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Pope Francis arrives in Quito, Ecuador; Secretary of state John Kerry speaking about those negotiations with Iran today; What would Bernie Sanders do if he was elected president?; Juan Francisco Lopez Sanchez is accused of murder in the case of Kate Steinle; GOP nominees criticizing Trump's controversial remarks about some Mexican immigrants; 5-6p ET

Aired July 05, 2015 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[17:00:00] POPPY HARLOW, CNN HOST: From Ecuador, he'll go to Bolivia and Paraguay showcasing his concern for the poorest citizens. His message to them, you have not been forgotten.

Let's go straight to our Rosa Flores. She is traveling with the Pope. She is alongside the crowds in Quito, Ecuador. Also with me here in New York is Dr. Candida Moss. She is a professor of theology at Notre Dame. Thank you both for being here.

Rosa, let me begin with you. Just set the scene for us. This is certainly a historic trip.

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It definitely is. Pope Francis, the first Latin American pope coming to Latin America, Poppy. And this visit, all three countries are Spanish speaking countries. His native tongue. So there's a loft excitement about him communicating freely. Because hear this. He's going to be adlibbing for the 22-plus speeches that he's going to be giving in these countries.

But let me set is scene for you. Where we are is by the diplomatic mission of the holy sea. That's where the Pope will spend the night. Now, you can see that the crowds behind me have been gathering. And now, it's probably about 15 people deep and we've been seeing these crowds practice, Poppy, doing some chants, they are raising their arms.

Now, you see a lot of fluorescent vests. Now, that's the national police, part of the official detail for the pope in this country. And a lot of these faithfuls coming from the peripheries which is important, Poppy, because the papal theology of this pope is to evangelize from the peripheries, to go into the outskirts, to go to the poor, to be one to one with the poor. And so, that's where some of these folks are from. Others are planning to go to the open air mass, where hear this, more than a million people are expected to attend.

And if you just look at what some of the items on his itinerary are, Poppy, you really notice that this pope is all about the sick, the poor, the elderly and the remarks that he made just moments ago, he mentioned that. He said let's not forget the youth. Let's not forget the elderly. The youth is the future. The elderly is our past and our history, which we should not forget -- Poppy.

HARLOW: Rosa, I know, I mean, this is someone as you said that focuses on those on the margins. You spent time with them reporting ahead of the Pope coming there. What did some of the people most in need tell you they want to hear?

FLORES: You know, there's a lot of emotion, Poppy. At the margins in these humble neighborhoods with the dirt roads and people making about $300 a month and struggling to make ends meet. I spoke to one woman who said that she's hoping to get a blessing that the poor here in these countries are expecting a blessing from the pope. And you know, they say this is not going to solve our every problem, but it's definitely going to fill our hearts with hope.

The youth saying the same thing, that there's much excitement because they say this is the first Latin American Pope. He speaks Spanish. He knows people in these countries. He knows our culture. And that's very, very important to these people. At the margins hoping to get a blessing from Pope Francis here.

HARLOW: Absolutely. Thank you so much for the reporting live in Quito, Ecuador. We will keep an eye on this.

You're looking at just moments ago when the Pope landed and greeted some of the crowds. He did make a speech as Rosa mentioned on the tarmac there at the airport.

Let's talk more about this with Dr. Candida Moss. She joins me now, theologist from Notre Dame. Let's talk his choice of these three countries - Ecuador, Bolivia, Paraguay. He's not going to Brazil. He is not going to his native Argentina. This is very, very tells us a lot, actually.

PROF. CANDIDA MOSS, UNIVERSITY OF NOTRE DAME: Yes, it does. He selected three countries that are not geopolitical major players. These are small countries that are overlooked. Two of them are the poorest on the continent, so he's picked poor countries where a high percentage of the population is catholic and he's picked countries that really showcase is poverty that he's been talking about since he first became pope.

He's sort of saying to the world, this is the poverty I've seen. This is the kind of poverty I've been talking about and I want to have shine a spotlight on that and show to the world exactly what's happening there.

HARLOW: It's interesting when you look at the numbers, about 40 percent of the world's Catholics live in Latin America. At the same time, we've seen quite a decline of those joining the catholic faith in that region from somewhere in the 90 percentile range and the 70s falling about 20 percentage points into the 2,000s, so how does he galvanize the people to join?

MOSS: Right. That's exactly right. We think of Latin America is so catholic, but in fact, the Catholic Church has been hemorrhages members to protestant churches and to secularism. A lot of people no longer believe in God and so disaffected by the catholic hierarchy in those countries.

I think merely by going there, by meeting with people from all areas of life, not just the president, some of bishops, but the young, the elderly, the poor, he's going to prisons, he is going to slums, that says a lot.

[17:05:27] HARLOW: He also, this comes off on the heels of the encyclical, a big word for his long, long paper, if you will, about the environment and about, you know, as he talked about, manmade global warming and how serious of a risk that poses to the planet. What can we expect to hear from him on that front?

MOSS: Well, I think we're going to be hearing a lot about the importance of the environment. The Vatican has already said that that's high on the agenda here. He's also going to be visiting slums that are particularly prone to flooding. And he's really that visually showing to the world, the connection between poverty and the environment and how the environment and environmentalism issues impact the poor the most.

HARLOW: I do want show you, guys, are these the live pictures? We're working on these live pictures you're seeing of the motorcade, but also moments ago, people were running, running towards the car that we know he's going to be in, so the Popemobile, if you will, for an eight kilometer stretch with a lot of people around him.

When you talk about the legacy of this Pope, of course, its early going, but what does this tell us about the legacy he is build something.

MOSS: Yes, I think what Francis is trying to do is to get people engaged again. He talks a lot about throw away culture, by which he means the environment, he means the poor, the elderly, people in prisons, unborn children and just the sick. People that aren't useful to society, but that are human beings who need to be looked after. And I think that's what he's really trying to showcase here in Latin America. And that is the way he wants to frame the Catholic Church's interest moving forward.

HARLOW: When you look at another reason why he's not going to Argentina, part of it is political, right? You got big elections and he sort of got drawn into the political fray on a trip to South Korea.

MOSS: That's exactly right. When he was in South Korea, people saw that visit as him endorsing the current political regime and with elections upcoming in Argentina in October, he just wanted to stay away from that.

That said, he's not going to avoid Argentinians. Probably a million of them will cross the border to see him in open air masses and speeches. And also, there's going to be a lot of political debate in Ecuador where he just landed.

HARLOW: What about those who may not agree. He is by such an outspoken Pope, right, and has certainly said things that many have loved and embraced and others have shied away from and said, you know, this may seem a bit too outside of the norm for us what we expect from our Pope. Do you think he's face criticism on this for some of the stances he's taken?

MOSS: Well, it's going to be interesting. He'll be speaking Spanish. And when he speaks Spanish, he's more likely to say something off the cuff that people will criticize him for. He's already facing criticism for the encyclical. But I think the purpose of this trip before he comes here to the U.S. in the fall, is to say let me show you what I'm talking about. When I say we all have to engage poverty, I don't mean mild poverty. I mean people in slums. I mean, people impacted by flooding. And so, that's the purpose of this trip. He'll come into some criticism, but I think he's trying to create a visual image here. This is poverty. Let me show you what it looks like.

HARLOW: Right. Unlike what people in this country have to deal with, showing extreme, extreme.

Thank you so much for the expertise. We appreciate it.

We will keep watching again, the kicking off of an eight-day tour here throughout Latin America.

Turning now to the Iran nuclear negotiations in Vienna. Secretary of state John Kerry speaking about those negotiations with Iran today. He did say progress has been made, but he also said there are still major points of contention.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KERRY, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: But I want to be absolutely clear with everybody. We are not yet where we need to be on several of the most difficult issues. And the truth is that while I completely agree with the foreign minister Sarif that we have never been closer, at this point, this negotiation could go either way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Foreign ministers involved this those talks arriving tonight in hopes of finalizing a deal.

Next, we go to Greece where Greek voters cast ballots in a historic referendum today. That one that will have a domino effect across Europe and could impact the global economy. Our Richard Quest live in Athens, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:13:02] HARLOW: More than half the votes have been tallied in Greece in a historic referendum that could have led to another bailout for that country's sinking economy. Right now though, all signs pointing to no deal and that could mean the Greece's days in the Euro zone are numbered.

Moments ago, Greece's Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras said democracy won today and the country can move forward if it has a united front. However, Greece's opposition leader now resigning in the wake of this no vote saying in a statement that now it's time for the government to make good on all the promises it has made to its people.

At last check, just over 60 percent of the votes there in Greece have voted to not take the bailout deal that comes with stringent austerity measures after the prime minister there vowed to get a better deal in his negotiations with European leaders.

Greece's finance minister says that over the last five months of negotiations, it was clear that Greece's creditors quote "refused every substantive conversation." Now, the question becomes can Greece even remain part of the Euro zone?

Just about an hour ago, the German vice chancellor said that Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras has quote "demolished the last bridges on which Europe and Greece could have moved towards a compromise."

CNN's Isa Soares live in Athens tonight.

Isa, where does Greece go from here?

ISA SOARES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A very tough one, Poppy. You and I have been talking all this week about this very question, about the referendum. And we knew it was going to be tight, but we look at the difference in terms of 61 percent of the vote to know 38.52 percent voted yes and this is where it's shocking to many people who expect it to be much tighter.

But what this is the victory without a doubt to Alexis Tsipras, Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras who has been calling on its people to vote no all along. But now, this leaves Greece in a very tight situation, very tough situation. And really is the ball is in Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras court because he now has to go to Europe and try to reach some sort of negotiation with Europe, with Chancellor Merkel, Francois Hollande in the coming days before the taps run dry on the (INAUDIBLE), Poppy.

[17:15:16] HARLOW: But I mean, EU leaders there, you know, in Germany and elsewhere, have said that no vote is not give Greece more leverage, that will it not mean that they'll get a better offer, if you will. And when you look at Greece, they already defaulted on that loan. They were meant to pay the IMF back last week. Now, on July 20th, they have to pay the European central bank $3.5 billion. How is this a win for the Greek people?

SOARES: Yes. Well, it's a different interpretation and he aligns the problem right from the beginning. You know, the Greek people have interpreted a complete different way the Europe has been interpreting. What Europe has been saying, it's a vote between being in Europe or out of it. What the Greek are saying is whether we want more austerity or less austerity. So, Prime Minister Tsipras is going into these meetings, hoping that he can show European leaders, European parliament, to really show them that perhaps the Greek people happy to stay in Europe, perhaps with some austerity measures, but they have to give way some shape or form, perhaps in reducing the debt, which is one of the points that the IMF made this week, Poppy.

HARLOW: What does this mean, bigger picture? More broadly for Europe, for global market, as people wake up Monday morning?

SOARES: Look, we never expected the no vote to be this high to be completely honest. And I think the Greeks here tomorrow, will there be money in the cash machines tomorrow, Poppy? We knew the money was dwindling. We knew there was two days ago, 1.5 billion Euros. That is not enough to keep going at 60 Euros per person, so that is one concern.

Will the ECB, the European Central Bank is meeting tomorrow, will they open the taps once more? I suppose that decides how the Greeks approach the whole deal. In terms of European markets, they'll be worried. They will be shocked without a doubt because there are still concerns whether Europe will give into Greece or whether Greece in many ways is prepared to make sacrifices this that many other countries in Europe have made. I'm talking about Spain, I'm talking about Portugal, island. They have all had to swallow the pill and now, many are saying well, Greece just hat to do the same.

HARLOW: Yes. And ultimately, what does this mean for the European project as a whole. Can Greece remain within the Euro zone now, we shall see.

SOARES: Absolutely.

HARLOW: Isa Soares live for us in Athens. Thank you for that.

Coming up next back in this country, we're talking politics. What would Bernie Sanders do if he was elected president? We know one thing he said to our Jake Tapper today he would raise taxes for the wealthy and for corporations. He is rising in the polls, so what does it mean for Hillary Clinton? Next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:21:29] HARLOW: All right, some people predict that senator Bernie Sanders will be a footnote to Hillary Clinton's march to the democratic nomination and of course, it is still early. But I want you to look at these polls. They are getting a lot of attention because since February, you'll notice something. A slow, but steady rise for Sanders mirrored by a decline for the Clinton. And notable jump for Sanders since May. He has built a reputation for speaking his mind on issues at some other candidates will not touch. On today's "STATE OF THE UNION" with Jake Tapper, he said it is time to raise taxes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have to raise individual tax rates substantially higher than they are today because almost all of the new income is going to the top one percent. And yes, those folks and large corporations will have to pay under a Sanders administration more in taxes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Ben Ferguson, host of the "BEN FERGUSON SHOW," who just loves hearing higher taxes and Marc Lamont Hill, a CNN contributor and professor at Morehouse College with me to debate it.

Marc, let me begin with you. Let's look big picture at sort of the rise of Bernie Sanders. What does this tell us?

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It tells us that Americans are looking for economic populism, they are looking for an answer to big, corporate greed, they are looking for a candidate that actually cares about everyday people and they're not finding it in Hillary Clinton.

Doesn't mean that there's really going to be a Sanders administration, I think that's absurd, but it means he has a shot at really chipping away Hillary's votes. And most importantly, it means that Joe Biden now has a legitimate entry point into this primary election. Joe Biden was standing on the sidelines, but now, he is saying wait a minute, people aren't sold on Hillary. Maybe it's uncle Joe's turn.

HARLOW: Ben, you know, you do have a vocal activist left wing within the party. Hillary Clinton, if she can't energize that, is Sanders going to be the one to do it? Sort of akin to what we saw Elizabeth Warren doing earlier on.

BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, no. This is look Bernie Sanders is the Donald Trump of the democratic primary and when there aren't being --

HILL: Come on.

FERGUSON: Early on - well, hear me out. If you're not being bold and big and Hillary Clinton's not making any major statements. I mean, look at how she treated the press yesterday by roping them off like they're some sort of cattle, not answering questions.

You know, you look at this and Bernie Sanders is saying I'm here, I'm available. I'm willing to talk to you. He is filling that void on the democratic side and it's obvious that I think even on both sides, the people want someone that's going to be big and bold.

Forget policy for a second. You have Hillary, who's just not talking. She's just not doing much. She's acting like she's bigger than the campaign itself. And this is where you have a common average guy that's will be to go anywhere, talk to anybody and yes, he's talking policy, but ultimately, viewers are saying, you know what, I don't like Hillary Clinton getting an automatic pass to halfway to the White House.

HARLOW: Marc, I have to let -- Marc's dying to jump in here. As you have your response, I want to show our viewers some of the video you're talking about there, Ben, of some of the press being cordoned off yesterday. Hillary's camp saying look, this was because the people that aren't press couldn't see her and that's why he did this.

FERGUSON: Yes, OK.

HARLOW: Marc, go ahead. HILL: Look. There's plenty of reason to criticize Hillary Clinton.

I'm never been reluctant to criticize Hillary Clinton. And surely, I'm expecting her to talk to the press sooner rather than later. Again, I always have a problem with this pundit class of people though who are so upset that Hillary Clinton has the audacity to talk to every day citizens and not other journalists.

She needs to answer some questions. She needs to come on the morning show. I'd love to see her with Jake Tapper next Sunday. I'd love to see all of that. But before that happens, I need her to explain her actual economic plan to the people.

What Bernie Sanders does is offer a vision for economic growth and progress for this nation. What I object to, Ben, is this idea somehow that he is the Donald Trump of the left.

Donald Trump, as we all know, is a side show. Bernie Sanders is a sitting senator with an economic vision, a plan of constituency and he's polling well. No one on the right is considering Donald Trump a legitimate candidate. Donald Trump is polling well, but no one is considering him a legitimate candidate including his peers.

[17:25:31] FERGUSON: Do you honestly believe that Bernie Sanders with his policies, as close as they are to socialism is a legitimate candidate on the Democratic side because if he is, I love this from a Republican perspective, but I don't think he is.

HARLOW: Let me ask you, guys. Marc you can respond to that, but consider this. Jake Tapper this morning at Bernie Sanders an interesting question and that is, why is no member of Congress right now formally endorsing you?

HILL: Well, again, I mean, I think first of all, Bernie Sanders is running from the fringe and that's a legitimate concern. And Hillary Clinton is the candidate that everybody seems to think is the inevitable candidate, so in one is really trying to go outside of that. No one wants to take off the Clintons if she's the inevitable candidate.

But what you are seeing around the country is local labor leaders are saying hey, we like Bernie Sanders even if our so-called bosses have already sort of sold out or given into the Clinton thing. As far as Bernie Sanders policies being socialist, I would question, Ben, if he understands completely what the democratic socialism is. I'm not sure any particular policy --

FERGUSON: I think Bernie Sanders has explained it pretty well. I'm not saying he's being vague here. But if you look at Bernie Sanders and the reason why no one on the Democratic side is endorsing him, it's not because they're all behind Clinton, because in the past, there were plenty of Democrats to go around endorsing multiple people including Barack Obama against Hillary Clinton. They're not touching him because he is pushing socialist ideas in this country.

HILL: Name one. Name one socialist idea he's pushing. FERGUSON: Let just go from take from anyone that's ever built

anything and give it to people that have not built things. Not just the rich.

HILL: What are you talking about?

HARLOW: Guys, guys, I don't think --

HILL: Taxes and socialism.

HARLOW: I don't think those are exactly his words, Ben, but I'll let people go to CNN.com and watch Jake Tapper's interview with him this morning to get the exact words. Stay with me.

Coming up next, we're going to debate with Ben and Marc, the GOP's reaction on some of their non-reaction to Donald Trump's controversial comments. More on that straight after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:30:45] HARLOW: Here's an illegal immigrant, repeat convicted felon and has been deported back to Mexico five times and now, Juan Francisco Lopez Sanchez is accused of murder in the case of Kate Steinle. The bay area woman who was shot and killed while walking with her family on San Francisco's Pier 14 this week. Her death sparking a debate about how this repeat felon and someone who was deported five times was walking free with a gun.

CNN's Boris Sanchez is joining me now following the story.

It's tragic. It's unbelievable that this could happen.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. You can't really imagine what her family's going through right now. A senseless, random murder and though immigration officials wanted this man held on a previous arrest, they let him go. And many are wondering if this whole thing could have been avoided.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ (voice-over): Walking with his daughter, Kate, on a busy San Francisco pier Wednesday night, Jim Steinle heard a loud pop ring out.

JIM STEINLE, FATHER: This was evil. Evil personified.

SANCHEZ: Kate fell to the ground. Hit by a bullet. The shooter running off without saying a word.

SGT. MIKE ANDRAYCHAK, SAN FRANCISCO POLICE: There does not appear to be any connection between the victim and the suspect. At this point, it appears to be a random shooting incident.

SANCHEZ: The suspect, 45-year-old Juan Francisco Lopez Sanchez, an undocumented immigrant and repeat felon. According to immigration officials, Lopez Sanchez has been deported five times to Mexico. In March, he was released from federal prison after serving time for sneaking back into the U.S.

Federal law enforcement sources tell CNN it would have been six deportations, except authorities this San Francisco wanted him on a drug related warrant so U.S. immigration and customs enforcement turned him over to deputies. ICE officials say they requested an official detainer that would give them a heads up before he was released, but the sheriff's department deny the request. According to policy, question was denied before letting him go. The chief attorney telling CNN there was no legal cause to detain him. Lopez Sanchez now faces homicide charges.

STEINLE: It's not going to bring Kate back. Again, them, finding a guy and whatever at justice will work its way through the system, but our focus is on Kate.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Yes. And even if the system change, it doesn't bring their daughter back.

It seems, Boris, like there was some loophole here. What ICE wants to happen in terms of customs enforcement, local law enforcement is saying we can't do that?

SANCHEZ: San Francisco is a sanctuary city. Meaning that they hold undocumented immigrants on the basis of a request from ICE. There would need to be a warrant or something called the judiciary order of removal for him to be detained. Otherwise, he can be held for his legal status.

HARLOW: So, even if ICE says look, this guy, you know, we need you to hang on to him. He is a risk for x, y, and z reason, they're not going to legally be able to do that. So are they talking about changing the process, the law?

SANCHEZ: Potentially. Supervisor in San Francisco was reached out for comment in the case she denied any comment. She didn't want to speak on us.

HARLOW: We'll see what happens, but the family, obviously, demanding answers.

Thank you, Boris. Appreciate it.

Coming up next, Donald Trump, one of the top contenders really at the top of some of these national polls for the Republican presidential nomination. His tendency to shoot from the hip though could turn into a big problem, not just for the billionaire himself, but for his presidential rivals as well. We'll discuss with Marc and Ben, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:37:49] HARLOW: Donald Trump may have somewhat worn out his welcome as a Republican presidential hopefuls, at least for some within his own party, judging by the other GOP candidates who are now criticizing him publicly. Some of them, Rick Perry, George Pataki, Marco Rubio, even 2012 GOP nominee, Mitt Romney, criticizing Trump's controversial remarks about some Mexican immigrants. Now, it is Jeb Bush. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is a guy who was a Democrat for most of the last decade. I don't think he represents the Republican Party. And his views are way out of the mainstream of what Republicans think. No one suggests that we shouldn't control our borders. I mean, everybody has a belief that we should control our border, but to make these extraordinarily ugly kind of comments is not reflective of the Republican Party. Trump is wrong on this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: CNN's political commentators Ben Ferguson and Marc Lamont Hill back with me.

Ben, let me begin with you. One reason I think that we're hearing so much from his rivals now is that he's doing really well in some of these important polls. Running second in Iowa and New Hampshire. The two states with the first contests in this Republican primary.

Is Trump going to be more of a headache instead of sort of a side show that I think some have predicted? He kept saying, by the way, in his interviews look, my opponents take me seriously. They take me seriously when he was asked that. Frankly, a lot of voters are taking him seriously looking at these numbers.

FERGUSON: Yes. Look, we're way, way, way, far away from Election Day. It is one thing to enjoy the entertainment and to watch this reality show on tour. It's another thing when it comes down to it. Are you really going to push a button for Donald Trump to be in charge of nuclear weapon, foreign policy, American policy? And I think the answer's going to be no.

HARLOW: But how do you explain the polls?

FERGUSON: Well, again, I think he's filling a void early on and that is most other candidates right now are focused on shaking hands, raising money and not really putting themselves in a position where they could get themselves in trouble. This is early on in the campaign, whereas Donald Trump's out there every day throwing KO punches at anything or any candidate or anybody around him. He understands how to work the media. He understands how to be, you know, outlandish and that's why he, right now, is getting this media attention. And so, people like watching it.

Some of the things that he's saying people like that he's talking about issues. But he's also not articulate and these are very bold statements he's making. I think what you saw there from Jeb and other candidates now is they said, OK, you know what, at first, our strategy was to ignore him. Now, we're going to have to start attacking him. He's got a lot of dirty laundry. He has given more money to Democrats and Republicans. And I think you're seeing the candidates are all going to unite to get him out of this thing as quick as they possibly can.

[17:40:39] HARLOW: We do know he had donated to Hillary Clinton's campaign, before, obviously.

Marc, let me ask you this, though. I wonder if you think potentially, he could help his party with those comments on some immigrants by forcing them to speak more about immigration and how they're going to galvanize the Latino, the Hispanic vote. Could he help on that front? Because now, they've got to come out and talk about it and make their stance clear.

HILL: Absolutely. Typically, party primaries drag people in the other direction. Democratic primaries tend to drag people to the left. They try to out left each other. On the right, it is the opposite. And what happens in the general elections, you have to kind of make up for that ground that you lost.

In this case, however, Donald Trump has been so extreme that he is actually moving the right toward the center. So, you have Republicans who are taking far more humane and reasonable stances on immigration than they would if he were not in the election. Remember, 2012, they were trying to drag Romney to the right. Now, all of the sudden, people say wait a minute, we want secure borders, but we are not nuts like Trump. We want a better trade deal with China, but wait a minute, we have a different trade policy vision than Trump does, which he have one.

So I think actually, it could benefit them. But what Republicans have wisely done this week as opposed to two weeks ago when they were ignoring him, is they're now trying to isolate him. And I'm not convinced what we see in the polls is a result of voters of who they want to be president as much as this name recognition and frustration with the status quo. If the election were to start right now even in the most activist state like Iowa, I don't think Trump wins. I don't think Trump even ranks in the top three or four because I think ultimately --

FERGUSON: I think noise -- noise matters early on in the campaign. Look at the rise of Bernie Sanders, look at the rise of Donald Trump. They are the only two people out there that are really going --

HILL: They're not the same.

FERGUSON: No, but they're doing is they are both filling a void where you have other people that are playing it safe. Hillary Clinton's playing it very safe right now. So are all the other GOP candidates. They're playing it very safe. They're working on their grass roots campaign, whereas these two are out there saying I don't care, there are no rules that I'm going to run by. And I'm going to attack and people will cover it and that's what's happened.

HARLOW: Guys, I want you to take a listen to how Mike Huckabee responded this morning when Jake Tapper asked him about Trump's comments on immigrants. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MIKE HUCKABEE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Honestly, Donald Trump needs to help from Mike Huckabee to get publicity. He is doing a really good job at that. So I think what I've been doing is focusing on what my own views of immigration happen to be rather than weighing in on getting in this battle of are we with Trump or against Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Marc, is that going to fly with voters? Are they going to demand more of a denouncement of Trump's remarks?

HILL: I don't think so. I mean, again, if this were a general election and Trump is running independent, spoiler alert, that's probably what he's going to do, it would be a different conversation. But I don't think the Republican base is going to be demanding that Mike Huckabee or Rick Santorum or whomever, Chris Christie, they have to respond to Donald Trump because Donald Trump isn't the center piece.

If Hillary Clinton were doing this or if Jeb Bush were doing this, it would be a different sort of response because they are the sort of mainstream, main line candidate. I don't think people ultimately are going to take Trump seriously enough to demand that kind of response.

What they must do at some point is address when big things come up. When he says something that's blatantly racist, they have to respond. When he says something that's false, they have to respond. They can't completely ignore him, but they can make him the center of the show. If they do, they are going to not be going anywhere and Hillary Clinton's going to be gaining ground and Jeb Bush is going to be gaining ground and a whole bunch of Republican candidates are going to be left behind.

HARLOW: Ben, I wonder it - look, whether you are a believer in Trump of Bernie Sanders or neither or both, however, don't you think it tells us something important about what the people want and -- and perhaps more than ever, they're demanding something that they're not getting from sort of their mainstream politicians?

FERGUSON: I think if there's anything here to take away from this and this is what I said to a couple of campaigns I talked to this week. You've got to pay attention, not so much to what Donald Trump or Bernie Sanders is saying, but fact they are saying things in a blunt and bold way. And I think this is a take away.

That the candidates are the people are wanting someone that isn't so calculated, isn't so polished and maybe perfect or isn't you know, focus grouping everything they say. They want someone who's willing to come out and be a real person. And I think that is a void that if other candidates are willing to do that, and come out and just be real and honest and be an actual human being instead of being a robot, a political robot, the people on both sides, Republican and Democrat, are going to respond to it and I think that's a take away from both of these. Look at Sanders. The guy is not scripted. He goes out there and just has a conversation.

HILL: But he has an actual plan, Ben.

FERGUSON: No, no. You're missing my point. I'm talking about, he's not saying here's my point. Wait, wait. He's not coming out and saying it's a three point plan on foreign policy or five point plan on Iran. They're coming out having a conversation. I think most people in America want that real conversation instead of this calculated politician.

HILL: Right. I understand your point.

HARLOW: I'm getting a wrap.

HILL: I'm disagreeing with it.

HARLOW: I'm getting the wrap on that note. Guys, thank you. Have a great week, Ben and Marc, as always.

Coming up next, we return to Ecuador, the pope, Pope Francis, on an eight-day tour across Latin America. Millions and millions of people waiting to hear from him. We are live in Quito, Ecuador, next.

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[17:49:58] HARLOW: All right, to Ecuador now. You're looking at live pictures. There you have it. Pope Francis just getting into the Popemobile where he will travel eight kilometers to first stop on this Latin American tour in Quito, Ecuador.

Huge crowds turning out to greet him. He's going to be going to three countries there. He's going to go to Bolivia, Paraguay and Ecuador during this trip. He's taking his message to the margins, to the poorest people, people often forgotten. Those are the people that he focuses on. He'll stop at a notorious Bolivian prison and a riverside slum in Paraguay.

Our Rosa Flores, traveling with the Pope, she joins us now from Quito, Ecuador.

Rosa, set the scene.

FLORES: You know, Poppy, I want to point one thing out. If you look at those pictures of the Pope, you will not see the official Popemobile, which is a Mercedes-Benz, this is an outfitted 4x4 jeep. And I was just reading the details of the jeep. Just to give you a little color. It has red carpet inside, some LED lights specifically for the Pope. Maybe because he wants to go green as you saw in his encyclical. But here's what's going to happen. So he just went from a fiat into the Popemobile. And he is going to traveling about five miles from the position where we are seeing him to where we are here live.

Now, this part of downtown is where the diplomatic mission of the holy sea is. Now, that is where the pontiff will spend the night, where he will rest so that he can go to (INAUDIBLE) which is another city here in Ecuador, which is to the southwest of where we are right now. So let me get out of this picture so I can show you the crowds and

what we've been seeing all day long. Now, people have been arriving from every corner of this city. Poppy, we've been seeing them in droves. And you can see that there are probably thousands of people lining this street.

One thing that stands out, of course, are the fluorescent jackets. Now, those are national police officers official detail here in Ecuador. One other thing to note, we've also scene an Argentinean flag and people dressed in Argentinean gear. So people from Argentina, whether they live in Ecuador or they're here visiting, are definitely welcoming the Pope.

And again, take a look, poppy. There's lots of people here waiting for the first Latin American Pope, for the first Jesuit Pope and for the first Pope to take the name of St. Francis, who is an advocate for the poor, an advocate for those who are out in the margin, which we know is the papal theology of this 78-year-old Pope. And that is to go into the peripheries, to be one on one with the poor.

And you know, poppy, we were there yesterday in the outskirts of Quito where there is a lot of poor people, but faith is very strong. I talked to one woman who said she's just hoping for a blessing from this pontiff and she's hoping to see him in person. And we'll see. I know that a lot of people are hoping to do that today -- Poppy.

HARLOW: Rosa Flores enjoy it. What a historic trip to see firsthand. Rosa, thank you.

Let's talk more about this with Dr. Candida Moss. She is a theologian from Notre Dame. Thank you for being here.

Let's talk about the fact that he is going to deliver these 22 speeches on this trip all in his native Spanish.

MOSS: Yes. I mean, Francis has really been waiting for this opportunity to speak to his own people in his own language, in Spanish. This means we can expect a lot more off the cuff remarks, a lot more of authentic Francis. He's never afraid to speak his mind, but when he's speaking Spanish, he's comfortable. He says what he really means. And he's at home in a continent where his theology really resonates there. People love him.

HARLOW: How much also is this trip about sort of galvanizing more people to join or rejoin the catholic faith? Because although 40 percent of Latin America is catholic we've seen a pretty significant decline, people leaving the religion there.

MOSS: Certainly a lot of his visit is about drawing people back to the Catholic Church who have become disaffected. We can see divisions eradicated already just looking at these images of him arriving, there are no protests. Now, just a week ago there were people in Quito protesting the president and asking for his resignation. And they put that aside now, rather than show casing their discontent to Francis, they're united behind him and his presence there. HARLOW: All right. Candida, thank you very much. We will be

watching again. You are looking at live pictures of pope. He's just gotten into the Popemobile, if you will. And we'll continue to follow this on this historic eight-day tour of Latin America.

All right, switching gears here, very, very troubling news to tell you about that we will discuss next at the top of the hour, violent holiday weekend in Chicago. Several people killed, dozens wounded. We'll discuss next.

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(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Which paper do you want?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Golds may look like a typical family.

But look closely, 7-year-old Eden can't walk, talk or do most anything a girl her age should be doing. She has a progressive neurological deposit known as mucolipodosys (ph) type four. Thankfully, this is a relatively rare genetic disorder, but it is more common among (INAUDIBLE).

Eden's development stopped at 18 months. Doctors say she'll be blind by 12 and probably not live beyond early adulthood.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Every dream that we had for our daughter was just ended with one phone call.

GUPTA: The Golds thought they had been properly screened for genetic diseases before they got married. Their first child was born healthy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My doctor tested me for a total of eight diseases. And Randy's doctor tested him for two diseases. Neither one of our doctors tested us for ML4.

GUPTA: The couple didn't want other families to suffer. So they started an online education and screening program for genetic diseases that are common among (INAUDIBLE). At home screening test are mailed out and genetic councilor delivers the results over the phone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: JScreen mission is to provide them information on how to help the children of their own.

GUPTA: Just like the Golds who added another daughter to their family.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Eden is here for a purpose. She saves lives every day.

(END VIDEOTAPE)