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David Sweat is talking to the police; New Jersey governor Chris Christie is running for president in 2016; Greece is getting closer and closer to defaulting on the brink of financial collapse; The fallout of Donald Trump getting the boot from both NBC and Univision 3:30-4p ET

Aired June 30, 2015 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00] REP. MARTHA MCSALLY (R), HOUSE HOMELAND SECURITY COMMITTEE: Citizens and individuals need to be on alert that if they see something, they need to say something because those that want to do us harm may take advantage of our national holiday to try and do that.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: Right. You referenced Kuwait, France and what we saw that happened in Tunisia. But when it comes to threats and intelligence, Congresswoman McSally, you know, what is the biggest difference between what we're really dealing with currently with versus Al-Qaeda?

MCSALLY: So what we saw with Al-Qaeda's model, they were certainly centralized in leadership but then they had affiliates that were going around the world like Al-Qaeda and the Islamic (INAUDIBLE) or Al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula. But they were using couriers, you know, living in caves, trying to get their messages and trying to plot very sensationalist and large attacks. And after 9/11, really, we were unsuccessful in doing that.

What we have ISIS in this new generation is they are trying to use very sophisticated social media techniques to inspire home-grown extremists all over the world, to attack foreign fighters over 20,000 are known to have been flowing from countries all over the world. Over 4,000 from western countries into Iraq and Syria to get training and then join the fight and join the caliphate. Several of them have flowed out. Many of them from western and visa weaver countries and come American.

And so, what we have is their sophisticated use of trying to inspire individuals to take action in their own hands in smaller scale terrorist accounts like we saw. I mean, certainly there is a large loss of life like we saw in Tunisia. But they are not as complicated to plan like a 9/11-type attack. This becomes more difficult, obviously, to prevent and to intercept.

BALDWIN: I'm sure.

MCSALLY: Which is why - yes. So family members, individuals, really law enforcement can't do it all. So for those who are closest to someone who might becoming radicalized for their family member, a teacher, a coach, or religious leader, really that's the most important vigilance is if something doesn't seem right, report it. BALDWIN: Yes. Congresswoman Martha McSally, thank you very much. I

really appreciate it.

MCSALLY: Enjoy your holiday. Don't leave in fear, but let's be vigilant and make sure that we win.

BALDWIN: I'll be in D.C. taking in the fireworks myself. You got it. Thank you, ma'am, very much.

MCSALLY: Great.

BALDWIN: Much more on our breaking story here.

We now know the two fugitives, Richard Matt and David Sweat, pulled off a dry run of this whole escape before they actually finally pulled it off. So next, we'll talk to one of that prison's most well-known former inmates, Michael Alig. He will tell us what it was like, how the guards, you know, got along with some of those prisoners, how they could have pulled off this testing of this escape. And also what kind of drugs are running rampant in these prisons. Drug trafficking issues. We'll explore all of that with him, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:36:51] BALDWIN: And we are back with breaking news.

The now captured fugitive David Sweat, he is talking and what he's telling police is this. In a word, it's shocking. The convicted murderer saying that as most the prison slept and especially those guards on that honor block where he was living, he and his fellow inmate Richard Matt were able to pull off a practice run the night before they tunneled out of the Clinton correctional facility for good. This comes here now as we're learning that 12 people, including top brass here, three executives have just been suspended as they are now taking a good, deep dive into what was going on at these facilities.

Let's talk about this with someone who know what is life is like on the inside. Michael Alig served 17 years for manslaughter and some of that time was served at Clinton correctional facility who has just released last year. He is just getting used to life, as you were telling me in commercial break, on the outside. So thank you so much for coming by.

You know, we were - in commercial, you were saying to me well, do we even know how far they got on their dry run? You were saying they must have precisely synchronized their watches to meet at the exact time to get out of their cells to head out.

MICHAEL ALIG, FORMER INMATE, CLINTON CORRECTIONAL FACILITY: I mean, it is not so surprising because all they have to do is plot and scheme, you know. Their days are spent brainstorming ideas on how to get out, you know.

BALDWIN: The fact that perhaps they were doing this with full knowledge, having spent a lot of time there, that these guards around this honor block, which you're thinking was upstairs from you, were sleeping?

ALIG: That also would not surprise me, especially in honor's block. I mean, you have to give them a little bit of leeway. I mean, you know, it's been 130 years and this has never happened and the inmates are all safely locked away in their cells and its 3:00 in the morning and they are probably -- they are working the late shift but they are probably not on the late, you know, shift time. They are probably on sleeping time. And you know, they may have even worked a double shift that day. So that would literally be their sleeping time. So, you know, it's not like people are running around outside of their cell. I mean, they were this time. But it doesn't happen very often.

BALDWIN: It doesn't happen?

ALIG: No.

BALDWIN: How friendly were you all with the correction officers?

ALIG: That kind of shocked me when first I got to their house, apparently everybody was playing cards and on a first name basis and things like that knowing about their kids and their pets and, you know, burying their cats and dogs and making portraits of children and things like that.

BALDWIN: But the fact that, you know, apparently -- and again, this one guard who was in custody, who was in court yesterday in Plattsburg were saying, no, I had no idea that I was bringing in hamburger meat full of hacksaws. You know, he's saying he had no idea. But at the same time I'm hearing other reporting that there were other guards to this facility who had cabins in the woods where they were ultimately found showing pictures of their summer places. So they were fully aware of what was on the outside.

ALIG: Yes. I mean, what he is saying he knew that he was bringing in hamburger but --

BALDWIN: He's saying he had no idea, this correction officer, right?

ALIG: Yes, right. He had no idea what?

BALDWIN: That he was bringing in weapons ultimately to help these two guys escape.

ALIG: Well, I suppose there's a possibility, I mean, that he brought in the big type of meat and didn't know that it had a shank in or something. I mean, I guess --

BALDWIN: So you are saying people are bringing in Omaha steaks to you guys?

[15:40:03] ALIG: Yes. Well, officers were.

BALDWIN: Officers were. What did you see come and go that you can now talk about?

ALIG: Mostly like, you know, mostly cooking utensils like frying pan, and skillets and electric stove and coffee pots, coffee makers and things like that.

BALDWIN: What about drugs?

ALIG: That's a given.

BALDWIN: That's a given?

ALIG: Yes.

BALDWIN: Heroin?

ALIG: Heroin, cocaine, ecstasy, marijuana.

BALDWIN: All of it?

ALIG: Yes.

BALDWIN: Who brings it in?

ALIG: I know you want me to say the officers.

BALDWIN: No. I want you to say the truth. The officers, doctors, nurses?

ALIG: I mean, it has been -- there have been occasions when officers were caught bringing these things in and they usually have some kind of deal made with the inmates where they will get rid of. But now, you know, the big seller in the department of corrections is tobacco because tobacco products are illegal now.

BALDWIN: That's the top of hierarchy of things to --

ALIG: Right. Because it's the cheapest you can get. Cheapest thing you can get. If you're caught with it, it's not against the law so you're not really breaking any laws and the profit margin is like, you know, 10,000 percent.

BALDWIN: It is the draws that they are now investigating, though, at these facilities. Specifically, they were mentioning heroin and so I'm wondering if I'm, you know, this corrections officer and clearly my two biggest fears are someone trying to escape or someone wanting to riot. And so, I could see perhaps as someone would want to befriend and make nice.

ALIG: Right. That's exactly why they do it. Because they have to walk around the yard. And you know, the ratio is something like one to 100, you know, guards to inmates. So they are outrageously outnumbered. If there was ever a riot, they would be killed, probably. So, yes, they want to make friends with the inmates, they want to play cards with them, they want them to tell the inmates to give them information, they want, you know, they want people to snitch on each other.

BALDWIN: Speaking of snitching, are you surprised that David Sweat is talking as much as he is? Do you believe a word of what he's saying?

ALIG: You know, I don't know exactly what he has to lose right now. I don't know what his sentence was.

BALDWIN: He is saying, hey, this was my getaway card. Yes, the seamstress was going to take us. We were headed to Mexico.

ALIG: I mean, what are his ulterior motives? I mean, does he have any -- is he going to get out of anything?

BALDWIN: Would you be talking?

ALIG: I mean, it depends if I had, you know, one year to go, I might. But I don't think he does. I mean, if he did, why would he have escaped?

BALDWIN: He's away forever.

ALIG: Well then, yes, then I mean, he has no - you know, then yes, I would believe him. Because he's not going to get anything out of it. He may not go to solitary confinement or something like that.

BALDWIN: Right. That's precisely right.

Michael Alig, thank you. I really appreciate it.

ALIG: Yes.

BALDWIN: Coming up at the top of the show, we reported Mexico is now officially pulling out of Donald Trump's Miss Universe pageant which is set to no longer air but happen in two weeks. CNN confirming another high-profile star is also ditching Donald Trump because of his controversial comments involving Mexicans. We'll share that with you, coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:47:12] BALDWIN: New breaking news here on the fallout of Donald Trump getting the boot from both NBC and Univision. Both networks severing ties with the USA pageant no longer broadcast in two weeks. All of this after Donald Trump made controversial statements, derogatory statement about Mexican immigrants both on twitter and the campaign trail.

Brian Stelter is on the phone with me who is our CNN senior media correspondent.

We were talking initially, Brian, about Mexico pulling out of Miss Universe and now you have more news.

BRIAN STELTER CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT (via phone): That's right. Now, Miss USA, the pageant, scheduled for two weeks, now in more and more trouble. The co-host of the show, Cheryl Burke, the famous dancer on "Dancing with the Stars," she is going to pull out. She said that today. She is no longer going to be the co-host of the pageant. And it's the problem, Brooke, because it is scheduled for two weeks from today. You know, the pageant has already, you know, planning staging are under way. The contestant are already in Louisiana for this. But now they don't have a co-host. This is latest drift, drift, drift of bad news for the pageant.

This is all occurred because Donald Trump is a part owner of Miss USA. I'm on the way up to Trump New Hampshire campaign event tonight. And I'm sure he's going to be asked about this because now the question is, the pageant can go on?

This morning, Miss USA said that the show go on and will go on as scheduled but it has no television home right now because NBC and Univision have both said they will not air it. And now, they only have one host left, Thomas Robert. He is an MSNBC anchor. And so far, NBC is not getting back to me when I ask if he's going to co-host or not. All we know is Cheryl Burke is pulling out of the show.

BALDWIN: All right. We'll look for you at that Trump event in New Hampshire.

Thank you so much, Brian Stelter.

Speaking of New Hampshire, let's talk about the presidential field.

It keeps getting more and more crowded and today we have number 14, New Jersey governor Chris Christie went back to his old high school to announce he is joining the race. As I mentioned, the 14th Republican candidate. He made his name, cultivated his image as, you know, this blunt guy from New Jersey. He gave us plenty of examples of that in today's announcement speech.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I am not running for president of the United States as a surrogate for being elected prom king of America. I am not looking to be the most popular guy who looks in your eyes every day and tries to figure out what you want to hear, say it and then turn around and do something else.

When I stand up on a stage like this in front of all of you, there is one thing you will know for sure. I mean what I say and I say what I mean and that's what America needs right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: She was there this morning. She's with me now. She's everywhere. She is Dana Bash, our chief congressional correspondent.

You know, so no cue cards, no teleprompter, within in the round situation, so 360 walking around that stage with his family. How did he do?

[15:50:00] DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, in the room he did great. I mean, first of all, I will to say that I definitely got as a jersey girl, I got my fill of Bon Jovi and Bruce Springsteen. So I am happy. And I haven't been in a high school gym in Jersey in a while. So that was nice.

And he actually, he had a kind of a music stand that you could see in some of the shots. And he had some notes that he referred to in an outline I was told by ahead of time. But yes, he didn't have a teleprompter, he didn't want to be still. That he wanted to come across the way people got to know him and, you know, if we go back several years, really like him for the way he talks like a person. Because that really is what he's going for right now, the authenticity thing.

And that has been his problem, Brooke, is that with Bridgegate especially, people said, wait a minute, this is just like another politician, whereas before, because he talked like you and I talked, he didn't talk in political speak, they thought maybe he was different, so these trying to get back to that, and that's how he wants to crawl his way back up in the polls.

BALDWIN: At the high school, that his is where he met David Wildstein of Bridgegate fame?

BASH: Exactly.

BALDWIN: That's part of his past and his present as well. We know that I think strategy wise, I mean, it's like all New Hampshire or bust, right?

BASH: Exactly.

BALDWIN: I mean, he is sort of going all in?

BASH: He is now his way there as we speak.

BALDWIN: He is.

BASH: Yes. He didn't waste a breath, left his high school gym. He's headed to New Hampshire. He's going to be there for five days. And the reason is pretty simple. It is because, first of all, New Hampshire loves the kind of town hall setting that Chris Christie is really good at. And so that's fertile ground for him, for his political comeback, if there is one.

You know, sort of have said so much but it bears repeating John McCain did that successfully back in 2007 and 2008. He's trying that pattern. But John McCain did not have a field of 14, 16 people. It's a very different kind of field right now. And he didn't have another straight talker you were just talking about with Brian Stelter, Donald Trump.

BALDWIN: How will that go on those debate stages? That's the image I'm looking for.

Dana Bash on her vacation day coming in and doing politics. This is why we love this woman. Dana Bash, thank you very much.

Next, Greece is getting closer and closer to defaulting on the brink of financial collapse here. President Obama is asked, would Greece crash the world economy? His response to that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [15:56:27] BALDWIN: The debt crisis in Greece coming down to the wire. Banks there are closed. They will be closed all week in fact. And Greek officials today made a last minute request for a new bailout. Just hours before they are expected to miss a midnight deadline to make this required debt payment. President Obama said today, great default could put a debt in Europe's growth. But he doesn't expect it will cause major shock here in the United States. Let's hope he is right about that.

Erin Burnett is with me, anchor's of CNN's "ERIN BURNETT, OUTFRONT.

So Greece will default on its loan.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST, OUTFRONT: They're going to default on this loan. And they're not going to get an emergency bailout. You know, European leaders say that's it, that's it, Greece, you're leaving the euro. And Greece says, no, we're just defaulting on this one loan, you know. They have been playing chicken with this staying in the euro thing for a while.

Look, it is a big deal if they leave the euro, 16-year-old currency. It's a real currency. It is a stable currency. No one's left it yet. So that would be a very big precedent. But it has been five year Greece has been playing this game of chicken with the euro. And frankly, over that time Europe's gotten ready.

If you look at the euro as a currency versus the dollar, it's having its best quarter in four years against the dollar which just as a little statistic means Europe has sort of priced this in. They're prepared. They are ready for Greece to go.

And when you look at the contagion, you know, few years ago when this happen, Brooke, when we heard these little games from Greece, the world really panics. At one point, Spain which has a lot of debt and a lot of problems like Greece, in 2011, Greece had a little situation like this one, a referendum. They were going to vote. Interest rates in Spain went to 6.7 percent because it fear about Greece.

This week, when they're really about to leave, when it really could be about to happen, they went to 2.3 percent. So it's something that over the past few years is death by a thousand cuts. The world seems to have gotten more prepared for it.

BALDWIN: So then as far as the United States is concerned, the president, you know, isn't as concerned as it sounds like, is that a fair assessment?

BURNETT: He's right. Look, yesterday market in the U.S. had their worst day this year, right? So in that sense he's wrong. I mean, there is fear, because if you all of a sudden have one of the world's premiere currencies can just starts of crumble away, that's a big deal, that's bad for the United States.

But you know, the euro has changed the world, right, united Europe has changed the world. It's change the world or the United States. So I n that sense it is a big deal for the U.S. It could mean two things, though, for the U.S., Brooke. One of them is if Europe does get a dent in their growth, as the president indicated, that could mean it hurts the U.S. a little bit, just enough for the feds to not raise interest rates quickly. So then you can get a cheaper mortgage for a little bit longer, right? So there are some scenarios that aren't that terrible.

But Greece is a country, it is a deadbeat country, OK? When you look at U.S. company investment in Greece, this is actually amazing, a billion dollars or $4.7 trillion worldwide in American investment. That's .0002 percent. So the president is completely right when it comes to that.

BALDWIN: OK.

BURNETT: Our investment in Ireland is 250 times greater and it's still many skill.

BALDWIN: OK. I hear you, perspective, OK.

BURNETT: But yet, it is important, right, you have a country leave the euro. That really is what happens, that is going to be the first time. So when you say everyone's ready, everyone's prepared, when it actually happens, we'll see.

BALDWIN: I know you have this tonight. I know I would be remiss as a journalist and a colleague not to ask you about this big guest you have on tonight. Totally not related to Greece, but 20 seconds.

BURNETT: Right. We're going to be talking to Pamela Sweat, of course, the mother of David Sweat who is now appears improving a little bit, but talking a lot to authorities in the hospital. So she is going to come on and talk about her son. And how she says she knew he was trouble when he was a kid, some of the things that he did are pretty incredible.

BALDWIN: That's a tune in factor. Erin Burnett, thank you very much.

BURNETT: Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: 7:00 p.m. tonight. Erin Burnett "OUTFRONT."

And that dies it for me. I'm Brooke Baldwin here in New York. Let's send you to Washington. "The LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts now.