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First Arrests after Tunisia Terror Attack; Greece on Brink of Default; Roger Federer on Staying at the Top of His Game; Imagine a World. Aired 2-2:30p ET
Aired June 29, 2015 - 14:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN HOST (voice-over): Tonight: Tunisia makes arrests after Friday's beach terror attack, up to 30 Britons are among the
3 dozen dead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID CAMERON, PRIME MINISTER, GREAT BRITAIN: These were innocent British holiday makers, people who'd saved up for a special time away with their
friends and family who suddenly became the victims of the most brutal terrorist attack against British people for many years.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR (voice-over): How can ISIS be stopped? I'll ask a counterterrorism expert and former government adviser.
Also ahead: speeding down the road to default now, can Greek businesses survive? The head of the Chamber of Commerce joins me live from Athens.
And as Wimbledon opens, my one-on-one with the king of the courts, Roger Federer.
AMANPOUR: Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the program. I'm Christiane Amanpour.
A place of beauty turned into a scene of brutality. Tunisia has made its first arrest in connection with Friday's terror attack in a popular beach
resort in Sousse while government officials along with Britain's home secretary and ministers from Germany and France lay flowers on the beach
where 38 people were slaughtered in the summer sun on Friday.
It is believed that up to 30 of them could be British holiday makers. This as the British Prime Minister David Cameron called the fight against ISIS,
quote, "a struggle of our generation."
What can or should the British and the Tunisians do now?
Afzal Ashraf served as an RAF captain in Iraq and Afghanistan and a former senior adviser to the British government counterterrorism center. He joins
me now here in London with hopefully some answers.
AMANPOUR: Welcome to the program.
This is yet another slaughter in broad daylight.
What can Britain do despite all the fighting words of the prime minister today?
AFZAL ASHRAF, FORMER RAF CAPTAIN: We need to confront daish or ISIS.
AMANPOUR: But they say they are.
ASHRAF: Well, they are and they're also saying that it's going to take a long time. And if it's going to take decades, then we need to accept this
sort of attack for decades because its very existence is an inspiration to people. That's why people in the West and in other countries go out and do
So what needs to be done is to think about what is attractive about daish, how it defines itself. It defines itself through territory. One year ago
today it had --
ASHRAF: -- announced a caliphate, it announced itself as an Islamic state, having captured territory. That was the only qualification. So if you can
deny a territory you can discredit the organization and weaken its appeal.
AMANPOUR: Well, here's the question. And let me play you what Prime Minister Cameron also said today and I ask you whether the British and the
rest of international community are up against the fight that you say they need to be. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAMERON: It is an existential threat, because what's happening here is the perversion of a great religion and the creation of this poisonous death
cult that is seducing too many young minds in Europe, in America, in the Middle East and elsewhere.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: I mean, "an existential threat," and he's called it the struggle of our time. But are the methods that are being employed now up to what
he's saying, what he's describing?
ASHRAF: Well, I'm not sure even the priority -- forget the methods -- matches what he's saying. He's absolutely right. It is an existential
threat. It's a threat to the West. It's a threat to the East. It's a threat to the Muslims. It's a threat to the Sunnis, the Shias. It's a
threat even to Al Qaeda, with whom it shares the ideology.
So he's right about that. Then you look at what is going on. The regional powers, Saudi Arabia and others, are much more interested in what's going
on in Yemen and the West is supporting them in that. Nobody's really prioritizing this thing.
AMANPOUR: What exactly has to be done?
What do the British need to do and their allies?
And what do the Tunisians need to do?
ASHRAF: Quickly, the British and the allies, particularly the U.S., need to think about a single strategy to fight daish, which brings together the
coalition air effort and the ground work that is being carried out by the Iraqi army. It needs to be supplemented by other ground forces, regional
forces. So everybody recognizes this existential threat, prioritizes it over everything else, including Assad, who is an issue that needs to be
subordinated to the daish issue, which is the one that must be confronted and all others must follow after that.
But that's what's needed. And as soon as you get that, the actual military type of operations are relatively easy. They're not very difficult to
plan. Strategically, of course, they're very difficult on the ground. But the strategy is not a difficult one to plan.
AMANPOUR: But there is a lot of resistance. The whole idea of boots on the ground, even if they're other people's boots and not our boots, is not
Is this one step that is going to turn, that be the tipping point, so to speak?
ASHRAF: It'll have to be the tipping point and it's not just boots on the ground. It's how those boots are deployed. At the moment we've got a
First World War type scenario where you've got one side, on one side the defense and you have the other side fighting it out.
What we need is maneuverist warfare, warfare that the Germans pioneered in the Second World War, using air power to put troops behind enemy lines, to
break down their lines of communications, to use the advantage that conventional forces have in air mobility, especially air mobility, the
advantage they have in surprise, in simultaneity, all of those things are just not being exploited.
And if they are exploited, then this organization that took over this land in a matter of three or four weeks can certainly be pushed back in at least
the same time if not less.
AMANPOUR: What about the radicalization here, the British government has been talking about raising its threat -- I think it's at severe right now -
- online we're told they found manuals for lone wolf attacks. We are approaching the anniversary of 7/7, the last major attack here in Great
What do you think is likely to come this way?
ASHRAF: What, in terms of attacks?
ASHRAF: Well, I think there is always a possibility and we know this from briefings that the security service give us and the police, that there are
many plots underway and the police and security services are monitoring them and disrupting them as and when they can.
So we can expect attacks; of course what we will expect is small-scale attacks which may, in some cases, if they get hold of the right weapons and
are lucky with the right methodology, lead to several deaths.
What we need to do is to avoid that. And if we are to avoid it, we have to stop the incentive. And the incentive at the moment is the continuing
existence of this organization.
One thing let's remember is Nazis were destroyed, but there are still a lot of Nazis. Why we don't have so many attacks by Nazis isn't because they're
few in number. It's because they've learnt failure. And I think what we need to do is to teach those that might be attracted to this organization,
that it's futile. It will never succeed. And until the world sends out that message, there will always be young people, especially, in small
groups or singles, who will try and do this sort of thing.
AMANPOUR: It's a real war.
ASHRAF: It is and --
AMANPOUR: -- we're not fighting it.
AMANPOUR: Afzal Ashraf, thank you very much indeed for joining me.
AMANPOUR: This terrible disaster that's hitting both Tunisia and Britain just now is happening just as another perfect storm surges over Europe.
Greece -- we turn there after a break -- now that its banks are closed and its marriage to Europe is falling apart, what happens next there? The
business view from Athens when we come back.
AMANPOUR: Welcome back. Now global markets tumbled today as Europe braces for a collision with the oncoming Grexit train. And as the Greek prime
minister passes the buck, some say, to its people in a wordy referendum.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR (voice-over): These are live pictures as thousands of people gather in the central Athens square. The president of the European
Commission, Jean-Claude Juncker, told the Greek people, "You shouldn't commit suicide because you're afraid of dying.
Strong words, strong imagery; he's urging them to vote yes to staying in the Eurozone. As Athens prepares to pass on a debt payment to the IMF
tomorrow, Greek people raced to cash machines to withdraw what they could, which is only 60 euros per day because to prevent a run on the banks, the
government has just closed the banks until next Monday, which will be the day after the referendum.
Constantine Michalos is the president of the Union of Greek Chamber of Commerce and he joins me live from Athens.
AMANPOUR: Welcome to the program.
So this is the 11th hour, Mr. Michalos.
CONSTANTINE MICHALOS, PRESIDENT, GREEK CHAMBER OF COMMERCE: Thank you.
AMANPOUR: Is there any chance, as some are still saying, of a rescue for Greece, will it agree to the terms of the creditors?
MICHALOS: Well, the week for the business community here in Greece started under unthinkable and unseen circumstances with the banks remaining closed
and I will have the opportunity tomorrow morning at 11 o'clock when I meet with the prime minister, Mr. Tsipras, to put forward the case not just for
the business community but for the country as a whole, because as you know, we're not a productive based here in Greece and we wouldn't be able to
withstand the pressures and anything else that would come under a national currency.
So even at this 11th hour, the duty of the government is to sit around the negotiating table with our European partners and lenders and try to find a
solution of last resort.
And I am saying this as a representative of the business community in this Greece, when I'm fully aware that the measures that have been recommended
by the European side but also by the Greek government are very detrimental and very punishing towards the business community. We need to stand up as
a country. The national interest is above everything else and this is what we need to do at the moment.
AMANPOUR: Mr. Michalos, has the Greek prime minister passed the buck to the people?
I mean, let's face it, this referendum -- and I'm going to read it out -- "Should the draft agreement submitted by the E.C., ECB, IMF at the
Eurogroup on June 25, which consists of two parts that make up their full proposal, be accepted?"
It goes on, "The first document is titled 'Reforms for the completion of the current program and beyond," and the second, 'Preliminary debt
I mean, I wouldn't even understand what I was voting for.
Are the people getting a fair shot at this question or not?
MICHALOS: Well, I agree with you; unfortunately the sound -- the incoming sound is not that good because we've got thousands of Athenians chanting in
the background. But I think that I got the overall gist of your question.
It is impossible for anyone who hasn't studied basic economic theory to be able to understand exactly what the question is. And to be quite honest
with you, I think we're looking towards a charade referendum on Sunday simply because the constitution in Greece here clearly stipulates that all
the ballot papers and the full preparation for the referendum needs to be completed and everything needs to be in place five days before the
referendum, which is tomorrow morning, tomorrow afternoon, Tuesday.
Unfortunately, the only thing we've had so far is this complicated question that you referred to, which I'm sure that a large percentage of the
electorate would not be able to comprehend. And the direction -- the directive that was given on the 25th of January to Mr. Tsipras and his
government was to find a solution with our partners.
Unfortunately it is looking to include within the responsibility factors the Greek people. And I don't think that this is the right solution. It
has to find a solution with the government and with the other political parties in Greece.
AMANPOUR: Mr. Michalos, what are the people chanting behind you?
Where do you think the people are on this question?
MICHALOS: Well, today is the gathering of the so-called "No" group. Tomorrow is going to be the "Yes" group. I'm sure that no one in Greece
wants to have, whether they belong to one or the other group, they don't want more austerity. I appreciate that. I don't want more austerity.
The private sector has suffered enough over the last 5.5 years, taking the full brunt of all the austerity measures that have been applied. However,
if we want the country to continue standing up, then we have to vote for yes. Otherwise, as of Monday morning, I think that it's not just the banks
that will be closing down; we're going to lose all the dialogue between our European partners and of course our lenders.
So it's an absolute must because it will allow us to continue standing up in the pitch; it will allow us to continue arguing because any other
solution will simply kick us off the playing ground. And we're going to be on our own without being able to stand up at all.
AMANPOUR: Mr. Michalos, Constantine Michalos, the head of the Greek Chamber of Commerce, thank you very much indeed for joining us with very,
very dire warnings indeed. Thank you so much, that dramatic backdrop behind you just painting the full picture.
AMANPOUR: And of course this volleying back and forth between Greece and its European creditors is like a spectator sport, as this cartoon perfectly
sums up. It also happens to come as a signal on the very first day of what's considered the king of tennis tournaments, Wimbledon started today.
And up next, we imagine a world where the king of Wimbledon tries to recapture his crown.
AMANPOUR: Welcome back to the program. It is that time of year when thousands upon thousands descend on Wimbledon to see the tennis giants make
Grand Slam history, including the World number 2 and the seven-time Wimbledon winner, champion Roger Federer, who has earned a reputation as
one of the greatest tennis players of all time.
And I caught up with him in between training and family life to find out just how he's managed to stay at the top of his game for so long.
AMANPOUR: Roger Federer, welcome to our program.
ROGER FEDERER, TENNIS PRO: Thank you very much.
AMANPOUR: Do you have another Grand Slam title in you?
FEDERER: I think so. I really do. Won four titles this year; I came close last year, five sets here against Novak, Cilic at the U.S. open. So
I know I can do it. It's just that some guys just are really playing very well in some moments. And that's where I also have to elevate my game and
play my very best, because anything other than not playing your best against the best when they're hot is not going to do it.
AMANPOUR: Who has been your toughest opponent ever?
FEDERER: Probably Nadal, just because of his playing style; that he's a lefty as well has made things more complicated.
Plus we've had a lot of matches on clay, where he reigns supreme. He's the best ever on clay hands down. So he's been a tough -- probably the
most challenging and most fun to play against just because of his character and he's been unbelievable for the game. So I've loved our rivalry.
AMANPOUR: New generation and you're still going, as we've discussed. You're 33 years old; they might call you the old man of the tour. But
you're still proving that you can do it.
How do you still do it? You know, not just your skill but the discipline, the fitness, the fact that Rafa has been injured several times and you've
managed somehow to play in a way that's allowed you to keep playing this long.
FEDERER: Yes, that's the thing. I've been somewhat lucky as well to stay injury free, because you can always get unlucky and break something, tear
something. And that just goes with -- it just happens. So for me, I've never had to have surgery; I've never had an injection. Having to play
with painkillers; fine. I've had to do that. But other than that, it's been very much focused on healthy lifestyle, enjoying the traveling, the
practice, the matches, having the right team around yourself. My wife's obviously been the rock behind it all. She's been with me throughout my
first title until today. So she's incredibly important.
So just looking at all these things I've done probably -- taken a lot of right decisions along the way.
AMANPOUR: Mirka, your wife, you met her at the Sydney Olympics in 2000. She was a player herself and had to retire, I suppose, because of injury.
FEDERER: Exactly, yes.
AMANPOUR: You've got her on the team with you and you've got now two sets of twins, basically on your team and traveling with you.
Is it good for the -- for your psyche, does it distract you? Does it sustain you?
FEDERER: I would be unhappy on the tour without them. And then I would retire. So for me, it only works this way. And I'm totally happy also not
to play anymore. But I prefer it this way. And as long as my wife in particular and also the kids can manage it and actually enjoy, because at
the end of the day, it's supposed to be something we enjoy doing, it allows me to keep playing. And my wife is so happy and eager for me to be happy
and successful still on the tour. And my girls, who understand it all now a little bit because they're turning 6 this year, they love traveling to
all these places now that they've got to know. It's the only life they know, really, on the tour. And they've gotten to have so many friends now
as well everywhere. So it's unbelievably exciting. And of course it's good for my mind to -- when I come back from a match and I've lost and
they're there, they don't care if you've won or if you've lost. It's great. But I don't need it as a balance. I'm a very relaxed person, on
and off the court. But clearly it's been a dream come true for me to have four kids with Mirka. It's been wonderful.
AMANPOUR: You seem to have this equanimity about you; losing doesn't put you into some kind of vortex of despair. Andy Murray's mother has been
quoted as saying when he lost to you in 2012 here, he was desperate and sad and weeping for days.
It affects some people but it doesn't seem to affect you.
FEDERER: Not so much. You know? I agree. I think I used to be so emotional when I was younger that I learned from that. I cried too often
when I was younger, all the way from, I'd say, 8 to about 20. I was unbelievably emotional. Listen, every time I lost I would basically cry,
even as a pro, sometimes on court, sometimes -- I couldn't manage to get off the court and then break down, which was better. But eventually I got
my act together and now I take it like a man and five minutes later I'm fine again, of course. I'm also disappeared that I have to wait a year
until Wimbledon rolls around or until the next Olympics comes around, takes four years. But it's just -- it goes with the territory. You can't win
the all but what you can do is give it all you have and once you have no regrets I think you can accept losses also a little bit easier.
AMANPOUR: I'm fascinating by what you say because so many children these days seem to be so pressured, weeping on court, having tempers, whatever,
And you say you had a bit of that.
FEDERER: Yes, I did have that.
AMANPOUR: But you had parents who didn't push you to excess.
FEDERER: No, the thing is I think we were very realistic about my chances. We didn't believe that I was going to be a successful professional tennis
player -- maybe a successful junior on a local or national level, yes, fine. But not internationally, really competing at Wimbledon to win.
So for my parents very much just strict in the sense that it's supposed to be a privilege to go to practice and go to matches on the weekends. So
please put in your best effort, just like for us, you know, because it does cost money. And it's our time. Otherwise we'd rather spend it with your
sister or our friends and you do the things at home around the house.
So I got that message eventually and I understand very clearly what she meant because I have kids of my own now and of course when you put in the
effort, you at least would like your kids to give you their best effort as well.
AMANPOUR: Billie Jean King -- obviously the greatest champion and a huge Wimbledon record holder -- she has likened you to Baryshnikov or Nureyev,
in that you have this balletic quality about what you do. Obviously they hung up their ballet shoes.
Do you ever feel that it's time to hang up the tennis shoes or the racquet.
FEDERER: I think hopefully never, really, you know. But maybe on a professional level, you have to eventually because the body or the mind
will just say, you know what, it's been great but let's do other things in life as well because it's only a short span of your life. But let's make
the most of it. And then I hope I still play for fun with my friends, with my kids, with my wife in the future. So I'll never probably really retire.
But the day will come and I'll be totally happy probably doing that as well.
AMANPOUR: Let me just read you this quote from Floyd Mayweather. He said about boxing, "It's my job. I go to the gym, I train, I go home, I do what
I have to do. At one particular time, it was fun. But I'm to a point to where I'm really over all of this."
Is it still fun?
FEDERER: Yes, no, I don't see it as a job really. I still see it as the - - my hobby that became this dreamland I can move about. Like I explained, for me, it was never -- I never dreamed this far in my dreams, to be this
professional tennis player. So of course going to the gym and going to work out, yes. I would rather do other things at times. But at the end of
the day, I know why I'm doing it because I love playing on Centre Court. I love traveling the world and I make a lot of sacrifices to make it all work
and I love doing what I'm doing. So I never saw it as a job per se to be quite honest.
AMANPOUR: Roger Federer, thank you very much indeed.
FEDERER: My pleasure, thank you.
AMANPOUR: And as Federer sets out for another record, imagine a world where the tastiest champion at Wimbledon is a fruit, a once-a-year world of
strawberries and cream, the favorite Wimbledon fortnight snack. More than 28,000 kilos of strawberries will be eaten there in the next two weeks,
drenched in 7,000 liters of cream.
And that also tops it off for our program tonight. Remember you can always see the whole show online at amanpour.com, and follow me on Facebook and
Twitter. Thanks for watching and goodbye from London.