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Hala Gorani Tonight
Tsipras Asks Greeks to Vote No on Referendum; At Least 27 Dead in Kuwait Blast; At Least 38 Killed in Tunisia Beach Resort Massacre
Aired June 29, 2015 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:27] HALA GORANI, HOST: Tonight a dramatic new perspective on the attack on a beach resort in Tunisia.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: CNN is on the ground in Sousse with an update on the investigation and new video showing the last moment of that terrifying shooting.
And there's an air of urgency at ATMs across Greece today. Banks are closed as the country teeters on the edge of default. We expect to hear
from the Greek Prime Minister within the next few minutes. We'll bring you that live.
Plus an update on the burn victims after a theme park in Taiwan goes up in flames.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Hello everyone, I'm Hala Gorani live from CNN, London. A lot going on this day and we have it all for you this hour. This is The World
Right Now.
We are learning more today about the victims in the Tunisian massacre as authorities make their first arrests in the case.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Tunisia's Interior Minister says the suspects detained were part of a network supporting the lone gunman. He and officials from Britain,
France and Germany as you can see there laying flowers today at the beach resort in Sousse; the scene just a few days ago of a terrifying attack that
left 38 people dead, slaughtered on the beach.
The U.K. Government now says as many as 30 of the victims may have been British. That would make it the worst terror attack against British
Citizens in a decade.
Nick Paton Walsh shows us some dramatic amateur video that's emerging capturing the horrific moments of the mass shooting.
NICK PATON WALSH, CINN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: They are unarmed but still they run towards a gunman who's already killed guests at the hotel
where they work. Towards the pool many guests already fled.
That load blast perhaps a sound grenade one of several (inaudible) Rezgui detonators equipment that might be a lead to any backers. He's gone into
the hotel lobby it appears. But perhaps found no more victims.
He heads back towards the beach, his cafe near the sands. The cameraman runs again towards him yet pauses at the bar. He's seen something. Gun on
his shoulder Rezgui is strolling back towards the beach. There, we see the victims, their bodies too gruesome to show. The
cameraman keeps low.
Why, why, he explains. Lives and livelihoods taken here in these golden tourist sands. And here the gunman comes again.
No longer firing, is he out of bullets or targets unwilling to shoot Tunisian workers. Still it's those workers who give chase. The headlong
rush toward possible death.
The cameraman sees him throw his phone into the sea. They follow him back to the streets. Those bullets heading towards the cameraman perhaps from
police some fairly close.
It is up this road that Rezgui met his death. Was he running towards an accomplice who drove him there? Was he seeking another hotel to continue
his rampage? He took those secrets to his grave yet his last moments captured by one of the many Tunisians who risked their lives for foreigners
they may barely have known.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[15:05:11] GORANI: Well Nick Paton Walsh joins us now live from Sousse with the very latest. And Nick we saw that gunman and that amateur, that
dramatic, terrifying amateur video. What more are we learning about him?
WALSH: Well we know from the Prime Minister today speaking to my colleague Becky Anderson that Habib Essid telling us that they believe he acted on
that beach alone.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WALSH: That video seems to corroborate what the authorities have been saying since the night of the attack, there was one gunman. Eye witnesses
are more confused in their recollections but you hear there and you see one main shooter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALSH: But it is believed he was radicalized online according to the Prime Minister. That is a very potent statement because many are looking to see
what radical Islamist networks he might have had affiliation with who may have assisted him in the planning, the targeting of that particular resort.
That is not what the Government are pointing towards at the moment. They are not standing up ISIS' claimed responsibility behind this. Instead
they're saying he found inspiration on the internet perhaps also too with colleagues friends of his at the University he was studying at in Kairouan.
Six or seven of those perhaps under suspicion fellow students and three of his roommates we understand too being questioned by police.
Police also they have made their "first arrest" in the investigation here. Now that is potentially the people I've just mentioned or it could be other
figures too. But the interesting thing if you read his social media profile is it does seem this was a man into the sort of secular world of
breakdancing, rap artist, Eminem until 2011 when he went to University to study a Masters in Electronics. And then his social media postings become
significantly more Islamist.
So more details emerging here but key, the Government's being quite clear that they're not going to use the term ISIS readily to describe how he
became radicalized. It seems more nuance than that or maybe they're yet to get to the end of their investigation Hala.
GORANI: Well Nick Paton Walsh is in Sousse, thanks very much.
Authorities in Tunisia are still working to identify all of those killed in that massacre. Britain wants to send its own experts to help speed the
process.
Let's get more now from Tunisia's Health Minister. Said Aidi joins me on the line now from Tunis. Thanks Minister from - for being with us. First
of all we understand according to British sources that the number of British victims could be as high as 30 but they've not all been identified
is that correct?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAID AIDI, TUNISIA HEALTH MINISTER: This is correct. I would like first to express on behalf of the Government and all the Tunisian people my
deepest condolences to the families of the victims.
For now out of the 38 deceased we have identified 26. 18 are English, two are German, Three Irish, one Mauritian, one Belgium and one Portuguese.
Unfortunately we still have out of the 38 12 to identify and unfortunately most of them will be British as we note the identification is based on the
(inaudible) approach with DNA recognition on the basis of the fingerprints in addition to the recognition by the family when the family come. And we
have also set up, as you may know probably, (inaudible) support for the family when they come to the hospital for the recognition of their - of the
victims.
GORANI: So you're still waiting on the families of 12 people Mr. Aidi?
AIDI: No, I think we have received today the (inaudible) British policy right now and we expect to finalize the identification tonight or the
latest tomorrow morning of the 12 that are not yet formally identified.
GORANI: So you expect by tomorrow morning. We understand that your British counterparts are hoping to send a team. Is this something that
might happen as well in the next 24 hours?
AIDI: It already happened since yesterday (inaudible) and now they are with us in the Charles Nicolle Hospital and we collaborate with them.
GORANI: All right. And regarding the actual, and I don't know if you have details on the investigation, but regarding the actual gunman, the killer
and these reports that there have been arrests and that witnesses have said that they saw accomplices. Can you fill in any of the blanks on the
investigation for us based on what you know?
AIDI: The investigation is ongoing. The investigation as you know the terrorist was distinguished as a tourist once he came. We think and we
know that he had some other people supporting him and we have made the progress on the investigation. At this stage I can't because I don't have
the information as you know I am handling all the medical parts in addition to the victims we also have the (inaudible) we still have four in the
hospital, two of them are British, and as the Minister of Health I spend all my time to take care of this part and to ensure that the operation of
the identification of the victims are moving in the right way.
[15:10:39] GORANI: Understood. Once last question I've got to ask you a personal question. As a Tunisian, when you heard the news, when you saw
the coverage on television of what happened what went through your mind?
AIDI: My mind I moved immediately with the President and the Prime Minister (inaudible) and we know that the terrorist needs to be (inaudible)
by global (inaudible) with collaboration with our friends, the European, with the American as well. We have other countries like Algeria et cetera,
and (inaudible) in Tunisia we (inaudible) (inaudible) and we will win against the terrorist. This is not Tunisia. We still had to have our
guests being killed by those terrorist, you know but these things so far the combination to fight them and to continue on the (inaudible) treatment
of Democrats in Tunisia.
GORANI: Said Aidi, the Minister for Health in Tunisia, thanks for updating us there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: And the Minister telling us among the 38 dead 26 have been identified, 12 in the process of being identified and that that process
should in fact be completed hopefully by tomorrow morning Tunisia time. The fear though is that among the 18 English identified that that death
toll for Britain's will go up to 30.
The British Prime Minister David Cameron is promising a full investigation into the massacre. He told the House of Commons here in London "We will
not give up our way of life and coware in the face of terrorism." And Mr. Cameron says his Government is taking steps to improve its readiness to
fight this particular threat.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID CAMERON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Over the next two days our security forces and emergency services will conduct a major training exercise in
London to test and refine the U.K's preparedness for dealing with a serious terrorist attack. But we must also do more to make sure the powers we give
our security services keep pace with changes in technology.
ISILS methods of murder may be barbaric but its method of recruitment, the propaganda, communication use the latest technology so we must step up our
own efforts to support our agencies in tracking vital online communications.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: That was the Prime Minister of Britain and we will have more on the reaction here to the attack including an interview with the former head
of the British Army who tells me he is concerned about the caliphate ISIS is trying to establish and thinks there should be more of a military
response which is not everyone's opinion in this case based on what some are saying perhaps an ineffective approach over the last year. We'll have
an interesting discussion a little bit later in the program.
But up next tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Kuwait is reeling as well after the worst terrorist attack on its soil in years. As the Arab (inaudible) holds meetings over the deadly
blast at Friday prayers, the Kuwaitian Ambassador here in London will join me live.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(END COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:16:01] GORANI: Welcome back. We're learning more now, more details about the movements of the man responsible for a devastating suicide
bombing in a Kuwaiti mosque. The attack killed 27 people during Friday prayers at that Shiite mosque.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
This is Fahad Suleiman Abdulmohsen al-Gabbaa Kuwaiti authorities say he carried out the attack and travelled from Saudi Arabia to do it. Now we
caution pictures of the aftermath are extremely disturbing.
Ian Lee went to meet some of the worshipers who survived.
IAN LEE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Carnage frozen in time. Pieces of lives lost. An ISIS suicide bomber terrorizing a house of worship.
YAQOUB AL HAMAD: God, we were just praying for God sake.
LEE: A video obtained by CNN shows the chaos seconds after the explosion that killed at least 27 and injured more than 200. In Kuwait's main
hospital we find some of the youngest victims.
Family members have yet to tell nine year old Ali his father was killed.
Mohammed lost a toe but some of the damage you can't see.
MOHAMMED AL ATAR: But I feel incapable because I can't work, I can't like do anything. I just sit here and I can't do anything and like I feel
(inaudible) because if a lot of family members come visit me but because I can't hear very well so it's like I'm isolated alone.
LEE: There's a sense of unity in Kuwait, a rare commodity these days in the Middle East. Sunni and Shia coming together in the face of terror. A
local youth group delivers flowers to the victims. A heavy door saved Salah Al Haseem's life while everyone around him was killed.
Are you angry or how do you feel now?
SALAH AL HASEEM: No not angry. I'm happy. That's what happened make the Kuwaitis together again more I see love. I see love in Kuwaiti eyes.
LEE: In the aftermath of the worst of humanity the best shines through.
Ian Lee, CNN, Kuwait City, Kuwait.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well the Arab League held an emergency meeting on the Kuwait bombing today. It was called in fact by Kuwait. I'm joined now by Khalid
Abdulaziz Al-Duwaisan, he's the Kuwaiti Ambassador to the U.K. He's also the - apologies Ambassador, the Prime Minister of Greece is speaking at a
very critical time, let's just listen very quickly to that, and we'll get back.
ALEXIS TSIPRAS, GREEK PRIME MINISTER : Since the end of the (inaudible) it's one of them but I think there have been several that were very
important moments but I do believe this is one of the most important ones and that will be judged on the strength of our people and the decisiveness
and I would like to say that the main point in this development is that these decisions that will be made by the Greek people, they put the stamp
on it.
And we'll start straight away so we won't waste any time. We'll start with the question.
UNIDENTIFEID MALE: You just said there won't be an extension. The problem will finish tomorrow night and first thing in the morning, 6:00 o'clock in
the morning, which means everybody's asking for money, IMF is asking for the money and we'll be out of the program if there is no agreement.
TSIPRAS: They're asking us for a fair program, will we go for a fair program (inaudible) not tomorrow, the day after tomorrow the sun is going
to rise in the East, I don't know the exact time. We have (inaudible) the Greek people they will still leave and I think by being calm we'll be able
to face their threats and the ultimatums. And I did (inaudible) when I spoke to Mr. Hollande and Mr. (inaudible). After I spoke to them
(inaudible) decide to have a referendum and I've asked them to extend the program for a - for a few more days so we'll have a (inaudible) country,
(inaudible) people. I come over the next day and they told me that there is no possibility of extending the program and I reply to them that if
there isn't one they shouldn't worry because Greek men and women they will survive without a program, and we'll go to the ballots. Because Democracy
in this country has been far longer than the European Union and the Euro. We won't bury Democracy in the place that it was born because of the end of
a program, and just because some people they decide not to give an extension. Not to give the opportunity to the people to decide. So the
Greek people they will go to the ballot and they will decide. And whatever the decision is it will be respected.
It will be respected by the Government because Parliament will implement the decision.
[15:21:55] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you replied you said that the sun will still rise tomorrow, the day after the ballot and everything will go back
to normal. The only difference is the banks are closed now.
TSIPRAS: Yes of course, the banks are closed (inaudible). I didn't say that everything's ideally, I said we will survive, we'll stand on our feet,
we'll be alive and we go and practice our right to vote. And we decide as people what will be our future. It's a big decision, we have to be calm
and decisive and yes we do go through difficulties and that is not our choice, it's because it's a fact that some are trying to prevent the right
of the peoples to decide. They close the banks because they decided not to prolong the program. And they close the banks just because they don't
accept the fact that the people have the right to decide. They gave us an ultimatum and the terms I don't think they were suitable to the traditions
of the Democratic principles of the European Union. So on Sunday we are going to the ballots where a decision of the Greek Government. There are
two possibilities either no or yes. Yes of course.
In a ballot there isn't a maybe it's either yes or no.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So we'll have a - if it's a no there will be no more negotiations. Everybody says that to Greece that if it's going to be a no
then forget about Euro. I would like to get the drive from the Prime Minister.
TSIPRAS: Well (inaudible) we can still negotiate after the ballot, the referendum. So obviously the line is quite threatening, they don't want us
to have a referendum and they don't want to know. But I can assure you a wish that the referendum will be the continuation of the negotiation but
will bring us in a stronger position. On the table there still remains our proposals which are not putting all the (inaudible) on the poor and the
weak but to those which can handle them. We're looking for a solution. We we've been negotiating for the last five months it was not to get the
country outside the European frame but the peoples wish was to remain within the European frame but in a - in an assessment that it can be
bearable with more (inaudible) was we gave a solution in order to get out of the vicious cycle of austerity which forces us into further debt.
[15:25:31] So we wanted to have a (inaudible) and not having impossible targets and adjustment to the debt and a program that will give to the
international public opinion and the lenders that this horrible situation of the Greeks is the end. It has come to an end. If they don't offer this
then what are our choices to accept this vicious cycle so we say to the Greek people that our partners they offer us - what they offer us is not
viable. And that's why we're asking you to vote no to this. And the bigger the no vote is then we'll be in a stronger position to negotiate for
a viable solution.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gabriel you just said that - said that Greece tried to change all the rules in the Eurozone and Mrs. (inaudible) said that there
was - that the Greek side wasn't prepared to compromise and that's why there was the end of -- the end of the negotiations.
TSIPRAS: In five months we've done whatever was humanly possible in order to reach an agreement. And I remember about three days ago the media
increase will say well (inaudible) giving (inaudible) way of bringing a new memorandum of 8 billion and now the media they just change it and they say
exactly the opposite. And it's (inaudible) said today, we did try our very best in all honesty. In the last few days (inaudible) I realized that the
aim of the other side it wasn't to bridge our gap, it was to dub their positions and every time that we accepted something they just moved even
further.
Maybe they found it as a weakness that our desire to find a solution. And look as Prime Minister and my Government we had a framework which was the
mandate for the Greek people. It was to negotiate for a better position within the European frame but not another memorandum, not the same thing as
(inaudible) or somewhere else. Not that this manifest and then more measures later.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But you didn't manage to achieve that.
TSIPRAS: Please let me explain. If I did manage to achieve that then we would have an agreement wouldn't we? So the fact that I failed to achieve
that it's un-doubtable. The fact that - it's un-doubtable that I tried everything we could do that we had the determination to do that.
[15:31:01 On Monday we gave a proposal which out of a three (inaudible) and (inaudible) but they said that it was accepted and our (inaudible)
belief that we managed to reach the end. And I tried to explain to the Greek people we've reached the end, we've found a solution. And as soon as
we do that then they ask for even more and when we try to give more they ask for even more.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why did they do that?
TSIPRAS: I'll give you an honest reply.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's just a question.
TSIPRAS: I'll reply to you honestly. I don't - I don't think they want to throw us - throw us out of the Euro, and they're not going to do
that. And I'll explain to you, because the cost of this is huge. The financial cost of the collapse of the Eurozone - the cost of a country
going bankrupt - this is - owes over a 120 billion - that's huge.
But, this is my assessment. But, obviously, everyone can make their own assessment and analyze things. You asked me a question, and I gave you
a straight answer. I don't think they aim to get Greece out of the Euro. And the plan (ph) was - is just to
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So there is no hope of changing - things will change within the European Union - so to get rid of Tsipras?
TSIPRAS: No, I don't think that. It was like - (INAUDIBLE) what's happening throughout Europe about other countries, other people, was
(INAUDIBLE) more austerity - another vicious circle. So, if the Greek government manages to get something back, which will be a way out of the
crisis, (INAUDIBLE) survival and will be (INAUDIBLE) submission, then the message across Europe will be there is a different way, and this is what
they don't want.
And this is political choice. And facing that, one person or (ph) government can reply to that. It's the peoples that have to. The Greek
people that chose me on one mandate, and I'm being honest with the Greek people and say I (INAUDIBLE) your mandate. I went to the point that they
(ph) gave me an ultimatum saying you have to reply within 48 hours. And I dismissed that. And I said ultimatums you can turn them back but it has a
lot more strength when it's not sent back by one person, but - but an entire peoples.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But we're talking about the left (ph) side of Greece. Is that like - believes that - it has to do with the left (ph) of
government? Well, Paul Friedman (ph) wrote an article referring to the missing pieces (ph) and said you must be joking regarding the Greek debt
and the prospects of Greece moving out of the crisis.
TSPIRAS: But you do the policies - not Kruzman (ph). But this is the substance. You see, until now - five months now - they want further
negotiations - that was the angle of this - to gradually get to the moment (INAUDIBLE). This process that will dare to tell us do this - they just
put pressure on us - and they will adopt it.
It's not as we suggested it. You say this is your proposal. If I did so, then I'll have gone there and will say that this is my proposal.
At the last moment, when they gave us the ultimatum - when they told us you've got 48 hours to accept this positions - they gave us opportunity to
come to the Greek people and ask - what they're asking from us do you accept it or do you reject it?
The main - well, the main thing, in order to get an agreement with partners, is to - is honesty. And this end (ph) game has to come to an
end.
The statement from Eurogroup on the 25th - when there was a very important proposal - certainly one that - that was on the Web site - that
was (INAUDIBLE) to the Greek parliament. And this is the one that we're asking the Greek people if they - if they agree or reject it.
And it says that we ask the government to accept the proposals of the institutions and says the Greek authorities submitted the last proposals
which the (INAUDIBLE). And - and Eurogroup is calling the government by the 27th of June to accept the proposals of these (ph) institutions.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, there was put up by Twitter, that Mr. (INAUDIBLE) claims, you never received it?
TSIPRAS: We did receive the text from the institutions (INAUDIBLE) submitted that Euro group asking us to agree within 48 hours. And after
the summit (ph.) Eurogroup meeting, which they ended up the way they did, when then Greece when the proposal to give us an extension, and I said we
want to cut (ph) this, we just asked them to give us a week until they - the Greek people go to the ballot. So, they didn't give us the extension.
And then the next day commission came -
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you saying that someone - someone's lie?
TSIPRAS: I'm not saying that. I'm telling you the truth. Just allow me so people that can understand. So, we're just two slightly
differences. It was just a BAP (ph) - BAP (ph) for hotels. It was for 23 percent and then the next day they dropped from 23 to 13 percent. This is
(INAUDIBLE), because the next day they could (ph) bring another one, which will be another slight alteration.
But, we're asking the Greek people to - to get into the substance and not the details. What the president of the commission said in his
interview and the international -
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[15:35:08] HALA GORANI, CNN HOST: All right. Well, you are hearing there from the Greek Prime Minister, Alexis Tspiras. It's a critical time
for his country. They are just hours away from potentially defaulting on a loan repaying that they owe to the International Monetary Fund. That would
be pretty disastrous for the Greek economy.
Alexis Tspiras is saying that he doesn't believe that Europe will throw Greece out of the Euro - that it would cost them too much - and that
he asked for an extension of the program to continue paying bills of the country over the next several days.
Isa Soares is live in Athens right now with more. What is the big headline here? Alexis Tspiras is sticking to his guns. A referendum will
take place, it appears, on Sunday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ISA SOARES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hala, it's pretty much synretric (ph) that we heard from him yesterday as well - very defiant, very confident -
Alexis Tspiras there. And really saying put - really blaming Europe for leading them to this crisis in the first place. And, then, also the same
time saying that he's prepared to talk to rest of Europe post the referendum.
He's putting this down to the people. The people have a vote. They have a right to vote on this, and that is what it comes down to. He said
the Greeks will survive even without the bailout program. He went on to say international creditors -pointing (INAUDIBLE) one is one small
international creditors are confused he said. Their line is the line of threat.
We heard this yesterday. He was talking about ultimatums and threats - same kind of rhetoric (ph). He said - he said basically banks will (ph)
close because of Europe and he said we've had enough of these ultimatums.
Still, he says he's prepared to talk with Europe post the referendum. But now it's come down to the people. And that is why, Hala, I think he's
probably emboldened looking at just the scenes behind. I'm just gonna move out of the way and to just our cameraman, Scotty (ph), get some view of
there.
If you can look further back, as far back as you can see, just in front of the lotus (ph) stairs of parliament there, you see thousands of
people in support of Alexis Tsipras, who was speaking right now. He's expected to speak for a whole hour, Hala, on national television. And
people here are saying we stand by Alexis Tsipras. We are gonna vote no against this E (ph) proposals because we believe that this - his proposals
- what he's putting on the table - is the least of two evils really. And that is what they're telling me.
I went down there about an hour or so ago, and people were just fine. There's this weird (ph) resignation that perhaps there's more to come -
more tragedy in for them. But they feel that that will at least be a dignified way to have to leave Europe to do it.
Hala.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Isa Soares, live in Athens. Thanks very much. Part of our team covering the events unfolding in Greece.
We'll be right back. I'll be speaking to the Kuwaitian (ph) ambassador to the United Kingdom on what happened in his country Friday -
terrible suicide bombing in a mosque. Stay with us on CNN
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:57:54] GORANI: Well, as we were mentioning just a few minutes ago, the Arab League held an emergency meeting on what happened in Kuwait -
that terrible bombing at the Shiite mosque. The meeting was called by Kuwait after an attacker killed dozens of people who were worshipping in
that Shiite mosque. And the bomb struck Friday prayers. You can see the aftermath there. Twenty-seven people died. More than 200 were injured.
Let's get more on the reaction - what Kuwaitis believe (ph) should be done now. I'm joined by Khaled Abdul Azia al-Duwaisan. He's the Kuwaiti
ambassador to the U.K. He's also the dean of Arab ambassadors here in the United Kingdom. Serving here for 22 years you were telling me.
KHALED ABDL AZIA AL-DUWAISAN, KUWAITI AMBASSADOR TO THE U.K.: Yes.
GORANI: Thank you, sir, for being with us. First of all, let's talk a little bit about what happened in Kuwait City. An attacker - authorities
are telling in Kuwait he came from Saudi Arabia, blew himself up in that Shiite mosque killing all these people. What's going on there? This is
one of the worst attacks in your country in a very long time.
AL-DUWAISAN: This is the worst attack. It was appalling, you know, that attack. You know, Suleiman (ph) came from nowhere, you know, and
killed 27 innocent, you know, people and injured more than 200. An incident that has never happened before in Kuwait.
So, thank God, you know, that - that all Kuwaiti came together, you know, at once (ph). There's no difference between Sunnis and Shiites. All
of us, you know, that stood behind our government - our people, you know, that - and the authorities detained the owner of the car who carried that
bomber.
GORANI: But you must have some level of concern here. The terrorist's group, ISIS, immediately almost claimed responsibility for the
attack. They want more than anything to create war between Sunnis and Shias. In the way they are hoping to continue war between Sunnis and Shias
in Iraq, your neighbor to the north.
AL-DUWAISAN: Yes.
GORANI: Do you think it will spill over into your country - why or why not?
AL-DUWAISAN: No, because, you know, that we are one people. You know, they couldn't divide us, you know, at this (INAUDIBLE). We became,
you know, like (INAUDIBLE) - unity and solidarity among us, you know, as Kuwaitis.
We have no difference between and Shias and Sunnis. We respect they're (ph) - they respect us, you know, (INAUDIBLE). And we've been
living for centuries, Hala, together. And we've never had any, you know, that such an incident.
We have arguments, yes. This is happen everywhere, you know. But we never had violence, you know, in this -
GORANI: There hasn't been violence, but there has been - has been frustration among Shias in Kuwait. Also we see it in Bahrain, where
clearly there was an effort there by Shias to get their voice heard. There's a substantial minority of Shiites in Saudi Arabia that feel like
they don't share wealth and power enough. Do you think that's something that needs addressing in Kuwait?
AL-DUWAISAN: No. I don't think because the Shiites is part of us. They are ministers. They are ambassadors. They are traders. They are -
they are, you know, part of us. We are setting an example for the whole Arab world that we have no difference between Shias and Sunnis. They are
member of the parliaments. They are concerned.
They're addressing our issues and not their issues. So we are one people. I don't think - it is backfire (ph), you know, for the DAESH, you
know, that to do such a things, you know.
GORANI: DAESH, the Arabic acronym for ISIS. You say you don't wanna call them ISIS because that gives them legitimacy.
AL-DUWAISAN: No, because it will give them legitimacy, you know, Hala. Because they are DAESH, you know. They are not ISIS, you know, and
they are not the state. They are a gang. You know, they are a group of people. They hate, you know, human being. They teach hating.
GORANI: They're still controlling a lot of territory - doing a lot of damage. Can I ask you about your country? You are here between,
geographically, between Iran and Iraq. You're in a difficult neighborhood going through a terrible time right now. What are your fears for your
country?
AL-DUWAISAN: Well, we maintain a good relation with these two countries - with their governments and with their people. And we became
more vigilant, you know, towards their internal situation. We don't want, you know, this spread on us.
DAESH - they are in the middle and the north. And we are tackling them even in our country. We said that we don't want to teach our kids
this poisonous, you know, that is idea about Islam. That's what keep us - keeping us, you know, Hala, as a Shias and Sunnis together. And we work
together. We live in harmony. Never had this. And this incident came and, as a matter of fact, as I said, this became backfire. We became one
(INAUDIBLE) when you saw. Last night our emir, who came after than half- an-hour to the scene of incident -
GORANI: That was a significant gesture?
AL-DUWAISAN: It was a significant gesture. And we received condolences from all over the world, you know, as a Sunnis and the Shiites.
So they won't be able, you know, to divide us.
GORANI: Khaled Abdul Azia al-Duwaisan, the Kuwaiti ambassador to London. Thanks so much for your time. We really appreciate your visit
this evening.
AL-DUWAISAN: Thank you.
GORANI: We'll be right back with a lot more on what the aftermath of what happened in Tunisia. And eyewitness, who was there at the hotel, will
join us next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:42:08] GORANI: Let's return now to our top story - the massacre at that resort in Tunisia. This is the scene in Sousse today. Tourists
who decided to continue their holidays are laying flowers on the beach offering condolences and prayers for the victims of last week's killings.
Thousands of British tourists have returned home since the shooting. My next guest is one of them. Ellie Makin was staying at a hotel near the
resort that was attacked. She was on the beach when the gunman opened fire. Here's a picture of her from her vacation. Ellie joins me on the
line now from North Yorkshire.
First, Ellie, tell me a little bit what you witnessed, what you saw, what you heard on Friday when the attack happened.
(BEGIN TELECONFERENCE)
ELLIE MAKIN, WITNESS OF TUNISIA SHOOTING: OK, so I was on the beach, and I just happened to look up so (INAUDIBLE) wild on the beach. From what
I saw, there was a (INAUDIBLE) right in front (ph) of me, and he kept (ph) a parasol umbrella and he just tried to shoot to his right-hand side. And
I shouted and screamed as loud as I could, but (INAUDIBLE). And all these people were (ph) and run with fear towards the hotel as quick as possible.
By that time, (INAUDIBLE) want all in the hotel. We don't - the hotel staff we faced (ph) or not faced (ph). They turned around and said
we're fine but faith (ph). They really (INAUDIBLE), and that's how (INAUDIBLE) it was.
Then we got prepared as people talking about that he was in the hotel next door. And less than two minutes later, he was on the way to our
hotel. So, by that time, as people were still running in - people screaming and shouting saying that (INAUDIBLE) is coming back to our hotel
- coming to our hotel. And so we had to stop behind - you know - (INAUDIBLE) we hope we were safe in the foyer and when we get told to get
to our rooms and get told to stay in the foyer. We didn't know where to go - we had no idea what to do. All you had to do was (INAUDIBLE) in the
hotel room ground floor and just listen to the explosions and the (INAUDIBLE) louder and louder.
GORANI: All right. Ellie Makin, thanks very much. We're having - we got the point of what you were saying. The phone line is a little bit
chopping. But I can imagine how terrified you were - you and your friend as well on vacation there in Sousse in Tunisia running for your lives
literally in this case. Thanks very much for sharing your story.
We have to leave it there for now. Of course, a big question - are the new measures David Cameron announced enough to protect British
citizens? General Sir Richard Dannatt was in charge of the British armed forces when they were in Iraq, and many people consider that operation to
have been a - to have been actually a disastrous invasion that did not yield the promised results and was performed for the wrong reasons.
I spoke to him earlier and began by asking him what he thought the response to Friday's attack in Tunisia should be.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GENERAL SIR RICHARD DANNATT, FORMER HEAD OF THE BRITISH ARMY: Well, first of all, we need to condemn what's happened and send our heartfelt
sympathies to the families of probably up to 30 British people who have lost their lives (INAUDIBLE) loss of life to terrorist attack in Britain
for 10 years since the bombs in London in July of 2005.
But, then, our response has to be vigorous.
GORANI: Yes.
DANNATT: Our prime minister has talked today about the requirement for a full-spectrum response, and I think he's right. That means
coordinated political, military, economic and diplomatic measures and actions to be taken.
The United States is currently in the lead of a coalition of a large number of countries fighting Islamic state. I think we need to see even
more leadership and more coordination from the United States and all the members of that coalition to redouble their efforts to make sure that
Islamic state does not prevail.
GORANI: But you've been quoted as saying you think there should be boots on the ground in Iraq.
DANNATT: Well, I've been misquoted as saying that. What I've been saying to those who read what I have written is that what we absolutely
don't want to do is to put 5,000 British combat troops back on the ground. That is the last thing we want to do. And to make sure that does not
happen, we've gotta make sure that we can do everything else to make that we succeed without putting American, British boots on the ground because,
if we do that again, as we learned from Iraq and Afghanistan previously, although we go there with the best of intentions, others can turn our
presence around so that we're seen to be part of the problem and not part of the solution.
GORANI: And, at what point would you say the situation requires actual boots on the ground from countries like the United Kingdom?
DANNATT: Not yet, but I think we also have to bear in mind the ambition of Islamic state to create the so-called caliphate. They want to
reach the high watermark of Islamic influence in the 15th century which, in European terms, would take them into southern Spain - would take them into
(INAUDIBLE) the Balkans - into Bosnia, into Albania and countries like that.
It may well be that, if we haven't had to intervene physically before that, we may have to intervene at that point. I don't want it to get to
that, but we have got to be completely adult in understanding that this ambition is pretty strong - is pretty broad. They are going to put every
effort they can into succeeding, and we have got to draw a line somewhere along the line and to stop it.
GORANI: You - you seem to be saying that ISIS is potentially an existential threat to European countries. Do you believe that?
DANNATT: If you take the academic understanding of the expansion they want to see of the caliphate, which would take it to where it was in
the 15th century, it takes it into Europe. Once it's in Europe, it's very much in the backyard of countries like Spain, like the Balkans and
potentially even further.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, General Sir Richard Dannatt seeing ISIS's expansion - its expansionary ambitions, as reaching the very gates of Europe - the view
from Sir Richard Dannatt.
This has been THE WORLD RIGHT NOW. I'm Hala Gorani. Thanks to all for watching. "Quest Means Business" is in Athens next.
END
