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Interview With Arizona Congresswoman Martha McSally; Drew Peterson on Trial; President Obama's Best Week Ever?; Investigating New York Prison Escape. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired June 30, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:02] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: How did they pull that off?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, David Sweat is saying that the night before they did escape, they had a rehearsal, and that rehearsal allowed them to make sure that they were going to get everything right.

Now, the New York inspector general, as part of their ongoing investigation, has been looking into how Matt and Sweat could have been allowed out of their cells at night. Now, officials separately have told CNN that investigators are looking into whether or not guards in the honor block could sleep at night, possibly, and that would have allowed them out of their cell at night.

But that is the latest from David Sweat. Now, on the official front, the New York Department of Corrections is saying that today, altogether, 12 state employees have been placed on administrative leave. And this is Clinton Correctional Facility right behind me. That is the maximum security prison.

And what they are saying is that three from the executive level have been placed on administrative leave, the superintendent, which is the warden -- that's what New York calls it, a superintendent, but it's the warden -- the deputy superintendent and the first deputy superintendent.

Beyond that, nine security prison employees have been placed on administrative leave. Now, during the changeover, the Department of Corrections is saying that the new transition will begin this week.

So, it appears as though that they will be putting others in place. But that is the latest on the official level, and also David Sweat saying that they had a rehearsal the night before.

BALDWIN: All the while, all these 23 days, the world has been wondering how they managed to survived, right, in these woods.

And so law enforcement has released this photo. So, just a heads up to all of you watching, we're going to show you a photo. It's gruesome. It's of a -- Richard Matt, who is the other escapee who was taken down by police.

But, Jean, I think what is significant when we show this picture here is what he is wearing. CASAREZ: That's exactly right.

And we want to reiterate, this is a very gruesome photo and it may cause concern for you or your children. But if you look at that picture, if we really look at it, you're going to see that he's been shot on the top of his head. You can see that there's a backpack next to him.

You can also see -- and this was confirmed by the coroner's office -- he has dark brown pants on, a dark green jacket on, dark boots. And so he could just absolutely assimilate into the woods and you would never really notice him. And that's what hunters do. They wear camouflaged clothes like these.

Also, the coroner's office confirmed that he was found on his side when he was found, but that is -- right there, you're looking at Richard Matt shortly after he was shot dead by the tactical unit of the Border Patrol.

BALDWIN: He's the one who apparently had dysentery. He was the one who was left behind his other buddy there and left and was shot and killed.

Jean Casarez, thank you so much.

As we have said here, the key players at the prison are now on administrative leave. Two prison workers, including a guard, are already facing charges. So what is going on at this prison?

Let's bring in an expert, Chris Menton, a criminal justice professor. He actually spent 20 years working within the Massachusetts Department of Corrections.

So, Chris, great to have you on.

CHRIS MENTON, ROGER WILLIAMS UNIVERSITY: Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: We were just talking about this practice run that these two killers pulled off the night before. And you just heard Jean Casarez talking about possibly that would be when the guards on the honor block could sleep.

My question is -- and this is just from watching too many movies and never spending a lick of time inside a prison -- why wouldn't you have a guard at all times wandering around checking cells?

MENTON: Well, it's logistically difficult because the cells are on all different levels and there's different blocks. And we want to be economical in our expenditure on personnel. And so sometimes you are running short shift, and certainly there's nothing happening at night and it's possible people close their eyes.

BALDWIN: Thus the ability to pull off the dry run and then ultimately this escape. But the other part of this--

(CROSSTALK) BALDWIN: Go ahead. Go ahead.

MENTON: I'm just not sure there was a dry run. It's been my experience that the trustworthiness of prisoners when they tell you something is always something we should question.

BALDWIN: You mean to tell me every single word coming out of David Sweat's mouth now isn't tried-and-true and truthful? I'm being facetious, by the way. You're absolutely right.

MENTON: Yes. I think you're right, yes.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Here's part of the story, though, now, yes, is the fallout here and potentially looking into the drug trafficking taking place inside of this particular prison, as I mentioned, 12 people on leave, including three members of the executive team.

And I understand, sir, you have actually said an inmate once approached you to smuggle in drugs. Can you tell me about that?

MENTON: Sure.

The -- you're in a prison. You're oftentimes all alone with a number of prisoners and you -- you're unarmed. You're just negotiating their safety and yours. And so you fall into conversations. And, certainly, years ago, someone asked me to bring in drugs. I told my supervisor, and that was that.

[15:05:21]

BALDWIN: So you, you know, played by the rules and the law, but don't you think it's safe to say that there are other guards who do not, thus the issue of drugs and money being passed around in our nation's prisons?

MENTON: Well, what I'm hearing now is that there's about seven people who are workers and then there's a couple of executives, people on the executive staff.

I would imagine the executive staff are being suspended because of their culpability. They should not have been -- they should have known that this was going on. And it's possible they were complicit, but I rather doubt it.

I think that these were independent operators. And if you're talking a handful, we probably have a couple hundred people working there. And so the majority of the people are doing what they are supposed to be doing, I would assume.

BALDWIN: How are people getting these drugs in and out of these prisons? MENTON: Well, there's a number of ways that this happens. And,

generally, when it's with personnel, which I think is probably the most common way that this happens, is that the--

BALDWIN: Personnel being whom?

MENTON: -- the security -- the correction officers, the nurses, the doctors, the maintenance people that work there, the cooks.

This is -- remember, this is the whole world, so every service that these people need has to be brought in for them and different workers bring this in. Certainly, we have vendors that come in as well on a regular basis, people who repair the kitchen equipment, people who do electrical work, whatever the contractors they have.

So, there's opportunities. And, you know, the inmates have time to ask again and again and again, and if they ask enough, they will find a hit and they will find somebody who is willing to compromise themselves and there's all sorts of imaginative ways of doing this. You saw on the story with the -- Joyce, the woman, she's--

BALDWIN: The seamstress. Yes.

MENTON: Had frozen hamburger -- frozen hamburgers with devices inside of those.

So, certainly, that could be -- could easily be drugs. We find drugs in the linings of people's clothes sometimes, and in more private areas as well.

BALDWIN: I have heard and I will take your word on that one.

Final question, though, what's in it? We understand what the seamstress Joyce Mitchell -- maybe she was lonely. Maybe she needed attention. Who knows why. But some of these other nefarious correction officers, what is in it for them to help these criminals out, to stop riots potentially?

MENTON: Well, I think that certainly there's tacit agreements that you scratch my back, I will scratch yours. But I think more so is that if you're into the -- really the smuggling of drugs, then it's -- I would say it's probably for profit.

BALDWIN: OK. Chris Menton, thank you so much. I really, really appreciate it, professor in criminology, spent 20 years working as a training supervisor for the Massachusetts Department of Corrections.

Thank you, sir. Fascinating conversation.

MENTON: Thank you.

BALDWIN: By the way, let me just share with our viewers. I was just handed this.

Speaking of Joyce Mitchell, the seamstress, apparently, we have talked to the attorney of the husband. And this is what I have just been handed. Lyle Mitchell, the husband, is amazed that his wife, Joyce Mitchell, was the New York prison escapees' primary plan for a getaway car. This attorney says his client is glad Joyce chose not to pick up the New York prison escapees and, in turn, saved Lyle's life.

Just ahead here on CNN, I will speak with one of the most infamous inmates who spent time inside Clinton. He is Michael Alig, the former club kid promoter. Hear what he says of all this news coming out about the dry run, about the drugs, everybody.

Plus, more trouble for Trump, Mexico now pulling out of Miss Universe over the -- Donald Trump's derogatory comments about Mexicans. But the fallout, it doesn't stop there.

And Obamacare, same-sex marriage, and a pretty powerful song, the president moments ago responding to whether he had the best week ever of his presidency. Hear what he just said to CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:13:30]

BALDWIN: Negotiators from six nations trying to work out a deal with Iran over its nuclear capability have a new deadline. It was supposed to be today -- until today. Now a State Department official says it's next Tuesday.

At a news conference today, President Barack Obama was asked about some unresolved issues as it pertains to this deal, including those American citizens currently being held by Iran. Here was the president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is something that we continue to push hard on, irrespective of the nuclear deal. It's a top priority for us to make sure that our people are treated fairly.

And on the face of it, in the case of these individuals who have been held, they have not been, and they are not being afforded the basic due process and legal rights that we afford visitors to our country. So, we're deeply concerned about it. We spend a lot of time pushing on it and we will continue to do so.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let me bring in Wolf Blitzer.

And, Wolf, off the top, he sort of separates the nuke deal from these Americans being held hostage. Yes, he says he's concerned, but what else was he saying? How do you read his response?

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Well, a lot of people are curious why there is no direct linkage.

The Iranians are about to get -- if they sign this deal, if they work out a deal on their nuclear program, they are going to get at least $100 billion in unfrozen assets, maybe $150 billion.

[15:15:04]

So, what the U.S. wants are these four Americans, a former FBI agent, a "Washington Post" reporter, a pastor, a former U.S. Marine, who are being held in Iran, release these four guys, let them come home. Their families want them. Some of them have been held there now for years. It would be a simple gesture on the part of the Iranians to go ahead and release them.

And the fact that there's no direct link -- linkage is a source of a lot of frustration to a lot of people who want these four Americans out of Iran after all this time. But the president, he says he wants them out. He says they are doing everything they can, but they have deliberately made that decision not to have a direct linkage, say there is not going to be a deal unless you release these four Americans. That's been the U.S. policy and the president basically reiterated that policy today.

BALDWIN: That's looking ahead, again, the deadline moved to Tuesday.

But let's look back. Last week in this country, this is something our White House correspondent, Jim Acosta, asked of the president. You had the Supreme Court rulings, right, about Obamacare, same-sex marriage, that phenomenal eulogy the president gave Friday in Charleston, South Carolina.

Was that his best week ever of his presidency? This was the president's response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: I was gratified to see not only the incredible response of the families who have been affected by this tragedy, but by the response of people like Governor Haley, in how they viewed the issue of the Confederate Flag. As I said on Friday, I think it doesn't solve all our problems, but what it does is signify a sense of empathy and recognition that I think is always the start of progress.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: He says it's a start of progress. He went on to tell Jim about other items he wants to accomplish by the end of his presidency. Where does the reaction to what happened in Charleston fit in there?

BLITZER: Well, as far as Charleston is concerned, the president delivered a powerful eulogy last week, as all of our viewers know by now, and all of us, of course , remember when he went into "Amazing Grace." That was really a significant moment.

Having said that, I don't know if you noticed our new poll that came out this morning, and we asked basically a fundamental question. Are race relations better in America today than they were when he took office? And, unfortunately, a lot of people think that there is more racial tension in the United States today than there was six or seven years ago. That's a problem right now. And I don't know who is to blame for that. But I'm sure the president is deeply concerned. He's speaking out a lot more assertively now on all of these sensitive issues. He said in that interview not that long ago he's now fearless, he's going forward.

He's certainly not a lame duck. Those who thought that this president was a lame duck, they are wrong. He's still got a year-and-a-half or so to go. He has got a lot on his agenda and he has proven he can get stuff done. Obviously, he's very pleased by those two U.S. Supreme Court decisions, but there's still a lot more to go.

And let's see what happens on this Iran deal right now. And let's see what happens with ISIS right now, because ISIS seems to be, if not losing, they -- a lot of people think they are winning right now in Iraq and Syria and elsewhere and there's threats even here in the United States going forward in this -- toward this July 4 holiday.

One note I will point out, we have the former chief intelligence official at the U.S. Department of Defense, the undersecretary for intelligence, Michael Vickers, his first interview. He is going to be joining us later today in "THE SITUATION ROOM" during the 5:00 p.m. Eastern hour. And then John Kirby, the State Department spokesman, we will talk about the Iran deal, ISIS with John Kirby in the 6:00 p.m. Eastern hour.

So, we have got two major guests who can discuss these issues at length with a lot of expertise.

BALDWIN: Great. That's huge. We will be watching, as always, 5:00 p.m. Eastern.

Wolf Blitzer from "THE SITUATION ROOM," thank you, my friend.

BLITZER: Thank you. Thank you.

BALDWIN: Next, the man known as the serial husband, Drew Peterson, is about to stand trial again. One of his wives is dead, another missing. Let's talk to Nancy Grace, next, about the new case against him and preview our documentary airing tonight.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:23:14]

BALDWIN: Here's a name, Drew Peterson. Remember him? The infamous cop convicted of killing his third wife and suspected of killing his fourth wife? Well, now he's about to go on trial again. This time, he's accused of ordering a hit on the prosecutor who put him behind bars. This is the focus of a CNN special report, "Married to a Murderer: The Drew Peterson Story." Here's a clip.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NARRATOR: October 28, 2007, the day Candace Aikin's niece Stacy Peterson vanished without a trace. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I thought that she had been murdered, most

likely by Drew.

NARRATOR: Akin was not alone. All eyes were on Stacy's husband, Illinois police officer Drew Peterson, a man whose third wife, Kathleen Savio, had been found dead in a bathtub about three years earlier.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I walk into everyone I go and there's this little hum that goes through the establishment. There's Drew Peterson. There's Drew Peterson. There's Drew Peterson.

NARRATOR: Joe Hosey staked out Peterson's suburban home when news broke of Stacy's disappearance.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This morning, Drew Peterson spoke to reporters through his front door.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The first few days, he was just peaking out his front door, but then he was letting people come in to talk to him.

NARRATOR: Hosey was the first.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was eerie. Like, I had a view of the living room. And I was watching the kids watching the TV and it was kind of strange.

NARRATOR: Strange because they were watching the news coverage--

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was last heard from on Sunday morning.

NARRATOR: -- about their missing mother.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Let's talk a little bit more about this case with Nancy Grace of HLN.

Nancy Grace, you have covered a lot of characters. You know, in addition to what this man is accused of doing to his wives, as I mentioned a second ago, he allegedly ordered this hit on the prosecutor from behind bars. Have you seen anyone like him?

NANCY GRACE, HOST, "NANCY GRACE": I have seen a lot of killers, lots of killers. And I have put a lot of killers behind bars.

[15:25:04]

But Drew Peterson is one of a kind, his arrogance and the way he basically thumbs his nose at the justice system, and it's not just the justice system. I'm not talking about the judge. A lot of people don't like judges. I very rarely like judges. It's not just the prosecutor.

It's the justice system. It's the memory of his wives. And, sure, you can have an acrimonious divorce. You can literally loathe, hate your spouse. But what about the children from that spouse? What about your children?

And throughout the disappearance of his fourth wife, Stacy Peterson, it was like a big joke to him. And a lot of people argue, well, of course, he killed Kathleen Savio, wife number three. She was found brutally beaten -- I read that autopsy report over and over and over -- in a bone-dry bathtub. She was no more taking a bath than you are right now.

So he's convicted of that. But what about Stacy Peterson? What about this? Before the search was even done, he was starting to give away her clothes. He certainly wasn't afraid she was going to come in the front door, right?

BALDWIN: What do you think happens to him?

GRACE: What do I think? I think that, in that jurisdiction, the death penalty is on a moratorium, so he can basically kill as many people as he wants to and it won't change his sentence.

He's got an appeal going right now. The appeal is basically -- when a defendant is in a corner and they don't have anything to argue, they attack their defense attorney, no matter how faithful that attorney was. His attorney was Joel Brodsky. He's flamboyant, true, but he's a good lawyer.

And his appeal is that Brodsky cared too much about the limelight and was not focusing on his trial and let some evidence in that shouldn't have. And that would be referring to one wife's preacher and the other wife's divorce lawyer. Both of them dealt with statements that he killed Kathleen Savio. They wanted that thrown out.

That's not going to work, because it was a fleet of defense attorneys. Any of them could have objected. But what do I think is going to happen with trying to order a hit on the prosecutor?

BALDWIN: Prosecutor.

GRACE: I think that he's going to be tried. I think he's going to be convicted and they will add more years to his sentence.

But the bottom line is, he will never get out of jail. What I would like to know is, where is Stacy?

BALDWIN: The body, right, the body. Nancy Grace, we will see you at 8:00 tonight on HLN. Thank you, ma'am, very much.

GRACE: Thank you.

BALDWIN: And speaking of this piece we're airing here on CNN, do not miss this special report, "Married to a Murderer: The Drew Peterson Story." that is tonight 9:00 Eastern and Pacific here on CNN.

U.S. security officials are issuing a terror warning for this Fourth of July holiday weekend, but, listen, let's be clear. Right now, there is no specific or credible threat that has been identified. But the Department of Homeland Security, the FBI and the National Counterterrorism Center all say extremists could launch attacks this holiday weekend.

So, I wanted to go straight to Arizona Representative Martha McSally. She serves on the Armed Services and Homeland Security committees and as the chair of the Subcommittee on Emergency Preparedness, Response, and Communications.

So, Congresswoman, great to have you on. Welcome.

REP. MARTHA MCSALLY (R), ARIZONA: Thanks for having me.

BALDWIN: Just first out of the gate, we mentioned, but, listen, you're way more in the know than any of us, as far as any kind of threats that you're hearing specific ahead of this Fourth of July weekend, anything you want to share?

MCSALLY: Sure.

So what we have is sort of a combination of circumstances that have brought us to this threat awareness. The first is that jihadist leaders, ISIS leaders are using social media in a very sophisticated way, trying to encourage individuals that are homegrown extremists launch attacks all over the world during the month of Ramadan, which started in June 17 and continues through July 17.

So, we're in Ramadan. They also have shown that they have some attacks like on Armed Forces Day that were foiled in the U.K. So we have seen chatter where they are wanting to go against military targets, go against targets that are related to national holidays, like we made it through Memorial Day, but now we're coming up on Independence Day.

You know, we also have the year anniversary of ISIS being established. And so you bring that all together and their sophisticated use of social media, trying to recruit individuals. Just a couple days ago, obviously, we saw the three attacks on three different continents.

And so that's just brought us to the place to say we need to be vigilant and on alert. We don't need to be living in fear, but we need to be on alert. Law enforcement needs to be on alert. Citizens, individuals need to be on alert that if they see something, they need to say something, because those that want to do us harm potentially might take advantage of our national holiday to try and do that.