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Report: Matt May Have Been Drunk When Shot; Catholic Church on Gay Marriage. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired June 28, 2015 - 08:00   ET


[08:00:00] COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS: Hot topic. Conversation for sure guys but thanks as always for joining us in the conversation. #NewDayCNN, or @CNN. We're there to listen and have you join us in the talk.

CHRISTI PAUL, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, we want to know what you think.

Coy, thank you so much. Good info.

WIRE: Thank you, guys.

PAUL: And thank you so much for starting your morning with us.



BLACKWELL: Breaking new details on the condition of escapee Richard Matt just moments before he was shot and killed by police.

PAUL: As weather conditions make the search for his partner in crime so much more difficult this morning.

But also you would think difficult for him to try to survive out there, as well.

So good to have you with us. I'm Christi Paul.

BLACKWELL: Welcome to your Sunday. I'm Victor Blackwell.

PAUL: And we want to begin in northern New York. Details breaking here about the death of Richard Matt. Buffalo News reporting Matt may have been drunk when he was shot, and that his body reeked of alcohol. We're going to have more on that in just a moment.

But we also want to look at one of the cabins here. Take a look at this. This was a temporary hideout for the escapees, and you can see how isolated and really remote it is. Today's search is focused here on this 22-square mile area near the town of Malone.

And that's where we find Polo Sandoval this morning.

So, let's start with the details we're learning about Richard Matt being possibly not just drunk but also ill. Is that right, Polo?

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Christi the people here in Upstate New York are waking up to those reports by that local newspaper, the Buffalo News now reporting that Richard Matt was likely not only sick but possibly even intoxicated as he faced off with a border patrol tactical team, the agents who would eventually shoot and kill him.

This morning, we are making phone calls trying to dig for details from the medical examiner's office to see if an autopsy has already been performed on Richard Matt's body, and if so, does it confirm that information that he, in fact, was really into some bad conditions, and just bad shape.

And you look at the weather out here, too, guys, and the situation here has really gone from bad to worse. It's inconvenient for us, not only -- really also for first responders, police officers that are out there, as well. Then trying to picture yourself trekking through some of the woods here, the terrain extremely tough to navigate on a dry day, as you hear from one of the residents here, Paula (ph).

I want you to hear and listen to how he describes what some of the woods are like here.


TIM LAROCQUE, RESIDENT: Extension brush, boulders, rocks, mountains, beaver swamps. You got the silt on the bottom that works like quicksand, I mean, then the bugs. Most people we're kind of used to them up here. But a lot of people aren't. You can be walking through a field one minute and having to traverse a 45-degree angle for, you know, 500 feet, and, you know, it's tough out there.


SANDOVAL: Tough terrain, bugs and now the rain again as we look to follow the very latest on the search for David Sweat. You can expect the first responders and also search crews nearly 1,200 of them dealing with this very nasty weather -- guys.

PAUL: All righty. Hey, Polo Sandoval, we appreciate it. Thank you.

BLACKWELL: Let's focus in on the hunt with CNN law enforcement analyst and former NYPD detective, Harry Houck.

We've got Lieutenant Colonel James Reese, retired from the U.S. Army, also trained tracker.

All right. Let's start with you, Lieutenant Colonel.

If Matt was reportedly sick, is it safe to assume that Sweat is, as well?

LT. COL. JAMES REESE (RET), CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: It's a good possibility and something the law enforcement folks are looking at. The bottom line, if he is sick it slows him down. It really affects the psychological aspect of being on the run.

Right now with the rain coming down, they've been on this for two weeks, if he is physically sick his brain is starting to overcome his body. And that intellectual part is starting to tell him stop, slow down. He starts to make those mistakes, which is great for law enforcement.

So, as Harry will probably tell you here, if he is sick, it's good for law enforcement. This could come to a conclusion very quickly, especially with this rain is this is going on.

BLACKWELL: Harry, I'm surprised by this detail reported by the Buffalo News citing an unnamed source, the detail about the drunkenness. Are you surprised by that?

HARRY HOUCK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: No, not really, probably their first chance in a long time to drink. So that's why they did it.

And also, like the colonel was saying, their psychological stability right now, or his psychological stability is probably almost nothing. If he's sick, he's probably laying down somewhere.

I can't see him tracking through these woods right now, if he's sick from the bad water or the bad food they had. Not to mention that the exhaustion that he's gone through. He's been there for 21 days.

If you don't have a compass when you're going through the woods, you tend to walk in circles. And the only way he can get out of there and know which way is north, south, east west is make himself to a road and walk alongside a road knowing that he's going north towards Canada or he's going south towards wherever he wants to go.

[08:05:09] BLACKWELL: Harry, I wonder, when we talk about kind of the concerns of the weather, and this terrain, would you expect that he is indoors somewhere, maybe one of these camp sites?

HOUCK: Well, that's one of my concerns right now. I think that the police should start looking at some of the cabins close to the area where they found Matt. There's a chance he's trying to make his way in to a cabin. One of those -- some shelter, because he's probably feeling so sick that no matter what, even if he's got to hold somebody hostage, he's got to get inside.

The temperature out there is 50 degrees. You got ice cold rain. I've been stuck in that. I've walked in that area up there before and I've walked on trails. And when it starts to rain and when it starts to get cold, and I've got to pack and I've got supplies with me, I still feel, you know, really -- I get really tired. And you get de- motivated, and you just want to sit down.

BLACKWELL: Lieutenant Colonel, when we use the term perimeter, can you put some meat on that for us? Are we just talking about checkpoints, and officers on roads? Or are there officers and search crews in the forest just waiting?

REESE: Yes, well, right now, with the number of law enforcement agents and others that are out there, volunteers helping this, you now, because this is such a mature search area, you literally can get not only checkpoints, but literally start putting a human ring around these certain areas. And the way they look at this, they hashtag the circular area. So, this 22 miles, there are several different techniques.

One is to kind of hashtag each piece off until they clear that. And they've literally can move into an area, and circle that piece, clear it, and then leave people there to make sure it stays secure, and move on.

Right now, time is at the law enforcement's benefit. And the escapee, if he is moving, he is struggling. He's trying to continue to move. But right now, with the rain, the time he's been under, and the thing that is interesting for most people is, he hasn't got that far in 21 days.

So, he's struggling right now.

BLACKWELL: Harry, you know, most people that expected this to have been ended in the first couple of days. We're now going into week four. Is there a point in which you dial back this search considering finite resources?

HOUCK: Well, you know, I think as long as they believe that they might have him in a perimeter area, this search is going to go on. It's clear that you could see, you know, where we found Matt. Matt didn't get anywhere, really. He got within 20-some, 30 miles of the prison itself.

We had to assume the same thing for Sweat. He's out there going in circles, nowhere to go. So he probably is in that area somewhere, and a lot of people don't realize that a search like the colonel could tell you, these searches are like looking for a needle in a haystack.


HOUCK: It is a really tough, you know, with only 1,100 police officers out there.

BLACKWELL: All right. Harry Houck, Lieutenant Colonel James Reese, thank you both.

REESE: Thanks, Victor.

HOUCK: Thanks.

PAUL: Well, he's controversial. He's rich. And he's currently near the top of the GOP pack in the polls this morning. Of course, we're talking about Donald Trump and he is on "STATE OF THE UNION" with Jake Tapper this morning. Jake's joining us next for a preview.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLACKWELL: President Obama there, delivering through song part

of the moving eulogy for the Pastor Clementa Pinckney who was killed more than a week ago.

This has been an important week for the Obama presidency, and for his legacy. In addition to that, you've got the Supreme Court victories for Obamacare, same-sex marriage, again a big week.

Let's bring in "STATE OF THE UNION" host Jake Tapper. Jake, politicians, historians, will be talking about these last few weeks for years to come.

JAKE TAPPER, STATE OF THE UNION: It seems that way, absolutely. If you had told me, Victor, two weeks ago on my first "STATE OF THE UNION," hey, by your third show, you'll be talking about Republicans calling for the Confederate flag to come down, President Obama's trade deal coming through, and same-sex marriage being legal, all over the United States -- I would have said slow down, Victor, that's a lot of change in two weeks.

But, that is often how these things happen, very, very slowly, and then very quickly. And that is one of the things that we'll be talking about on "STATE OF THE UNION" coming up with our all-star panel.

BLACKWELL: Yes, and the week started with that self-declared fearlessness I'm sure you'll be talking about.


BLACKWELL: You've got a pretty interesting and important guest with you this morning.

TAPPER: The guy who is number two a bullet in New Hampshire, Donald Trump, who is wowing Republicans in polls. There's a poll that shows him second nationwide, second only to Jeb Bush, second in New Hampshire, in our own CNN poll, which follows a different poll, a Suffolk University poll showing him second in New Hampshire.

So, we do have Donald Trump as our guest. One of the things I asked him about was about his stance, he says, in favor of traditional marriage.

Take a listen.


TAPPER: What do you say to a lesbian who is married or a gay man who is married who says, Donald Trump, what's traditional about being married three times?

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, they have a very good point. I've been a very hard-working person. I've had actually I have a great marriage, I have a great wife now. My two wives were very good.

TAPPER: But what do you say to a lesbian or a gay man who are married, and say --

TRUMP: I really don't say anything. I mean, I'm just -- I'm just, Jake, I'm for traditional marriage.


TAPPER: We should point out, Victor, that that interview took place before the U.S. Supreme Court decision on Friday. But still, Donald Trump maintaining his position that this is an issue that should be left to the states, and he himself personally in favor of traditional marriage between one man and one woman. We have lots more with Donald Trump, coming up.

[08:15:02] BLACKWELL: Looking forward to it. Jake Tapper, thanks.

TAPPER: Thank you.

BLACKWELL: And "STATE OF THE UNION" with Jake Tapper starts at the top of the hour, 9:00 a.m. Eastern, right here on CNN.

Also, tonight, CNN Films is debuting a new documentary, "Glen Campbell: I'll Be Me". Here's a peek.


BUDDY JEWELL, MUSICIAN: In a way, it's a blessing for his fans because, we know that on down the line, we're not going to be able to go and -- and see him. And watch him perform and so now, is our opportunity to get out and to be able to see a living legend.

JOSH CARTER CASH, MUSIC PRODUCER: Glen and my dad were friends. And his music filled the house, the Cash house.

Music magically makes a difference in everyone's life. I mean, it's the fire that drives us on. Get us through our rougher, harder times.

SHERYL CROW, MUSICIAN: I still cling to the fact that music does something to the molecules. I think that music is one of the only things that really collectively can change the molecules in all of us. And, gosh, what a -- what a -- an immense blessing to be able to have that impact on people.


BLACKWELL: "Glen Campbell: I'll Be Me", premieres tonight at 9:00 Eastern, right here on CNN.


BLACKWELL: It is a special time for same-sex couples across the country. While many cities celebrate pride week, there is even more pride now that the federal government said these couples can get married. PAUL: You know, they may be lawfully wed, but as far as the

Catholic Church is concerned they're not united in God. The church stands firm in its refusal to perform gay marriages and many bishops go further, urging Catholics to not even attend gay marriages.

Let's talk to archbishop of Louisville, Kentucky, Joseph Kurtz, he's also the president of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops.

So, Archbishop, thank you so much for being with us. We appreciate it.

ARCHBISHOP JOSEPH KURTZ, PRESIDENT, CONFERENCE OF CATHOLIC BISHOPS: Christi, good to be with you. A big hello from Louisville.

PAUL: Thank you. I understand you have called the Supreme Court decision a tragic error. Why?

KURTZ: Well, first of all, let me be clear, it's not because I do not agree with the equality of all people. Equal respect is certainly due.

The question that I have is relating to the nature of marriage itself. And I believe, for the common good, for the good of our nation and our children, that we do not really have the opportunity to change that definition. I know it is now the law of the land, and we'll be dealing with that, as we do with all civil laws, but the church will continue to be an active witness on behalf of the beauty of marriage as one man and one woman.

PAUL: So, when you say you will continue to deal with that, does that mean the church will not fight the high court's decision? Or do you anticipate that will happen?

KURTZ: Well, we don't know the road ahead. You might know that there are going to be hundreds and hundreds of laws on a local, state and national level, federal level, that will have to be dealt with. And so, we really don't know all of the implications. I don't think our country really knows all the implications of.

We will continue to witness, however, to the sanctity of marriage as the union of one man and one woman. And by the way, as a church, we will continue to serve all people.

PAUL: So if somebody --

KURTZ: We will do so.

PAUL: -- is a gay, married couple, they are welcome in your church?

KURTZ: Well, welcome in the sense that all of us welcome the individual, walk with them. Each of us is called to conversion. I myself am, too.

However, the beginning point is to welcome people, and meet them where they are. I think Pope Francis has rightly said that that is our task in life, is to meet people and walk with them, as we all are converted to Christ.

PAUL: So, OK, so when you talk about conversion, are you talking about conversion to Christ as they are? Or do you mean you will welcome couples into the church, but you will try to convert them, if you believe them not to be gay?

KURTZ: Well, let's begin by saying that the vision of sexuality that is given to us by Christ in the church is one that all of us are called to do. Our Holy Father has said at the synod that we had on family last year, we'll have another one this October, that one of the first qualities pastorally is great patient.

And so, we walk with people, we meet them where they are, and we call them to uncover the glory of sexuality. Just as we all are asked to do.

PAUL: There are a lot of people, I mean, that believe you are born gay. And there are a lot of gay Christians and a lot of gay Catholics out there.

KURTZ: Yes. Yes.

PAUL: How do you not alienate them?

KURTZ: We're talking not simply about what our attractions or orientations are. We're talking really about the decisions, the life decisions we make in chastity, and in seeking to live our life in conformity to God's plan.

PAUL: But how do you also reach them without being judgmental? Because God also says not to judge?

KURTZ: You're absolutely right. The individual person is not judged.

The standard, though, of God's law and sexuality is one that's given to all of us. And so, walking with a person, and helping that person uncover God's plan is, I think, pastorally, what we've been doing for many, many years and will continue to do.

[08:25:02] PAUL: Well, Archbishop Kurtz we appreciate your voice here. Thank you for being with us.

KURTZ: Thanks, Christi.

PAUL: Of course.

And we'll be right back.


BLACKWELL: Coming on the bottom of the hour, let's take a look at stories making headlines.

More than 40 hospitals treating 524 people injured in this horrific explosion at a Taiwanese water park Saturday. Look. People are running through these flames to get away from this fireball as it chased them. Flammable powder blew up over a stage and spread fast. Authorities have questioned five people, including two considered to be suspects.

PAUL: And look at this video. A helicopter, hoisting people out of the water. Police say a boat carrying nine people was swept over a dam new the town of New Market, Maryland, and officials believe heavy rain caused water to flow rapidly, pushing that boat over. One person drowned. The other eight barely made it out alive.

So grateful for your company. Thanks for being with us.