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Washington Navy Yard on Lockdown. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired July 02, 2015 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

[09:00:08] POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. 9:00 Eastern, I'm Poppy Harlow in today for Carol Costello. Thank you for being with us.

We are continuing to follow the breaking news out of our nation's capital, Washington, D.C., where hundreds of police are converging on the Navy Yard there following reports of a potential -- I want to emphasize, potential active shooter.

Everyone there are being told to shelter in place. We do not know if there is indeed a gunman or not. We do not know if there has been a shooting or not. This all comes on the heels of a 911 call reporting a shooting on the second floor of Building 197 there. Officers scouring that building and the area surrounding it. Remember, this is the site of where that active shooting was in 2013 that took the lives of 12 people.

The huge response underscores the government's terror warnings ahead of this holiday weekend. Security has been stepped up. Also we're told outside of the White House and also it is being extended for blocks.

Let's go straight -- I believe we have Jeff Zeleny with us on the scene -- Jeff.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Poppy. You're right. I mean, it is still very much an active situation here as you can see. We're on M Street Southeast in Washington, D.C. You can see behind me the Navy Yard is a couple of blocks in the distance. The police presence is as high as it was more than an hour ago when we first arrived here on the scene.

But, Poppy, you set this up just right. There is still no -- there's no confirmation that there was a shooter inside. There were just reports of a shooter inside. And you can see by the response here how on edge this city is and in fact how on edge the country is as we head into this holiday weekend. But we've talked to witnesses who were inside part of the Navy Yard during this -- inside this episode this morning.

They were told to leave. They were told to -- if you couldn't shelter in place -- some were actually running out of the building. But again, no reports of anyone that we can find who actually heard a gunshot. But, Poppy, the police presence has not diminished here at all really

over the last hour or so. So still investigating this. Still a very serious situation here in southeast Washington.

HARLOW: Yes, Jeff, and of course everyone is very alert when you talk about a place where such a tragic mass shooting happened just a few years ago, taking those 12 lives, injuring 14 more.

Stay with us on the scene, Jeff, please. I do want to bring in our justice correspondent Pamela Brown working her sources as always. Also with me for analysis Jonathan Gilliam, former Navy SEAL, former FBI, as well.

Pamela, to you first. Let's talk about the 911 call.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: So we've learned through sources that someone placed a 911 call earlier this morning and said that there was a shooting on the second floor of Building 197. It was at, which as you mentioned, Poppy, is the same building where there was a shooting two years ago where 12 people were shot and killed. So immediately law enforcement responded to this 911 call that was made. The building was evacuated.

And we can tell you -- is that MPD has been going room to room searching hallways, stairwells, bathrooms, every floor, the second floor where the 911 caller said there was a shooting, as well as the third floor, the fifth floor, and so far there hasn't been any indications of a shooting. That's what we're being told. Nothing found. No one has been arrested, we're told, as of now.

What they're really wanting to do is talk to this person, of course, who made that call.

HARLOW: Right.

BROWN: To see if there was really any validity to it. I think this response that we're seeing with all different law enforcement converging is reflective of also, you know, the threats that we face right now. It's significantly high ahead of the holiday weekend. Law enforcement doesn't want to take any chances whatsoever. And you know, the scene has not been cleared yet, Poppy, so we can't jump to any conclusions yet. But so far, we're being told, nothing has been found.

HARLOW: All right. When you talk about the way that security has potentially changed here on the base, has been stepped up since the 2013 shooting. You said FBI is on scene, ATF is on scene, making it immediately. But also do we know if security at this facility was stepped up since that tragic event in 2013?

BROWN: I know right after the tragic event there was talk about that. I don't know if since then if it was suddenly was stepped up.

HARLOW: Right.

BROWN: What I can tell you today, though, is that there were various law enforcement agencies that came together and activated the active shooter protocol, which is what they practice for, there are drills for this. So when that phone call was made that protocol was activated and we saw it play out right here. I mean, it's just amazing to see the response here.

HARLOW: Yes.

BROWN: You know, from this 911 call that was made. Again, we haven't been able to verify it but still a very active situation.

HARLOW: All right, Pamela, stay with us.

Jonathan, to you, what you're seeing. This is a facility, a historic facility, the Washington Navy Yard, 16,000 employees work there. Covers 2.2 million square feet of office space, so when you talk about them looking at Building 197 where the 2013 shooting happened, what we're being told is that, you know, they did not find anything in that building, especially on the second floor. But now they're scouring all of the surrounding buildings.

[09:05:08] JONATHAN GILLIAM, FORMER FBI SPECIAL AGENT: Right.

HARLOW: This will take hours.

GILLIAM: Exactly. And that's why you know we haven't had a confirmed actual shooting at all. Everybody is still being told to lock down and stay and shelter in place because as -- when there is a possibility of an active shooter, law enforcement is actively seeking that shooter. So things change after Columbine to where law enforcement goes directly to the location where they think there may be a shooter.

It doesn't matter what law enforcement it is. The first ones there, they go directly towards that and they try to eliminate that threat. That changed after Columbine and we know why. So the issue that I'm having when I look at this picture is the overwhelming number of law enforcement that is there is telling me -- and it just looks as though they're making this up again as they go along because that is not a coordinated scene right there. That is -- everybody gets where they can.

HARLOW: Jonathan, to be fair, right, we were seeing one shot. We don't have an aerial shot. We don't have multiple camera locations. We're looking at one shot. Is that something we can really decipher from this shot?

GILLIAM: Well, I mean, I can. I have experienced to look at that and say this is just all hands get there. There has to be a better -- I'm not going to go in and criticize them right now, but when they're searching something this large in Washington, D.C., these agencies learned or should have learned from the last shooting that they had there that all the agencies need to coordinate. They need to work together all the time. And that's what I would like to see.

What I see there, though, is everybody show up. So, you know, it's important right now because this is an active scene. There doesn't have to be a shooter for it to be an active scene, though.

HARLOW: Right. All right. Jonathan, thank you. Stay with us.

I want to go to Evan Perez, CNN justice correspondent, in Washington, D.C., talking to his sources at the FBI and elsewhere.

Evan, what are you hearing?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, so far we're still only hearing that they're responding to this 911 call of a man with a gun. They still have not given any official word that there was actually any shooting. We've talked to workers here just next to the Navy Yard. There's a supermarket where a lot of workers have gathered. A lot of them are very frightened, but they all say that -- the ones that I've talked to, they all say that they never actually heard any gunshots unlike the 2013 shooting.

There's still a very heavy police presence as you can see over my shoulder. There are some federal responders that have started pulling out. This appears to be contained. This is not like the last time where we had blocks and blocks of this street -- this is M Street, a very busy area. And the last time when this -- when we had this, you had blocks and blocks of this street that we're cordoned off by the police.

And this is now the response we're seeing right now. I would disagree with the guest just now who was talking about a lack of coordinated response. I think that this is what a coordinated response is, actually. You have all hands on deck because you want to make sure that you secure this area. And that's the response you get.

HARLOW: Evan, what is the feeling you're getting on the ground there? It was just a few years ago, 2013, when that horrific incident broke out at 8:20 in the morning on September 16th. Reports of this 911 call started coming in right around 8:00 a.m. What is your gut instinct as a reporter? What is the sense you get from law enforcement on the ground there?

PEREZ: Well, you know, again, the 2013 shooting we had victims actually, people who were shot.

HARLOW: Right.

PEREZ: That were found on the streets just a couple of blocks away from here. So this is so different because again, you know, you have groups of -- clusters of workers who have been organized clearly as in like a fire drill. As you know, that's what the emergency response is. We talk to them. They're all gathered here. They were at work, some of them were on the Navy Yard ground. They got out. Some of them were just arriving to work.

Again, none of them report that they actually heard or saw any shooting. We know that law enforcement is actively searching these buildings to make sure that they declare them safe. It's going to take hours to do that.

HARLOW: Right. Right.

PEREZ: This is a very large facility. There are thousands of workers who work there.

HARLOW: And Evan, also the fact that Pamela Brown brought up that law enforcement is on heightened alert here in New York City and across this country ahead of the Fourth of July holiday because of the increasing terror threat to this nation. However, no specific plots whatsoever. I should emphasize no specific plots have been uncovered. But do you believe that that has -- is part of what has driven this response this morning? Such a big immediate response just given the heightened alert across the country right now?

PEREZ: I think that's right. I think that's exactly what you expect. And because this facility again is an important naval facility, it's an important symbolic facility here in this city, that that's the reason why you have such a major response. And again, I think the procedure of what I'm told by law enforcement is the procedure at the Navy Yard is when there is any kind of 911 call as they received today of a man with a gun, their procedure is to treat it as an active shooter incident.

[09:10:11] HARLOW: Right.

PEREZ: And so that's what they do. They follow their procedure according to law enforcement officials I've talked to. And you point to the increased threat level that law enforcement says they're under right now. I think that is actually definitely playing into this. I know that in different parts of the city, just a few blocks up the road, there is the capitol. I know that they're on high alert as well.

You can -- as I was riding here, you can see more police presence simply because of this belief that there could be something that could be in the works for this -- the next few days.

HARLOW: All right. Evan Perez, thank you very much.

I want to go to our Tom Fuentes to get some analysis, Tom, former FBI assistant director, former police officer yourself, when calls like this come in, how do you decipher between reality and a hoax?

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, unfortunately, Poppy, they can't unless it's just clearly obvious that the person calling is drunk or some other -- has some other problem. But if it seems to be at all possibly credible, they have to respond. And we've seen this now with the airline hoaxes over the last couple of months. One phone call brings down an international flight to immediately and check the entire plane.

HARLOW: Right.

FUENTES: And unfortunately we've seen this incident now was called in almost two hours ago. And, you know, unfortunately they still haven't determined completely if the indications are from people I'm talking to that it appears to be a false alarm. But now they have to prove a negative and search every building, every room, every closet on the entire complex to try to determine absolutely that it's a false alarm and/or a hoax. So that's the problem here is they can't wait two or three hours later to figure it out if in fact there was an active shooter running around on that base.

HARLOW: And again, Tom, stay with me. Thank you.

Again to reset for our viewers here, what we know at this point in time is that at the Washington Navy Yard where there was that horrific shooting back in 2013 when 12 people were killed, there is now a shelter in place, a shelter in place because of a 911 call that reported a shooting on the second floor of Building 197, that same building where the 2013 shooting took place.

However, however, there has been no sighting, we are told, of any gunman whatsoever. And no one has said that they have heard shots fired. We just want to, again, not be too alarmist here. Let you know what's going on. There's a shelter in place that's why you're seeing all of this police response. But, again, no gunman identified.

And they have cleared the second floor of that building. Now they are scouring the 2.2 million square feet of office space surrounding that just massive, massive Navy Yard.

I want to talk to Lt. Gen. Mark Hertling. He has worked on basis like this before and I want to talk to him about internal security there. As I do, let me read you this from the Pentagon. This coming to us just now from the Pentagon. The Pentagon saying it has not raised its security posture at the Pentagon in reaction to the situation at the Navy Yard. They have not raised their security posture but they are keeping a close eye on what is unfolding, that coming from a Defense official to one of our producers there, Jamie Crawford.

Lieutenant Hertling, your assessment thus far.

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, first of all, Poppy, Good morning. Secondly, I'm watching this now, Tom Fuentes has given some terrific input to this and great analysis. But personally I believe this is a bit of an overreaction. I see the streets clogged with a variety of different law enforcement characters.

And what I'll tell you, from the standpoint of a guy who's commanded large organizations and who has run posts like this, I'm sure the garrison commander at the Washington Naval Yard has done proper coordination with local police. He also has security forces on the base itself. So they probably have a good plan for when something like this goes down.

And what I'll tell you truthfully, I think it's the atmospherics, the environment we're in right now that is causing the overreaction.

HARLOW: Right.

HERTLING: But what's critical is this happens all the time at military bases. When I was commanding in Europe, I would get an average of three calls a week of either an active shooter or a bomb outside of a building.

You had to take the precautions, you had to investigate, you had to put the police and the military police out there. You had to secure the scene and do all those kind of things. But it was normally done in a very calm demeanor because of the Washington naval bases on 9th and M Street right outside the capitol building -- right down the street from the capitol building, there's a lot of very important people.

Heck, the chief of naval operations lives on this base and you have the entire Navy Jag Corps headquarters on this base. And a lot of other high-ranking officials. You have to take action. You add to that what happened in 2013. You have to take action. But truthfully, what I'm seeing right now is perhaps a little bit of overreaction by the civilian police forces that are contributing to try to cordon the scene and get the right response in place.

HARLOW: Can you talk to us, Lieutenant Hertling, about security measures on these bases, how they've been stepped up in the wake of attacks like the 2013 attack there?

HERTLING: Yes, certainly.

A few months ago, as you remember, Poppy, all the military bases in the United States went to force protection level bravo or B. What that means is every single individual was checked as they come onto the base. You have some independent and random searches of vehicles as they come onto the base.

You have increased security patrolling throughout the base itself, both in the official buildings and if there happen to be family quarters on the base, there's going to be more presence of security personnel in those bases.

And I think when you have a 4th of July weekend like this when a lot of people are getting ready to leave for a three or a four-day weekend, even, you're going to see a special amount of security, some extra special checks on those ID cards in those cars. They will probably take more cars than just a random number to check. They may have dogs at the base. I would assume they have dogs at the naval base in Washington. So, there's checking every once in a while every fifth or sixth car to make sure there's no explosive devices.

So, all those things take place. But in force protection bravo, FPCON bravo, as we call it, there is no specific threat. It's just a heightened alert.

Jim Acosta said last night, when it goes to Charlie, then you know someone's looking to attack a specific place or you have a specific threat. We don't have that in the military right now. But you do have al-Adnani's admonishment to all of ISIS to attack everywhere they can. And I'm sure that's what increasing the security concerns and the environmental dismay that we have at the Washington Naval Yard today.

HARLOW: All right. Lieutenant General Mark Hertling, thank you. Stay with me.

I do want to go now to Senator Richard Blumenthal, a Democrat from Connecticut. He joins me live.

You, sir, are part of the Senate Armed Services Committee. I know that this is in the early going, breaking just a little bit over an hour ago.

But what can you tell me in terms of any information you may have received at this point in time about this potential threat?

SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D), CONNECTICUT: One point to keep in perspective, poppy, is that this base is virtually down the block from the United States capitol. It's not just any base. It's a big strategically important base, one that unfortunately has been victimized by terror before. And it is a virtual neighbor to most of the United States government, including the Capitol and not that far from the White House.

So, this heightened precaution, all the security you're seeing playing out is well-justified. To say it's an overreaction I think is a subjective judgment. I don't disagree with the opinions that have been offered. But I think that too much security is, first of all, a well-warranted reaction here given the history.

HARLOW: Can you tell us, sir, given that your office building when you're in Washington is blocks from here, about any changes in security internally, structurally that have been set up there at the Washington Navy Yard in the wake of what happened on September 16th of 2013, in the wake of that shooting?

BLUMENTHAL: The heightened security procedures that have been adopted based on what we know from the attack that occurred previously, but I am not of liberty to talk in detail about them. The capitol, as well as over official Washington buildings are on better and higher alert in this kind of situation to protect anyone who's working there, anyone who's visiting, anyone who may be in the vicinity.

HARLOW: What we have heard, our Pamela Brown reporting from her law enforcement sources is that, Senator, this was a 911 call that came in that reported a shooting on the second floor of Building 197, the same building where the 2013 shooting happened, but that police have not found any evidence of a shooting.

Also, I just want to emphasize here no gunmen have been spotted at this point in time. We haven't seen any victims. No one has said that they heard gunshots. Given all of this, is this the reaction we should be seeing to threats like this? Are you encouraged, frankly, given the heightened alert for potential terrorist activity across this nation around the Independence holiday? Are you encouraged at the reaction you're seeing to this 911 call?

BLUMENTHAL: I'm heartened that this kind of threat is taken seriously.

[09:20:01] The kind of publicity that it's being given, I think, reflects the time of year, the atmospherics, the sense that people are much more watchful and that's all to the good. But at the same time, I hope that we will enjoy this 4th of July. What's great about America is its openness, its freedom, it celebration of its history based on an open and free society.

And I think we all ought to go about enjoying and celebrating those wonderful gifts that makes us the greatest, strongest nation in the history of the world.

HARLOW: Absolutely.

Senator, thank you very much.

If you could stand by with me, I do want to go -- all right. We do have one update for you because last hour, we talked to a member of the Navy who was on base inside when the lockdown began. We want you to listen to his perspective.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LT. CMDR. SCOTT WILLIAMS, U.S. NAVY: We heard someone scream get out of the building, stay away from the cafeteria. And we saw everyone running for the exits or adjoining offices. And just, you know, we weren't near an exit. So there was no time to try to get to an exit. So, we just sheltered in the office. And that was the last we saw. But there was no struggle or anything like that.

HARLOW: Did anyone --

WILLIAMS: Just everyone running to either get to an exit -- go ahead.

HARLOW: Was there any mention of a weapon?

WILLIAMS: No, not from what we could hear. There was no mention of a gunshot near the cafeteria or anything like that, no mention of anything like that. Just get out of the building, stay away from the cafeteria. And that's when we took shelter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Again, hearing from Lieutenant Commander Scott Williams there who was inside when this happened, saying they did not hear any gunshots but they were told, you know, to shelter in place. Some of them very quickly escorted out as well.

I do want to tell you this. We're just getting word from the Navy. Someone with the Navy telling us that this complex of the Washington navy yard is still under lockdown with orders to shelter in place, but, quote, "no incident can be confirmed yet."

Again, the Washington Navy Yard is still under lockdown, shelter in place. However, no incident can be confirmed yet. Again, this is coming from a 911 call of a potential active shooter. They have not confirmed any gunman. They have not heard any shots. They have not seen any victims, and the Navy saying no incident can be confirmed as of yet. Jeff Zeleny on site.

What are you seeing?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Poppy, I think that an important perspective here. No one that we talked to, we talked to the lieutenant commander, and a lot of others who are with him. They did not hear any report of shots fired.

I can tell you, this is such a different feeling out here than 2013 during that shooting. It was very clear there was an active shooting. It became very clear instantaneously. So, a very different situation here.

But, as you It is still on lockdown. If you look behind me here, the police presence has not changed over the last hour or hour and a half or so. They are still going sort of room by room in this building, in this one particular building, Building 197 here.

But there is more of a sense of calm out here certainly. But certainly, people are jittery, people are on edge. But, you know, just to give you a bit of perspective, we're about a mile from the U.S. capitol. The U.S. capitol is increasing security a little bit. That's where all of the 4th of July festivities will be in just a couple days here. So, that's where we are in Washington, D.C.

And you can see behind me here, there are still police from multiple agencies reporting, still hundreds of workers in the area who are unable to report to work in the Navy yard. Again, there are no reports -- no one has confirmed there actually was a shooting, were any shots inside. But this just shows how one 911 call can set this into motion here. But police certainly not taking anything for grants. They are still going room by room, we're told, throughout that building.

HARLOW: Understood. Jeff, stay with me.

As we get some more analysis, I do want to read this to you just coming into U.S. at CNN from the Capitol. As Jeff was just talking about, the Capitol is about a mile away from the Washington Navy Yard.

Here's a statement we're getting. "As a protective measure related to the Washington Navy Yard incident, enhanced security measures may be visible and observed as the U.S. Capitol Police continue to concentrate our assets on the capitol ground." So, they're still focusing on the capitol.

They say we have additional units in the field deployed strategically around the capitol complex as the situation dictates while remaining available to continue to provide mutual support at the Navy Yard. It goes on to say, all U.S. capitol police units on the capitol ground are continuously being kept abreast of the Washington Navy Yard incident and are being extremely diligent in light of the current situation. That coming from Lieutenant Kimberly Schneider of the U.S. Capitol police. [09:25:00] We're also looking at live images of the White House there

in Washington, obviously. The White House, the Pentagon, the capitol, all keeping a close eye on things, given the fact this potential, this 911 call about a potential shooting happened really just blocks from there.

Jonathan Gilliam, to you -- as they are searching these buildings with focus was on building 197, the building where that 2013 deadly shooting took place. It says they have not seen any evidence of shots fired in that building. Walk me through what you're doing now in the all of the surrounding buildings. They do say the shelter in place is still in effect, so they haven't evacuated everyone.

JONATHAN GILLIAM, FORMER NAVY SEAL: Right. So, that means it's still active, when you hear there's an active scene. It doesn't necessarily mean that there has to be active shooter there.

The police have to treat it as though there is a shooter somewhere there. So, they will be going building to building, room to room and clearing this thing as they go through. And this is a very -- they have to be very careful when they go through and do this, because almost 100 percent of the people you're going to come in contact with -- they are workers, they're innocent, they're not doing anything. So, you cannot have trigger happy people going through and doing this type of clearing.

It's a very systematic. It's not as fast and I would say aggressive typically as it would be in a hostage rescue, but at the same time, it has to be at a smooth but fast pace. So, as they go through they're having to discover who's in here and what is the scene of each popular room as they go through. That's where it becomes a little hairy and why it takes so long because they have to move through all these buildings.

HARLOW: All right. Jonathan Gilliam, thank you very much. Stay with me.

GILLIAM: You got it.

HARLOW: We're going to get a quick break in here. Much more of our breaking news from Washington, D.C., right when we get back.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

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