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Trump Stands by Mexico Comments; Pataki Calls on GOP to Denounce Trump; N.Y. Deploys Massive Counterterrorism Plan. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired July 02, 2015 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:29:37] POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: All right. 10:30 Eastern. Bottom of the hour -- resetting for you here. I'm Poppy Harlow in today for my friend Carol Costello. Thank you so much for being with us.

To politics now and really who everyone is talking about right now, Donald Trump sticking by his inflammatory comments on Mexicans, on immigrants, even as retailers one of the biggest retailers in the world pulls away from him. We're talking about Macy's.

Also some of his Republican rivals seeking to distance themselves.

Donald Trump speaking to my colleague Don Lemon just last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm talking not about Mexico. I'm talking about illegal immigration and it has to be stopped, Don, in this country.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Ok.

TRUMP: It's killing our country.

LEMON: Let's talk about Macy's then.

TRUMP: People are pouring in -- Don, people are pouring over the borders, pouring. We have incredible border patrols. These are incredible people, and they're instructed they can't do anything.

LEMON: Why did you have to say they were rapists --

TRUMP: Who is racist? I'm not a racist.

LEMON: Not racist, no. Why did you have to say they were rapists?

TRUMP: Well, if you look at the statistics of people -- I didn't say about -- I say the illegal immigrants. You look at the statistics on rape, on crime, on everything coming in illegally into this country, they're mind-boggling.

LEMON: I read the "Washington Post". I read the "Fusion". I read the "Huffington Post" and that's about women being raped. It's not about criminals coming across the border or entering the country.

TRUMP: Well, somebody is doing the raping, Don. I mean you know -- I mean somebody is doing it. They're women being raped. Well, who is doing the raping?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Fascinating interview with our Don Lemon on CNN tonight last night. Much more of that if you want to watch the whole thing on CNN.com.

His comments, Trump's comments prompting George Pataki, another candidate for 2016 to write an open letter to his fellow candidates. It reads in part this, "Stand up for our party, for the ideals that made America great, and stand for the basic decency and integrity entitled to every American no matter their heritage or nationally."

Let's talk about it.

He went on to say "Join me, stand up now, denounce his comments today."

Let's discuss it with Democratic strategist Robert Zimmerman and conservative talk radio host Ben Ferguson. Guys -- thank you for being here. Robert, let me begin with you.

ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Good morning.

HARLOW: Good morning. I'll begin with you.

Robert, Pataki there following several other candidates who have also spoken out against Trump. Trump is not backing down and I think this really becomes a question of does he care what his competitors think or does he care what the voters think and frankly what some of these poll numbers are showing that it's quite good for him?

ZIMMERMAN: Well, the bigger issue is do we care about Donald Trump thinks? When the smoke clears, at the end of the day he's just another right wing Atlantic City lounge act. But the real, the real crisis confronting the Republican Party is whether it's Donald Trump's racist rhetoric or the vile anti-lesbian and gay rhetoric that we heard from Ben Carson and from Mike Huckabee. According to the CNN/ORC poll those three candidates represent roughly 27 percent of the Republican electorate.

And that is not just a very dangerous environment for the Republicans to build a candidate who can emerge in the general election, it's also very dangerous for our country. Great credit to George Pataki for speaking up and showing leadership the way he did.

The sad thing is to my knowledge he's the only Republican presidential candidate who has had the character and courage to speak up for the integrity of the Republican Party and also for the importance of having a strong presidential candidate.

HARLOW: Ben, Ari Fleischer, former presidential aide saying this about Trump. Quote, "He has an ability to show boat and take over the stage in a non-serious way that is divisive and demeaning and could hurt Republicans everywhere. Is he right? Does this hurt --

BEN FERGUSON, RADIO HOST: Yes.

HARLOW: -- the party or do people see him as an anomaly in his own party?

FERGUSON: Well, it can hurt the party. I mean part of this is -- this is a reality TV star who is taking his show on the road, and people love watching a big train wreck. I think most of the GOP candidates had a strategy early on that I have talked to, and their strategy was don't even acknowledge his existence, don't engage him. He'll eventually dig his own grave and then help bury himself.

Now that I think they realize they all going to have to go after him and attack him and get him out of this as fast as they possibly can because he is going to make a mockery of this.

He's not going to be the President of the United States of America. He's not going to be a vice presidential candidate. He will not be standing even close to the top when it comes to the end of this.

And for Donald Trump ultimately I think he just wants to stick around as long as he possibly can, be incredibly entertaining. But this is a serious race with serious problems, and Donald Trump obviously cannot handle those issues. He couldn't even handle his own issues with his own company with bankruptcies and everything else.

And there's another side of this. Donald Trump is not some big GOP Republican, and some people are trying to act like he is. He's given more money to Democratic candidates than Republican candidates. He's backed more Democratic candidates than Republican candidates. So this idea that he somehow is representing of the GOP, it's just not reality.

HARLOW: I think, Robert, that's an interesting point -- right. Our Jake Tapper asking him in his interview with Trump two weeks ago, look, you've donated multiple times to Hillary Clinton for example.

But I just do want to get you guys' reaction to this -- some of these poll numbers. Because a new CNN poll shows Donald Trump in second place among GOP candidates nationwide. He's gained nine points in a month.

[10:35:03] A separate poll from Quinnipiac showing him in second place in the critical state of Iowa, but also this from the Quinnipiac/Iowa caucus voters' poll. He also when they said any candidates you definitely would not support, 28 percent of people at the top there.

ZIMMERMAN: Number one. That's right.

HARLOW: It was Trump. Robert, your reaction to what these poll numbers tell us. ZIMMERMAN: Poppy, we've seen this movie a few times before. We

remember when Howard Dean surged at one point in his race. Of course, Donald Trump is now the biggest thing since Herman Cain and you know where that ended up. At the end of the day these polls are political viagra. Their rises are artificial and they come down real fast.

The bigger point here is not whether -- the credibility of Donald Trump because he doesn't have any credibility.

FERGUSON: Agree.

ZIMMERMAN: The bigger issue here is the fact that the hatemongering lingers on. The racist comments the Republican presidential candidates do not refute. The anti-LGBT comments that the other candidates do not refute. Their failure to stand up for decency and for civil discourse undermines the Republican Party and ultimately it's bad for our country.

HARLOW: Ben, do these poll numbers surprise you at all, that he has surged so much?

FERGUSON: No, because he's the only one out there that's talking in a big, bold way, and anytime you do that, and this is early on in this campaign, this is not close to election day. He's filling a void. People love people that are blunt and bold.

And if there's anything that you could take away from this, whether you're running for president as a Republican or as a Democrat is if you want to run, people are looking for a bold leader. And when no one is standing at the front being very bold, then somebody like Donald Trump can get some early support. But that doesn't mean that people would actually vote for him. It's more of I like how blunt he's being and I wish we had more of that.

That may be the ultimate takeaway from here, but again, I think with Chris Christie especially jumping into this race now, I think that's going to take a lot of wind out of the sail of Donald Trump. I think they're going to all gang up on him very soon and I think he has a lot of dirty laundry that now these candidates are going to start digging into and he'll come crashing down.

HARLOW: All right.

ZIMMERMAN: But you know, Ben whether Chris Christie adds to the hot air or not isn't going to change the trajectory of the Republican candidates.

FERGUSON: I think all the other candidates are drastically different from Donald Trump, and I will give you one example. None of them gave money to Hillary Clinton's campaign multiple times.

HARLOW: All right guys. I have to jump in there, but guess what, it leaves us with a lot more to debate over the many, many days in this election cycle. Robert Zimmerman, Ben Ferguson -- guys, thank you as always.

FERGUSON: Thanks.

HARLOW: Good to have you on.

Still to come here in New York -- New York deploying its most complex anti-terrorism operation yet to keep Americans safe this Fourth of July. Details next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:41:48] HARLOW: All right. You're looking at live pictures out of our nation's capital. A press conference we're waiting to happen any moment now to address what happened at the Navy Yard, tell us more about the 911 call that came in earlier this morning that alerted so many authorities to put a shelter in place in effect there.

A lockdown there basically because they were quite concerned about what may be taking place. Again -- we got the all clear. There was no active gunman. There was no shooter. It was a false alarm, but there was heightened concern because in 2003 this is the same Navy Yard where that deadly shooting occurred carried out by a former contractor there, a 34-year-old killing 12 people and wounding 14 others. That happened back in 2013.

So a lot of concern about today, but again all clear, all clear as you see the ambulances, police cars clearing out, all the streets are open there again. But people have a lot of questions for the authorities. They will answer those questions at this press conference.

We will bring that to you live as soon as it happens.

Now onto other news. Republican presidential candidate George Pataki hoping some peer pressure will silence Donald Trump. Pataki sending a letter, a letter to more than a dozen of his fellow candidates yesterday asking them to join him in calling out Trump for comments made about immigrants to this country -- illegal immigrants -- referring to them as, quote, "rapists and killers". Here is part of the letter. Let me read it to you. "Stand up

for our party, for the ideals that made America great. And stand up for the basic decency and integrity entitled to every American no matter their heritage or nationality. Join me, stand up now, denounce his comments."

Former New York governor, presidential candidate now, George Pataki joins me now. Thank you for being with me sir.

GEORGE PATAKI (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (via telephone): Good morning -- Poppy. Nice being on with you.

HARLOW: Let's talk about what motivated you to send this letter. Did you feel like you hadn't heard enough from your fellow candidates?

PATAKI: Well, first of all, my reaction to Donald Trump saying that the Mexicans who come here are rapists and drug dealers and criminals was just one of, you know, outrage, and then to top it off by saying "some I assume are good people" just was to me the straw that broke that camel's back. This type of rhetoric doesn't belong in American politics. I'm proud to be a Republican, the party of Lincoln, the party that has always stood for opportunity for everyone, and what has disappointed me is the silence of my fellow candidates.

You know, everybody talks about how the Republicans have to reach out to Latinos and build a stronger party. And yet when this outrageous comment is made, most of them head for the hills. I'm sure they're hoping it will blow over. I hope they're forced to stand up and repudiate these comments.

HARLOW: What do you make of some of these poll numbers now showing Trump really taking a lead, coming in second in the Iowa/Quinnipiac poll, coming in second nationwide in polling among Republicans in terms of GOP candidates. I should note though in the Quinnipiac/Iowa poll for GOP caucus voters, asked any candidate you definitely would not support, Trump came in at number one there in terms of not support.

So clearly he's a candidate that really divides voters, but he has surged in the polls in the last month.

[10:45:06] PATAKI: Well, this early in the process, Poppy, it's all about name ID and Donald Trump is a household name. Some love him, some hate him. He's been a very successful businessman there's no question about it. But on these comments about Mexicans that are so divisive, he's flat out wrong. And I'm sure some of my candidates are afraid or won't stand up to Donald Trump because he'll go on TV and get tremendous press. I'm sure he's going to call me a loser.

I have always gotten along fine with him, but these comments are outrageous. They shouldn't be allowed to hide in the weeds. If they can't stand up for all Americans being treated with dignity, how are they going to stand up to ISIS or some of the leaders in the world who threaten our freedom?

HARLOW: That is interesting you say I have gotten along well with him in the past. You were a former New York governor. He's a man who does a lot of business, has a lot of buildings in New York City and across New York state. What can you tell me about your past personal relationship with Donald Trump?

PATAKI: It has always been fine. It's always been respectful. He has said good things about my time as governor, and I have always said good things about what he has done in New York, some of the buildings are among the best I have seen.

But when you enter the political arena, you have to be the leader for everyone, and dividing to gain some sort of benefit is just not right. And I personally am proud that as a Republican I carried a plurality of Puerto Rican and Dominican vote when I was running for re-election as a Republican in New York.

And the Republican Party has a tremendous opportunity because we're the party that wants to be pro jobs, pro growth, pro higher wages for the middle class, lower taxes, a stronger defense. But we're not going to win Latino votes unless we stand up and be counted when it's a divisive anti-Hispanic comment like this made.

HARLOW: Let me read you a quote from one of your competitors there on the GOP. Texas Senator Ted Cruz saying on Tuesday morning on Fox News, quote, "I like Donald Trump. I think he's terrific. I think he's brash. I think he speaks the truth."

PATAKI: It's just very disappointing to me because, you know, my poor grandparents were immigrants. My grandmother came from Ireland and the Irish were too often stereotyped as having fights all the time or drinking too much. My grandfather came from Italy. They were too often stereotyped as mobsters or criminals, and now we have leading political candidates willing to classify Mexican-Americans as criminals or thugs or rapists.

This is just wrong. It doesn't belong in the 20th -- it does not belong in the 21st century. And I just urge all of my fellow candidates for the Republican nomination to have the courage to stand up and say that these comments are wrong. they're not good for America. They don't represent the values of the Republican Party or the United States. And stop hiding in the weeds.

HARLOW: Very quickly before I let you go, sir, does this hurt the Party?

PATAKI: I don't think so. I think people understand it's an individual making these comments, and I would hope that the Republican Party will nominate someone who tries to bring people together and bring opportunity and a better future for all Americans.

You know, I know that the vast majority of Mexican-Americans who are here have come to try to build a better life for their families and live the American dream just as my grandparents did. So let's just stand up against this type of bigotry and denounce it.

HARLOW: Former New York governor George Pataki now making a bid for the White House. Sir, I appreciate you joining me. Thank you.

Still to come here in the NEWSROOM, New York says it is deploying its most complex anti-terrorism operation yet, all to keep Americans safe on the Fourth of July. The details on that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:53:10] HARLOW: All right. Two days away from the Fourth of July holiday, New York City not taking any chances as fears grow that there could potentially be a terrorist strike on Independence Day. Again, no immediate threat identified, but they are stepping up security. The FBI, the Department of Homeland Security, National Counterterrorism Units saying that the threat level is much higher this Independence Day than last, largely because of ISIS and its use of social media to attract willing followers to potentially carry out an attack.

New York deploying highly trained Hercules police teams, radiation detection units, bomb sniffing dogs for the Fourth of July. 7,000 closed circuit cameras will monitor the streets. Former CIA counterterrorism analyst Aki Peritz joins me now.

Thank you for being with me, sir.

Look, some are saying that this stepped up cautionary move is not because of a specific threat but because of the way the threat has evolved having credible intelligence before a terrorist attack, especially with these one-offs of smaller attacks is becoming increasingly difficult. Is that what ISIS has done?

AKI PERITZ, FORMER CIA COUNTERTERROSIM ANALYST: It's one of the things that ISIS is trying to do. Terrorism here in the United States is an enduring challenge, and law enforcement intelligence communities are rightfully concerned that something might happen when you have a lot of people congregating in a very small area. And this is the kind of space that a terrorist organization like ISIS or al Qaeda really wants to attack.

Remember that in the United States, we have tens of thousands of potential soft targets whether it's malls or parades or the beach or schools or hospitals and so forth. And yet very, very little has ever actually happened in these cases. So it's about understanding what really is the threat and what can we as regular Americans do about it. And right now as long as the federal government has not actually given a specific credible threat to a specific place --

HARLOW: Right.

PERITZ: -- there's actually nothing that we can really do.

[10:55:04] HARLOW: What is the biggest threat right now do you believe? Is it these one-off attacks like we saw them try to carry out in Garland, Texas?

PERITZ: That is certainly a type of attack that law enforcement is rightfully concerned about. Unfortunately, in this country we have a lot of lunatics who have easy access to firearms and explosives and this is something that your local police are very, very concerned. And that's why you see in places like New York City in Los Angeles and other places you see an increased police presence.

But for regular Americans we can't allow this fear of potentially being attacked by terrorists mar our Independence Day. And if we allow -- if Americans allow that to sort of keep people away from things, then they've really sort of won against us.

HARLOW: Yes, exactly what I was going to say. Aki Peritz -- thank you very much. Appreciate the expertise. We'll be right back.

PERITZ: Thank you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:00:04] HARLOW: All right. We're still waiting for this press conference to happen in Washington, D.C., about exactly what transpired at the Navy Yard -- the warning called in this morning.

Thanks so much for being with me today. I'm Poppy Harlow.

"AT THIS HOUR" with Berman and Bolduan starts right now.