other side, more of our breaking news -- this man, David Sweat, apprehended by authorities. But he is alive. Will he talk? What is his condition?
We're going to get a press conference from New York state police in about 30 minutes time. We'll bring it to you live. Stay with us here, breaking news on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:16:09] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
HARLOW: Welcome back.
We continue to follow the breaking news here in New York on that manhunt in Upstate New York where escaped killer David Sweat has been captured. He has been captured alive by New York state police. We are waiting a press conference from New York Governor Andrew Cuomo and local authorities. That is expected to begin in about half an hour time, right around 6:45 Eastern Time. We will, of course, carry it for you live as soon as it begins.
I want to show you this photo, because this is the first time we have seen David Sweat since he escaped from that maximum security prison 23 days ago. Our Deborah Feyerick exclusively obtaining this photo of a bloodied, gaunt, pale, and clearly exhausted David Sweat.
This all went down in a field in Constable, New York, just two miles south of the Canadian border.
Here's what we know this hour: it happened just before 3:30 this afternoon. A sergeant with the New York state police spotted the convicted murderer. He was dressed in camouflage. He was walking down the road apparently all by himself in broad daylight.
He reportedly ran when he was clearly figured out he was spotted by the authorities. He ran through a field. He was shot twice. He is alive. He's being treated at a nearby hospital.
We have also just learned the name of the officer who was shot. His name is Sergeant Jay Cook. You're looking at the picture of him now. He is with the New York state police.
We are told that officer was not hurt in the takedown. We've also been told, our Jean Casarez reporting, that no other law enforcement members were hurt in this takedown.
We are awaiting that press conference from New York Governor Andrew Cuomo, expected to start 6:45 Eastern Time.
I want to go now to Vincent Hill, former police officer and police investigator.
Vincent, your reaction to the fact that 48 hours after police shot and killed Richard Matt, the fellow escaped convict, they are able to take in David Sweat, shoot him, take him down but no kill him.
VINCENT HILL, FORMER POLICE OFFICER: Well, thanks for having me, Poppy. I think his name is fitting, Sweat. For the last three weeks, he's been sweating bullets hoping not to be caught. Of course, the public has been praying that he was caught. And today, the efforts of law enforcement definitely paid off by capturing him, wounded him but keeping him alive, so he can provide vital information to how these two escaped, who was involved and what the ultimate plan was.
HARLOW: Do you think that he will talk?
HILL: I think so, Poppy, because you have to think, he's looking at additional charges for the escape, which could add to many, many years of uncomfortable living for him, which could be solitary confinement, you know, one hour of sunlight a day. So, I think he'll break and say, hey, I don't want to be in the cell
23, 24 hours a day. I want some type of freedom behind bars. So, I think he will talk. I think there's more than just Palmer and Joyce Miller involved in this.
HARLOW: Why do you think that?
HILL: Well, I don't think just the two of those could have pulled that off. I think it took more than just two. We know how they escaped, we know who was involved with getting tools in the prison and whatnot, but I think the overall plan is much bigger than those two people.
HARLOW: All right. Vincent Hill, former police officer in Nashville, stay with me.
I do want to bring in the legal side of all this, Joey Jackson.
Thank you for coming in my friend in this breaking news.
Let's talk about the legal side. If he is able to survive -- they're treating him at this hospital that doesn't have a trauma center, right? We don't know extend of his injuries. We don't know his condition if he's able to make it through. What happens next, legally?
JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, first of all, big, big day obviously. Law enforcement got their person out there. Three weeks, major manhunt, public cooperation, defendants who are, of course, being charged here are cooperating as well. And so, kudos to them, I think the community certainly breathes a sigh easier.
It's all about incentives, though, Poppy. We know, of course, that this, Mr. Sweat, is serving, you know, life in jail.
[18:20:00] So, the issue becomes what type of incentive could law enforcement or a prosecutor offer him so that he would speak?
Now, maybe on the issue of jail time, there's so much of an incentive. If I'm spending the rest of my life in jail, or certainly, you know, the vast majority of it, tack on a few years, so what?
But the other side of it is you can make a prisoner's life comfortable or uncomfortable while they're there. So, there are very many inducements you could provide to a prisoner. Food, simple to us, right? . We eat what we want, they do not.
And, you know, I think you're going to see from a perspective of speaking to him and getting him to spill the beans in terms of who helped him, how he did it, what was the extent of people who are involved in this. There's a lot that he could offer this, the issue will be, will he do it?
I think you'll see the inducement, maybe not so much on the prosecutorial side as it relates to jail or additional charges, but as it relates to the administrative side, how he spends his time in jail.
HARLOW: Matthew Horace, these guys, and I say these guys although this is anomaly to have something like this happen, but do they talk? HORACE: Sure. I think he may not have the traditional incentives
like we would use with other criminals, but going back to what Casey Jordan said the other day, if he's narcissistic, if he gets a big rise in the thrill, if he's seen as a hero in the jail, he might want to know disclose how he did, why he did it, and brag as to how they got where they are today.
JACKSON: And make no mistake about it. There will be a variety of responses to this. There will be legislative response in terms of where are laws on correctional officers and if they provide assistance, should they be more a D felony, which is seven years in jail?
Let's look at --
HARLOW: Yes. That's what I was wondering with the case of Joyce Mitchell.
JACKSON: Absolutely. So, I think what I think we'll see -- we'll see responses on many levels. Obviously, the legislative response, I think they'll look at tightening laws concerning cooperating with, you know, with correction officers, dealing with inmates, providing them with assistance, bringing in contraband, I think certainly you'll see administrative responses, inspector general all over how that prison is operating, where those correction officers are, what they're doing at night, what they're doing during the day.
You'll see a number of responses to this so this doesn't happen.
HARLOW: Deborah?
FEYERICK: Yes, it's interesting because the culture of the prison is about to change radically. When you stick to the policy handbook, it says, it's very clearly defined to kind of interaction you can have with the inmate, all right? The thing you're supposed to speak to.
And people are given courses on this because they want to make sure, you know, an inmate may say so, how's your day? If a correctional officer or somebody provides information, that's one of the central issues, that people said, well, how do they know about hunting cabins? Well, a lot of correctional officers had hunting cabins up in that area. So, that may have been plan B.
When they realized that Joyce Mitchell wasn't going to pick them up, they had the idea in their head, OK, let's get to an area where we may be able to get to the hunting cabins.
And it's that casual conversation. It's the sort of social engineering whereby these inmates are so clever that you don't know what may seem to be innocent information that becomes actually very powerful and very important to the inmate who is using that piece of information.
(CROSSTALK)
JACKSON: Briefly, Poppy, on that issue, there are rules. In my other life as defense attorney, I represent correction officers. But what happens is there's strict rules regarding what's called undue familiarity for this very reason.
HARLOW: Right, sure.
JACKSON: Undue familiarity means the extent of the relationship between the inmate and actual corrections officer. And, you know, something very simple, as Deb mentions, could escalate. So, the rules are in place to this very thing.
HARLOW: Exactly this reason.
Guys, I want you to take a listen. As I said, I spoke earlier today with New York Governor Andrew Cuomo here in New York City, obviously before all of this went down. But I asked him about his concern about this prison, how this could happen, and the investigation that he and his team have launch into what went wrong here. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D), NEW YORK: Interestingly, the prison is about 100 years old. This is the first escape in 100 years. So, it's not that this was an easy situation for these people to accomplish.
And when you look at the feats they went through, cutting through a quarter inch steel in the cell, catwalks, tunnels, et cetera. And it was a peculiar confluence of events, how they got the tools et cetera.
But there's no doubt changes have to be made and the way a prison runs, they try to have incentives for inmates, so they reward good behavior, because good behavior is good for everyone. It's good for guards. It's good for the management of the prison.
But there's no doubt there were personal acts that were wrong, personal acts that were illegal and may very well have been systemic breakdowns. I've ordered a full investigation to review the entire situation. And any changes that we have to make, we will make. If they're particular to that prison, we'll make them particular to that prison. If it's systemwide, we'll do it systemwide.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[18:25:03] HARLOW: New York Governor Andrew Cuomo speaking to me earlier today before this went down. But Deborah saying there very well may have been systemic breakdowns.
FEYERICK: Yes, that's exactly right.
You think about how -- it's a culture inside that prison. We can't understand it. But sometimes you may provide information. Sometimes you give a little bit in order to get something. So, for example, if you've got an inmate who's an informant, you may give them a cigarette, you may give them something that they can use.
The problem is, is once you begin giving them a little bit more, a little bit more, and then the inmate may use that information against you and effectively blackmail you, which they may have done this with Joyce Mitchell. I mean, they worked this woman. They got her into such a position that she was able to do what she did.
The interesting thing also is that I've never heard -- you know, look at the break down. We keep talking about the fact she smuggled hacksaws into frozen hamburger meat. What was she doing giving hamburger meat to these in the first place? That should have been the first red flag.
HARLOW: Unbelievable how this all has unfolded.
Stay with me. Quick break. Back with more breaking news on the fact that David Sweat, the convicted murderer, has been taken into custody by authorities.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
HARLOW: I'm Poppy Harlow.
If you're just joining us,
[18:30:01] breaking news here on CNN. The 23-day hunt for a convicted murderer has ended. It ended at 3:20 p.m. this afternoon when authorities shot but did not kill and they did apprehend David Sweat.
You see him gaunt, fatigued and bloodied there in that exclusive photo obtained by our Deborah Feyerick. We are awaiting a news conference that will be led by New York Governor Andrew Cuomo. Live pictures there. That will begin in about 15 minutes' time.
What we know is that at 3:20 this afternoon, David Sweat was walking in those camouflage clothes, alone, down a road in Constable, New York. He was spotted by a New York state sergeant, State Police Sergeant Jay Cook, who quickly realized that he was the man they'd been looking for. He started fleeing into a field. And he was shot twice. But they were able to arrest him. He's been treated in a local hospital. His condition is unknown at this time.
What you're looking at are live pictures on one side of your screen of the search area where so much of this intense manhunt was focused. David Sweat was taken down just 30 miles from the prison where he escaped.
Gary Tuchman on the phone with me from Constable, New York.
Gary, you're on the property where Sweat was shot. What are you seeing? What's the scene?
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (via phone): Interesting, notable observations for you, Poppy. First of all this is picturesque farm land in the U.S. border town of Constable, New York, where he was shot. It's behind a barn, inside the barn property is either an Amish or a Mennonite family that lives on that property.
We could tell you that it is about, as the crow flies, three miles south of the Canadian border, and the reason I know that specifically is there is a dirt road near the property, a dirt road that you can drive up. But then it stops, and you have to walk to the woods. But I got out of the car and walked a little bit to the woods. It's a part of the border that is not guarded. There is not a border station. You can walk into Canada.
So if he was walking at a normal pace and wanted to walk into Canada, he would have been there within one hour. So if he wasn't shot, if he wasn't stopped and he was walking on this road near the property, an hour or less. If you're jogging, it could have made it 40 minutes if he was found in this very quiet dirt road. There's a few homes but there's not a lot of activity. I do see one police officer here right now, I'm just not sure if he was here before this all happened. I don't think this is a normal place to patrol. But he was an hour, at a normal walking speed from getting in into Canada.
Both these men, Matt and Sweat -- Matt was killed, Sweat was shot, precisely 48 hours apart from each other, almost to the hour. And what's notable and interesting also is that Sweat is about 20 miles away from where Matt was shot. So if they were together, Sweat made up a lot of miles in 48 hours. It seems doubtful that he would have been able to do that going through this heavy brush, made 20 miles over less 48 hours. So it leads you to the possibility that they were not together when Matt was shot. But that is certainly still to be investigated -- Poppy.
HARLOW: Just one hour away, Gary, from potentially crossing that Canadian border on foot.
Gary, we're looking, so you know, at live pictures of a barn basically. And the search area there. Have you spoken with the family who's property this is, where he was taken down?
TUCHMAN: We've actually spoken to a family that lives right across the street. They are the only two houses in the area right there. And that family said that all of a sudden they heard what they thought were shots. They weren't sure and then they saw all these police cars come and commotion and tumult. And then they found out what was going on. I mean, there is no one in this part of New York state who doesn't know what was happening. The search for these men. So they automatically assumed that must be what's going on right now. So, yes, they're all very grateful that it ended the way it ended and that they weren't in danger.
HARLOW: How relieved are they? I mean, what did they say about how they felt frankly, over the past three weeks?
TUCHMAN: Well, these people were stunned. I mean, they've been watching on television, just like everybody else. Not only in this part of New York state, but probably the United States and the world, particularly our CNN viewers around the world. The story has obviously captured international attention. So everyone was alert. And like people who live here, I mean, this sounds cliche, but they really do not lock their doors.
They don't even lock their car doors. They often leave keys in their cars. They leave the keys, then hop in their car and their drive out during the day.
HARLOW: Right. Right.
TUCHMAN: But these were people who all were locking their doors, they're all locking their car doors, and all were being very careful. And then to have it end across the street from where you live is quite stunning to say the least.
HARLOW: Now they can live in peace again and live like they were before.
Deborah Feyerick, as you look at these pictures -- Gary, stay with us, stand by please. Thank you for the great reporting.
Deborah, as you look at these pictures, we just saw a horse-drawn buggy.
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. It's incredible. My first question also is, you know, the authorities kept saying that they were taking things from these hunting cabins. One thing I do want to know is whether in fact they took some sort of a map from these cabin because they were able to identify Route 30. And then somehow David Sweat after his friend was shot was able to make it this far up.
[18:35:06] Think about it. These -- the Amish, they don't have televisions, they don't have telephones, they don't have method of communications. So you have to wonder whether in fact authorities were in that area letting them know that there potentially this was fugitives who were there, who were nearby, and they should kind of keep an eye out for them. So you know, you think, everybody knows who these people are, well, you go into certain parts of the country, no, they don't.
HARLOW: Right.
FEYERICK: Because they don't have access to electronics like we do.
HARLOW: No.
FEYERICK: So, you know, in a way, I mean, when I hear Gary Tuchman, say that they were an hour from the Canadian border, it really almost sends shivers up my spine because even though there's an agreement between the Canadian authorities and U.S. authorities, still, you know, it would have made this search, it would complicate the search in such an intense degree. Right, Joey?
JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: Like an hour away.
FEYERICK: Yes.
JACKSON: And in normal walking speed. And you know, if you ever were looking for a deterrent in terms of other prisoners potentially breaking out or doing something like this, there's a deterrent factor in one being dead and another being shot and certainly captured, and in law enforcement banding together and making sure that no one was injured or harmed. Amazing.
HARLOW: And we've also learned that David Sweat is being treated at a local hospital right now. We're learning that he'll be treated and transferred to an Albany Hospital. Not going to read into what that means. There's a lot of questions hopefully will be answered at this press conference in 10 minutes' time as to his condition, how severely he was hurt, because what we do know is where he's being treated now locally does not have sort of the highest level trauma center there.
Again, his condition unknown at this time. Let's go straight to CNN's Polo Sandoval. He joins us live from the site where David Sweat was finally taken in by authorities -- Polo.
POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Poppy. If you were to make your way down the road that you see behind me here in Constable, New York, just past that roadblock that's been set up by New York State Police, you would be in that field where David Sweat was apprehended hours ago.
I can tell you that in speaking to some of the members in this very rural community, there is just so much relief at the sight of that photograph of David Sweat in handcuffs. They have been living through a virtual nightmare. Remember arriving on the ground just after that prison break happened just over three weeks ago and there was this very tense situation, a tense feeling on the streets of Dannemora, New York, which is only about 45 minutes away from where we are right now.
And then that feeling really began to move towards where we are now when that search truly expanded in and around the area. So what I can tell you, though, this morning, it was -- there was almost -- hope was really beginning to fade among the community. People were almost confident that this was not going to be something that was going to happen, at least any time soon. And especially so close to their doorstep. However, on the law enforcement side, that determination has not faded.
And in fact, I walked over in some of these state officers a few moments ago to ask them just how long we can expect them to be here, they said at this point, it could be all night. Perhaps as they continue to process that crime scene. It could be really hours before people are able to make it back towards their homes there.
Last thing I'll point out there, Poppy, there was a change in tone in their voice. They were intense last three weeks, nervous act how things would end. Now there's a lighter tone. Clearly there are quite satisfied with the outcome, most importantly that nobody got hurt, officers or any innocent people here. And the person that they were after, David Sweat, injured, in the hospital and in custody.
HARLOW: Polo, thank you for the reporting.
Alexandra Field joining me now also in Constable, New York. Alex, you have been on this story really since day one. What are you
hearing from the authorities around you?
ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What's really interesting, Poppy, is that we know that the search teams had actually focused pretty intently on Constable a few days ago. And that comes anecdotally just from people who we are speaking to in the community earlier this week. They were telling us this was before Richard Matt was shot. They were telling us we've just seen a lot of activity up here, we've seen a lot of investigators up here, we've seen the helicopters up here.
And now they tell me that once Richard Matt was shot and killed, they felt that some of that police activity dissipated. Of course we know that the attention was being focused to the area that Richard Matt was in. But what locals here are also saying is that there are railroad beds that run from Lake Titus, that area where Matt was killed, right up here to Constable. And they say the spot where David Sweat was confronted by that New York State Police sergeant is a very short walk from the railroad bed. So they are surmising that he could have very easily followed that trail or followed alongside it while avoiding any detection from officers.
But they say he could have really just followed that straight shot up. The route would have been carved for him. Of course we know, as Gary pointed out in his reporting, that he was very close to the Canadian border. We had heard from investigators a matter of days ago that they believed that both men were making their way toward Canada. So it makes a lot of sense to people here in Constable that he would be found in this spot.
[18:40:11] They say it's something that they've been very cognizant up even if the bulk of the search efforts were not concentrated here. They knew being on the Canadian border, they knew that having those rail beds lining the way from Lake Titus to here, that was certainly a possibility -- Poppy.
HARLOW: Alex, what can you tell me about the reaction of the people, the citizens of this community right now?
FIELD: What's really interesting is I was down in Lake Titus as this news broke, as we learned from our law enforcement sources that David Sweat had been shot, that he was alive, that he was being taken into custody. And just minutes later that news obviously swept through the Lake Titus community where they've been living with some 1300 law enforcement officers on the ground.
And minutes later, I was standing in our position in front of a CNN camera and a man drove by in the pickup truck, he lowered the window, he gave me the thumbs up. I also spoke to another man who lives within that search area where the concentration of the efforts had been focused, and he said it was just a sense of relief. We have heard collectively throughout the weeks here that people were not feeling a real sense of fear.
There was of course anxiety. But they said that the fear was toned down by the fact that they did see such a heavy law enforcement presence around. They were hopeful that these fugitives wouldn't make a move to alert authorities to their presence. So they felt safe given the presence but it is an absolute sense of relief, not only in Lake Titus, where Richard Matt was gunned down by that tactical unit but also up here in Constable, where they have been living, you know, vaguely under this sort of nebulous threat which has circulated around the region of the possibility that these fugitives could pop up just about anywhere.
There's also another component to this, Poppy. This feeling that there is some -- I don't know if relief is the right word, but some interest in the fact that David Sweat was taken alive because people have a lot of questions here and well beyond this community about how this escape was executed and they are hopeful that he will be in the condition and that he will be willing to cooperate with authorities to the extent that more can be learned about what was going on inside that prison in order to facilitate this kind of escape.
HARLOW: And, Alexandra, as you're reporting this, we're also just learning that David Sweat, who you see bloodies, shot twice, on one side of your screen, there you have it, is being moved as we speak. He's being transferred, Deborah Feyerick, to the Albany Medical Center.
FEYERICK: Yes. And it's interesting because a law enforcement source had told me that earlier. And we were trying to get confirmation from Albany Medical Center that he was going to be helicoptered there as soon as he was really in the right kind of condition. And one of the reasons that they are transporting him is because Albany Medical Center is a level one trauma center. And that's the highest designation you can get.
They've got trauma surgeons, they've got ER staff that's really equipped to handle very sophisticated procedures. And I'm not saying that the local hospital isn't, but the local hospital they handle hunting accidents, things like that. The goal, the main goal, as any hospital, is keeping this man alive. Keeping this individual alive so that he will talk, so that he will provide information.
Because, look, if he got out, there's also a concern that others may take advantage of the situation. Now clearly everything is on the highest level lockdown so nobody is going to get anywhere. However, that said, there was such a breach in security and such access to those catwalks, which apparently many of those prisoners did have access to the catwalks according to a former warden at the New York state facility. So all of that is going to be under investigation but that's one of the reason that he is being transported to Albany Medical Center because they really are one of the premier trauma centers in that region.
HARLOW: All right. Deborah, thank you for that.
Jean Casarez, on the ground there outside of the hospital where he was.
Jean, I understand you have new information on when he was moved, how he was moved. Do we have any updates on his condition? JEAN CASAREZ, CNN LEGAL CORRESPONDENT: It was just minutes ago, and
it was done very quickly. But we saw law enforcement assembling. And they have not said or made a statement at all in regard to his condition. But the ambulance just moved out minutes ago and it was speeding away. But here's the thing that I really want to tell you. Law enforcement started to leave the area as soon as that ambulance pulled out. And the ovation from the community to law enforcement as they were walking away was absolutely extraordinary.
And you saw law enforcement just filled with pride that this community cared so much about what they had been doing. Also want to tell you that local people -- are coming with food for the law enforcement, and they were bringing dishes to them, food to help them. They thought it might be a long night, I think, here for them. And they also were so grateful for that. But now we can tell you David Sweat was just taken from this hospital via the same ambulance that he arrived in and now we know that he is bound for Albany -- Poppy.
HARLOW: Jean Casarez, thank you. Excellent reporting as always throughout all of this.
As we're looking at those -- pictures from moments ago, video just into us from moments ago of David Sweat being transported with a heavy police force right alongside that ambulance, being moved from a local hospital near where he was taken in to Albany Medical Center, as our Deborah Feyerick has reported.
[18:45:15] Albany, one of the best facilities for medical care in the region, has a level one trauma center. Again, we do not have an update on his condition. Hopefully we will get that at the 6:45 p.m. press conference that is supposed to start right about now being led by New York Governor Andrew Cuomo.
As we monitor that, you see it on the bottom of your screen, Joey Jackson, to you. If this is someone who is perhaps in worse shape than they would like, do you start trying to talk to him now? Do you start trying to get information from him now?
JACKSON: You know, it's an imperative of course, Poppy, to get information and to get it as soon as you possibly can but at the same time, there are the realities and the realities are that you get information when he's medically capable and able to provide it. Why? Because then you know it t would be, you know, more reliable potentially than in the event that he's in half induced coma or what have you.
And so I think that what they'll do is he'll -- they'll wait until a time where he's stabilized and the doctors think that it's appropriate and OK for him to speak and be in a condition to cooperate, they'll do it then. But we should also say in having this discussion that his cooperation certainly not guaranteed. Right? I mean, certainly they'll make inducements to him. And again, I add this, from a prosecution perspective, there's very little incentive that he has. He's serving a life sentence.
And so what can you do? You can do other things to make his life comfortable in a facility. And potentially that may be enough to induce his cooperation. He's certainly a treasure trove of information into what if any other people in that facility were cooperative. Were there correction officers involved? Were there civilians who are not correction officers involved? Were there other inmates involved? Was anyone on the outside involved? Was anybody else planning to do what you did?
So he's a treasure trove of information. But even if he's medically stable, you know, we don't know if he'll absolutely cooperate. But certainly as Matthew, as I'm sure can speak to, the police will provide every incentive for him to do so.
HARLOW: Matthew?
MATTHEW FOGG, CHIEF DEPUTY, U.S. MARSHALS (RET.): Well, like we said earlier, no traditional incentives are available to him. He was serving life. He's going to be serving life. But if he is a narcissist, if he sees himself as a hero to the prison population, he may want his story to come out.
HARLOW: Deborah?
FEYERICK: Yes. Well, you know, I just keep thinking of the walls inside that prison and the cells and all the facilities. And that's where he could also provide some vital information. What it is he's going to say, who was involved. Everyone knew about these catwalks that were there. I spoke to the former prison warden at Attica and he said, you know, they used to do bar checks every two weeks. They used to do checks of the cells of the facilities to make sure that they were still sort of -- that the integrity of the structure was still in place.
How also -- this is a question that continues to bother me, and that is, you know, we've seen one hole in the room of Richard Matt. So the question is, how did David Sweat get into that hole? Did he make his dummy and then slip into the back waiting? Did he -- was he in Richard Matt's room, maybe under the bed or somewhere else? So that sort of bothered me. How did he get into Matt's cell so that he could get behind the prison walls? And that's going to be something that's under investigation as well.
JACKSON: Sure. And also, Poppy, going back to something that Deb brought up earlier, and that deals with the culture of the facility. There will no doubt be a sea change where that's involved. Because listen, you know, this obviously was a major breach. And so I think the protocols in terms of when a correction officer actually goes and checks on them, what you have to do when you check on them. What you have to do when you check on them, you go to the cell? Do you go inside the cell? Do you look, as people have said, professionals who deal with security, you know, vital signs when they're in that cell?
Are they breathing? Do you know they're there? Or is a pillow there? So there's certainly -- the inspector general will evaluate how those protocols can be increased, how breaches of security in the future don't occur like this again. They'll be rewritten and people will be held accountable to be sure. FEYERICK: You know, one critical question that I have and -- I was
speaking to somebody who said look, David Sweat could -- he's still in the custody of the Bureau of Prisons.
HARLOW: Yes.
FEYERICK: Because even though he escaped, you know, technically they still have custody, there's a potential he could ask for a trial perhaps.
HARLOW: Just so he can get out more?
FEYERICK: Well, possibly, that's an issue. But also the interesting thing would be, you know, we hear this defense over and over again. Well, I was just following Richard Matt. I got in too deep. He was threatening my life. You know, and so once he got out, I went with him.
JACKSON: Duress.
FEYERICK: And I'm just wondering whether in fact that could even be a defense of some sort.
JACKSON: You know, it's interesting because the standard for duress, Deb, and when we talk about duress, what we mean is that, you know, I was a tag-along, but the reason I tagged along is because I feared for my life. I feared for my safety. I feared that if I did not go along, that something would happen to me. But the standard is so high you have to be in such an imminent threat of being harmed that it's really not likely to be used or otherwise if used to be used successfully.
[18:50:11] HARLOW: Rick Schwein also on with us. Rick Schwein is a former FBI special agent, also unique perspective on this.
Rick, because you led the manhunt for the Olympic Centennial Park bomber Eric Rudolph. Very different case, as someone who's able to evade police for much, much longer so an expertise in living in the wilderness as we see this image. Hopefully you can see it, of a bloodied, gaunt, much thinner, clearly desperate David Sweat. What is your reaction to what has transpired in just the past three hours since he was taken down?
RICK SCHWEIN, FORMER SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE, FBI: Well, it doesn't concern me that he's been moved to a higher level trauma center. I mean, gunshot wound victims, that's the protocol, right? You want to save their life. It suggests -- the photo suggests that his wounds are not life threatening. He is in a sitting position. They did not Medevac him via air asset. They Medevaced him to the closest medical facility where he received initial care and now he's going to where he can get greater care and once again he's going by ground transportation.
So his wounds are likely not life threatening. The fact that he's a little bit more gaunt than he was at the time of his escape is not surprising. He expended a lot more calories than he was likely to take in. It's also not surprising just given the terrain and all the hunting cabins that are up there that he was able to obtain additional clothing, where he was captured additional no surprises there. People take the path of least resistance. Why break brush when you can walk or run along a railroad bed, along a road or around a fire break?
Now law enforcement would have planned for all of those things and it's interesting to me because 72 hours ago the New York State Police said they were highly confident that the two fugitives were traveling northwest towards -- the Canadian border and then 72 hours both of them were found exactly where the briefer from the New York State Police said they would be found, Poppy.
HARLOW: Rick, I was just asking Joey this. I'm interested on your perspective of when you start to ask questions. As an investigator, when do you start to ask questions? When Eric Rudolph was taken down, do you start asking -- I mean, what is the process? Do you start asking questions in the ambulance on the way to the hospital? Was it purely medical care until he is in a stable condition?
SCHWEIN: So that would depend on the circumstances. In a case of Rudolph, he had been indicted so there were some things with regard to Miranda that you had to pay attention to. In this particular case, they were escapees. Yes, you can do an investigation and charge them for the escape but you're not trying to investigate a homicide. At least not that we know of. So there are a lot of different techniques.
The key is to have the right investigators in front of Mr. Sweat. Somebody that's going to be able to gain rapport with him. Find out what motivates him. And you know what, they're going to have the very best and there are some extremely, extremely skilled interviewers in the law enforcement community. So, in my opinion, he will likely talk. Most people do. It is just a matter of finding either something that will incentivize them talking or appealing to some other motivation to get them to tell their story -- Poppy.
HARLOW: They can certainly make his life an absolute nightmare in prison much worse than it could be, perhaps, if he does speak and give up information.
Thank you, Rick. Stay with me.
I want to go to Matthew Fogg, chief deputy U.S. Marshal -- retired chief deputy U.S. Marshal Service.
Matthew, your reaction to the fact that this happened in the broad daylight Sunday afternoon. David Sweat is walking down the street.
FOGG: What I think, once again, it was an awesome piece of law enforcement work by the state trooper that found him. It shows you that everybody was out there looking, not just leaving no rock unturned and the fact that when he approached him, he saw him, he attempted to make the arrest on this guy. He had to shoot him. Bottom line is the guy survived the shooting. And he's in care right now and certainly they got him to the point of being stable obviously. And as the agent just said, they're going to now start to question
every -- try to find out everything they can about him. But I think it was just great police work. It showed how the U.S. Marshal, the FBI, the Border Patrol, all of the State Police, everybody worked together just diligently to make certain that they had all areas covered and it just shows you that we had all areas covered that the bottom line was he was on his way to Canada but they got him before he got there.
HARLOW: All right. Thank you very much, Matthew Fogg. Stay with me. I do want to go to Jean Casarez. She joins us now again outside that hospital where David Sweat was initially treated. He's been moved to Albany Medical Center where there is a level one trauma center.
But, Jean, I understand you're with a former Clinton Correctional Facility, correctional officer. Is that right?
CASAREZ: I am. This is a former lieutenant from Clinton Correctional Facility. He has just retired. Michael Blane is joining us.
And one thing, Michael, I wanted to ask you because this is being broadcast all across the country on networks just like CNN. Do the inmates have television at Clinton Correctional? Are they watching this as it has unfolded this afternoon?
MICHAEL BLANE, FORMER LIEUTENANT, CLINTON CORRECTIONAL CENTER: I'm quite certain they are. I'm not sure -- I don't recall what channels they have access to but they're watching. They're glued to these sets, as well.
CASAREZ: And what do you think the impression or what's the reaction going to be for the inmates when they know that David Sweat was captured?
BLANE: Well, there's going to be a lot of sour grapes. There's going to be, oh, you know, they took -- you know, he ran for three weeks. They took them this long to get him. But there's also going to be, oh, they didn't have to shoot him. They could have done this, could have done that. All type of ghetto talk. A lot of talking, a lot of smack as they say on the street but as they say, the boys in blue always win.
CASAREZ: You know, Clinton Correctional is very historic, 1845 is when it was built. 100 years they never had anyone escape like this. How did this happen? You were on the inside. You saw how it works there. How did this happen?
BLANE: The machine broke down. Nothing happens in jail without people knowing. There's a saying. There are no secrets in jail. There are no secrets. And unfortunately, the machine broke down. The intelligence network must have broken down. Somebody knew something. It just didn't get passed up and I'm very disappointed but I'm very glad it ended this way.
CASAREZ: You know, people in this community are saying that they're so glad that David Sweat is alive because they want answers and they want to know who else is involved. At this point, there's only two people that have been charged. The district attorney made a very conclusory statement saying that he didn't think anyone else would be charged.
Do you think more people are involved in all of this?
BLANE: There's rumors, there's names mentioned amongst retired staff and those are still on the job. I'll wait and see. It's a waiting game. But I do know that those of us who are retired have been communicating and we're rooting for all the answers to come out.
Am I happy the way it turned out? We needed -- the state needed inmate Sweat alive to get the answers. Now it's a matter of getting them, although I do believe that the world will be a better place without inmate Sweat.
CASAREZ: So is it routine for a correction officer, a civil employee, to bring in tools from the outside, to the inmates for the inside, to hide paint in an area where they're going to be conducting a search of the cell? Is that normal in there?
BLANE: No. It is not. Very unusual.
CASAREZ: All right. So as a correctional officer yourself, your thoughts about law enforcement today and the capture of David Sweat?
BLANE: I'm very, very happy. I was having lunch with a friend of mine who has a camp on Lake Titus. He's from western Canada. We hadn't seen each other in a very long time and when I got a text from one of my sources, I just about jump out of my skin. I couldn't believe it. I didn't think it was real at the beginning.
CASAREZ: Because now you're safe, too.
All right. Poppy, I'll send it back to you. But as you can see the inmates are probably watching this at the same time and I know in the maximum security facilities I have been in, in New York, I've been to Sing Sing recently, they do have television and they can buy their own televisions, and so they are watching this unfold knowing that one of their own was captured and will be going back to a maximum security prison in the state of New York as soon as they probably get out of the hospital -- Poppy.
HARLOW: All right. Jean Casarez, thank you very much.
I do want to let our viewers know that for the first time since David Sweat escaped from prison 23 days ago his mother, his mother Pamela Sweat has spoken, she spoke with local media. We are turning that interview. As soon as I hear we can air it for you, you will see it as we see it for the first time. Stay with us for that.
Also, you see at the bottom of your screen, we are waiting for a press conference from New York Governor Andrew Cuomo who is going to be speaking there in upstate New York about what we know. We're still waiting for a number of key questions to be answered. We're still waiting to find out what the condition is of David Sweat. We know he was shot twice running across a field.
What are the extent of his injuries? Have they been able to ask him any questions? Have they been able to determine whether or not he was with Richard Matt who was shot and killed by police 48 hours ago on Friday evening? If he was with him, when did the two of them separate? How did he hide out for so long in that camouflage gear?
All of these questions we're hoping to get some answers from the governor. He will also be joined at this press conference by New York State Trooper, Police Superintendent Joseph Demico. He will be joining the governor. We are awaiting that press conference. It is nearly the top of the hour. 7:00 Eastern. CNN breaking news.
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.
HARLOW: 7:00 Eastern. I'm Poppy Harlow in New York.
Captured. Fugitive David Sweat is now in the hands of police. Take a look at this photo obtained exclusively by our Deborah Feyerick. It was taken just moments after Sweat was shot and captured this afternoon by a New York State Trooper.
