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FBI and ATF Investigate Mt. Zion Fire in South Carolina; David Sweat Reveals Details of Escape; Security Tightens for July 4th Holiday Weekend; Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired July 01, 2015 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:00] PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Andy Scholes, thank you so much. We appreciate it.

And the next hour of CNN NEWSROOM begins right now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN (voice-over): Happening now in the NEWSROOM, on alert, the FBI and Homeland Security prepping for potential terror attacks in the U.S. more police, more security at celebrations this holiday weekend.

Plus, captured escapee David Sweat spills the beans, giving details about he -- how he and Richard Matt rehearsed their breakout the night before their escape. Now with 12 prison workers suspended, how many could have played a role in this Shawshank-style getaway.

And a big day for the U.S. and Cuba. The two countries to announce an agreement to restore diplomatic relations for the first time, that means embassies from C.V. Havana for the first time in more than 50 years.

Let's talk live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

Good morning to you. I'm Pamela Brown in for Carol Costello. Thank you so much for being here with us today.

And we begin with breaking news out of Greeleyville, South Carolina. We're expecting a news conference to begin at any moment now.

Right here you're looking at live pictures of their town hall. Officials are expected to speak about the fire that burned the Mount Zion AME Church there last night. That fire marking the sixth black church to have burned in recent weeks. The FBI and ATF haven't linked any of these fires and there were reports of lightning in the area around the time of the fire.

Our Victor Blackwell joins us from a town hall in Greeleyville, South Carolina, with more.

Victor, what's the latest?

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via phone): Pamela, we're looking at members of the state House and state Senate. I think they're about to begin. Let's listen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good morning, everybody. And welcome to Greeleyville, South Carolina, that we affectionately refer to as the small town with a big heart.

RONNIE SABB, SOUTH CAROLINA STATE SENATOR: Last evening, we witnessed a church building consumed by fire. We distinguish church building from the church for we know that the church rests in the hearts and minds of its members and those of us who appreciate the church and what it represents.

My name is Ronnie Sabb. I'm a Greeleyvillean and a state senator for District 32.

Let me just make a couple of brief remarks and then we will have others that will come and address you. And I really want to start off by expressing my appreciation to all of those volunteer firefighters, not only from here in Greeleyville and the surrounding areas, Kingstree, but also from the Clarendon County next door, and Berkeley County, and our friends and neighbors over at South Lynches.

All who came here and worked hand in hand to do what they could, number one, to make certain that there were no injuries or fatalities, and number two, to save as much of the structure as they could. We witnessed them performing magnificently, extremely proud of what they did and what they attempted to do.

Let me also express my appreciation for the leadership from the AME Church. Pastor Reverend John Taylor, Elder Allen Parrott. The AME Church continues to be the kind of institution that's woven into the fabric of America and what makes America strong and the leadership that they experienced last night was stellar. And we just simply want to express our appreciation to them.

We appreciate all of the leadership from the surrounding area, some of whom are here with us now. My supervisor to my left. Elder Parrott being to my right. And we were just asking simply that we give law enforcement the opportunity that they need. We have full confidence in our law enforcement. I spoke with our chief of SLED this morning who dispatched the members of his organization immediately when they got the request from our chief.

They were here along with the ATF unit and they pledged every bit of resources that is necessary in order for us to find out the origin of this fire. And so we simply want to not stand in judgment, allow law enforcement to do what it does best, and again, we have full confidence in their ability to do just those things.

Now I am now going to ask the mayor of the town of Greeleyville, Jesse Parker, to please come forth and give a couple of brief remarks.

MAYOR JESSE PARKER, GREELEYVILLE, SOUTH CAROLINA: Good morning, everyone. My name is Jesse Parker. And I'm mayor of the town of Greeleyville here.

[10:05:03] I think Senator Sabb has pretty much covered most of what I would even say here this morning. Let me just say that Greeleyville is, like he says, a small community with a big heart, like he said. You're in a community where everybody knows everybody. We called, everybody calls each other around here by their first name. And when we went out to the scene last night, we were saddened by what we saw there.

I can remember some 19 to 20 years ago being on that same site when then President Bill Clinton came down and helped to dedicate that church from one that was burned a couple of years earlier and to ride up there last night and to see the church in flame again, it just -- it gives you an ill feeling. And like we said, we don't know what happened, what started the fire. We're going to yield that to SLED and all the other law enforcement officials to figure out what happened out there.

But we'll just say right now that we will continue to pray for that church. We ask that you continue to pray for the church and the Greeleyville community because we need prayer at this time. I mean, it's a hurtful feeling and sad to know that such a thing has happened, you know, just that quick. I mean, it felt almost like just a few years ago, when I rode up there last night, it brought back all those old memories as to what happened at that time.

But we just ask that you continue to pray for Greeleyville, pray for the church, and we'll get through this. We'll get through this. Thank you.

At this time, we want to bring up Elder Allen Parrott.

ALLEN PARROTT, AME CHURCH ELDER: Good morning. First of all, on behalf of Bishop Richard Franklin Norris, the presiding bishop here in South Carolina, he wishes to express his love and concern to the members of Mt. Zion African Methodist Episcopal Church, and to let them know that his prayers and thoughts are with them.

Secondly, our concern is for the church family and for this larger community, that they stay together and we move forward and seek to help them to get back to a place where they need to be in terms of a worship center and site. So we are a little distressed whenever something happens to a place of worship. It causes you to feel a great deal of remorse. But at the same time, we are never without hope.

And so weeping indeed endures for a night but joy always comes in the morning. And so the commitment of the membership, the pastor, Reverend John Taylor, is to move forward and I want to thank county supervisor Stanley Paisley who's already indicated that they will help in providing us with temporary worship site until we can move forward.

So, again, we continue to lift up the Mt. Zion Church family and pray that things will work out. Thank you.

At this time, I want to present the State Representative Cezar McKnight who serves in this area. Representative McKnight?

CEZAR MCKNIGHT (D), SOUTH CAROLINA STATE REPRESENTATIVE: Good morning. And thank you, Elder Parrott. It's with a heavy heart that we see that we have lost --

BROWN: We're going to step away from this press conference there in Greeleyville, South Carolina. We're hoping to hear from investigators. If we do, we'll bring you back there. But the leaders there from South Carolina are saying at this point we still don't know the cause of this church fire, the Mt. Zion AME Church, a historic church, and the sixth church to burn down just in the past few weeks.

So for more on the investigation, for more on this, I want to bring in CNN law enforcement analyst and former FBI assistant director Tom Fuentes, along with security expert and former ATF executive Matthew Horace.

Thank you both for being here with us.

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Thank you.

BROWN: Tom, let's start with you here because when you hear about so many churches in such a short period of time being burned down like this, what goes through an investigator's head?

FUENTES: Well, first of all, Pamela, if I could add that I just learned within the last 10 minutes from senior officials at the FBI, this fire has been determined to not be arson. And they also have information from the National Weather Service Radar System that there were lightning strikes involved. But they have found -- the FBI and ATF investigators at the scene have just reported back to their headquarters that there was no accelerant found, there was no evidence whatsoever that this church fire was arson. And it is strongly believed at this point that this was a lightning-started fire.

[10:10:10] BROWN: All right. Tom Fuentes breaking some news for us here. But regardless, you know, you can't help but notice the fact that again this is the sixth black church dealing with this situation, Matthew. The ATF got called in immediately not only because it's a religious institution but because of what we've been seeing. We're learning now that it's likely the lightning that caused this fire. But I imagine there was a tremendous amount of concern that this could be something more sinister initially.

MATTHEW HORACE, FORMER ATF EXECUTIVE: Sure. Well, Pam, as you know, given the current climate, that may always be a concern of the community and of law enforcement. But a fire is a fire until it's determined to be an arson or until there's another determination made.

BROWN: Right. And we've seen these other fires have been determined to be an arson following the shooting of the nine people killed in that Charleston church.

It had been reported, Matthew, that agents had been going out, bringing out the sniffer dogs when the embers cool. Tell us what that process is like. What are they looking for and how are they able to so quickly determine really that it was lightning that may have caused this?

HORACE: Well, let me tell you what happens. Our sole responsibility is to develop a cause and origin, exactly what happened and what caused the fire. And that begins with interviewing the people who first put eyes on the fire scene. The firefighters whether they're volunteer or paid firemen, what color were the flames, what color is the smoke, where was the fire concentrated? How old is the building, what's the size of the building and what other evidence you can find in and around the scene.

That will also include accelerant-sniffing canines, investigators, artists, forensic engineers and the like. And that's what we use to make that determination. In this case, they've already declared that it's not an arson so that helps us to be able to move on and sort of gather the facts and validate that fact.

BROWN: And we do hope to hear from the investigators on the ground there because the leaders said that we don't -- we still don't know for sure and of course that press conference is still ongoing.

But, Tom, even if this was caused by lightning, there have been a number of other fires at black churches recently. How can agents determine whether or not these fires are linked?

FUENTES: Well, first of all, what Matthew said is a big part of this. The ATF experts working with the FBI experts determine first of all arson or other causes. And, you know, they start with that. What the FBI additionally does is it has a very extensive domestic terrorism program, particularly against white hate groups, KKK, going back 100 years, and many other, Aryan Nation and other such groups, and determine from their Web sites, is anybody taking credit, has there anybody possibly linked to one or more of these attacks, chattering with each other online or through their social networks.

So that's a big part of this, is the intelligence. But I should add, on a national basis, there is a single church fire every single day of the week in the United States. And about 60 percent of these fires, which are all denominations, all religions, all ethnicities, all races, about 60 percent of those fires are determined to be arson. And the vast majority of those are determined to be insurance fraud cases.

Now this case is believed lightning. But I'm just saying on a general basis that when lightning doesn't strike -- and many of these churches are old. In some cases, more than 100 years old. So the slightest electrical spark or gas leak or lightning strike can bring a whole church down very, very quickly based on just the age of the building and the construction of the building also.

But, yes, the efforts to try to determine if there's a white hate group behind this, if individuals acting alone or acting as part of a group in a network, in a conspiracy, have done this, there is extensive investigation to try to determine that and bring them to justice if that's the case.

BROWN: All right. Tom Fuentes, Matthew Horace, thank you very much.

FUENTES: Thank you. BROWN: And still to come right here in NEWSROOM, concerns over an

ISIS-inspired attack over the holiday weekend here in the U.S. The steps the FBI is taking to try to prevent it.

[10:14:20]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Two convicted killers slip outside the prison walls only to return to their cells and plot their escape. David Sweat shocks investigators. He and Richard Matt rehearsed their dash through the prison's tunnels and pipes and even popped open a manhole outside the prison walls. But they decided to wait until the next night when they could find a more isolated manhole.

As Sweat talks, damning accusations build up against the prison and how it was run. Twelve prison employees are put on leave, including three top executives.

Let's bring in CNN correspondent Jean Casarez who's right outside the prison.

And, Jean, you have some new information on Richard Matt, the escapee who was killed by police. What are you learning?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN LEGAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. The Alice Hyde Medical Center in Malone, New York, has confirmed with me that they have the body of Richard Matt. They also tell me that a family member is not going to be claiming him so he will become property of the county, Franklin County, New York. He will have a county burial. And she expects as soon as today that the county will come and pick him up.

And ironically, the Alice Hyde Medical Center is where Joyce Mitchell went when she had her anxiety attack that she didn't pick up the inmates to escape with them. That secondly, it is where David Sweat was taken by ambulance on Sunday after he was captured and shot. And now the body of Richard Matt is there also.

And CNN has obtained a picture of Richard Matt, it was moments after he was shot. We do want to show it to you but we want to tell you this is a graphic image in case you have a concern or any members of your children or your family are in the room. But that is moments after he was shot, you can see the dark clothing that he has on. The dark brown pants, the forest green jacket. The backpack that is next to him.

[10:20:19] Authorities say that he definitely could assimilate into the woods and not be seen. And that is definitely what David Sweat, alive and in the hospital in Albany, is telling authorities. He is saying that he was actually the mastermind of this entire plot, that they started working on it in January, that they used hacksaws, not power tools, to get through and saw through the cell and into the piping area.

That they did a rehearsal the night before on June 5th. And they actually popped open a manhole but they saw that it was not as a -- it was a little too urban for them. There was a church, there was a power plant, so the next night they found a pothole that had a little anonymity to it.

He also said that when they were on the run, and this is according to NBC News, at one point that Matt fell over when he saw a sheriff's deputy close to them but the deputy didn't hear them. Also NBC News reporting that at one point Sweat says when he was alone, he was in an area -- in a tree where you could hunt from, a blind. And he saw people searching for him below but he didn't see -- they didn't see him. There was a transistor AM radio that they used to monitor the search to make sure that they were not found.

And also ABC News is reporting more information. He's talking a lot. And this is according to the district attorney, Andrew Wylie, that at one point, both of them saw owners of a cabin -- they were approaching their cabin and saying, should we stay here or should we just check it out and leave? When they left, then they proceeded along their way for their escape -- Pam.

BROWN: Wow, a lot of new details there, Jean Casarez. Thank you so much for bringing us up to speed with that story.

Meantime, heavily armed police squads, bomb-sniffing dogs and radiation detection units will be out in force this July 4th holiday weekend. Law enforcement officials are stepping up security from coast to coast. They're trying to prevent possible lone wolf terror attacks by ISIS supporters.

In a joint bulletin to 18,000 law enforcement agencies nationwide, the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security warn that this upcoming holiday weekend could be, quote, "an attractive target for attackers."

For more on this, let's bring in CNN justice reporter Evan Perez and CNN intelligence and security analyst Robert Baer.

Evan, I'm going to start with you here. Why are authorities more worried about this July Fourth being a target compared to last year?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Pam, every Fourth of July is a time of heightened alert. But you're right, this year is more so than past and that's partly because of the increased activity by -- that the FBI and other law enforcement officials see from ISIS supporters here in the United States. There's hundreds of them that are under monitoring, that are being investigated around the country.

And what the concern really is about the ones that the FBI and law enforcement is afraid that they don't know about. It's the people that they haven't found yet and really some of this -- the change in their attitude about this came about after the attack in Garland, Texas, a few weeks ago. It really alerted them to the idea that there are some attackers out there who perhaps are not on their radar and that's what they're worried about.

BROWN: And Robert, let's talk about that, because as Evan pointed out, they're more worried about what they don't know. We're being told that there isn't specific incredible intelligence suggesting there will be an attack on July 4th. But why is it so difficult? Explain to us why it's so difficult for authorities to know ahead of time before an attack if something is going to happen given the current threat environment?

ROBERT BAER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, Pam, the FBI are on these people. They get on the net. New beheadings and the rest of it that goes with the Islamic State. But that doesn't mean they're ready to turn the violence and the problem for the FBI is getting inside their head. So they can go knock on their door, you know, are you radicalized, those sort of questions, but it doesn't really tell you a whole lot.

And as Evan said, there's also the possibility there are people that don't go on the Internet, don't get on the phone, call Syria or Iraq or whatever, and that are simply looking at -- their copycats. They're looking at the beheading in France, they're looking at the shooting in Tunisia, and said, no, this is the way I'm going to support the Islamic State. And there's absolutely no sign of them. And of course there's nothing the FBI can do about that. And as Evan said, that's their major fear.

BROWN: Yes. It's really troubling when you think about that. Authorities are doing what they can to put precautions forward before this weekend. And in fact we're learning the NYPD will have bomb- sniffing dogs and heavily armed police squads out on the streets.

[10:25:04] But, Bob, are there other measures the public may not be aware of that authorities are likely to take this year to counter the terror threat?

BAER: I think that the FBI is going to be more aggressive than the police. They're simply going to knock on people's doors, get search warrants, start looking through their stuff, trying to check to see if they're buying weapons. It's so easy to get an automatic weapon in this country. $300 or $400 will get you a Kalashnikov in the city.

It's that kind of connection they're looking for. Whether there's an overt act that one of these people take. And you know, it's a needle in a haystack. And they are on this. But you know, one is going to get through eventually.

BROWN: I keep hearing, when I talk to counterterrorism officials hearing the word defuse. It is so hard to keep track and detect all of the threats out there.

Evan Perez and Bob Baer, thank you so much for coming on and explaining that to us.

And we want to turn now back to that fire that burned the Mt. Zion AME Church in South Carolina last night. Officials spoke just moments ago saying it's too early to pinpoint a cause.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CRAIG CHILLCOTT, ASSISTANT SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE, ATF: And as far as the facts surrounding that question, we haven't ruled anything in or anything out at this point. We're going to let the case dictate and we're going to investigate it as the facts will ultimately determine who occurred.

I can tell you that we've been working with our state and local partners. As of last night when we got called, we had special agents arrive on the scene last night as well as certified fire investigators and they've been working the scene diligently all night again with our state and local partners.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: That fire marking the sixth black church to have burned in recent weeks. And again, as we heard there, investigators have not linked any of the fires. But there were reports of lightning in that area around the time of the fire.

We're going to be right back. Stay with us.

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