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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Bill Cosby Admits To Obtaining Drugs To Have Sex With Women; Donald Trump Doubling Down on his Statement; Brad Steinle Talking about His Murdered Sister. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired July 6, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[20:00:09] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Hey, good evening. Thanks for joining us.
A lot to get to in the two hours tonight that we are on the air. Tonight for the very first time after so many allegations from so many women, we can report that Bill Cosby himself has admitted to obtaining drugs, drugs known for erasing memory for women he intended to have sex with. Our knowledge of that admission comes not from sources however reliable they may be but from Mr. Cosby himself from records of testimony he himself gave in a case he settled out of court which we have just now obtained.
Randi Kaye has been reading those documents. She joins us now with details.
Randi what have you learned?
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, what we are learning tonight is that Bill Cosby testified back in 2005 that he got Quaaludes with the intent of giving them to young women that he wanted to have sex with. Not only that, but he admitted giving the sedative to at least one woman and other people according to these court documents that we just got.
Now, here is what the court document say. Cosby is asked when you got the Quaaludes was it in your mind that you were going to use these Quaaludes for young women you wanted to have sex with? His response, Anderson, is this. Yes, period.
COOPER: Now, where exactly are the documents coming from?
KAYE: They come from testimony just unsealed, the AP, "the Associated Press," and pushed the court to release the documents even though the AP that says Cosby's lawyers fought it. The testimony of Cosby under oath, I want to point out. And it is related to a lawsuit filed by former Temple University employee, Andrea Constand. She want to police saying that Cosby had drugged and molested her back in 2004. The district attorney at the time did not bring charges. Years later, he explained that Andres Constand waited a year before going to authority and that hurt her case. Now, he wanted to go forward with it but because she waited so long he lost the ability to test her blood for those intoxicating agents and figure out if she had been drugged. But tonight, Anderson, we know from these court documents, the 77-
year-old comedian testified and admitted all those years ago that he gave that employee, Andrea Constand, three half pills of Benadryl.
But we can see from the testimony that we have been going her lawyers didn't buy that since he had also admitted in that testimony to wanting to use Quaaludes to getting women to have sex with him. The documents show on the night in question, Cosby offered her three blue pills, saying quote "I have three friend for you to make you relax."
Now, her lawyers argue in the court documents that Benadryl as Cosby claimed it was would not produce this almost immobilization effect. That's her lawyer say she experienced. And Cosby did settle that sexual abuse lawsuit, Anderson, for an undisclosed term back in 2006.
COOPER: So, I mean, as we noted a few seconds ago, this does fit into the narrative of other past allegations?
KAYE: Absolutely it does. And Cosby has been accused by more than two dozen women of sexual misconduct. Many alleged that he drugged and raped them in cases dating back more than four decades. And here is just a sampling of what some of the women have said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I never saw any drugs. But I would wake up completely confused, half dressed. And knowing that my body had been touched without my permission.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We went up to his bungalow afterwards. He made me a drink. And very shortly after that I just, I passed out. I woke up, or came to very groggily with him removing my underwear.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He had gone from helping me to groping me and kissing me and touching me and handling me, and you know, taking off my clothes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Has Cosby ever talked about these recent allegations?
KAYE: Sort of. Back in 2005, Anderson he told the "National Enquirer" this, I am not going to give into people who try to exploit me because of my celebrity status. Cosby has never been criminally charged. And for most accusations statute of limitations has actually run out, Anderson.
COOPER: All right, Randi, appreciate the update.
Joining us now is attorney and legal affairs commentator, Areva Martin, also addiction medicine specialist and host of HLN's "Dr. Drew on call," Drew Pinsky.
Areva, I mean, for you, is this proof Bill Cosby is guilty of at least some of what his many, many accusers have said he did to them? AREVA MARTIN, ATTORNEY: Absolutely, Anderson. He makes an admission
under oath. And I think it is really important to put the context here. He was being deposed because he was being sued civilly by someone who said that he gave her a drug and then he raped her. And under this, you know, under oath statement he makes an admission. Which is why when you look at his lawyer's argument about why the documents should not have come out, they are really laughable. They said that this would embarrass Bill Cosby. But the judge himself said why would he be embarrassed by giving his own account of what he did?
So I think this is vindication for more than two dozen women who have said something very similar has happened to them. And he can no longer continue to hide behind the denials the denials, the denials.
[20:05:03] COOPER: Dr. Drew, first of all, let's talk about medically. Quaaludes, what do they do to a person?
DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST, DREW ON CALL: Well, it is a very much like what these women have described. They cause, sudden and severe intoxication, they induces sleep, and it also causes what called the floppiness. That people aren't just sort of unable to propagate through the world. Their muscles become so severely limp that they almost can't lift their limbs up and come to their own defense. And if you notice some of the women describe that kind of thing, which is very consistent with Quaaludes.
COOPER: Does it make sense to you, Dr. Drew that, I mean, if somebody's motivation for giving somebody's Quaaludes, is it to incapacitate them in order to be able to sexually assault them without their permission or without even asking? Or is it some sort of interest where he wants to have sex with somebody who is incapacitated?
PINSKY: Right. There is such a thing, Anderson. There is actually a fetish of having sex with people who are asleep. You don't know if it is bad or if this is just to have your way with someone. Whatever it is, is the same phenomenon ultimately. And you mention also the fact in some of the tapes here, the women said they don't remember anything. Quaaludes can cause memory problems but especially when combine with alcohol. That's when many people report their really lose their ability to recall what happened.
COOPER: Areva, as you said, this deposition was for a civil suit. Could it not have been used against him in a criminal case?
MARTIN: That's what's puzzling. When we hear that Constand did go forward and filed a claim with the district attorney in Philadelphia, but they said there was not enough evidence because she waited a year. But we have this admission being made in this deposition testimony. So you have to wonder did that district attorney drop the ball. Did something go terribly wrong with the prosecution because you have an admission? What more would a prosecutor need to go forward with charging someone?
So I think this is a case that someone needs to go back and re- evaluate and figure out how come there weren't criminal charges brought against him since apparently the statute of limitations had not run in this case.
COOPER: Dr. Drew, I mean, when you add this to all of the accusations out there, and again, dozens and dozens, does it fall in line with the behavior of some sort of serial sexual assaulter?
PINSKY: I personally have never seen anything like this. But yes, if you remember there is all this footage of him talking about men being preoccupied with being able to find some magic pill that made women sort of aroused where they can't say no. It's weird that he brought that up a few times in a few of his interviews. I remember thinking when I saw those interviews, no, most men do not really preoccupy about that. So this is some sort of preoccupation.
And again, this is not a way of explaining or dismissing what he did, my understanding is he had a very traumatic childhood that is alluded to here and there. It might be interesting to know really what happened to him growing up. It may be some insight in to why he created what we are seeing in the present.
COOPER: But I mean, you know, let's just be frank here, a lot of people have traumatic childhoods and don't end up doing this kind of thing.
PINSKY: Absolutely. This is not dismissing. It is so hard to get your head around, how could this man do this? What is this all about? The average person or normal person cannot understand what this is. I can't understand what this is. So I need to understand what kind of circumstance might have set this up. I don't know. But it is something that I have never seen. And it's really something astonishing and awful.
COOPER: I want to bring in our senior and legal analyst, criminal defense attorney Mark O'Mara.
Mark, what do you make of this deposition?
MARK O'MARA, GEORGE ZIMMERMAN'S FORMER ATTORNEY: Well, it is amazing, you know. It happened ten years ago. And now, he sort of finally coming out, the truth is coming out after hit ongoing denials of past six, eight months. What Areva said a moment ago about, you know, reopening the criminal case, I'm not sure it is going to be that easy to do. And I have to believe that the prosecutor ten years ago did not have this information available to him or her because it was part of a confidential settlement. And I am sure part of it was that she would not cooperate or go forward with cooperating testimony with the prosecutor.
COOPER: So you can make that part of a confidential settlement between two people?
O'MARA: Well, you sort of can. You are not supposed to because you are not supposed to interfere with the proper administration of justice and convincing a victim of a crime not to testify might be argument of be obstruction of justice. But in confidential negotiations, this does happen where people, you buy silence. And I think that's what happened ten years ago.
COOPER: I want to talk about this more. We have to take a quick break. Stick around.
As always, quick reminder, set your DVR. You can watch "360" when you want.
Coming up next, another woman says Bill Cosby raped her.
Also, later tonight, Donald Trump adopting a woman's killing in San Francisco by undocumented immigrant, as a political cause, and he doubled down on what he has already said about illegal immigrants coming across the border.
[20:13:36] COOPER: The breaking news, and it is a bombshell, Bill Cosby now on record admitting to obtaining drugs for women he intended to have sex with. Quaaludes, a kind of 1970s pre-cursor to (INAUDIBLE). His testimony, part of court records, in a case that he settled with one of his accusers.
Joining us now is another accuser, Patti Masten. This a picture of her with Bill Cosby. Had encountered Mr. Cosby in 1979, when she was a manager at the Playboy Club in Chicago.
Patti, thank you very much for joining us.
PATTI MASTEN, SAYS BILL COSBY RAPED HER: You're welcome.
COOPER: Your reaction to hearing what Bill Cosby admitted under cross-examination?
MASTEN: Complete validation across the board from all of us, complete validation.
COOPER: To you, it tells the story of what happened to lots of women?
MASTEN: Absolutely. To me and many of us. My Facebook has been lighting up all afternoon. And I can tell you, Anderson, that there is more women coming out now.
MASTEN: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.
COOPER: Tell me a little bit about what happened to you. You met him in 1979?
MASTEN: Well, I was a Playboy bunny in Great Gorge. And Bill Cosby was on the Playboy circuit. So he performed in all of the clubs. So I knew him for five years even before this situation happened. I was in Chicago as the bunny director, bunny mother they called it. And he was being interviewed by Maggie Daly, who was a famous columnist at "the Trib" at the time. And afterwards, he asked me if I wanted to have lunch. Now again, I knew him for five years. And so, we had lunch at banquet on a bun. And later that afternoon he called me on a private number in my office, which I didn't understand how he got that number. But he asked me if I wanted to have dinner the next night. And I said sure. So he called me that afternoon and said well meet me at the Whitehall hotel.
So I didn't think anything of it. He was in town doing a comedy show. He was doing interviews. So I met him at the Whitehall. I called from downstairs. He said come up to this particular suite. When I went up to the room there were four other men in the room. And they were playing cards and smoking cigars and watching sports. And Cosby asked me if I wanted to have a drink and it was 7:30 in the evening. I wasn't much of a drinker. And I said, well I will have a little Grand Marnier. Now, that is an after dinner drink. So you can tell what kind of a novice I was. And he sent the bellman out to get the bottle. Brought the bottle back up and he fixed the drink behind me. I took two sips. And that was the last thing I remember -- Two sips.
MASTEN: At 4:00 in the morning I woke up in bed, naked, bruised and battered. And I looked over and he was there naked. And I slivered out of the bed because I didn't want to wake him. And I gathered my clothes and I got dressed and I went downstairs. And I got a cab. Went to my apartment. Took a shower. I had to go back to work at Playboy had to get the girls on the floor. And I went back to work.
COOPER: Do you have a memory of what happened between that drink?
MASTEN: I don't have any memory of what happened. But I knew. I knew, that I was brutally raped. I knew it.
COOPER: And you -- he reached out to you the next day I understand?
MASTEN: Yes. And he said why did you leave so early? And I was so startled by that conversation. I said I had to go back to work. So he says well I am sending you a gift. And about four hours later, a 4-foot Fichus tree shows up in my office and a note on there and it said you have to groom this tree like you do our friendship, make sure you cut the leaves and prune it, and that is whole big dissertation how to take care of this plant.
And naturally, I threw it out. And he kept calling and calling. And I guess he finally got the message that I wasn't going to see him again. And then he kept calling and asking for different bunnies. Can I have bunny Michelle? Can I have bunny this? Bunny that? And I kept writing notes down and throwing them out and throwing them out. I refused to give them to my girls.
COOPER: What made you finally come forward?
MASTEN: What made me finally come forward was when I heard it was a 15-year-old that he raped, drugged and raped. And a 15-year-old, Anderson, is a child. That is an innocent child. And for this monster to rape a 15-year-old child and at Playboy mansion.
COOPER: Somebody else who later came forward? MASTEN: Yes. And after he raped me, I told my bosses at Playboy what
he did to me. And Playboy said to me, well you know, Bill Cosby is Hefner's best friend, right? And I said, yes I know that. Well nobody is going to believe you. I suggest you shut your mouth.
COOPER: That's what you were told?
MASTEN: That's what I was told.
COOPER: So the fact now that he had testified that he did in fact give Quaaludes in the '70s, and I guess with multiple prescriptions, you feel it is complete vindication?
COOPER: And do you think --
MASTEN: It's the tip of the iceberg, Anderson. It's the tip of the iceberg. Trust me when I till you my Facebook is blowing up. I work with hundreds and hundreds of Playboy bunnies. It's blowing up right now.
COOPER: From people who used to be playboy bunnies.
MASTEN: That is correct.
COOPER: If we could just hold that thought. I am going to take a quick break. I want to continue talking with you if that is all right. We are going to take a short break. We are going to have much more on this story and others. We'll be right back.
[20:22:55] COOPER: And we are back with Patti Masten, one of Bill Cosby's many accusers. Right before the break not only were you recounted on what you say happened to you in 1979, but also you said you were in touch with many women who worked for playboy who are reaching out to you saying they had similar experiences. Are these people who have not yet come forward publicly?
MASTEN: There are many who haven't come forward.
MASTEN: We're up to 48 who have come forward, 48 women. There is probably another 50 that are Jane does.
COOPER: Really, you believe?
MASTEN: I know. I know. I know. And there is my Facebook is lighting up. We have private Facebook pages just for playboy bunnies only. And it's light up. He did me too. He's coming out, you know. It's happening.
COOPER: Why do you think somebody would drug - I mean, this was a guy who, at the time was at the height of his fame. Probably not even at the height of his fame. Incredibly popular. Incredibly well-liked. Could have probably met women. Do you think this was something he particularly liked to do, the drugging aspect?
MASTEN: He is a sociopath. They have no remorse. They don't have feelings about people. They don't have any feelings at all. If he wanted to have sex, believe me, he could have had sex with anybody at any time. He was a very wealthy man, a celebrity, especially up at Hefner's mansion. There are enough, you know, girls that hung around there that he could have easily had sex with. But to drug a person and then to violate them like that, that's a sociopath.
He, he will definitely be known as the most prolific serial rapist in the United States of America. No doubt. Dr. Huxtabul will be.
COOPER: And you believe more women will come forward?
MASTEN: I know. I know they will.
COOPER: Well, Patti, appreciate you being on tonight. Thank you very much.
MASTEN: My pleasure.
COOPER: Back with the panel, Dr. Drew Pinsky, Areva Martin and CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney Mark O'Mara.
Dr. Drew, what do you make of what Patti has just said?
PINSKY: Well it is breathtaking when you hear her state the allegations and lay it out the way she has. She could be right. I mean, that is certainly a possibility. If, if what she is saying is accurate she will be proven to be right.
I found it interesting that she had only two sips of the Grand Marnier that she ordered with the Quaaludes allegedly in it. That suggests - first of all, she may have forgotten what happened after the initial dose. People's memory gets erased moving forward. And so, she may have eventually drunk more than she remembers. But in any case, even to have induced that degree of memory problem that quickly suggests that he put rather high concentrations, potentially dangerous concentrations. I mean, you can easily overdose on a Quaalude. It is not a safe medication. I'm surprised that somebody wasn't really hurt.
[20:25:40] COOPER: Areva, you point out that in this lawsuit, the plaintiff's legal team actually had to petition the judge to answer questions. Is that normal?
MARTIN: Very normal in a case of this nature where you have a high profile individual like Bill Cosby. The deposition is likely to be, as we saw in this case, very contentious. Lots of objections being made by both side. And when they got to the really difficult questions about the drugs and giving the women drugs and whether the women knew they were taking drugs, Bill Cosby's attorney refused to allow him to answer those questions. And the plaintiff's attorney had to go into court and get an order compelling him to respond. But I think of something very important that your guest said,
Anderson, and that is the concept that people not believing that Bill Cosby would do this. And what we heard time and time again from all of these women is that when they tried to come forward, people didn't believe them.
And so, even when we think of the Constand lawsuit and the privacy clause, the private settlement agreement, sometimes women have to file civil suits because when they go to the criminal justice system they're not believed and the cases are very, very difficult to prosecute.
So I don't want to give the impression that women are selling these lawsuits or they are filing them just to get money. These are very difficult cases for women to come forward with and then for prosecutors to file and to prove against offenders like Bill Cosby.
PINSKY: And Anderson, if I could interrupt you. Also, it is indicting what she said about how we have treated women. There is a historical element. If we still treat women look this, shame on us. But then in 1979, she steps forward to her boss and says, I've been raped, and he says shut up. That is a historical note that needs to be taken very seriously because, boy, the feminist literature should get ahold of that.
COOPER: Mark, could this affect more civil suits against Bill Cosby? I mean, because the statute of limitations for most of these, you know, for most of these incidents, most of these crimes, alleged crimes has expired?
O'MARA: Yes. That's the problem. Most of the crimes, statute of limitation has long since run. There is nothing that individual states are going to be able to do against him. Similarly for civil lawsuits they also have statute of limitations. There are some very few exceptions when you intentionally hide information. But it is very difficult, unfortunately, even and this is all coming out now, we get an insight into sort of the psychopathy of what seems to be gathering evidence of a serial rapist, it may be that he is only tried in the court of public opinion because there is not many courts that still have jurisdiction over him.
COOPER: Well, Mark O'Mara, Areva --
MARTIN: Could I just say this?
COOPER: Yes. Go ahead, Areva.
MARTIN: I just wanted to say I agree with Mark, but I think the importance of this is that more women will be empowered to come forward now that they know he has gone on record and admitted that he has raped and drugged women. So we may get some cases that not barred by statute of limitations.
COOPER: Dr. Drew Pinsky, Areva, great to have you on. Thank you.
Just ahead, we have more breaking news tonight. The undocumented immigrant accused of shooting and killing a woman in San Francisco has just been charged.
And Donald Trump doubling down tonight on his remarks that many found offensive. He has issued a new statement on the killing. And it appears to be trying to make, well, a political point about what happened. A young woman shot dead while taking a walk with her father. How immigration factors in? Why Mr. Trump says the killing proves his point about undocumented immigrants from Mexico.
COOPER: There is breaking news tonight -- and apparently random and totally senseless shooting death of a woman along San Francisco's waterfront. The man who admits to killing her, an illegal immigrant from Mexico who's entered the country and been deported many times has now been formally charged in her death. That is him, Francisco Sanchez charged with murdering Kathryn Steinle. Now, he will be arraigned tomorrow. Kathryn's killing has focused attention on the city's policy -- concern, and her case has been taken up by presidential hopeful Donald Trump. Now, in a moment the breaking news on that. He's doubling down on his statements. Also tonight I'm going to talk to the victim's brother about his sister and her life.
But first the full story from Sara Sidner.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A father reacts to the searing pain of losing a loving daughter at the hands of a stranger.
JIM STEINLE, VICTIM'S FATHER: You know, this was evil. Evil personified.
SIDNER: Jim and his daughter, 32-year old Kathryn Steinle were taking a stroll on picturesque pier 14 in San Francisco. At the same time this man, Juan Francisco Lopez Sanchez, fired a gun he says he found wrapped in a t-shirt in the dumpster.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you shoot Kate Steinle, the lady who was down on pier 14?
JUAN FRANCESCO LOPEZ SANCHEZ, SHOOTING SUSPECT: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You did shoot her?
SIDNER: He says the shooting was an accident, but the killing has sparked a national debate over immigration reform. Lopez Sanchez is an undocumented immigrant who's been deported from the U.S. five times. It would have been six, but his case got caught in the local versus federal policy fight. (on camera): And let me just ask you this, from a lay person's standpoint looking at this, it looks like San Francisco sheriff's department messed up here. What do you say to that?
SHERIFF ROSS MIRKARIMI, SAN FRANCISCO CITY AND COUNTY: You are completely wrong about that. As sheriff I adhere to the laws that govern our land. And San Francisco is not alone. In fact, well over 300 municipalities have similar laws like San Francisco because what has not been reconciled on the federal level, local governments and state governments are devising new laws that help direct the relationship about ICE.
MIRKARIMI: And what is troubling, is that this word detainer that ICE is putting out there that they had asked our department, they have known for a long time that what we require in San Francisco like the 299 plus other cities is that we need a lawful court order and warrants or a court order that helps the transference of somebody in our custody to ICE. And this has been in practice for quite some time.
SIDNER: Lopez Sanchez had just been in federal prison and would have been put in deportation proceedings, but because of a decades old outstanding warrant in San Francisco immigration and customs enforcement handed him over to local authorities. But San Francisco declined to prosecute the old drug case and the sheriff's department let him go free. Even though immigration officials had asked San Francisco sheriff's department to notify them if he was to be released. But they did not.
(on camera): Do you feel at all any guilt or responsibility for this?
MIRKARIMI: I feel horrible about this. This is absolutely horrible. It's a senseless tragedy. And I think it really does spotlight the fragmentation of how law exists between a local state and federal level and how it is completely sort of patch worked around the country. But you can't deny that over 300 cities now in a very short period of time had adopted laws like San Francisco meaning something that is not working on the federal level.
SIDNER: The reason the sheriff's department declined to notify ICE officials, is because San Francisco is a so called sanctuary city. Generally speaking, it won't hand over nonviolent undocumented people without a court order. But the family wants nothing to do with the political debate saying their sole focus is on reminding the world of what a wonderful person Steinle was.
JIM STEIMLE: It is not going to bring Kate back, again finding the guy and whatever, the justice will work its way through the system. But our focus is on Kate.
COOPER: And Sara Sidner joins us now. So, the shooter -- he told a local station that he intentionally came back to San Francisco because it is a so-called sanctuary city, right?
SIDNER: That's exactly right. And that has heightened the frustration that people have with this case. The anger, really, the outrage. The fact that he had been deported five times and that he had come back here knowing that he would not necessarily be deported again if he was picked up by local authorities. Anderson.
COOPER: All right, Sara Sidner. Thanks, coming up. We're going to talk to Kathryn Steinle's brother about his sister. But the breaking news, not only has Donald Trump latched on to this tragedy and doubled down on his remarks about illegal immigrants. He is also facing new consequences of what he said. ESPN late today announcing it will be moving, the network celebrity benefit golf tournament from a trump course to a different property. The reason, they say, those remarks that he made about illegal immigrants from Mexico. Remarks he is not in any way disavowing, far from it. This evening he put out a statement or to be precise, a restatement. It reads in part "What could be simpler or more accurately stated, the Mexican government is forcing their most unwanted people into the United States. They're in many cases criminals, drug dealers, rapists, et cetera. Senior Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny has been reporting story and the political fallout. He joins us now with more.
So, Jeff, the fact that Donald Trump is pointing to this tragedy in San Francisco to underscore his own argument on immigration doubling down with this new statement. What impact do you think that has on the campaign?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, he did double down. In fact, he released a statement tonight saying that pointing to this exact shooting. And he said there are thousands of these incidents across the country a year. Now, that is exactly how Donald Trump gets in trouble. That's almost certainly an exaggeration and overstatement here. And that is what worries Republicans. He is sort of a loose cannon in their view on some of these issues here. And they believe that he is not going to stop talking about this. And all this comes, politically speaking, with the first Republican presidential debate only a month away. That's why they think it is a political problem.
COOPER: There is also others who will point to him and say, look, just forget about the politics, that it's just the decency of this, that they believe it is maybe inappropriate. This is, you know, a tragedy for this family for anybody who knew this woman. And he runs the risk of seeming to try to be scoring some political points off it, or make a political point based on, on a human tragedy.
ZELENY: I think he runs the risk, and in fact crossed the line. I think a lot of people would say. I mean, when there are tragedies that occur. Presidential candidates often comment on them, but not in a way like this, Anderson. I am not sure I can remember something so quickly being seized on in the middle of a political debate. And we, you know, frankly, the tragedy in San Francisco has very little to do with what he was saying overall in this speech. So, he was trying to seize on to it as kind of, you know, to amplify his point here. But I am not sure that, you know, that the most voters would sort of like that. George Pataki, now the former governor of New York who knows him well. And he said it was outrageous that they connected these two. So, I think he may have crossed the line here by blurring these two issues.
COOPER: If you look at the early states, Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina, they're not states with huge Latino populations. When the Republican establishment is worried about the general election. That is not necessarily, Donald Trump's calculation at this point.
ZELENY: Sure, you're right. I mean his calculation, obviously, is appealing to some members of this conservative base. Some people who are so fed up on immigration. And in fact, a lot of these people are in these early states. Iowa has had a very complicated immigration debate going on. Complicated in the sense that some Republicans thinks it is too harsh. Same in South Carolina. But Republicans are worried, like you said, about that general election debate here. There is no path to Republicans winning the White House if they do not get a bigger share of the Hispanic vote. And it's comments like this that worry party leaders and party elders that will block them from doing so.
COOPER: Jeff Zeleny. Jeff, thanks.
ZELENY: Thanks, Anderson.
COOPER: Well, let's "Dig Deeper" now with Ana Navarro who is an adviser to a number of GOP candidates and a Jeb Bush supporter. Also, Paul Babeu, sheriff of Pinal County, Arizona, who is considering a run for Congress next year.
So, Ana, when Donald Trump points at this San Francisco murder and says look, this is exactly what I am talking about, the system is broken, this guy should not have been in the country. Do the other GOP candidates, don't they have to agree with him, whether they like it or not?
ANA NAVARRO, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: I don't think so. I don't think anybody feels compelled to agree with Donald Trump. I think most of the GOP candidates, certainly the serious ones see him as a carnival barker, they don't see him as, you know, real genuine candidate. That's why it has taken a while for folks to respond to him, because ...
COOPER: But he's number two in the polls?
NAVARRO: Yeah, but, you know, part of it, is his name I.D., his celebrity status, it's the fact that people like the spectacle and reality show that he is bringing to politics. So I don't think they, you know they have to agree. And I think that George Pataki is right. And it's, you know, a lot of people are going to see it as exploiting a tragedy and we should focus on where the system failed this woman. Where the system failed the citizens of San Francisco. And letting this man out on the street. But let's not exploit it for political purposes. COOPER: Sheriff, you're in law enforcement, you're also a politician,
you're Republican, you're going to run for office.
SHERIFF PAUL BABEU, PINAL COUNTY, ARIZONA: Yes.
COOPER: What do you make of what Donald Trump has been saying?
BABEU: Well, he is talking about a very real issue. And it isn't just San Francisco's problem. This is America's problem. And there isn't a state that's not affected by the criminal element of the -- of the people who are here.
COOPER: Are the people you are seeing coming across the borders rapists?
BABEU: There are some. He, he paints with too wide of a brush here. I don't agree with his comments. To make that clear. 30 percent of the 400,000 residents of my county are Hispanic. Many of them of Mexican descent, good, decent, hardworking Americans. Yet there are thousands of criminal illegals that are released every year. 30,000 last year alone. And that's what I think he is tapping into this anger for Americans. Because you and I have to follow the law. But there are 193 convicted murderers who are not from America who were released into our communities. 400 that were convicted of rape and sexual assault. 300 convicted of kidnapping. And when it appears, and it is very real that there is a lack of consequence or punishment, what do we think is going to happen? You don't have to be the sheriff to figure out that these people are going to commit serious crimes again and again. And against American citizens. And so, even though I don't agree with him, he is tapping into this anger that exists because of the failures in our system when we have to follow and abide by law, but it appears that there is no law when it comes to illegal immigration certainly when it comes to these most dangerous criminals. And here you even have ICE that is out attacking San Francisco for this. I'm shocked that they're so outraged. And I'm glad that they are.
COOPER: Ana, I mean you hear what the sheriff is saying. Maybe Donald Trump isn't the right person to be leading this conversation, he's painting with too broad a brush, but it's a conversation that needs to be had and tougher border security, tougher law enforcement and penalties, that's part of it right?
NAVARRO: Oh, and I think people are having that conversation. People who are advocates for immigration reform all talk about having zero tolerance for illegal aliens, undocumented immigrants who come here and commit crimes. The problem here is that this guy had seven felonies and they let him loose without turning him over to ICE. That really defies logic and I think that San Francisco's bleeding heart liberalism and compassion just went too far in this case and the system is broken. Definitely. Definitely. Look, I am an immigrant to this country. I can tell you, Anderson, yes, there are some people who are bad apples in every single group, every single ethnicity, nationality, race, et cetera. We just saw this weekend, what, 40-some shootings in Chicago. Almost 10 deaths in Chicago over the weekend.
NAVARRO: Those were not immigrants committing it. There is bad apples and good people in every group. That being said, yes, we have to address the border. Yes, we have to address the fact that if you come here as an immigrant, you come to this country, and you turn around and you commit crimes, there should be no tolerance and no welcome mat for you.
COOPER: Sheriff, you know, Donald Trump says we need what he calls, a great wall at the U.S./Mexico border, he's going to make Mexico pay for it. How realistic is it to build an impenetrable wall across the entire border. I mean when you hear that, because that's something people have been trying to build walls for a long time. Billions have been spent on border security. Is that feasible?
BABEU: One, I don't advocate for that. Combat engineer retired Army officer, I actually helped build border fence south of San Diego. And not all 2,000 miles need a fence. We are not building the great wall of Mexico. We need 700 miles of this barrier on areas that are already determined to be historic proven, smuggling corridors. And we need the technology to complement it, cameras, infrared, lighting sensors. And in far more important than the fence, or all that technology I mentioned, we need enforcement of the law. The laws that already exist that literally have just been with the wave of the hand, that's why we are arresting in my county people who are committing crimes in my state, that have been deported eight times. 15 times. Heck, last month we arrested a guy that almost proudly proclaimed he has been deported 20 times. And so, don't scratch your head trying to figure this out why they keep coming back, I'm talking the criminals, is because there is a lack of consequence. So, what do we think is going to happen?
COOPER: Right. Sheriff, I appreciate you being on again. Sheriff Babeu, Ana Navarro, thank you always.
NAVARRO: Thank you.
COOPER: A quick political programming note - CNN's Brianna Keilar has secured the first major sitdown interview of the campaign with Democratic front-runner Hillary Clinton. You can see it along with our usual "Keeping Them Honest" analysis tomorrow night right here on the program at 8:00. Just ahead tonight, we'll revisit the part of the San Francisco story that can never be co-opted or corrupted by partisan politics. We'll be joined by Kathryn Steinle's brother to learn more about the sister that he so desperately misses.
COOPER: We have been reporting the political fallout from the killing in San Francisco because one of the leading presidential hopefuls has adopted it as a talking point. The risk is in seeing it only through that kind of lens. The clearest and most enduring view of what happened on that pier comes from those who knew and loved the victim. Kathryn Steinle. And will love her for the rest of their lives. Joining us by phone her brother Brad.
Brad, I'm so sorry for your loss, I cannot imagine what these last few days have been like for you and your family. Can you just talk to me a little bit about Kathryn? What kind of person she was? What kind of person she is?
BRAD STEINLE, KATHRYN STEINLE'S BROTHER: My sister was - she was my best friend. She was a person I called for advice. She was the most amazing, outgoing, loving person. And I was lucky enough to have her as my sister for 32 years. And we're devastated. And we're lost. But we want her memory and the love and her soul to live on. And she was a very strong, and she traveled the world. She lived in Italy for a year. She traveled to Africa, to China, all over Europe. And you know, she posted something on her Facebook the day before she died. That says whatever is good for your soul, do that. And that's how Kate lived. And we just want to spread that message. And at a time like this it is easy for some, for us, it would be easy for us to hate and be angry. But Kate wouldn't want that. So we're just -- we're trying to spread a message of love and that's what Kate would want.
COOPER: That is an incredibly hard thing to do, I imagine. I mean at a time like this to not be angry to not feel hate?
BRAD STEINLE: Yeah, yeah. I mean in my wildest dreams I could never imagine having this conversation. And if you had asked me a month ago if I would be angry at somebody who killed my sister sure I would tell you yes. But the unthinkable has happened and we're focusing on the good. Because Kate was a good person. She was a great person. And you know, the circumstances are horrible and we have lost a person we cherish more than anything. But all I feel now is love and I'm thankful that I had the time that I had with her because she was the most amazing sister. If I was able to talk to Kate right now she would say, hey, Brad, it's OK. Just spread my memory and spread love and I know that would make her smile.
COOPER: And I know we're not going to talk about any politics or how this has become a larger issue because I really want to just focus this on, on your sister and I imagine part of your concern is that who she is will get lost in all of that. I read a story that your neighbor told about her coming over to his house when she was little to give flowers to her daughter, his daughter who just broken her arm. It sound like that's the kind of thing she did a lot?
BRAD STEINLE: Yeah, yeah. Kate had the biggest heart.
BRAD STEINLE: Kate called my mom a couple of months ago. And she called my mom daily. And said that -- said to my mom, hey, mom, I hope you are not mad at me. But that jacket you got me a couple of weeks ago - I was out to dinner in San Francisco and saw a homeless person, who had a t-shirt on. And it was super cold outside. And I gave it away. So you might need to buy me a new jacket. And that's, that's just how Kate was. You know, in the worst time, in the worst imaginable of circumstances we are all staying strong because we have so much love for Kate. And this is what she would want. This is what we are giving her in her memory.
COOPER: Brad, I appreciate you talking to us tonight and just telling us a little bit about your sister. Thank you so much.
BRAD STEINLE: All right. Thank you.
COOPER: Well, Kathryn's family set up a GoFundMe page in her memory, we are going to put the link up there right now, on - below me, you can also find it on our own website at AC 360.com.
Up next, another live hour of "360" including the latest on the breaking news tonight. Newly unsealed documents showing that Bill Cosby testified nearly ten years ago about getting drugs to give to women he wanted to have sex with.
COOPER: Hey, good evening. Thanks for joining us 9 p.m. here in New York, and a whole new chapter for the many accusers of Bill Cosby. Tonight, one of those accusers is calling validation.