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Dr. Drew
Same-Sex Marriage Is Now Legal In All 50 States; Caitlin Jenner At The "Pride" Celebration In New York City; The Latest On Bobbi Kristina Brown`s Condition; The 7-Eleven Employees Who Was Caught On Video Fighting With A Couple Of Customers; Paris Hilton Got Pranked; Shabani, The New Heartthrob On Social Media
Aired June 29, 2015 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(21:00:15) DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Tonight, same-sex marriage is now legal in all 50 states. Some do not accept this decision, and perhaps
never will. Plus, Caitlin Jenner at the "Pride" celebration in New York City and the latest on Bobbi Kristina Brown`s condition. It all starts
right now with the "Top of the Feed." Marriage equality is the law of the land. To many, it is a joy and to some, dismay. Take a look.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: So many words have been spoken over the last few days. I am not sure what else remains to be said, other than
"Hell, yes."
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PRES. BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: No, no, no, no. No, no, no, no. No, no, no, no. Hey! Yeah, listen, you are
in my house.
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DONALD TRUMP, TELEVISION PERSONALITY/AMERICAN BUSINESS MAGNATE: I have a great marriage. I have a great wife now -- and my two wives were
very good. I am for traditional marriage.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF STATES, OBAMA ADMINISTRATION: LBGT Americans should be free, not just to marry, but to
live, learn, and work just like everybody else.
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TED CRUZ, (R) TEXAS, JUNIOR U.S. SENATOR: I have introduced an amendment to protect the authority of state legislatures to define marriage
as the union of one man and one woman.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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CHELY BLITZER-WRIGHT, COUNTRY MUSIC START: All of these people who are trying to stir the pot of hate about people like us, they have gay
children, they have gay siblings.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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PINSKY: Joining us Loni Coombs, former prosecutor, author of "You`re Perfect And Other Lies Parents Tell." Vanessa Barnett, HipHollywood.com
and Michael Catherwood, my "Love Line" and KABC Radio co-host, and Erica America on Skype, radio host, psychotherapist. Loni, opponents are citing
religion as their reason on what basis. How do they -- what logic is that?
LONI COOMBS, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Well, as you know, a lot of religion base -- you know, some of their fundamental principles is that marriage is
between a man and a woman. What you are hearing a lot right now is that there are a lot of religious institutions are worried about being forced to
have to do gay marriage in their churches or losing their tax exempt status.
PINSKY: Is that real?
COOMBS: Yes, there is a real legal issue. It was even brought up in the arguments before the Supreme Court saying, "Could this be an issue
about losing tax exempt status?"
PINSKY: Is that a state-by-state thing?
COOMBS: Well, hopefully it will be a state-by-state thing and hopefully the states will say, "Look, we are going to carve out these
exemptions for religions and the same-sex marriage and perhaps they can continue to keep their tax-exempt status. I do not want the discussion to
go there, but that is where a lot of the religions are taking it.
PINSKY: Mike, you and I have been dealing with it in the radio, quite a bit.
MICHAEL CATHERWOOD, DR. DREW`S CO-HOST IN "LOVE LINE" KABC RADIO: Yes.
PINSKY: And, it seems like people are going to sort of these extreme points of view, where they are using the bible to hit people over the head.
And, the bible is being used to harm people rather than to find forgiveness.
CATHERWOOD: Yes.
PINSKY: You tell me.
CATHERWOOD: Yes, and I do not necessarily understand. Because, obviously, everyone is entitled to their religious beliefs and to their
moral beliefs, but I do not understand how that applies to the constitution of the United States, which is what this issue really has at its core.
And, you know, it is no secret that most Christians are not in favor of the idea of homosexuality or gay marriage, at that. But, I do not see
how that has anything to do with the legality of it here in this country.
COOMBS: Well, as a lawyer on the panel --
CATHERWOOD: Yes.
COOMBS: I am just going to say, a lot of people say the constitution does not define marriage and should not define marriage. That is something
that, you know, we as a society has kind of made up as we went along. And, so, that is why they are saying, now for the Supreme Court to step in and
say, "We are now going to tell you what marriage is," maybe that is too much of the government getting involved in defining certain things.
VANESSA BARNETT, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Look, I am a Christian, I am very proud to be a Christian, but I think is when you say things like
people are using the bible to knock people down as a tool of hatred, I think you have the extreme few that are somehow now speaking for the rest
of us, and I do not think that is fair.
I do not think you can say we are all just taking our bibles and smacking people over the heads with them. I think what the bible does say,
it does speak about homosexuality, but it also speaks about adultery. The bible speaks about burglary and robbing and thieving and all these -- and
murder and blasphemy and so many things that us as human beings are not supposed to do.
So, it is not my job to come into anyone`s household and tell them who they should marry and what they should do. And, I am a Christian. I am
saying that as a Christian woman, that is not my job. My job is to love thy neighbor.
PINSKY: Let us bring in -- I want to bring in Brian Sorba. He is chairman of the Young Conservatives of California. Ryan, there you are.
Thank you for joining us. Why do you care what people do in their intimate lives?
RYAN SORBA, CHAIRMAN OF THE YOUNG CONSERVATIVES OF CALIFORNIA: I do not think anybody cares. And, so I think the next step should be polygamy,
Dr. Drew, because what do we care? No, no, no. Kids already have four parents, do not think?
Like kids they have stepparents. They have single parents, why cannot they have four parents. And, why are you going to decide for another
person who is in a polygamist relationship whether or not they have a good relationship? Why are you going to judge them and decide for them? --
PINSKY: I am trying to follow you, I genuinely --
BARNETT: No, I get what he is saying. I get what he is saying,
PINSKY: I generally do not try to judge.
BARNETT: You are mad at him because he does not share your views on - -
PINSKY: I do not know what his views are yet.
BARNETT: Well, but he is saying, the way the audience just grumbled at the thought of polygamy, they in that community, they feel that is
right, they feel that that is a right way of family for them.
(21:05:00) SORBA: So, how can you be against polygamy if you are in favor of marriage being about love. If people are in pollyamerish triad
and they love each other --
PINSKY: Yes.
SORBA: Why cannot they get married?
CATHERWOOD: Well, I think because -- I mean mostly because we have -- Whether you define marriage only as between a man and a woman or not, we
all can agree that marriage, at least the way we traditionally looked at it is between one person and another.
SORBA: I thought it was about love, because the argument in this case was about love, conferring dignity upon individuals who love each other.
And, if that is the definition of marriage, why not polygamy? Why cannot I marry myself? Why am I being discriminated against because I am not
married, so why do not I get a tax break?
CATHERWOOD: Listen --
SORBA: I love myself?
CATHERWOOD: -- I will speak openly about the fact that marriage is not always about love. I mean I am a man who has gone through divorce and
I probably --
SORBA: I personally agree with that statement. And, if you have not noticed, I have been playing devil`s advocate. But, I believe that
marriage is grounded in human nature and flows from reason. I think marriage is about procreation and education. I think it is about
biological reproduction and intellectual reproduction, which takes a long time. What do you guys think?
BARNETT: I do not agree with that at all. That is my problem. See, I am not mad about, you know, who wants to marry who and who determines
what love is. My problem is the sanctity of marriage. No one seems to care that marriage is supposed to be taken very seriously.
And it is a commitment that you make to God and to that other person. So, I feel like marriage as a whole, whether you are marrying a man or a
woman or whatever has just been kind of thrown out the window. And, people do it way carelessly. I am more mad about that than I am about a guy
marrying a guy.
SORBA: I would argue. I am still trying to follow your logic. But first to address Vanessa`s thing, which is I would argue that the fact that
the gay community has fought so hard for the privilege of marriage brings marriage back to its level of importance that it should have.
The millennials have tossed it aside as just a piece of paper. People are not any longer talking about it as just a piece of paper, because the
public discourse has been about the privileges and the importance of the commitment. And, so I am surprised that conservatives are not more
interested in how this has moved, the idea of marriage into a more important status.
SORBA: Right, and my issue is, if marriage is about dignity, conferring dignity upon those who love each other, why cannot people have
polygamy?
COOMBS: Well, you know --
SORBA: Because there are people that are Muslim, and I hope you respect their religion.
COOMBS: Right. Well --
SORBA: And it is a part of their religion that they should have polygamy.
COOMBS: That is a slippery slope argument that everybody says. Whatever --
SORBA: But it is not.
COOMBS: Whatever --
SORBA: It is not.
COOMBS: -- But let me speak now. Wherever there is a change, people are going to say, I am going to go all the way down the slope.
SORBA: But you are saying it is about love.
COOMBS: I get that, but that is why there are the courts. We work with what the society as a general are saying. We are still going with the
majority. The majority --
SORBA: But you have got to have a rational purpose.
COOMBS: But the laws do evolve with our society. You cannot say, we do not make up laws. That is the way our country has been built upon the
constitution, whether the laws change --
SORBA: So, who is against polygamy?
COOMBS: -- our society move along.
SORBA: Who is against polygamy?
PINSKY: A little bit. I am a little bit.
SORBA: You are a little bit? A little bit?
PINSKY: Because I am trying not to judge.
SORBA: I am going to ask the panel. Who is against polygamy?
PINSKY: Hang on a second.
CATHERWOOD: I do not care enough. I really do not care.
SORBA: So, you would be OK with polygamy.
CATHERWOOD: It is not for me. I mean --
(LAUGHING)
SORBA: But you would not mind if Muslims and in some cases Mormons have polygamy?
CATHERWOOD: Probably not.
BARNETT: What exactly is the agenda?
CATHERWOOD: I would rather a gay and a lesbian individual in America be able to get married if that means we have to have polygamy than neither
--
SORBA: What about self-marriage? What about self-marriage?
CATHERWOOD: Hey, if I could marry myself, I have been loving myself in private for an awful long time. If I could marry myself --
PINSKY: Hold on, guys. I got Erica out there on Skype. She has been trying to ring in here. Erica, I want to get your comments. Go ahead.
ERICA AMERICA, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: You know, I just want to say, you know what -- first of all, your holding on too much to this polygamy thing.
You have got to step it down.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: A little bit.
AMERICA: Second of all, if you want to look into, you know, one day marrying ourselves, as a country, we will. This is about the pursuit of
happiness. And, now, love wins is about that people who are homosexual are being allowed to pursuit happiness. No have happiness, because as we know,
marriage does not equal happiness. They are allowed to sue it.
So, that is what it means to be in this country. It means that we can look at it like Loni was saying, from a legal perspective and an
educational perspective. Where do we need to look right now in our country where we are? Do we need to look at essentially marrying ourselves? If
that eventually comes up, it will. But it has not yet.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Erica, hold on a second. Hold on. Audience -- hold on a second. -- We got an audience comment. Go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: The issue that I see is more that this law discriminates against a group with the sexual orientation. Polygamy is
not a sexual orientation, so to me I do not feel like this argument holds any water.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: All right. Let me do this. Ryan says it is. I say I do not care really. I have got to think it through before I take an opinion on
this. We will continue this conversation.
And later on, I will give you the latest on Bobbi Kristina. Family members seem to be gathering to say good-bye. She is under hospice care
now. We will get into what that means after this.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
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(21:10:00) (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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(21:04:08) DR. ROBERT JEFFRESS, FIRST BAPTIST CHURCH OF DALLAS, TEXAS: The judge of all the universe has already given his decision on the
matter. God has said marriage is between one man and one woman.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (1): I am so stoked about pride this year, because it is marriage equality all over the United States of America.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (2): God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: I was 30 years in the army and could never have imagined this moment.
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PINSKY: And same-sex marriage is law, but it does not mean the debate is over. The Duggars rang in, by posting a biblical verse on their
Facebook page. It reads in part, "If my people turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and I will forgive their sin." Back
with Loni, Vaness and Mike. Loni, forgiveness something people losing track of these days.
COOMBS: Yes.
PINSKY: Except if Charleston, where they were leaving the way.
COOMBS: Yes.
PINSKY: And showing us how positive it is --
COOMBS: Such a beautiful way. Yes.
PINSKY: Yes.
COOMBS: You know, I wish the Duggars -- they are a very high-profile example of Christian families. And, I wish that they would focus more on
loving one another as opposed to judging and calling people wicked.
(21:15:08) BARNETT: No, that is not judging them. That is something that is written in the word and that they believe and that is OK to believe
that.
COOMBS: I get that.
BARNETT: Just because they post that, and that is what the word of the Lord says, it does not mean they are judging you. Because as we all
know, they have some flaws within their family as well.
COOMBS: Right.
BARNETT: But, they are just sharing the word of Jesus Christ. They is what we are here to do.
COOMBS: But Vanessa, why do you think they did it at this exact moment?
BARNETT: Because they --
COOMBS: There is a reason why.
BARNETT: People want to know what they think.
COOMBS: Right. Right.
BARNETT: And, they are not saying, I judge you, I am better than you, they are saying we all need to turn from their wicked ways.
CATHERWOOD: Also, they should probably divert attention away from the molestation that goes on in their own family.
PINSKY: But -- but --
CATHERWOOD: That is probably why they are coming out with comments.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: They are talking about forgiveness and love, which is something that is the opposite of being judging and condemning.
BARNETT: But who is saying they are judging -- if that is what they believe in and that is the word of the Lord. I know bible scriptures and
because I quote them, does not mean I love anyone any less. I know people who have cheated on the wives, that is adultery. I am not loving you any
less when I tell you, "Oh, you are wrong." "That is wrong."
CATHERWOOD: I guess, my question is honestly, what is the major overreaching problem here? It is not like -- you understand, you do not
have to marry a gay guy or a lesbian, like that is not the new rule. It is not like someone -- you must be in a gay marriage now.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: We are not talking about behavior that hurts another person. We are talking about endorsing and codifying through people that love --
BARNETT: I am talking about behavior that is listed in the bible. If we are going to go through them all, we got to go through them all. We are
all doing something we have got no business doing. I am going to go through them all.
PINSKY: Let me bring in from -- our HLN Contributor, Sian-Pierre Regis. He is in our audience. You heard the slippery slope argument from
Ryan. You have heard Vanessa`s concerns -- I think. I am not actually sure I heard Vanessa`s concern exactly. Everyone is all over the place.
Help us out.
SIAN-PIERRE REGIS, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes. You know, I think to me, all of you all, you, the Duggars, sound like haters. That is what it comes
down to. I mean, this is pure --
SORBA: I do not think that --
REGIS: Listen --
SORBA: I do not think that is --
REGIS: Sir, I gave you time, give me time, OK?
SORBA: Go ahead.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
REGIS: Your moment of polygamy, all of that sounds really crazy. What this basically is, is love is love. There are men who love each other
in the United States, women who love each other, and that we are not giving these people the same rights that you, sir, that you sit next to me, we are
equal. I have the same rights as you. How dare you try and deny me the same rights as you, sir. We are both here, together.
SORBA: First and foremost, I want to respond by saying that I do not see where he gets off calling people haters in America, just because they
disagree with what he has to say.
REGIS: You are hating on something that I am believing--
SORBA: I am not hating --
REGIS: -- and that is a part of me.
SORBA: Why you yelling at me right now?
REGIS: Because you are speaking --
(LAUGHING)
SORBA: Listen. There are so many people and you are angry --
PINSKY: Whoa, whoa!
SORBA: You are conveying hate. You are conveying hate right now.
REGIS: -- Because they do not have a voice and I am trying to be their voice right now.
SORBA: You are conveying hate.
PINSKY: Let me step in. Let me step in. I am not supposed to get up out of my seat. So, wait, wait, wait.
(LAUGING)
Let us be rationale, Let us be cool --
REGIS: No --
PINSKY: Whoa, whoa, whoa. Let me go back to -- Let us just sort of dispatch the polygamy thing and just say look, at this point in the
argument -- Loni, back me up on this about marriage, it is between two humans, regardless of sexual orientation.
SARBO: Then it is not about love --
PINSKY: It is not about love necessarily, although people may make it -- I am kind of disagreeing with him, framing it that way, because your
frame is very different. You are using love in a very --
BARNETT: Whoa! Whoa!
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Thank you.
CATHERWOOD: Why would you stop him! That would have been great T.V.
PINSKY: It would have been good. It would have been good.
CATHERWOOD: That would have been awesome television. He wants to marry his chair.
PINSKY: No. I do not want to marry my chair. I do not want to have any relationship with my chair. I just want -- listen.
Generally,speaking, would you agree that as society has moved forward progressively, has it been -- have things unraveled? Have we destroyed
ourselves because of more progressive attitudes? I mean can only people have been kind of happier?
SORBA: I mean you can look at statistical facts from the `70s until now and see that --
REGIS: `70s?
SORBA: -- individual`s S.A.T. scores have gone down, rates of abuse have fluctuated, but the issue here is not just physical consequences.
What you are conveying here is an argument based on like consequentialism, like if I do something and it has a negative consequence, I therefore
should not do it and it is bad. But in reality, what the goal of life is, is just contact with reality. You have an intellect to know truth.
BARNETT: Huh?
REGIS: And, you are supposed to come into touch with truth. And, what this is, is it is ordering your emotions and making them number one.
And, the purpose here is to order your emotions in accord with reason.
PINSKY: OK.
CATHERWOOD: But -- But here is the thing. The truth is that marriage ideally would be about love, but the reality of it is that marriage in this
country is a contract. It is a legal contract.
PINSKY: OK. Hold on.
CATHERWOOD: And you know, Drew, when crap hits the fan -- when people at the end of their life, you need to have that binding contract.
PINSKY: I am telling you, I have dealt with aging population for my entire medical life. And, when I hear young people calling it just a piece
of paper, I mortified.
BARNETT: Yes.
PINSKY: Because you do need that structure. You do need those laws legal recourses.
COOMBS: Right.
(21:20:00) PINSKY: Yes, ma`am?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Well, I agree with everyone here. I mean I am a Christian girl. I mean I go to church every Sunday or honestly
every year, but I have my own spiritual time with God and I believe what I believe. However, I think that everybody has their time that they are
going to stand before God at the pearly gates and be judged by God, only God can judge.
PINSKY: So, in the meantime, what do we do?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Be who you are, be everything that you believe.
PINSKY: So, I am not sure whether you are going for polygamy or love. I am not sure which side of the slippery slope are you on.
BARNETT: Mind your business!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Exactly. Be who you were, because only God can judge you. And when you stand before the pearly gates, you are
with God and he is the only one. So, who are you -- every one of us lives in a glass house, so we should not throw stones.
COOMBS: Right. Right.
SORBA: I think there is a --
BARNETT: And everyone should have rights, everyone. No matter who you love, should have rights. Everyone -- we are all human beings. We
should all have those rights.
PINSKY: What are you saying? Wait, wait, wait, what do you mean? So, what?
BARNETT: I do not think -- we should not be able to determine what marriage is, that is nobody is -- everybody --
PINSKY: We have to decide that.
BARNETT: I think everyone determines what that is for themselves.
PINSKY: No!
BARNETT: At the end of the day -- No, I believe --
PINSKY: We are a society of laws.
BARNETT: I think this is more about the rights, like if someone is on their deathbed, you should not tell them they cannot see their loved ones
because they are man and a man. That is crazy to me. Everyone should have those rights.
PINSKY: Remember we had that case with a woman with dementia who wanted to see her husband and cuddle with him and he was accused of
sexually abuse?
CATHERWOOD: Heartbreaking. Heartbreaking.
BARNETT: Exactly. Exactly.
PINSKY: Heartbreaking. I mean there are situations where if you do not pay attention with the law, you will bear --
COOMBS: Right. Right.
PINSKY: The law is there to help us with these things, not to hinder us.
BARNETT: Correct.
PINSKY: And, I really believe so strongly, Ryan wherever else you go with this, I am going to tell you, mark my words, the fact that you fought
so hard for this privilege is going to elevate the status of marriage in this country. I really believe that. Got to wrap that one up and go next
to Caitlyn Jenner, who makes the first public appearance at a pride event. We are back after this.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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(21:25:52)
AMERICA: OK. #ObsessedWithCaitlyn. Let me just say that.
PINSKY: OK.
AMERICA: She looks beautiful.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZOEY TUR, TRANSGENDER REPORTER: With respect to the way Jenner has come out, it has been a staged rollout, based on ratings, based on sweeps
week.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AURORA PESICHETTI, TRANSGENDER YOUTUBER: I completely understand why she would feel dysphoric or distressed after the surgery. You are really
swollen and you do not look like yourself for a while.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
T UR: For anyone to say that this is a transgender person moving at their pace is absurd.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Caitlin Jenner made her first public appearance on Saturday at a Pride Event in New York City. We got some Instagram pictures. There
you go. I am back with Loni, Vanessa, Mike, Erica. There is more of Caitlyn.
Now, John Oliver made an interesting point last night about why we should not be confused about what to -- how to refer to transgender
individuals. It is clever. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN OLIVER, ENGLISH TELEVISION HOST: What do I call a transgender person? It is so confusing? Actually, it is pretty simple. Call them
whatever they want to be called. You can do it. We do it all the time.
Over the past 20 years, we have agreed to call this man Puff Daddy, P. Diddy, just Diddy, and now Puff Daddy again, and most people do not even
like him.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: And do not forget, the artist formerly known as Prince, or just a symbol, whatever he is called now. Sian Pierre,what do you think?
REGIS: I think that Caitlyn Jenner is amazing. I think that the best thing of what she is brought to the table is visibility, right? There are
so many transgender women and men that, A. have not been visible, and B. the rights are working not in their favor. Thanks to conservatives to my
right.
So, I am just hopeful. I am so hopeful for this moment. I hope that we see more trans women that do not look like Caitlyn Jenner, that have not
been able to fully get the surgery. Like, let us see what real transgender looks like.
PINSKY: It is also arranged. I am coming to understand that transgenders is a range of phenomenon, not just people that are completing
the transformation. But Ryan, I do not understand why conservatives would not want to be inclusive. What does it do? What is the problem with that,
you know?
SORBA: Well, first of all, relating to Caitlyn Jenner, I just want to say that I think we should be careful about this issue.
PINSKY: I am afraid of what you are going to say next. But, whatever it is --
SORBA: I am going to tell you the truth, and the truth is that according to the American Society for Suicide Prevention --
PINSKY: Yes.
SORBA: Transgenders -- transpeople, and people with gender dysphoria have, you know, a 41 percent suicide rate.
PINSKY: And it is higher after surgery. That is right.
SORBA: And, it is higher after surgery.
PINSKY: However --
SORBA: Be careful about this issue.
PINSKY: Yes. It is a serious issue. No. You are absolutely right. And there are people working on it. But let me say this, as a sort of
pragmatic issue. People with mental health are struggling with it. They are not trying to force somebody into a specific gender box.
They are trying to help people flourish, OK, and diminish their symptomology. And, this is the way -- I am not an expert in this, but this
is the way -- it seems to have the best outcomes. On the phone, I want to bring Michael Voris, a Catholic Journalist from ChristianMilitant.com --
ChurchMilitant.com. I beg your time, ChurchMilitant.com. Michael, what are your thoughts about this?
MICHAEL VORIS, CATHOLIC JOURNALIST, CHURCHMILITANT: Well, I think if you look at this -- first of all, thanks for having me on. If you look at
this from a psychological and even a theological viewpoint, which you know of course there is a great, you know, convergence of those two things, that
the idea that somebody has a different psychological makeup than their own DNA is preposterous.
PINSKY: But -- so -- so --
VORIS: Now, can they suffer from that?
PINSKY: Right.
VORIS: Wait a second. Can they suffer from it psychologically? Sure, they can. Can they think that? Sure. You know, I can think I am a
black man trapped in a white man`s body and I want to have some kind of surgery for it. But does that make it right --
PINSKY: So, Michael -- Michael, hang on. So, if a medical community is trying to help that person flourish, whatever that means for that given
individual, not squeeze them into a box that we feel they need to be in, what do you do other than try to help them restore a sense of mood,
stability, and a sense of self that is congruent with who they want to be and seems to improve their flourishing? What is wrong with that?
(21:30:00) VORIS: Well, that is the point right there, that it does not improve their flourishing. We already heard one of the staffs there,
that there is a massive suicide rate, and the more they progress into an idea of, you know, becoming, so to speak -- I will put that in air quotes,
"becoming a different sex," the more the suicide rate goes up. And not to mention just a case of suicide. But this is a --
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: I would argue -- Michael, I -- there is concern -- well, but I would argue that maybe we are not choosing the right population to have
surgical interventions upon. But Erica, you are my mental health professional here. Are you worried about this?
AMERICA: I am sorry. I miss what had you said?
PINSKY: Are you concerned about this? How do you ring in on this conversation?
AMERICA: Oh, no. I mean I think that everything going on is positive with the transgender community. I think it is a wonderful thing. And,
unfortunately, the religious argument to me, it sounds like it is here.
But I do not quite understand, and it puzzles me greatly, for both of these nice young gentleman speaking. It does not affect them in any way.
We are not asking them to change their bodies or marry a gay person or anything like that. It is other people.
PINSKY: Erica, let me --
SORBA: Bad company corrupts good character. And, so to say what other people do around you does not corrupt your character is completely a
front to reason.
PINSKY: Hold on. Hang on -- Erica, hold on. Erica , hold on.
BARNETT: That is brought up a lot. Why do you care? Why do you care? The question is there. Everybody on one side can have their
opinions, but the minute someone has a disagreeing opinion. It is like, "Why do you care? Why do you care?"
We care because we are being asked. And, so if you do not agree with his opinion. Fine, do not agree with him, but do not all of a sudden
wonder why he is talking about it. He is being asked about it. That is crazy.
CATHERWOOD: A lot of times, the argument to anybody who is contrary to the idea of transgender or transsexuality is the high suicide rate. But
when people who are not psychiatric professionals or medical professionals start to get into that territory, it is very upsetting to me, because no
one seems to care about a community that has a much larger suicide rate, and that is veterans. But because what they do does not infringe on their
moral beliefs, it is like, well, let them do what they want to do. They chose to join the military.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Real quick. Question or comment?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Yes, I was wondering, we talk about that this needs to be talked about carefully. The being transgender,
though, is not the suicide-related more to the discrimination and the --
PINSKY: Well, that is the theory. The theory is that -- but again, that is the realm for experts, not for this room, frankly. I mean none of
us are experts in this area. I mean Erica, you are the closest to the field right now. And, I would say that, yes, there are all kinds of
explanations and concerns about why this is happening to this population.
It appears that the best possible outcome is the approach that -- are the predominant approaches today. Now, whether or not that is going to be
looked at back some day as the incorrect approach, I do not know. I am interested in what -- I am a pragmatist. I am interested in what helps
people, what helps people flourish. That is what I like. Erica?
AMERICA: Yes, Dr. Drew, you are completely right. And, I think, why there is so much therapy before there is a huge change is like this is you
are making sure that it is not just a psychological issue. This is something that the person really wants to do, it is in their heart.
PINSKY: Yes.
AMERICA: It is in their DNA, basically. So, I just --
PINSKY: Yes. We do not know if it is in DNA or not, but people argue about that. But the point is, we are in the middle of an evolution in this
whole matter. And, Let us. I keep going back to -- we just did Charleston last week. We all need to pull together. Let us get together! Ryan, I am
glad you have your opinions. Vanessa, I am glad -- Let us bring it together.
BARNETT: That does not mean everyone has to agree.
PINSKY: I absolutely agree with you. And, that is what Ryan was pushing on Sian Pierre about, and that is fine. Let us allow opinions.
Let us allow -- that is the way this country has flourished. And let us allow -- Let us have in our hearts that each of us should flourish
regardless of our orientation, regardless of our DNA.
You know, we are not allowed to hurt other people. Let us build on empathy. Let us build on trust and knowledge. I am all for that, but let
us get it together. Let us get ourselves together.
Next up, we have the latest on Bobbi Kristina. Just after she now had been moved to hospice care. I will talk to you about that after this.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(21:34:24) (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WHITNEY HOUSTON, BOBBI KRISTINA`S MOTHER (singing): Your love is my love, and my love is yours.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOUSTON: We need these little people to be good and decent human beings and to care about one another.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Her mother died. She lived in us a household where there seemed to be some distance abuse.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: We know that the police had been investigating this since January and nothing has happened. No one has
been arrested.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BOBBI KRISTINA, WHITNEY HOUSTON`S ONLY DAUGHTER (singing): I just want to say, "clap your hands."
HOUSTON (singing): Clap your hands.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: And the sad reality is that little girl and that grown woman is no longer with us. She is gone. And, she is finally moved to hospice
last week, which is an acknowledgement that there is no probability, a zero probability, of her living longer than six months.
Hospice is there to make her comfortable and to put dignity and comfort as the only focus of care. No longer any machines. No longer any
nonsense about waking up. I am back with Loni, Vanessa, Mike, and joining us, Segun Oduolowu, host of "Wired In With Segun" podcast. So, Segun --
that is it, man. All that talk of miracles and everything, please, just -- why cannot doctors do their job anymore? Every time I have a prognosis --
SEGUN ODUOLOWU, HOST OF "WIRED IN WITH SEGUN" PODCAST: Because you are infallible, Dr. Dew. I mean --
PINSKY: I am fallible.
ODUOLOWU: I mean but you make mistakes, right?
PINSKY: We make mistakes and we are fallible, but we will give you some wiggle room. When we say it is zero, it is zero. It is just zero.
Let me tell you. If she woke up -- First of all, there is no waking up.
ODUOLOWU: OK.
PINSKY: She is not asleep. If she opened her eyes after that, it would be an entirely different person with an entirely different set of
abilities to even propagate through the world.
(21:40:00) ODUOLOWU: Well, I think what we are talking about right here segways into what you were talking about before. Who are we to tell a
family when it is OK for them to say good-bye to their dying daughter? And, as I said, it is very interesting to me how secular people love to
think of God in this linear way. What if the miracle is -- yes, she did not wake up, but the family pulled it closer together.
PINSKY: Yes. That is good. It is a wonderful miracle. I am all for it.
ODUOLOWU: So, that is what I am saying. So, yes, they are going to let her go. I have a problem with all of this dignity in death, because
medical professionals say, "Well, she is gone. She is brain dead. She is never going to wake up."
So, if they keep her alive, what does it matter if you are already telling me she is dead. They might as well just let her do what they are
doing now, because they is no dignity in this death. If they are trying to save her, let them save her.
PINSKY: You are wrong. You have never -- No, no, no. There is no saving. You have not seen -- Vanessa, you reacted with what I was saying.
The fact is, people, they ask for, they get pneumonia, their lungs fibrosis, they get contracted, their tissue falls off their bones. It is
terrible.
BARNETT: I get what you are saying. I reacted because you called miracles nonsense. And you knew I was going to give you that reaction.
That is crazy. That is what a miracle is, like a miracle -- it goes beyond any comprehension. So, yes, there are people that still want to pray for
that miracle, by all means, that is what a miracle is. It does not -- you cannot explain it, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: So, for a moment, the laws of physic are --
BARNETT: Yes, because physics and all of that --
ODUOLOWU: But, Dr. Drew, if you believe, like if you believe no explanation is necessary and if you do not know explanation I can give you
will do.
BARNETT: Exactly.
ODUOLOWU: You either have it -- It is the beauty of faith. Either you have it or you do not. Now, yes, is this girl eventually going to die?
For sure. Is it a tragedy? Absolutely.
PINSKY: Yes.
ODUOLOWU: But the miracle of it is, it is bringing a family that was fractured together and if you choose to have that faith, you can look at it
broader that just did not get up.
PINSKY: I am 100 percent with you on that. Erica, help me out with this. Do you have any comments to add?
AMERICA: Yes -- No. I mean, you know, you have been saying this the whole time that this was going to happen. It was hard for people to really
kind of understand, but I think it is something that had to happen.
And, it is nice to hear that Bobbie Brown is now get along with the other side of the family and I think we are going to start to hear some
criminal, the stuff to come up, as soon as, unfortunately, she passes.
PINSKY: Yes. And, Loni, there was a suit against Nick Gordon, who by the way, was photographed -- where was he photographed? Guys, do you want
to help me with that, again?
BARNETT: Florida.
COOMBS: Florida.
PINSKY: Florida, at his home, right? And he was photographed at his home. He is out of treatment, that means. And to my -- that was a kid
that need treatment for a sustained period of time. With the way he behaved with that Dr. Phil interview, that was somebody in real, real, real
trouble. But there is also this lawsuit now.
COOMBS: Yes, it is an interesting lawsuit, Dr. Drew. It is brought by the conservator, who was appointed by the judge to look over the state.
And, essentially, it is a civil lawsuit suing Nick Gordon for $40 million. Essentially saying that he somehow attributed to her wrongful death, in
fact, perhaps, caused it, that there have been a history of abuse, physical abuse.
PINSKY: He punched her in the face and knocked her teeth out.
COOMBS: Yes, Dr. Drew. Dragged her by the hair. I mean there is a very specific allegations in there. And, also, that he have been pulling
money from her accounts including after she was in a coma. He continued to steal money from her accounts.
PINSKY: Vanessa.
BARNETT: Why are they suing for $40 million when they know he does not have it? Why not pursue the criminal? If he beat her, if he killed
her, like why not pursue it that way?
COOMBS: Because the only person that can file criminal charges is the D.A. And, the D.A. has chosen not to up to this point. And, so, that
might have been one of the reasons why they did this. Nick Gordon does not have $40 million.
You are sending a message to him and to the D.A. saying, "Look, this is the evidence. We want to get that evidence out there and perhaps that
will put pressure on the D.A.
CATHERWOOD: That is my next question. Do you think when she unfortunately does pass that there will be criminal charges?
COOMBS: I think there is a good likelihood of that based on the evidence that we are hearing from this civil lawsuit. And, the D.A. has
said, once she got moved to the hospice, now we are going to look at the case more seriously, because once she passes, it will be a murder charge,
if there is one.
ODUOLOWU: Loni, but if they find him guilty for the civil case, he would still do jail time, yes?
COOMBS: Not on a civil case.
PINSKY: Loni. Loni.
COOMBS: It has to be a criminal case.
ODUOLOWU: But if he could not pay? But if he could not pay?
COOMBS: Well, there is going in lieu of -- to get jail time, you have to have criminal charges.
CATHERWOOD: Like Robert Blake, right? Where he is not serving jail time, but he will be working forever to pay back the --
COOMBS: They can go after your money. Yes.
ODUOLOWU: OK.
PINSKY: All right. Listen. Thank you guys. Coming up, I got the 7-Eleven employees who kind of fight with a couple of customers. It is a
video that I cannot even believe that -- what is happening -- again, I am asking the question, what is wrong with us? This video really brings that
to the fore. Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(21:44:33) (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Time for "Click Fix," where the guests tell me what is trending on their Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram feeds. And, Vanessa,
first up?
BARNETT: This has to be the meanest thing I have ever seen. Paris Hilton has a new tape -- No, not sex tape. Do not get excited. But she is
on tape and it is in Dubai. She is on a plane and it just looks like she is going down. It looks like her life is over. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Hey! Hey! Hey!
PARIS HILTON, CELEBRITY: What the (EXPLETIVE WORD) What is happening? Is this normal? It always does this?
CROWD: Ahhh!
HILTON: Oh, my gosh! What is happening!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Do something! Do something!
HILTON: Ahhh! No! Ahhh! No!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: So what was that?
(LAUGHING)
BARNETT: So, the plane was down. There was a T.V. host, he confessed. It was a whole elaborate prank. They made her feel like she
was going to die --
PINSKY: Some sort of --
BARNETT: Never going to happen.
(21:50:00) PINSKY: Listen, everybody always wants bad things to happen to Paris Hilton. How you guys feeling now? Do not you feel sorry a
bad things actually do happen to her? Do you feel it was like, "Huh, poor thing."
BARNETT: She said, it was the scariest moment of her life and she really believed the plane was going to down and she is going to die.
PINSKY: And, for everybody who has wished harm on Paris.
CATHERWOOD: Why cannot we put her brother on that plane.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Mike, what have you got?
CATHERWOOD: All right. So, last week, we were talking about Arnold Schwarzenegger`s appearance on the Howard Stern show and we speculated that
there may be some narcissism there.
PINSKY: No. What we said was that because -- when he went to the therapist with his wife, Maria, he blamed the therapist for things getting
worse.
CATHERWOOD: Yes.
PINSKY: And, I said, he may be discounting feelings because it may be hard for them, because he may have narcissism -- and everyone thinks
narcissism is a bad thing. I do not think pejorative about narcissism. It is a certain strategy that people use.
CATHERWOOD: It just is.
PINSKY: Or feelings do not matter.
CATHERWOOD: Right.
PINSKY: Feelings do not matter.
CATHERWOOD: And, today on the show, Howard and what he frequently called him, Ralph, his stylist, they had some comments about our
conversation.
PINSKY: Well, they got it into the aired our conversation and they said that the therapist might have been bad, just because they are Arnold
and Maria, does not mean they had a good therapist.
And, you know what, Howard is absolutely right. I do not know that it was not the therapist`s fault. So, it is hard for me to argue with
Howard Stern.
CATHERWOOD: Listen to what else they had to say.
PINSKY: All right. Here is what else they talked about.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
RALPH, STYLIST: I like Dr. Drew, too, but it looks like he has had some work done. What do you think, Robin?
ROBIN QUIVERS: I have not seen him lately.
RALPH: He looks --
HOWARD STERN, RADIO HOST: Does not matter, comment anyway, Robin.
(LAUGHING)
QUIVERS: OK. Yes, I think he is pulled back.
(LAUGHING)
STERN: Robin believes Dr. Drew had breast implant.
(LAUGHING)
QUIVERS: Look, I have warned you about Dr. Drew before.
STERN: No. I sense that, that would be crazy, if he got work done. I mean, really?
RALPH: Well, I do not know, he looks like -- he looks, I do not know, more handsome.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Thank you, Ralph! Hold on. Go ahead.
CATHERWOOD: I have to stick up for Dr. Drew. Dr. Drew has had no work done and no one spends more time with him than I do.
PINSKY: Right.
CATHERWOOD: Besides maybe his wife. He has had no work done, except for, we can be honest about the penis reduction.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: I had -- I will tell you --
CATHERWOOD: His wife was constantly --
PINSKY: Stop it. Stop it. Mike! The only thing -- I had laser facial -- a sort of face treatments once. That is the only thing I have
ever, ever, ever done. So, no guys. I have never had any plastic procedure, except the breast implants. I did have that. I love those
guys.
CATHERWOOD: Yes.
PINSKY: Robin, I love you. I know you have issues.
CATHERWOOD: I love your breasts, Robin.
PINSKY: Robin is a genius. And, do you have any final words?
CATHERWOOD: Vavaboey! There you go.
PINSKY: Vanessa?
BARNETT: I am done.
PINSKY: I am sorry. Loni.
COOMBS: OK. In addition to you, Dr. Drew, there is another heartthrob on social media now. His name is Shabani. He is from Japan.
And, there he is! He is a Gorilla! Now, what happened is, he has been in the zoo --
PINSKY: Has he had any work done?
(LAUGHING)
COOMBS: I do not know, but they are talking about how intelligent his eyes are and how big his muscles are. He has been in this zoo since
2007, but because of social media, the young Japanese girls have been talking about him, saying "How hot he is and how handsome."
PINSKY: They are calling him the George Clooney of silverbacks. .
COOMBS: Yes. Yes. And, actually, there is more people going to the zoo now. A lot of young girls are going to see him. He is like the new
heartthrob.
PINSKY: He is a silver fox.
COOMBS: Yes. A real silver gorilla, I guess.
BARNETT: Are there no good men left? We are now talking about hot gorillas.
CATHERWOOD: What is it with Japanese women?
(LAUGHING)
COOMBS: Social media. Boy, that is powerful.
PINSKY: Easy! You are going to go there.
COOMBS: I know.
PINSKY: Better be careful. Next up, a convenience store brawl that ends with the clerks fighting back. There it is. We will get back into
this after this.
(AUDIENCE CHEERING AND APPLAUDING)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(21:53:41) (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(21:57:50) PINSKY: Brawl inside a 7-Eleven, caught on tape. All right, here it is. Keep your eyes on the woman in the coat. She appears
to be intoxicated, and she is arguing with a checkout clerk. She ends up knocking over a display and he chases after her. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY (voice-over): Definitely drug addict behavior, right? Yes, and then a fight breaks out between she -- no, her male friend and the two
clerks. Here is their fight. And then after this fight, she ends up -- yeah, it is nasty. She ends up --
And, what are they fighting over, anyway?
BARNETT (voice-over): Yes! Was that a rug?
PINSKY (voice-over): She ends up reappearing there --
BARNETT (voice-over): Oh, my God!
PINSKY (voice-over): She slaps the clerk. He shoves her. The male friends end up helping her up. She still wants to fight. They do finally
carry her out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Get out of here!
PINSKY (voice-over): No, no, that is not fun. That is not fun.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Get out! (EXPLETIVE WORDS)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Yeah. I mean -- maybe Ryan was right. Maybe we are --
CATHERWOOD: It just be crazy. It just be crazy, Dr. Drew! What makes you think that she was intoxicated?
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: I know, I know. That is the other problem, we never get to really talk about, we do not talk about as much, which is addiction sort of
permeates all the topics we get into here.
CATHERWOOD: What could possibly have made her that angry inside that convenience store?
BARNETT: She did not look angry. She cat crawling. She getting it. She is throwing stuff. That looks like a good time.
PINSKY: Now, I know what Vanessa does in her free time. That is all I am saying.
(LAUGHING)
All right. Great job, audience. Thank you, all, Ryan. Thank you. You can DVR us then you can watch us anytime. We are here. Most of the
time we are live with our audience. So please tune in. In the meantime, we will see you next time.
(21:50:00) (MUSIC PLAYING)
END
