Return to Transcripts main page

Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Donald Trump Losing Various Business Partnerships After Controversial Comments; He-Said, She-Said In New York Prison Escape Story; Clinton Correctional Facility Faces Major Changes After Prison Break; 10 Shark Attacks Off Carolina Coasts. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired July 02, 2015 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[12:30:44] DONALD TRUMP, GOP PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Macy's was unable to handle pressure, they folded like dog -- folded under pressure, that's the problem with our country, every body folds under pressure instead of doing right thing, they just immediately they have to peace people go outside with the sign and you see two pickets and they immediately say, "Oh, Gee we have to do this is pressure, pressure." People can't handle pressure.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN HOST: That's very strange, because he said it right there, its own words that Macy's folded, but then later he said he quit Macy's. I don't get this.

Donald Trump last night on CNN commenting on having his clothing line dumped by Macy's, but it's not just Macy's cutting ties with Donald Trump, the man of retailer followed NBC's decision to drop him. And now Serta mattresses is the latest, and that's a big brand.

I want to bring in Criminal Defense Attorney Midwin Charles and Branding and Social Media Consultant Peter Shankman.

OK, so first to you Peter, I mentioned to Nischelle Turner who is on just before you that there have been all these episodes that people who've done something or said something wrong publicly and they are finished, (inaudible) style that sort of thing.

And yet may be their infractions weren't as bombastic or huge as what is seemingly this comment that Mexican Immigrants are mostly rapist and criminals and drug dealers.

PETER SHANKMAN, BRANDING AND SOCIAL MEDIA CONSULTANT: What's nice about Trump for people like us, is that anytime he does something you know it's just a tip of the ice burg because he doesn't have a filter that says, you know, what may be I should stop talking now.

Right now he lost Macy's, his lost the clothing line which by the way it's made in Mexico FYI, his signature clothing line.

His lost of these things and that's starting to hurt. But New York that Dam Tang and that's a city where most of...

BANFIELD: I'm not sure we can say that because certainly, verbally not happy with them, but they're reviewing all of their contract.

SHANKMAN: The second he starts losing his name on the buildings.

BANFIELD: Right.

SHANKMAN: Then he has a problem, be and that's coming, because that's where his money is, his money is licensing his name, to these buildings, to these job forces.

I mean who wants to associate with a racist, who wants to go into racist tower. From a brand perspective this is dangerous.

BANFIELD: And there is this sort of momentum that sometime build as well, we may be...

SHANKMAN: Well that's the thing, it's snow balling in, I mean it started with one, now it's in five who know what's next.

BANFIELD: So Midwin talk to me a little bit about the city of New York. I mean there's a couple of legal issues that are, you know, coupled with Donald Trump that has an understatement.

But in particular to this story the city is reviewing it's contract and he's also sued Univision for it's contracts for jumping the pageant.

MIDWIN CHARLES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: And so he might sue NBC as well?

BANFIELD: And might sue NBC as well, but contractually speaking, if you are troublesome do you really need something as obvious a the morality claws in a contract or is there just that grey area of business and when someone is bad for business, you have the right to distance yourself.

CHARLES: Well I can assure you that, you know, anyone putting together a contract with another entity is always going to have some sort of claws, but protects them in terms of the actions of that or the person.

If they do something that jeopardizes their business and jeopardizes their image, then they have the right to terminate that contract it wouldn't surprise me if New York has acknowledge, it wouldn't surprise me if Macy's has acknowledge, NBC, Univision and all the other entities that are pulling away form Donald Trump.

It's the one way that a company can protect themselves protect their brand, and also protect future earnings. So it wouldn't surprise me if those claws is existed.

BANFIELD: I want to do a little parlor game here just because our CNN politics edition is the brilliant they called all this tweet that Donald Trump has present, presumably in a moment of anger after having read something, you know, something like this, there's a big cover that came out last week or I wish (ph) admitted two weeks ago after he made his big announcement and I'm sure that he probably saw that on his desk it was none to pleased and they've reprinted it several times on their front page

So whenever he gets lambasted or if, you know, challenged on any of his principles, he takes to the Twitter.

Let me just read a few of this to start with.

He went after The Washington Post's Chris Cillizza saying "One of the dumber and least respected of the political pundits is Chris Cillizza of The Washington Post @ TheFix. Moron hates my poll numbers."

Then to Karl Rove, "Karl Rove is a total loser. Money given to him might as well be thrown down the drain."

And then sort of to everyone on the occasion of 9/11, I'd like to extend my best wishes to all, even the haters and losers, on this special date, September 11th and it just goes on to Chuck Todd.

[12:35:03] CHARLES: And this is the guy who's running to be president of the United States.

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: And to that this may have been some media folks et cetera. But now you're talking about the Secretary Defense Chuck Hagel calling him an obviously a moron and then talking about a Columnist George Will a moron.

Does have a particularly broad lexicon it would seem. And then, you know, speaking about, you know, people Mark Cuban again but a respected business person like him Mark Cuban swings like a little girl with no power or talent. Share is an average talent who's out of touch with reality like Rosie O'Donnell a total loser.

This is what I don't understand. From a grand perspective how can you say things like a middle schooler and still have credibility to run as president.

SHANKMAN: You can't, the issue that he's having right now is that for the past five years, 10 years, 20 years he hasn't had a filter, he's never had a filter, he's never had a leash. If he wants to be president he has to answer a lot -- bunch of people who are much higher positions than he is. We're going to basically pull strings to make his decisions, right now they're looking at there's -- no way we're going to go after him.

So right now what he's doing, he's distracting and it's a joke it'll never happen because at some point they're going to say how come we possibly look his back history, how can we possibly have that when...

CHARLES: But also nothing that he said indicates that he would be a good and formidable leader. I mean if you want to be president of United States you have to demonstrate to everyone that you would lead, that you were someone that we can put...

BANFIELD: It's not just a business, it's a great deal of diplomacy.

SHANKMAN: You can't win with that. As a marketing guy, right, one thing he personally said that he hired me, get off Twitter you were no longer allowed to twit.

BANFIELD: Yeah.

SHANKMAN: Have someone do it for you.

CHARLES: ... as an attorney if he were my client I would just make shut up, shut up, shut up.

SHANKMAN: Well that too, I'm trying to be nice about but yeah, shut up works too.

BANFIELD: Peter and Midwin thank you, appreciate it. Thank you for coming.

In other news it's the he said she said the New York Prison escape story. So what the police do when he is the convicted murder and she is the woman who admitted to helping him escape.

How David Sweat and Joyce Mitchell stories are clashing, is he throwing her under the bus because after all think about, he is worry as right now because she didn't show to pick up him up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:40:29] BANFEILD: Some new and chilling details about the capture and killing of fugitive Richard Matt.

According to a statement from U.S. Customs and Border Protection, Matt was shot dead after he pointed a shotgun at the agents who were chasing him. Quote, an agent observed the individual fail to comply with the verbal commands and aim what was determined to be a 20-gauge shotgun at him. The agent discharged his service-issued M-4, striking the individual, who died at the scene. That from the U.S. Customs and Border patrol.

So there's also news about his fellow escapee as well. Recovering from bullet wounds in a hospital bed, former fugitive David Sweat is spilling all kinds of detail, who knows if their factual about his baffling escape from prison and life on the run with his coconspirator Richard Matt.

He says, Matt eventually became an albatross, too out of shape, and too willing to get drunk to keep up with him so they parted company. Then he goes on to say, it was Joyce Mitchell, the one woman who allegedly help them breakout who wanted to have her husband killed. Not those two, he said it was her idea, so that the three lovebirds could head to Mexico together. Oh but then, of course he did say, he wasn't one of her love birds.

And then there are more details that answer some key questions as well, Jean Casarez joining us from Dannemora, New York where changes are coming to the Clinton Correctional facility, including a brand new superintended. So some things that he had said, they're obviously listening with part of an ear because who knows what kind of a guy this is in terms of telling the truth given his back story. But what are they doing at this jail and how are they handling this guy?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the superintendent who is the warden the new one. And he's on the job immediately, his name Michael Kirckpatrick and he was the first deputy superintendent at Elmira Correctional facilities, about 5.5 hours away. Also at other maximum security prisons in the state including Sing Sing, but more than that, he is the head of the search unit which is the correctional emergency response team. He is the leader and those are the correctional officers that were out trying to find Richard Matt and David Sweat.

So he was right in the stake of it. And so many changes that he has now in charged of. You know, I called the Department of Corrections today and right now in that prison behind me, there are 2,600 inmates today, just about that number. And of the changes is during the night, they are going to have to continue to look at all of them to see living, breathing inmates throughout the night. Also, periodic searches of the cell and every week, searches of the integrity of the cell to make sure that nothing security wise is -- at all tampered with.

As far as that tunnel, because that's really how they got out Ashleigh. The tunnel, there's going to be big security gates that are put there you have to get into. And beyond that searches and observations of the tunnel and pictures taken so they can compare pictures to see if there are suddenly any new security risks to those tunnels Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Sounds like a good idea that might have been better placed before this happened. But can you tell me a little bit about David Sweat and has his cooling his heels in a hospital bed, how long he gets the fancy hospital bed before he heads back to some very uncomfortable incarceration?

CASAREZ: Well, he's still there. He's in fair condition. He will still be there for a number of days we understand. And as for the Department of Corrections that will determine when he leaves and obviously where he goes.

BANFEILD: And so far, we're not assuming anytime soon he's going to be going back to Clinton, that's for sure. Jean Casarez, keep us updated, thank you.

CASAREZ: Thank you.

BANFIELD: So the new superintendent at the Clinton Correctional facility is going to have to start pretty much from scratch it seems. But where do they even begin, where is scratch? Then I ask a man who used to be deputy warden himself, coming up next on legal view.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [12:48:40] BANFIELD: The Dannemora Corrections Facility is going to see some pretty major changes after the elaborate and embarrassing escape by those two escaped murderers.

My next guest is a man who knows firsthand what it's like to operate a prison because Edward Gavin is the former Deputy Warden of the New York City Department of Correction.

So I want you ask you about the significance of this big change in leadership. Is it really necessary that the leadership ultimately is responsible for these two jokers doing what they've done?

EDWARD GAVIN, DEP. WARDEN, NYC DEPT. OF CORRECTION: Well, its yes and no. It's good to get a set of fresh eyes on the situation. And what we want to see is we want to see roll call training, we want to see the superintendents and the senior staffs attend all the roll calls, all three tours...

BANFIELD: But the old superintendent could have done it, the old execs could have done it. I'm just wondering if this is window dressing or if this truly makes a difference. You bring in a new guy and all of a sudden the hammer comes down on everybody? GAVIN: Well, you know, given what happened, we have to have a fresh

set of eyes on this situation and that's definitely very important one.

BANFIELD: We were just talking after in the commercial break about a couple of immediate things that you could, tangible changes, that you could see if you implement them at Clinton, it can make a big different?

GAVIN: Yeah, the first thing I do right now is I would bring in the New York State Police with the K9 sniffing dogs.

BANFIELD: OK, I just assume that K9 sniffing dogs would have been at every prison given the ransom problem with drug abuse in prison.

GAVIN: Well, I don't know but I think you need to have an outside agency come in and I mean, I think there need to be an employee locker rooms and the visit rooms where the visitors and the inmates meet the, wall library, the clinics, places like that ...

BANFIELD: And their cell

GAVIN: And the -- yeah, right the cells, classrooms ...

BANFIELD: Pretty simple.

GAVIN: Absolutely.

[12:49:59] BANFIELD: All right. So that's the drug issue. But what about the correction issue, the notion that, you know, a couple of employees might have actually facilitated this potentially deadly, well it ended up being deadly for Mr. Matt. But there are cameras all throughout prisons and jails, but the people who can watch the signal aren't necessarily the people you think should be the only ones watching it?

GAVIN: Well, I don't know that there's cameras throughout the jail. I don't know that there was a camera in the -- seams -- in the shop where Joyce, the seamstress...

BANFIELD: Yeah.

GAVIN: ... is working. I don't know that they had a camera in there. And I think what they should do -- the State Department of Correction should do is get an RFP from a reputable company and they need to install cameras in the front gate, the contact visit room, the store house, all the prison industry shops, classrooms, law library, chapels, medical clinics.

BANFIELD: And I get it because there are some places and many people who, you know, who are guest at Clinton has said that there are plenty of blind spots and in any jail story you often hear about the blind spots that are, you know, that the prisoners use for their benefit.

But what about having a different level of monitoring? So it's not just guards who could potentially become part of the problem, it's the executive level that watches those monitors as well.

GAVIN: Right. And that's why I think we should have, you know, the remote camera access installed as a pilot project in all the areas. Let's start with Clinton, this way the assistant commissioner, the inspector general and the state inspector general could look at the operation and then they can see it in real time, and they can make changes as things move forward.

But I think a particular -- significance given all these upheaval, I think that female correction officers have to be hypervigilant now because now the inmates are going to be, you know, they're going to be tightly round up, they're going to be searched, they're going to be on...

BANFIELD: Do you think there should be segregation that female correction officers should only work in female housing?

GAVIN: No, I don't. No, they don't.

BANFIELD: Or you don't see that...

GAVIN: No, no.

BANFIELD: ... as the problem?

GAVIN: No. But they have to be hypervigilant and because a lot of times these female officers are the objects of the inmate sexual desires. And, I mean let's not forget the 1981 murder of Correction Officer Donna Payant in Green Haven. She was the first correction officer in New York State killed in the line of duty, and she was killed by, I believe the gentleman, not the gentleman, the inmate, the rapist was Lemuel Smith. He was a murderer. And apparently...

BANFIELD: And maybe some additional, you know, training courses and regular, training. Well, Ed Gavin, it's fascinating. I'm always fascinated by the culture, the changes, how lax it can become and how cyclical some of the regulations can become. So, thanks for coming in.

GAVIN: Pleasure.

BANFIELD: Appreciate it.

GAVIN: Thank you.

BANFIELD: Nice to talk to you.

GAVIN: Bye-bye.

BANFIELD: The year is only half over in North and South Carolina and there have already been 10 shark attacks. That is a whole lot more than last year. So, what is going on?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:56:22] BANFIELD: When one shark attacks, it seems everyone takes notice. And when 10 people are attacked, people get scared.

So far this year, 10 people have been bitten off the coast of North and South Carolina. That's higher than the average of six per year for the two states. The latest attack happening yesterday in North Carolina where a man in his late 60s was beaten on his torso, leg, and hands.

CNN's Alina Machado is in Wrightsville Beach, North Carolina. So let's just start with the most recent victim. I'm always astounded to hear that he was in waist deep water and could not see it coming, did not see it coming. Thank God he survived, but how is he?

ALINA MACHADO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: With last check Ashleigh, he was covering at the hospital. He's a 67-year-old man. He's from Massachusetts and he was in North Carolina vacationing with his family when the attack happened.

You know, authorities tell me that when the first responders got to him, he was alert, he was talking to them. He seemed to be in pretty good spirits considering what had just happened to him. He did suffer severe puncture wounds in an area between his thigh and his knee, and he also had bites to his cap.

Now, this attack which happened in the outer banks which is north of where we are is the seventh to happen off the North Carolina coast this year. The victims of the other attacks include a 13-year-old girl and a 16-year-old boy, each of them loss an arm in separate incidences some 90 minutes apart in an area that's south of here on June 14th, bites have also been reported in South Carolina and also in Florida, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: So, Alina, I see you on the beach, and behind you there's all sorts of people enjoying this lovely weather. I'm not trying -- I'm squinting to try to see if they're actually in the water. I don't see anybody.

But what is the mood among those who are vacationing, are they scared? Are they staying out of the water? Has this affected them?

MACHADO: You know, there's not much talk here about being fearful. There's more of a heightened awareness among beach goers that, you know what, let me remind you that there are sharks in the water. That's what this attack has done to these people. It's kind of reminded them that there -- there, I want to show you, there are people, Ashleigh, in the water. You could see them over there. We've been seeing it all day. People are out here enjoying this 4th of July weekend getting an early start to their holiday weekend.

And from what we can gather just from talking to people here, they're not going to stay out of the water this weekend.

BANFIELD: And then just quickly, have you seen anything in the skies like spotter planes or drones or anything like that? Because there was some talk after that double attack just a week or so ago that that might actually happen?

MACHADO: We haven't seen any of that. You know, the incidents happened -- they seemed to be isolated incidents that happened along the coast in different locations over the span of several weeks. So if not, there is an area in particular that authorities are focusing on. There is no talk of beach closures as far as I'm concerned, and you could see it just from behind me, people are out here and they planned to be out here all weekend.

BANFIELD: Well, and it is going to be a busy, busy weekend for which is why I'm always astounded again. The waist deep water, it's just so chilling. Alina Machado live for us. Thank you for that on Wrightville Beach in North Carolina.

Again, the July 4th long weekend coming up. Those beaches are going to be packed. We'll continue to follow that story and my colleague Wolf Blitzer is going to take you on the odyssey of everything else CNN is covering, starts right now.

[13:00:01]