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Dr. Drew
AP Obtains Court Documents Where Bill Cosby Admitted To Having Obtained Drugs With The Intention Of Giving Them To At Least One Woman For Sex; An Exclusive Interview With The Mother Of The Boy Who Was Whipped By A Stranger; Man Accused A 14-Year-Old Boy Of Stealing His Pants And Wallet And Beats Him With A Belt; Deathbed Photo of Bobbi Kristina. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired July 06, 2015 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
[21:00:15] DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: We begin with breaking news about Bill Cosby. According to documents obtained by the "Associated Press," he
admitted to having obtained drugs with the intention of giving them to at least one woman for sex. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL COSBY, ALLEGED SEX OFFENDER: Hello, sweetheart. How is the lieutenant doing? Huh? Protecting the country?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: He is the man we all knew as the lovable Dr. Huxtable. The funny family guy. But just as Bill Cosby was about to
launch a T.V. comeback, the accusations began to flood in. Numerous women have accused him of first drugging and then raping them.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHELAN LASHA, ALLEGED VICTIM OF BILL COSBY FOR SEXUAL ASSAULT: I had a cold at this time, and he gave me a blue pill, which he said was an
antihistamine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JANICE DICKINSON, ALLEGED VICTIM OF BILLCOSBY FOR SEXUAL ASSAULT: This man is not a family man that he played on T.V. He is a rapist.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Joining us Ginger Gonzaga, actress; Areva Martin, attorney and legal consultant; Karamo Brown, social worker; Segun Oduolowu, host of
"Wired In With Segun" podcast, and Danine Manette, criminal investigator, author of "Messages For Joey." Hi, Danine.
Now, this came out because of a current case against him. Three women say they were defamed when his representatives claim the women were lying. In
evidence, legal documents from 2005, a sexual abuse lawsuit, Cosby admits to getting Quaaludes, so he could give them to young woman he wanted to
have sex with.
When the lawyer asked if Cosby ever gave the drugs to women without them knowing? His lawyer objected. He finally admitted to giving one of them
three half pills of Benadryl. In the lawsuit, two other women said they had knowingly been given Quaaludes. I want you to listen to this from one
of the alleged victims.
We are live, live tonight. I want you to know we really turned around all of our scripts and our whole shows, so we could cover this. Areva and I
were on Anderson Cooper a few minutes ago. We just though, we got to cover this. I want you to listen to what this alleged victim said tonight on
Anderson Cooper.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: There are enough of, you know, girls that hung around there that he could have easily had sex with; but to drug a
person and to violate them like that, that is a sociopath. He will definitely be known as the most prolific serial rapist in the United States
of America. No doubt, Dr. Huxtable, will be.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That is a profound statement. Areva, is that likely to be true?
AREVA MARTIN, ATTORNEY AND LEGAL CONSULTANT: Well, iu think what is incredible about that interview, Dr. Drew, as she said there are at least
50 other women. She says she has this Facebook check going --
PINSKY: Hyperbole?
MARTIN: I do not think so! She says there are already 48 women that have come forward and 50 more. So, we could be looking at hundreds of women.
And, although that deposition, we should be clear, is only about one woman.
That lawsuit involved one individual, but for those women that have come forward, they feel incredibly vindicated that now the denials, we now know,
have no meaning.
PINSKY: And, Areva, given that he admitted to really criminal behavior, under oath, why was not there a criminal investigation?
MARTIN: That is what is so troubling about all of this. We heard from the Philadelphia prosecutor that was involved at the time, and he said that
woman in that 2005 lawsuit did not come forward for one year. And at the time, forensic evidence was already gone, could not be tested, and that
there was not enough evidence to prosecute.
But, I find that so disturbing, particularly given the admission. And, what we keep hearing is, statute of limitations on the civil claims,
statute of limitations on the criminal claims, and this man who admits to drugging and raping at least one woman, goes free. No consequences, other
than a monetary settlement at this point.
PINSKY: Yes. Well, monetary settlement. Ginger, you sniff out some other sort of monetary exchange here maybe behind this?
GINGER GONZAGA, ACTRESS: Yes -- well, unfortunately, yes, the statute of limitations is why these are all defamation lawsuits.
PINSKY: Yes.
GONZAGA: And, people are now coming out. I mean, obviously, there have been several rumors that possibly women were paid off. I think it is a
good thing that this is now coming out, so these women do feel like something is happening.
PINSKY: And, I will tell you what else. This woman -- during the thing we did with Anderson, Areva, she said she went to her boss. This to me is
massive. This says so much about the history of women in our country.
MARTIN: Yes.
PINSKY: She went to her boss at the "Playboy" institution she worked for. It was like a "Playboy" club or something, and she reported that she had
been drugged and raped and the boss said, "Hey, this guy is important to us. Shut up." I think that is what it is. It is profound. It is
unbelievable.
GONZAGA: And that was the culture. And, I really think that now it is both not having the internet. That was the culture with women. Now that -
- any suppressed group, the more we evolve, the more they start to have a voice. And, I think that, that is why so many women feel comfortable now
coming forward about this.
And, are finally being able to, you know, have something said. The problem with this document, as well, is even his attorney, I feel like, has
resigned. He was like his only reason for not wanting the document to come out is because he said it was embarrassing.
[21:05:07] PINSKY: Wow!
GONZAGA: No, I am just saying --
PINSKY: Which is ridiculous.
KARAMO BROWN, SOCIAL WORKER: Yes.
PINSKY: Karamo, have you ever taken a Quaalude?
BROWN: Have I ever taken one?
PINSKY: Maybe.
(LAUGHING)
BROWN: Maybe.
PINSKY: I have not ever taken a Quaalude.
BROWN: I have been around Bill Cosby once or twice before, so who knows, he might have slipped me one. Just joking. But, I am actually really
happy that this has come out now. Like you said, maybe these victims are going to be vindicated.
I mean what has been happening here is that people have been confusing Bill Huxtable or -- what is his name? Dr. Huxtable.
GONZAGA: Yes.
PINSKY: It is his character.
BROWN: To the man, Bill Cosby, and that has been the issue. No one wants to believe him. Everyone wants to talk about his power, his money, his
influence, but now he has been exposed for the real monster he is and I hope these survivor feel a little bit better.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Yes, sir from the audience. Go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: Dr. Drew and to the panel and also to the audience members. I think it is very important that we understand that a
person in a situation such as Bill Cosby, if we were in the same situation, we would want to have some --
PINSKY: Some due process?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: -- clarity.
PINSKY: Some due process?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: Some -- exactly. These are, in fact, allegations. And, I understand there was a previous case, but --
PINSKY: Well, but now had admitted it.
GONZAGA: He just admitted it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: I understand --
GONZAGA: We have seen it in the court documents.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: I understand it is in the court document, but as we all know, just because it is in a court document in a previous case
does not mean that it may serve to vindicate or have persons vindicated in a current case that may be coming up.
GONZAGA: Well, we are still talking about old cases.
PINSKY: Yes. Yes.
GONZAGA: A lot of these are, you know, from the `70s or `80s and they just have not been able to come forward and maybe did not even feel comfortable
from being a victim or from not having the support.
PINSKY: Areva?
MARTIN: Yes, I just want to clarify. These are not court documents. He made this statement under oath in a deposition. A deposition is a
question/answer session where I ask you questions and you answer and you raise your hand and swear to tell the truth, like you would in a court of
law. So, these are his words. This is not written by lawyers.
PINSKY: Why would he lie about something --
MARTIN: This is a statement under oath.
PINSKY: You would think if he were going to lie, he would lie the other way, like saying, "No, I did not do that."
MARTIN: Absolutely.
PINSKY: But, Segun, you want to comment?
SEGUN ODUOLOWU, HOST OF "WIRED IN WITH SEGUN" PODCAST: Yes. I just do not understand why everybody is so surprised. You had a rich, powerful man.
It has been known in Hollywood. It is one of those dirty secrets that everybody in Hollywood has known. Comedians have joked about it.
The reason the story even broke was Hannibal Burress did a stand-up bit where he actually mentioned it. Two months -- I mean months ago, I went on
T.V. and said, I think he is guilty. I do not care if 50 of the women are lying, if he raped one woman, he is a rapist.
MARTIN: But, I do not think that, that is the problem --
ODUOLOWU: For the fact that more are coming out, just few -- Everybody did not want to because I agree with Karamo that everybody was like, "Oh, my
God. He is our T.V. dad, Jell-O pudding pops, Fat Albert, all of that." He is a rapist.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: All right. From the audience here. Yes, ma`am?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: I just kind of wanted to know, as a 25-year- old woman in 2015, why I have to like wear longer dresses and cover up myself instead of, you know, teaching men in 2015 not to rape people.
(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
I do not understand why it is like, against these women, people like, "Oh, they were just in it for the money. They are just in it to be around the
fame." I am sorry, like -- or they were dressing that way, so they wanted to be part of the party scene or whatever. Why do we have to change the
way that we are and why cannot we teach men not to rape people?
PINSKY: Yes. It is a pretty reasonable thing. And, I would not extrapolate from him to men in general, though I would. But, I would
extrapolate to a historical moment. I mean there really is -- Women were - - it is a long distance from where he was, where a woman could be raped and told to shut up by her boss. To me -- I hope the feminist scholars get
their hands on this, because it so speaks volumes, Ginger.
GONZAGA: Yes. And, I think it is good and I think with this, as tragic as it is, we are getting there. And, in the `70s, I think if these women came
forward, and some of them may have, people would have been said, "Oh, be quiet, he is famous." In 2001 to 2005 --
PINSKY: Now, they get on social media and it is game on.
GONZAGA: Yes.
PINSKY: And, now a mob piles on.
MARTIN: And, I think --
BROWN: Well, I think the misogyny still sticks in our country especially - - Because a lot of women are still scared to come forward. So, that --
PINSKY: OK. Guys, I have so much more I want to get to in this show.
BROWN: Yes.
PINSKY: I got to interrupt this. We just want to get this topic in because, you know, Areva, had done this with Anderson, it caught our
attention. There is a historical moment here, not just now, but referencing back where we have been and women still have some distance to
cover as that young lady suggested to us.
The fact that she has to feel as though she has to cover to up to me is a huge, huge problem. For those who wonder what a Quaalude is. It is a
barbiturate. It causes severe sedation with alcohol, severe memory problems. The way the woman describe what they got, they got a pretty big
dose and actually could have been dangerous.
I wonder if we are going to hear about some overdoses as well. But, you know, that one woman made a provocative statement, saying this could have
been a serial rapist situation. You cannot get your head around it, but we will keep an eye on it.
Next up, an exclusive interview with the mother of the boy who was whipped by a stranger. We have her exclusively. We will get back to it after
this.
[21:08:49] (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:13:54] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (1): What did you do?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (2): He stole my pants from the park and ran, right? Tell him what you did. Tell him what you did.
UNIDENTIFIED 14-YEAR-OLD KID: I stole his pants.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Why you stealing from people.
UNIDENTIFIED 14-YEAR-OLD KID: Awwww!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (2): Bad!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROLONDA WATTS, HOST OF "SUNDAYS WITH ROLONDA" PODCAST: I am old school. I grew up in North Carolina. We got whoopings like that. And, you best
believe, we did not do that stuff again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: You going to ever steal again?
UNIDENTIFIED 14-YEAR-OLD KID: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: No?
UNIDENTIFIED14-YEAR-OLD KID: Never in my life.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Never in your life?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENNA KRAVITZ, CLINICAL NEUROPSYCHOLOGIST: It is 2015. There are way better ways to discipline your children than beating them with a belt.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ODUOLOWU: I would rather that man beat that kid with a belt than it was a cop who found him and shot him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNEELISE GOETZ, ATTORNEY: We are not a self-policing society. We are not a society where you see a wrong, and then you punish the person.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: White people do things differently. We cannot do that. I am going to discipline them before you guys get a chance
to shoot them. You hear me?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: A man accused a 14-year-old boy of stealing his pants and wallet and beats him with a belt. All caught on tape. I will speak to the teen`s
mom exclusively in just a second. The beating video was posted to Facebook and has over 10 million views so far. I am back with Ginger, Areva,
Karamo, Danine, and Segun.
Areva, you are a child`s rights advocate. You are also African-American. What about what Segun said and what about what the woman said on the show
the other day, that somehow this is going to get in the way of people shooting this little boy? I am confused?
MARTIN: Well, I love Segun and I love Rolanda. So, I will start with that.
It is my preference.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: But, you know, I do too. I really do.
MARTIN: But I must say, we are mixing apples and oranges. Of course, we do not want police using excessive force against African-Americans or
anyone, but beating a kid like that is not the answer. That is child abuse. That is assault. That is battery.
And when Rolanda says, I grew up in the south and that is what happened to me. Well, guess what, we used to drive around in cars without seat belts.
We used to put kids in cars without putting them in safety seats. So, there are lots of things we did as a society before we knew they were
harmful.
PINSKY: Right.
MARTIN: And once we learned they were harmful, we did better. We can do better than that with parenting.
PINSKY: And Danine -- Danine, you actually direct messaged me multiple times after the show last week with this very message. You work in law
enforcement. You see the actual consequences of this kind of discipline. What is it?
DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: Exactly. And, the thing is, Dr. Drew, it is not hands-on discipline that keeps kids on the straight and
narrow. It is hands-on parenting.
MARTIN: Yes.
PINSKY: Yes.
MANETTE: And if they need to be disciplined, then that is fine. But that cannot be the end-all, be-all to parenting. And if you think every kid in
juvenile hall was called time out and is standing in corner and was not whooped, you are wrong. Because those kids have been whooped and beat, and
that was, unfortunately, most of their only form of discipline. So, that is not the end result. That does not help.
PINSKY: Somebody tweeted me today and they said -- it was a great tweet. I wished I had sent it on to my producers, because it said, "Basically, we
were whipped. We were hit with switches as kids. I turned out fine. My brother is in jail."
And, that point is well taken. It is not as though you are going to be in jail if you were whipped. You can turn out like Rolonda and be great. The
problem is -- I do not know about Segun. He is some sort of, I am on the fence.
But the point is, the reality is, it is risky to do that to your kids. The probability is -- there are so many better ways to do it. Just like you
can drive in the car with your kid in the car seat, but it is risky to do that! Why would you do that?
GONZAGA: And if the video had been of a father or a mother betting that same child, people would have been up in arms.
PINSKY: Do you think?
GONZAGA: I think --
(CROSSTALK)
ODUOLOWU: That is not fair. That is not fair. Do not say that is Adrian Peterson. Adrian Peterson beat his 4-year-old to the point where the kid
was bleeding. So, do not compare abuse and discipline. And the problem --
PINSKY: Well, wait a minute! This guy took out a cat of nine tails. He did not even know the kid and whipped somebody else`s kid.
ODUOLOWU: Dr. Drew, look. He took a belt and he gave the kid 14 strokes. Let us --
MARTIN: Whoa! 14 --
ODUOLOWU: You guys -- you all want to say abuse. Let us define abuse as an ongoing pattern of something. This was a one-time affair. And, I know,
personally, that I got beaten. I got beaten, and look, mom, I am on T.V. And, I know you got --
PINSKY: Like I said --
ODUOLUWO: But, I know you got a switch.
MARTIN: Segun --
ODUOLOWU: And I know there were a couple people in the audience that got switches.
PINSKY: The Harvard lawyer did not get a switch.
MARTIN: I got a switch and it was wrong for my parents to give me a switch and it would be wrong for any parent to give a child a switch, because
there are so many alternatives, Segun.
Just because you turned out OK or I turned out ok, does not mean the 700,000 kids that suffer abuse, mostly black and brown kids, 25 percent of
that is physical abuse. There is no justification. It is lazy parenting!
ODUOLOWU: We are talking about ongoing abuse.
MARTIN: What about needing a --
PINSKY: Segun. Segun. Segun!
MARTIN: Abuse can happen one time.
PINSKY: You are talking about chronic abuse.
ODUOLOWU: Yes.
PINSKY: Chronic abuse and abuse are different things.
ODUOLOWU: It is very different.
PINSKY: Chronic abuse is worse than acute abuse.
ODUOLOWU: Thank you.
PINSKY: But, listen, Danine -- Danine. I am going to get Danine in real quick and I got the kid`s mom on the phone. We will get her too. So,
Danine, go ahead.
MANETTE: Segun, I guarantee you. I guarantee you that a whooping was not the only thing in your parent`s tool bag in dealing with you. I am sure
they spent time with you.
MARTIN: Yes.
MANETTE: I am sure they monitored you and disciplined you in a lot of different ways. The problem is, that is the first go-to thing a lot of
these parents are doing today.
PINSKY: And this, by the way, Danine. This is some guy --
MANETTE: And that is it. That is the problem.
PINSKY: This is some guy taking the law into his own hands.
GONZAGA: a stranger --
ODUOLOWU: But, you do not realize the first sentence of what he said is, "I would like to take you home to your mom, but you will not tell me where
you live." He did not just pull out a belt and beat him at first. He talked to him first.
PINSKY: Hang on. Hang on. We will get to the audience. Go ahead. Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: I think any good intention that he might have had by disciplining this way was completely lost by having 10 million views
for everybody -- so now he is humiliated for life.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
MARTIN: Yes.
PINSKY: The kid?
ODUOLOWU: You cannot see the kid`s face. He is not humiliated. You cannot see the kid`s face.
PINSKY: Karamo.
BROWN: Regardless of this, as a parent, there is no way that I want a stranger touching my child.
PINSKY: Right!
BROWN: That is the biggest thing right here.
GONZAGA: George Zimmerman taking the law into his own hands as well.
BROWN: -- taking the law into his own hands, which is completely wrong here. I am african-american, and there is no way that I would see someone
else`s child and say, "This is going to be my responsibility to hit this child." Segun, I have to disagree with you. I am with you, Areva, on
this. This is clearly inappropriate.
ODUOLOWU: If they broke into your house and stole from you? You would not defend your property? This guy -- he stole from this man.
BROWN: You can hold him, but you are not going to -- grab this child and then beat him several times.
PINSKY: Hey, guys.
BROWN: That is the problem.
[21:20:00] PINSKY: Let me go on the phone. I got Sharounder Joyner. She is the mom of the boy who was beaten in this particular case. Sharounder,
thank you for joining us. Your son was struck at least 14 times with a belt. Is he OK now?
SHAROUNDER JOYNER, MOTHER OF TEEN BEAT IN VIRAL VIDEO (via phone): Yes, he is OK. He is sitting right here beside me.
JOYNER: OK. Well, send him our regards. Everybody has watched what he went through. And, was he humiliated by being on social media? Somebody
brought up that issue. Is he feel bad about it?
JOYNER: I am pretty sure he was humiliated by it.
PINSKY: And, Sharounder have you met the man who beat your child?
JOYNER: Yes, I did meet the young man.
PINSKY: And, what are your thoughts? What did you do?
JOYNER: Well, me, myself, like I said, I am a southern type of person. And, how Rolonda was speaking, if you were from the southern age like I
was, I am soon to be 40, we was brought up to basically discipline children, take them home that their parents when they are caught doing
something wrong.
PINSKY: Right.
JOYNER: Now, we are living in Milwaukee. It is 2015. You are right. It is a newer age and a newer day now. Now these kids are dying here. You
know, over things like that. So me, myself, personally, I would rather that man had whooped my son than me find my son in a ditch.
ODUOLOWU: I am sorry. I am sorry!
PINSKY: But if you find him where? If you find your kid where?
MARTIN: In a ditch.
JOYNER: Laying in a ditch or you know --
PINSKY: Who is going to put him in a ditch -- I do not understand. Why is the ditch -- Why do we go --
JOYNER: I am in fear. It is so terrible here with kids dying here. It is like basically, that is the main thing that is going on now here --
PINSKY: Where are kids dying? How many kids do you know that have died? And, how do they died?
JOYNER: Well, just the last couple of days, a 14-year-old just got killed by the lake, just the other day by another 14-year-old, you know? I mean,
literally --
PINSKY: But, so violence on child-on-child violence, this is not the way to deal with violence, by modeling violence with adults. Go ahead, Karamo.
BROWN: And, I am --
JOYNER: It is not the way to deal with violence, but me myself, how I deal with violence, I deal with it in the way, basically, the law would deal
with it.
BROWN: I am hearing this --
JOYNER: And, I uphold the law in every way.
PINSKY: Karamo.
BROWN: I am hearing this mother, and I respect her choices. Obviously, as a parent, this is what she feels she needs to do best. But as a parent
also raising young black men, I am with Areva, this is apples and oranges. We are not talking about that black men are dying in this country.
I understand that fear and I understand what is happening. But we are talking about some man that has grabbed your child and started beating him.
There is other ways to mentor and support young black men.
JOYNER: Well, me, myself --
BROWN: And I am from the south.
JOYNER: -- situation that has taken place. My son has gotten into trouble at home dealing with this problem. I have had police coming to my home
with regards to things that my son have done and all that.
PINSKY: Well, why do not we get that kid some help?
JOYNER: So, I have gone from take everything from him, taken all his games, everything, taking his free time away, nothing of that is helping.
--
PINSKY: But, here is the thing.
JOYNER: What he wants to or whatever --
PINSKY: Sharounder.
JOYNER: There are consequences that come behind things.
PINSKY: But here is the deal. This is no longer -- what you have described is no longer a parenting situation.
BROWN: Yes.
PINSKY: This is a child who is in trouble and we should get this child some help.
BROWN: Yes.
JOYNER: Yes, and I have been trying to get my son some help for some time now.
PINSKY: All right. Listen, let us talk about that --
JOYNER: I have been trying to --
PINSKY: Hold on. Hold on. Sharounder. Sharounder, stay with me.
JOYNER: You know.
PINSKY: We got you. We got you. I get what you are at and I get what struggling with. We are all certainly are not blaming anybody. We want to
help you. You are the women we need to support.
JOYNER: Right.
PINSKY: So you cannot get these kids help. We will get with you in just a second. Later on, someone is peddling -- there is a whole other topic
where he had a deathbed photo of Bobbi Kristina. We will get back to all of this, after this.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
[21:23:49] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (2): He stole my pants from the park and ran, right? Tell him what you did. Tell him what you did.
UNIDENTIFIED 14-YEAR-OLD KID: I stole his pants.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (2): Tell him how old you is?
UNIDENTIFIED 14-YEAR-OLD KID: I am 14 years old.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (1): He is 14 years old.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: I am an old school dude. I do not even want to hurt this little dude. I want to take him home to his momma, but he will
not tell me where he lives.
Some people going to think I am wrong for this, but he is 14 years old and this is why kids do this (EXPLETIVE WORD). You feel me? I do not want to
do this. Why you stealing from people.
UNIDENTIFIED 14-YEAR-OLD KID: Awwww!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (2): Bad!
UNIDENTIFIED 14-YEAR-OLD KID: I am sorry. I am sorry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (2): Tell them you are sorry.
UNIDENTIFIED 14-YEAR-OLD: I am sorry. I am sorry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: You going to ever steal again?
UNIDENTIFIED 14-YEAR-OLD KID: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (2): No.
UNIDENTIFIED 14-YEAR-OLD: Never in my life.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Never in your life?
UNIDENTIFIED 14-YEAR-OLD KID: Huh-uh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALER SPEAKER (2): Are we good or no?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: You know, it just occurs to me that I have got to specify something about this, that people may not understand. And, this is a fact,
as a physician, you have to accept this from me.
Humans have this crazy phenomenon, which is, when they are traumatized, they will reenact behaviors that end up setting them up for being re-
traumatized again. That is just how humans are.
So the probability is, this kid is going to do something else, not that -- you are right, that behavior will stop, but he will do something else that
will end up setting him up to have the same trauma repeated and repeated and repeated.
It is weird, it is how our brains work. It is just what we do. In this case, that boy was whipped 14 times with a belt for stealing a man`s pants
and wallet. Something he will probably not do again, but he will do other stuff.
His mother is with us exclusively tonight. I am going to talk to her again in just a second. I want to show you first how this whole episode ends.
Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: I am going give you my number, you hear me?
UNIDENTIFIED 14-YEAR-OLD: Yes, sir!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: You call me! Listen, bro, listen, stop calling. I am going to take you to the park. We are going to hang out and
stuff! You feel me? I am going to check on, you, boy. We are going to get you grades up. You hear me?
UNIDENTIFIED 14-YEAR-OLD: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: You hear me? I do not want you to go to jail. I started taking you to the police station. My debit card, my I.D., my
keys, everything was in there. Everything. For what? For nothing!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I am back with Ginger, Areva, Karamo, Danine, Segun. I also still have Sharounder. Sharounder, thank you so much, again, for staying with
us. Sharounder, let me just say. You have described your son as kind of acting out now. You are a single mom. That got to be really tough to
raise a kid that is behaving like that, right?
[21: 30:00] JOYNER: Yes, it is. Yes, it is.
PINSKY: And is there anyone who will help you? I mean this guy tried, but we are saying that we are not signing on to this one.
JOYNER: No, I have not gotten any help from anyone. I mean, he is an honor roll student and everything. He is good in school and all. But --
PINSKY: Sharounder. Sharounder, where is this guy`s dad? Where is the dad?
JOYNER: Well, I do not know.
PINSKY: Can we all agree that the dad needs to -- we got to hold dads accountable, Karamo? No?
BROWN: Of course, yes -- No, as a father, I always want to hold the fathers accountable. That is the main thing. And, from hearing the
passion in Sharounder`s voice, I know she is doing the best she can.
GONZAGA: Yes.
BROWN: So, I do not want to take that away from her at all.
PINSKY: But, listen, we do not need another victim.
BROWN: Exactly.
PINSKY: This woman needs to be supported.
BROWN: Yes. I just want to make sure that she know that there are other mentoring and support services that are available for her son. And,
sometimes they are hard to find.
PINSKY: You are a social worker.
BROWN: Exactly.
PINSKY: Tell her about it.
BROWN: There are many services that you can get.
JOYNER: I mean I have tried all of that, too. You know, I have tried everything, basically, trying to get them at youth centers and everything.
I mean even when I do that, I mean, it is something -- something goes wrong, somewhere. It is either they get into a fight or something happens
up there to where they are not able to go or come back.
BROWN: Sometimes one-on-one mentoring programs might work. I do not know if you -- it sounds like you are doing a lot of group programs. Sometimes,
it is getting him -- what this man was doing at the end, which was misguided, he was trying to say that he would support your son by mentoring
him in some way. Maybe there is someone that you can find, who is not going to show him this kind of violence and support him.
PINSKY: I want to get some from the audience here. Go ahead. Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Yes, I think --
JOYNER: Well, I would like someone to show him the kind of love that he needs shown and I also would like to show him the kind of discipline that
they need also --
PINSKY: Sharounder, there is discipline. Not this. It is not going to work, I am afraid. I am sorry. It is just not going to work. And love,
yes, I am a big believer in love, but this is more. This is more than just somebody needing love. Go ahead, yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: Yes, I believe that one of the worst things that can happen when someone commits a crime is that he actually gets away
with it. And, you guys are sitting here saying that, oh well, he should have just --
PINSKY: Take him to the cops.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: He should just take him to the cops.
PINSKY: That is not getting away with it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: No, it is not getting away with it, but I agree that maybe his method may have been misguided, but he -- he had the
right intent, in his heart, to give him tough love. That maybe he is not getting at home.
GONZAGA: Great intent are --
PINSKY: No, Sharounder for sure is giving him tough love. We hear all the stuff she is doing. But, Areva, what is going to happen with this man --
MARTIN: Well, let us talk about the law.
PINSKY: Yes.
MARTIN: Because he is being investigated criminally. You cannot just go and grab someone and start beating them. That is call assault and battery.
And, the fact that he stole the pants, means you go to the police and you make a police report about the theft. But the law does not allow you to
take it into your own hands --
ODUOLOWU: Areva.
PINSKY: Areva and Segun, hold on. Segun.
MARTIN: -- and beat someone.
PINSKY: Danine?
MANETTE: Yes. You know, I do not have a problem with somebody deciding their child. I do not -- across the board, I do not have a problem with
somebody deciding that they need to smack their child on the butt or whatever.
My problem is a total stranger that is coming along, he does not know anything about this kid. He could have had autism. This kid could have
had some kind of a mental illness history or something --
PINSKY: Yes, that is the thing.
MANETTE: -- and he decided to come and beat him up. We have got to have other things in our treasure-trove when it comes to disciplining our kid.
PINSKY: Segun.
MANETTE: He just grabbed the kid, pull him aside --
ODUOLOWU: Everyone keeps going like this was his go-to move. He tried to take the kid home to his mom, like it was not -- He did not pull the belt
out as his go-to move.
GONZAGA: Well, and the child did not invite him to --
ODUOLOWU: And, here is the thing. But, here is the thing that everything was like, you know, take him to the police. But when you live in fear of
what the police may do, like, we are not addressing that at all.
And, the biggest thing to me that everyone seems to overlook, his mom does not have a problem with this. It is her child. We are sitting here
telling her what she should do with her kid and she does not have a problem with how it was handled. How dare us to tell her how to handle her kid.
PINSKY: Ginger, one second. Yes, audience, go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: Now, I just want to say that this guy is a completely stranger.
GONZAGA: Right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: If the guy doing the disciplining was white, this would be a totally different reaction.
GONZAGA: I agree. If he was Caucasian, or let us say this was a police officer. A police officer cannot belt a child.
PINSKY: Yes. Well, let us say it was a little Filipino female --
ODUOLOWU: If it was a police officer, and then hide the gun. I have seen police officers in the last couple of weeks do a lot of crazy things police
are not supposed to do. So if a police officer --
GONZAGA: Hey, I am no pro-police --
BROWN: Segun, there is one big thing you are saying, you are saying that the mother is ok with this. But Dr. Drew has said this, as working in this
field, there is a cycle of abuse here. The reason she is OK with this is she probably experienced this and she thinks this is the way to discipline.
That does not make it right. Like Areva said --
ODUOLOWU: It does not necessarily mean that she did.
PINSKY: I will ask her after the break. She is also saying she wants help.
GONZAGA: Yes.
PINSKY: She is not saying, I got this. She is saying, I want help. We got more. Coming up, also, family squabbles and drug accusations during
the Bobbi Kristina Brown`s final days. Back after this.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
[21:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Tell them you are sorry, bro.
14-YEAR-OLD KID: I am so sorry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: You going to ever steal again?
UNIDENTIFIED14-YEAR-OLD KID: Never in my life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST OF "NANCY GRACE" PROGRAM: A little boy in a seemingly quiet suburban neighborhood gets the beating of a lifetime.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: 14 blows to the child`s behind. All the while, he was screaming, "It hurts!" and "I am sorry."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
14-YEAR-OLD KID: Owww! Please!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(21:25:05) PINSKY: Think about what that looks like. It is awful. It is not OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: He got beat for stealing and now he is going to knows not to steal again. He is going to be on the straight and narrow.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: The schoolboy keeps grabbing his front and his crotch.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: The buttocks is being jammed against the scrotum.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Still there is no evidence of this serious physical injury element.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: There is always a need for discipline. There is never merit for abuse.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: If somebody touches my twins that way, I am going to end up on the "Nancy Grace Show."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHING)
[21:40:00] PINSKY: Nancy Grace going to end up on "The Nancy Grace Show." Talking about the viral video of that child who has whipped 14 times after
he had admitted to stealing a man`s pants and wallet. His mother is with us, exclusively. I am back with Ginger, Areva, Karamo, Danine and Segun.
And, Areva, you want to make a comment?
MARTIN: Yes. I just want to make a point. And, again, being very respectful to this mom, but I do not want to leave your audience with the
wrong impression that parents have the sole say-so in what discipline can be used with their children.
PINSKY: The law does.
MARTIN: The state --
PINSKY: The state.
MARTIN: -- has an obligation to stand up for children. There are mandatory reporters like Segun, as a social worker, and if you go too far
and if you discipline your child in a way that leaves injuries or bruises or it is considered not reasonable discipline, you will be charged, you
will be prosecuted, and your child could be removed from your home. That is an important point to know.
BROWN: That was a really big thing that Areva and I were talking about, because I am a mandated court reporter. And, so, when I saw this video,
immediately, I thought to myself, we need to investigate what is going on this man`s house that he would abuse this child.
And, also, again, not to take away from his mother -- I do not want to take away from her, but immediately I had red flags of, "Is there something else
going on in her house with these other children." And, these are type of reasons why CPS is called and why we investigate these families.
PINSKY: Audience.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: I agree with everything you are saying, but I think we are confusing child abuse with discipline. There is a huge
difference. I think what you are talking about as a social worker and what you are talking about the 700,000 children that are abused --
PINSKY: But wait, wait. You do not define that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: We can.
PINSKY: These two guys do.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: No, no.
PINSKY: So -- well, let us talk about it. How is it defined?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: How is it defined? So, that is what something to do with --
PINSKY: Whoa! Whoa! How do you find it? You do social worker evaluations. How would you know a child is being abused?
BROWN: Well, it is by intent of the parent --
PINSKY: A mark --
BROWN: A mark on the body
PINSKY: Any mark.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Of course a mark.
PINSKY: I guarantee you at kid had marks on it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Was this child bleeding? These are the questions that we need to know --
PINSKY: I guarantee you that kid -- probably not big bruises --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: -- but also, with child abuse, these children who are suffering from child abuse, they are getting whippings for
drinking -- for peeing on themselves when they are 2 years old.
PINSKY: Now you are talking about --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: It depends on what you are giving discipline for.
PINSKY: No, it does not depends.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: It definitely, for sure. As someone who was disciplined like that.
PINSKY: Hold on. Mr. Social worker.
BROWN: Yes.
PINSKY: Does it matter what you are being disciplined for?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Absolutely. Absolutely.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Ms. Attorney?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: It absolutely does. It is absolutely.
PINSKY: Are you a social worker?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: I am not a social lawyer.
PINSKY: Are you a lawyer? Are you a lawyer?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: I am a child --
PINSKY: Are you a lawyer?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: I am child that has --
PINSKY: OK. I got a social and a lawyer here.
UNIDFENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: It does not matter what the occupation is.
PINSKY: Hang on. Hang on. Yes, it does! They set the laws!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: I am a child that has been disciplined.
PINSKY: If she comes in and she has one mark on her --
BROWN: If you came in here with one mark on you, we are going to then investigate.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Of course, of course, of course.
BROWN: That is it.
PINSKY: The law has set that as a standard. Yes?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: I am not saying that he went about it. I just think it was not child abuse.
PINSKY: No. No. No. Not had went about it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: I am saying that it was not child abuse.
PINSKY: There is either a mark. There is either a mark or there is not a mark.
BROWN: Yes.
PINSKY: That is it. Period.
ODUOLOWU: Dr. Drew, a whole lot of our parents --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Then all of us would be --
ODUOLOWU: -- would have been arrested.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Exactly.
PINSKY: That is correct!
(CROSSTALK)
ODUOLOWU: I am not disagreeing with you --
PINSKY: Segun, the laws have changed a lot as we modernize them.
ODUOLOWU: Dr. Drew, I understand that 100 percent. I think what this lady is trying to get across is, when you say "Intent," right? We are talking
about abuse where the intention is to hurt and not to discipline.
PINSKY: Segun. Segun, hold on.
MARTIN: But, we do not want to use that information.
PINSKY: Segun, can you please listen to me when I speak. Does intent have anything to do with -- nothing to do with it.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: -- about it the wrong way, yes. No one should take someone else is child. I do not even beat my niece and nephew.
But, all I am saying is -- I would not even do that. I, personally --
PINSKY: So you were abused?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: I was never abused.
PINSKY: OK. You were never did.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Was I whipped? Of course.
PINSKY: Was there a mark?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Yes.
PINSKY: OK, you were abused. That is it by definition.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: No, I was not abused.
PINSKY: You do not get to the bottom. You do not get to the bottom.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: You cannot nationally say that I was abused on national television.
PINSKY: Hang on.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Absolutely not.
PINSKY: What would the law say if there was a mark on her.
BROWN: I would say that you were abused.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: That is enough. Fine, the state says a lot of things that are wrong. I am not even concerned about that.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: But we are saying in this particular case -- what we are just trying to do in this particular case, of course, as a black man, I am
telling you that I agree, that there are a lot of things that the law gets wrong.
But in this particular case, this was a stranger that hit and marked up this little boy. That if I was to see this, my first job would be to
report and figure out what is going on in his house. And, that is all we are saying.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: We are blowing this story up, but at the end of the day, this child -- his life could have been saved by this act.
BROWN: But we do not know that. We are making a generalization.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: His mother is even saying this.
BROWN: But his mother also said that he --
PINSKY: Hold up. Wait a minute.
BROWN: -- his mother also says that she abused him -- that she whooped him. And at no point did he stop that behavior. She just said to me that
she sent him to different programs where he thought she would give him a whooping --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: The child needs -- obviously that is what he wants.
BROWN: Well, no. What the child needs is love and support and it is not in the form of abuse. That is what he needs.
PINSKY: So, Karamo. All your training as a social worker, it does not exist? You have no business having an opinion.
BROWN: Dr. Drew, that is not fair.
PINSKY: Your license by the state, your work in the state system. I want to talk to the mom. Sharounder, this is all around your kid and we really
appreciate you being with us today. And, it ultimately, ultimately, everybody, one thing we could -- I was in it for middle ground. We can all
get onboard with helping Sharounder, yes?
[21:45:00] GONZAGA: Yes!
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: And, Sharounder, what do you need? What do you think you need to help with your son? You need manpower, right? You need somebody to help
out with him, correct?
JOYNER: Yes, I need that. And I also need, basically, some stable way of moving around with them, so I can get them from place to place and taking
them --
PINSKY: How many kids do you have?
JOYNER: I have six kids.
PINSKY: And is he the oldest, youngest? Where does he sit in the six.
JOYNER: He is a middle child.
PINSKY: Middle child. And are the other kids OK or do you need help with them, too?
JOYNER: I do need help with one other one that is about his age.
PINSKY: OK. Is there one dad or more than one dad?
JOYNER: It is only stepdad in the home with them right now.
PINSKY: Is he able to help? Is he able to --
JOYNER: He is trying his best with them. He do not spank -- he do not do any whooping on them or nothing like that. He tries his best to talk to
them, to try to guide them in the right path, you know?
PINSKY: OK. So, the one thing we would say, there is three people that deal with Child Protective Services on a regular basis. Four of us,
Danine, you too. Danine, we will get to you here. What do you think Sharounder should do and then we have got to take a break?
MANETTE: Well, you know, honestly, there is a whole lot more going on in this house that a whooping is just not going to fix.
PINSKY: Yes.
MANETTE: And, that has become painfully evident to me. She needs help. She needs the community to rally around her, whether it be the church,
whether it be the strong, educated forward-thinking male in the neighborhood that can step up and take this boy out fishing, hanging out
with him, bonding with him, showing that male presence is not to beat you and whoop you, but is to love you and --
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
BROWN: Like I suggested, one on one.
PINSKY: One on one like Karamo said. We all, Sharounder, wish you the best, wish your son the best. I am glad he is well. He iha generated a
lot of conversation, and for that we are grateful. I am sorry he had to go through that in order for us to have this conversation, but I am glad we
are having this conversation. We are back after this.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
[21:47:10] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Time for the "Click Fix," where my guests will tell me what is trending on their Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram feeds. I am back with
Ginger, Areva, Karamo. Ginger, you are up.
GONZAGA: On the Twitter, I have, Bobbi Kristina as you know, is still, unfortunately, in hospice care, but Bobby Brown this weekend performed a
concert. So part of me thinks that this is an ill-timed concert. However, the guy needs money to pay for the hospice care.
PINSKY: Well, not exactly ---
GONZAGA: Very sad.
PINSKY: That man has been suffering through all this stuff, number one. And number two, is it his family that is shopping the picture of Bobbi
Kristina.
GONZAGA: Yes --
PINSKY: Well, let us go to the video. Let us go to the video. Let us take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BOBBY BROWN, FATHER OF BOBBI KRISTINA: You all I feel like I have been up here for like two hours. But, I am -- trust me, I am not going do anything
that I do not do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: And then there is that crazy picture. And, I am telling you, what you are going to see, if that picture comes public, it is awful when people
get in this state. It is bad. I have not seen it --
GONZAGA: Celebrity plus tragedy equals money. And, it is very sad and it is sad that family members would abuse that.
BROWN: That outfit that Bobby Brown had on was sad right there.
PINSKY: Karamo, you got a story. Go ahead.
BROWN: But on another note, maybe he can take some notes from Caitlyn Jenner, because on Caitlyn Jenner`s Instagram, she has actually been
stepping out in New York and she actually just met with a group of six transgender women.
And she said that she wants to meet with them because now that she has been living two weeks open, one of them being Candice Kaine, who is an actress
and openly transgender woman.
And saying that she needs to get advice from them on how to support the community, which is pretty amazing. Because she realized being a white
woman that she has a lot of privilege and that there is a lot she does not know of how to support transgender women, especially transwomen of color.
PINSKY: Interesting.
BROWN: Yes, which is really amazing. So, kudos to her. And maybe she can call Bobby Brown.
PINSKY: There you go. We are going to take a quick break. We got more "Click Fix" after this.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
[21:53:33] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Back with more "Click Fix." Areva, you were on deck.
MARTIN: Yes, I saw this on Facebook. It is an unlikely reunion between a robbery suspect and a judge. It is a tear jerker. Take a look.
PINSKY: I saw this. Oh my God.
MARTIN: Yes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE JUDGE: Hi, Mr. Booth. You are back. This time, you are charged with a burglary. OK, Mr. Booth, I have a question for you.
MR. BOOTH: Yes, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE JUDGE: Did you go to nautilus for middle school?
MR. BOOTH: Oh my goodness!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE JUDGE: I am sorry to see you there. I always wondered what happened to you, sir.
MR. BOOTH: Oh, my goodness!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE JUDGE: This is the nicest kid in middle school.
MR. BOOTH: Oh, my goodness!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE JUDGE: He was the best kid in middle school. I used to play football with him and all the kids and look what has happened. I
am so sorry to see this --
MR. BOOTH: Oh, my goodness!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE JUDGE: Mr. Booth, I hope you are able to change your ways. Good luck to you!
MR. BOOTH: Oh, my goodness!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE JUDGE: What is sad is how old we have become.
MR. BOOTH: Oh, my goodness!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE JUDGE: Good luck to you, sir. I hope you are able to come out of this OK and just lead a lawful life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Areva --
MARTIN: Oh, I do not know. She is grinning and in that last comment she seems a little spiteful.
PINSKY: It is a little hard.
GONZAGA: Does the judge she knows him?
MARTIN: She said she was his friend in middle school, but then -- I do not know --
PINSKY: You come across someone you are representing or --
MARTIN: Well, I have seen people in court. I have been in court representing clients and I have seen people who are in court being
represented because they were like defendants in criminal cases, and it is embarrassing. It is humiliating.
PINSKY: Here is my concern. We live in a country, you know, where it is very Hollywood. That is going to end up with somebody just flying off into
a new life. People need help changing. Change is really, really hard.
And you have to have all kinds of specialized supportive services for those kinds of changes to happen. I know Karamo, you have probably dealt with
situations like this. What does this man need?
BROWN: This man needs a lot.
PINSKY: Yes. Not just a judge, go ahead change in a lawful life --
BROWN: Not just a judge saying, you need to change your ways. The fact that he broke down just by seeing her, shows there is so much turmoil that
is going on inside of him. He needs a lot of therapy --
GONZAGA: And a reminder of childhood.
BROWN: Yes.
MARTIN: But humiliation is not a great way to start change.
BROWN: Yes.
MARTIN: That is probably humiliation. Millions of people have watched that.
PINSKY: And, I do not what we do to get this people the services they need. It is just -- it is all of us. We need an army out there supporting
and connecting with people and helping them change. Watch us on DVR. You can check us out anytime there. We will see you next time.
[22:00:00] (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
END
