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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

A Discussion About How To Improve The Correctional System; Macy's Dumps Donald Trump; Parts Of Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana and Texas Denying Marriage Licenses To Same-Sex Couples; Family Starts Organization To Educate About Genetic Diseases; Katy Perry and Los Angeles Archbishop vs. Nuns And Restaurateur In Property Dispute. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired July 01, 2015 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[12:30:00] JON OZMINT, FORMER DIRECTOR, S.C. DEPT. OF CORRECTIONS: So in many systems we put in places -- in place security screening mechanism most like you would find in an airport where you have a an X-ray machine, a metal detector so you screen every package, every part.

So in this case the hamburger meat would've been run through the X-ray machine and obviously a exile blade would've shown up in places where for variety of mostly political reasons you're not able to do that. Then your front gate becomes much more of an entry way for contraband to get in.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: When we think of David Sweat going back to prison. How do officials stop him from escaping again?

OZMINT: Well, I imagine Mr. Sweat, my guess is Mr. Sweat well -- his case will be reviewed and he'll probably wine up in, in the administrative segregation unit or a super max unit if New York State has such a facility available to it. That would be my guess.

His movement will be very limited, he'll basically be confined to a cell for 23 hours a day. He'll have sometime for shower sometime for recreation and some privileges such as visitation and that kind of thing restored every time that the irony in all of this is that at the same time, now we have people calling for Mr. Sweat to be put into administrative segregation and not showing the light of day just as we're having this conversation on capitol hill and in state capitols across the country. The use of administrative segregation is being scrutinized specially with regard to the length of stay.

So while family members and victim -- of victims may want Mr. Sweat to be in at sake for years and years. The truth is we know administrative segregation is not that -- is not a good thing for human beings.

And we're being -- corrections is being criticized on the one hand for not having Mr. Sweat and people of his ilk, in administrative segregation. With the other hand, you got politicians criticizing corrections for not -- for keeping this folks in administrative segregation too long. Politicians really need to make up their mind.

KEILAR: It is part of a bigger conversation...

OZMINT: They need to make up their mind as to what they want.

KEILAR: All right Jon Ozmint, thank you so much, really appreciate you being with us.

And up next big trouble for Donald Trump, Macy's dropping his merchandize, networks dropping his Miss USA pageant, so how come his poll numbers are rising?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:35:43] KEILAR: Donald Trump business problems are suddenly multiplying. Macy's is pulling Trump brand merchandise from it's stores because of the public up roar over his comment about immigration. They say it doesn't live up to Macy's standards. And Trump the business mogul of course Republican candidate, now for the presidential nomination is suing Univision for $500 million. He's claiming breach of contract.

The Spanish language network is refusing to air Trump's Miss USA pageant and like Macy's is sovereignties with the Trump organization.

The flash point again Trump's incendiary description of Mexican and other illegal Latin-American immigrants saying "They're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime, they're rapists" far from apologizing, Trump is doubling down, actually campaigning on his controversial stand in New Hampshire.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, BUSINESSMAN & GOP PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And I understand everybody loves what I'm doing in terms of the border, because we have to stop the illegals from coming in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: All right I want to talk about the lawsuit now with CNN Senior Legal Analyst Jeffrey Toobin.

Jeffrey, this is really where I wonder, does he have a case or this just sort of a frivolous lawsuit, he's just making a statement.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST.: Well, Brianna, you know, I hate to disappoint the Trump haters out there, and that they are abundant. But, you know, I've studied this really carefully, I spoke to the Trump's lawyer, I've read the complaint in the contract. And I ask the lawyer, send me the contract, send me the actual underlined contract between Univision and the Trump organization. And the interesting thing about that contract is that it does not include a provision as many contracts do for breach in light of improper behavior, conduct detrimental.

But that actually gives Trump an opening to say, this is not something that you have the right to terminate the contract. And in fact there's an interest -- another interesting part of the contract, where he quotes himself saying very similar things to what he said in his announcement speech about illegal immigration. And he says in essence, what did you think I thought about these issues. How could you end the contract when I've been saying the same thing all along?

So I don't think this case will ever going to trial, I don't think -- I think it will probably be resolved in an out of court settlement. But it is not a frivolous lawsuit as far as I can tell.

KEILAR: Can Univision counter sue?

TOOBIN: You know, I don't see based on what, I mean, you know, comments about illegal immigration are not liable against Univision.

I think the question is, what happens to Univision and the Miss Universe Pageant. That's really what the lawsuit is about.

Trump himself is not even a party to the case. Interestingly I ask the Trump lawyer, "Well why didn't you sue NBC, they've also cut ties." And he said "Our contact with them is one that as a mandatory arbitration." So there may actually be arbitration as suppose to a lawsuit involving NBC although that hasn't happen yet.

KEILAR: So if there's a settlement between Donald Trump and Univision, what is that look like?

TOOBIN: Well, it looks like money, that's what these cases are ultimately all about.

KEILAR: How much money though, if he's asking for 500 million in this case?

TOOBIN: Well, you know, 500 million is silly. But he is only paid on the order of 3 million a year for the right to be -- to broadcast this. So it would be in the nature of profiting would have lost, I assumed it would be modestly in to the seven figures.

But in terms of Donald Trump's over all financial situation, it's trivial either way. But, you know, the point is Trump is making a political statement here in that, he is saying, "I am not backing away from what I said about illegal immigration." And if you look at these very early polls there is at least 10 percent or so, of the Republican electorate who seems to be responding favorably to this kind of behavior.

[12:40:03] KEILAR: All right, Jeffrey Toobin, thanks so much for chatting about this and also we're going have you stick around, we'll be talking in just a moment about another topic, another legal topic and....

TOOBIN: Indeed.

KEILAR: ...you know -- yes we will be. So, you know, you don't expect at all of Donald Trump recent problems. So it might be working against them, right? No, because (ph) Sir Jeff is not, it seems to be doing the opposite here, just take a look at this CNN/ORC poll his like ability on the rise, he trails only Jeb Bush among Republicans and Independence who lean Republican as the most popular choice for the nomination a month ago. Trump with the 3 percent, he's now at 12.

And up next, since the Supreme Court gave its blessing to same-sex weddings. No more worries, for gays in America, right? Not exactly.

Coming up, more legal news still ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: The Supreme Court decision legalizing gay marriage is historic. But the fight for equal protection under the law isn't over for the LGBT community. 22 counties in Alabama are refusing to issue marriage licenses to same sex couples.

And part of Mississippi, Louisiana and Texas also denying marriage licenses. It doesn't end there though. Currently there's no federal law preventing employers from discriminating against people on the basis of sexual orientation.

[12:45:00] And only these 21 states, as well as Washington D.C. have passed laws prohibiting workplace LGBT discrimination.

I want to bring back CNN Senior Legal Analyst Jeffrey Toobin to talk about what maybe a new phase now in the battle for gay rights.

What are the challenges do you think that we're going to see going up perhaps to the Supreme Court, Jeffrey when it comes to not just the rights of the LGBT community but also the rights of Americans who object to providing services for this community?

TOOBIN: Well, let's talk about the LGBT community first. The big issues are employment discrimination and housing discrimination and those are actually much more likely to be in state legislatures and in Congress rather than in the courts initially because as the graphic showed, there are many states in the country where it is perfectly legal to go into an employee and say, "You know what, you are doing a great job but you're gay, so you're fired."

That's legal in much of the country and it's legal under federal law because Congress has never passed what's known as the ENDA, law E-N-D- A which was a great cause of Senator Edward Kennedy, Senator Jeff Merkley of Oregon has sort of taken it over. It's almost passed the Senate, it has not passed the House. It really has no chance in the House under Republican leadership. But those two issues really are at the center of the civil rights agenda for gay right supporters at the moment.

KEILAR: And the Employer Non-Discrimination Act, some people look at this debate and they say, "The LGBT community should be a protected class." Much the way that people are protected because they're a minority, and where does the argument stand on that and do you think that we could see the courts or other areas of government making moves in this direction?

TOOBIN: Well, they could. Actually one of the curious things about just as Kennedy's opinion both in the same sex marriage case and in the defense of marriage act case is that he never precisely address the question of whether gay people are a protected class, he simply said, "This law, DOMA and the laws banning same sex marriage were discriminatory."

But I think the real action will be in the states and the state legislatures on these questions because that's really where in the first instance we learn whether the law is going to protect a certain group of people. Obviously on that long list that you just presented, many in most of those are forms of discrimination are prohibited under both state and federal law, but they are only prohibited in certain states and not at all under federal law when it comes to gay people.

KEILAR: Real quick because I think this is an important question to ask you, Jeffrey but we're running out of time. We've heard Republicans in the wake of this talk about strike -- some Republicans, talk about striking a balance between religious liberties and LGBT rights.

When you look at that is that about finding some sort of -- is there an actual legal avenue for that? Or do you see that more as just the talking point to kind of split the baby?

TOOBIN: Well, I think it's based on a very narrow group of people, the group of people who have such an objection to same sex marriage, who work for states who want to refuse to perform these weddings. Now, it may be that individuals can be excuse from participation, however, what's quite clear from the Supreme Court's decision and for civil rights group to for -- to file the lawsuit to this effect is that gay people have to have the right to get married in every state, in every county that straight people get to have -- get to get married in this country.

So if individuals don't want to do it that maybe OK but someone else has to do it in every county because the law of the land now is marriage equality in every state.

KEILAR: All right, Jeffry Toobin thank you so much. And up next pop star Katy Perry, well she wants to buy a convent but the nun living there will have none of it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[12:52:57] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And which paper do you want?

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: The Golds may look like a typical family, but look closer.

Seven-year-old Eden can't walk, talk, or do most anything a girl her age would be doing.

She has a progressive neurological deficit known as mucolipidosis type IV. Thankfully, this is a relatively rare genetic disorder, but it is more common among Ashkenazi Jews.

Eden's development stopped at 18 months. Doctor say she'll be blind by 12 and will probably not live beyond early adulthood.

CAROLINE GOLD, FOUNDER OF JSCREEN: Every dream that we had for our daughter was just ended with one phone call.

GUPTA: The Golds thought they had been properly screened for genetic diseases before they got married. Their first child was born healthy.

CAROLINE GOLD: My doctor tested me for a total of eight diseases and Randy's doctor tested him for a total of two diseases. Neither one of our doctors tested us for ML4.

GUPTA: The couple didn't want other families to suffer. So they started an online education and screening program for genetic diseases that are common among Ashkenazi Jews.

At home screening tests are mailed out and the genetic counselor delivers the results over the phone.

RANDY GOLD, FOUNDER OF JSCREEN: JScreen's mission is to provide them information on how to have healthy children of their own.

GUPTA: Just like the Golds who added another daughter to their family.

RANDY GOLD: Eden is here for a purpose, she saves lives everyday.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR: Katy Perry is taking on the nuns and the nuns aren't offering any forgiveness. In one corner, you have Katy Perry and the Los Angeles Archbishop. That's right, together in the same corner and the other, a group of nuns and a rich restaurateur.

At the center of the fight is a multimillion dollar convent and questions over who has the right to sell it. CNN's Stephanie Elam has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Superstar Katy Perry wants to buy a convent. Yup, the woman who belted out "I Kissed a Girl" and "Last Friday Night" reached a $14.5 million deal with Los Angeles Archbishop Jose Gomez to buy the multi-acre hilltop property.

[12:55:13] CATHERINE ROSE, SISTERS OF THE IMMACULATE HEART OF MARY: The Archdiocese is not taking care of us. We've been taking care of ourselves.

ELAM: One problem, some of the surviving Sisters of the Immaculate Heart of Mary believed it was their right to sell the property. So they brokered a reported $15.5 million deal with restaurateur, Dana Hollister.

DANA HOLLISTER, RESTAURATEUR: They have chosen the buyer which is me. They have -- they want to make sure that the money is on to their control and they want to make sure that the property goes on to have a legacy into the future and open to the public. ROSE: We need to know for sure that we'll be taken care of for the --

till the last one passes.

ELAM: But the Archdiocese of Los Angeles has taken civil action to block the deal with Hollister.

In a statement, the Archdiocese argues it was entrusted with the stewardship of the Sisters as well as the convent in 2005 by the Holy See, saying, "The Archdiocese continues to work with the Sisters to ensure that decisions concerning the sale of the property are made in their best interest. We want to make sure no one takes advantage of the Sisters."

Besides the rift with the archbishop, there's another issue for the elderly Sisters. Katy Perry, once they've figured out who the singer is before meeting her.

ROSE: She's a lovely, lovely person, but we just don't agree with her lifestyle. That was a nice meeting but it was all Katy.

ELAM: All Katy down to a closing number.

ROSE: It was happy day. Words will not be (inaudible) happy day, it's not too happy for us though.

ELAM: Perry hasn't responded to CNN's request for comment. Now it will be up to a higher power to decide who wins. No, not the pope but a Los Angeles county judge. Stephanie Elam, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: All right joining me now to talk about this. For the legal view on all of it, we have CNN Legal Analyst, former prosecutor and defense attorney, Paul Callan and we have CNN Legal Analyst and defense attorney, Danny Cevallos

OK, Paul. How does the judge decide who gets to sell this house -- a beautiful house I should say.

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, Brianna, I'm going to get major trouble on this if I go against the nuns. I have a great aunt who was a nun and I'm kind of for the nuns here, but in the end the judge has to look at the paper work, at the documents that are involved in ownership. And, you know, frankly even if the nuns have a persuasive and sympathetic case, if the diocese owns it, they get to sell it and it's all in the paperwork.

KEILAR: So Danny, why would they have tried to sell something that it appears they may not own?

DANNY CEVALLOS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: The question often arises in real estate. What happens if a person conveys property that they don't actually own to which the answer is often, does that ever really happen? Yes, so much so there's an entire body of law dedicated to exactly this issue. What happens? How do we determine who actually owns property? And how do we determine when someone else has a partial interest or if that property has what we call encumbrances or limitations.

Sometimes property is not owned outright and that is something that has to be determined legally and believe me, it is very complex. The law will protect what is called a bona fide or good faith purchaser for value, but to achieve that status, you have to have done your homework as a purchaser. You have to have looked into the title as we all are obligated to do when we buy a home or a condominium and look to make sure that there is an unblemished chain of title.

KEILAR: OK, so...

CALLAN: And Briana the pope is coming to New York later this year, maybe he can straighten out, you know, but...

KEILAR: But we'll tell...

CALLAN: Yes, go ahead. I'm sorry.

KEILAR: But let me -- you have the Archdiocese saying, they want to do this in the best interests of the nuns. Clearly, there is a concern about making sure that they are taken care of here in their elderly years, but it seems like it might be the Archdiocese that owns this house, right? So what -- how does this play out especially considering the restaurateur, that the nuns sold the house to, is currently living in this house.

CALLAN: Well, you know, from the looks of the size of the property, it's more than the welfare of the nuns that's at stake. That's a huge piece of property. There's a lot of money at stake.

The Catholic Church traditionally has been very careful and the ownership agreements are complex where the Roman Catholic Church is involved because seriously they don't want the Vatican or the pope being sued or the bishop being sued. So very piece of property maybe owned in a slightly different way, so once again, it will be -- when the judge looks at the paper work, it's essentially, is it in the name of the diocese? Is it in the name of the nuns? And the judge is going to make that decision.

KEILAR: All right. Danny and Paul, we'll leave it there.

[13:00:00] Thanks so much guys. I really appreciate it and thank you so much for watching. Wolf starts, right now.