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Nancy Grace
Mystery Tot`s Body Washes Ashore. Aired 8-9:00p ET
Aired July 06, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news now. Do you recognize this little girl? Tonight, mystery as the body of a 4-year-old little girl toddler
washes ashore.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A little girl found in a trash bag on the shore at Deer Island.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somewhere around 4 years old, brown eyes, brown hair, light skin.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A police (ph) blanket found with the body and a pair of black-and-white polka dot leggings she was wearing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don`t know who this young toddler is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live, San Francisco Bay -- Daddy, help me. Help me, Dad! Tonight, a father heartbroken, describing the final moments, his daughter
shot dead, shot dead on San Francisco`s pier by an illegal immigrant that had been deported five times. Tonight, we want justice!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shot in the upper torso.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kate Steinle killed with a single gunshot to the chest at a popular San Francisco pier.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Said something to her family members to the extent that she didn`t feel well, and she fell to the ground.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gasping for every breath.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And we go live. Did a 26-year-old mother dump her helpless baby daughter, still strapped in a carseat, on the roadside at midnight?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When Bishop Showell (ph) got out of his car, he found a baby carrier. Next to it was a diaper bag. And then next to that
was the baby`s formula, spilled all over the road.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. Do you recognize this little girl? Tonight, mystery as the body of a 4-year-old little girl toddler washes ashore.
Now, how can it be that no one recognizes this child?
I want to go straight out to our reporters on the story, still tonight looking for tips. To Laura Crimaldi with "The Boston Globe." Laura, thank
you so much for being with us.
It`s hard for me to understand how nobody can identify this little girl. She`s 4 years old. In four years, nobody has seen her? Nobody has
seen her in the neighborhood, at school, on the playground? How did it all unfold, Laura?
LAURA CRIMALDI, "BOSTON GLOBE": A woman who was walking her dog on Deer Island discovered the body of a 4-year-old girl in a trash bag on the
shore.
GRACE: Everybody, you are seeing the spot where the body of a 4-year- old unidentified girl was found. And with me, Laura Crimaldi, reporting on it.
Laura, it`s my understanding that this 4-year-old girl washes ashore. Her body is not skeletonized. She`s wearing an outfit. She`s wearing --
was wrapped in a zebra-striped blanket, no obvious signs of trauma to the body. She was in an industrial-style trash bag, and the bag was closed.
Now, what do they mean by an industrial trash bag? Are they talking about a zip (ph) bag?
CRIMALDI: No, I think they`re talking about something that a contractor would use, someone who was working in construction, to be able
to hold items that are heavier or larger.
GRACE: Oh, like the big, black bags. OK. I get it. So wouldn`t necessarily have those little ties on the end, like your kitchen bag does.
Look at this blanket. This is the blanket that was found. She was wrapped in this blanket. And we know the blanket is from Kmart. We know
these pants are Circo (ph) pants that are sold at Target.
Also with me is Joseph Scott Morgan, professor of forensics at JSU. Professor Morgan, thank you for being with us. I`m trying to determine
what we can learn from the facts that we`ve got. What do you think?
JOSEPH SCOTT MORGAN, PROFESSOR OF FORENSICS (via telephone): Well, I think that the most important thing here, Nancy, is the fact that we`ve
begun to generalize as far as the category that this bag falls into. It`s important to understand that -- that we have to start off broadly.
You say that we have a contractor`s bag, which is rather large. The next step we would need to do in forensics, relative to identifying that
bag and narrowing our search, is to try to determine what the lot number is that this bag came from.
And the way that we do that is, first off, discover how the bag was manufactured. This goes into areas like trace evidence, where we can
actually look at the striations on the bag and how the thing was clipped in manufacturing.
Remember, when we take a bag off of a roll, it has these perforations. Well, these bags come off of an entire roll in the manufacturing process,
and that goes to specific identification.
[20:05:09]Then we can break it down to a molecular level, where we can go in and look at how this thing is composed. Let`s keep in mind that most
of these major manufacturers that turn out these types of bags have registered trademarks that go along, even down to the molecular level, as
to how the bag is composed.
GRACE: OK, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait! Professor Morgan, I`m just a JD, all right?
MORGAN: Yes, ma`am.
GRACE: You`re the forensics professor. And when you`re talking about the molecular level, what I think you`re saying is that different
manufacturers use different products to create a varied sort of trash bag.
So if you could break down the trash bag at a molecular level, you can then determine who made the bag. And then you can get right down to the
lot number, which means which batch it came from -- in other words, where the bag was purchased. Is that what you`re saying?
MORGAN: You`re right on target with that, Nancy. And that`s very important. First, we have to determine a generalized category, and you`ve
already established that relative to saying this is a contractor`s bag.
GRACE: Got it.
MORGAN: Remember, if we were looking for something with ties, or indwelling ties or tie handles, that would be also a method that we would
try to narrow the search down to...
GRACE: Got it. Let`s see a shot of the bag again. With me, Professor Joseph Scott Morgan from JSU, Laura Crimaldi, reporter with "The
Boston Globe."
Matt Zarrell, what more can you tell me about the way the little girl was found? It`s really difficult for me to believe that of four years on
this earth, nobody knows this little girl.
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Yes, exactly, Nancy. Now, this woman was walking her dog on the shores of Deer Island
when she found the body. The body was found near the base of the island, near where a causeway from the mainland joins the island. It`s about 200
yards from the end of the causeway.
And the cops -- most importantly, Nancy, the cops are still working on cause of death. That`s going to tell us a big part of what happened to
this child.
GRACE: OK. Hold on right there. Very, very important. If you can look at a body and you don`t know the cause of death -- to Dr. Bill Manion,
forensic pathologist out of Philly. Dr. Manion, that says to me she was not shot, she was not stabbed, she may have gotten a blow under the hair,
where you couldn`t see it at first blush.
But it sounds like a drowning or an asphyxiation if you can`t just look at the body and determine cause of death, Dr. Manion.
DR. BILL MANION, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST (via telephone): Yes, I would agree with that. Suffocation or drowning are possibilities. And they will
X-ray the body first to make sure there`s no skull fracture or any object - - sometimes a small bullet within the body. They`ll do that first to rule that out.
GRACE: With me, Steve Loftin is a supervisor at forensic imaging department at NCMEC, National Center for Missing and Exploited Children.
Steve, thank you so much for being with us. How did this image come about, the image of this 4-year-old little girl?
Everyone, look at this child. Her body has washed ashore like a bag of trash. Her body was thrown into the water. She hasn`t been in the
water for long. Police say there was moisture in the bag. But she is not -- her body is not waterlogged. She is not skeletonized. That says to me
she did not come from far away.
And we`re going to talk to you about the currents in the water in just a moment, where this child may have come from. But with me, Steve Loftin.
How did you come up with this image of this little girl, Steve?
STEVE LOFTIN, FORENSIC IMAGING DEPT. NCMEC (via telephone): Well, Nancy, we use a program called Adobe Photoshop. And what we do is create a
composite of what we think the child may look like. And all this is based on the information we get from the medical examiners and the morgue
photographs that we use.
And based on that information, again, we apply photographic references for each individual parts of the face, and then we can manipulate those
references to come up with what we think the child might look like, based on the information from the medical examiner.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Danny Cevallos, New York, Darryl Cohen out of Atlanta, former prosecutor.
Darryl Cohen, when he is saying we take it from a morgue photo -- I`ll never forget the first time as a prosecutor, my first murder case, I opened
the file and saw the morgue photo. It was a Polaroid. It looked nothing like what you would imagine a person would look like in life. There`s no
way you can make an identification from that morgue photo of the body.
So I am imagining, with this child having been in the water even for a day -- let`s just say it was a day -- to take the morgue photo, you would
have to do some type of recreation of what she would look like in life.
[20:10:10]So even though there`s a photo, that doesn`t mean you can use that photo to get a positive ID.
DARRYL COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Oh, clearly, Nancy, they`re going to have to Photoshop it. They don`t know exactly what they`re looking at.
They probably know the hair color, and based on what they have, they`re doing the best they can. And this is tough. This is very difficult.
And my question is, did this body get thrown off -- did this little child get thrown off or was she -- did she leave from a ship or a boat?
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait. Your question is what, Darryl Cohen?
COHEN: How did she get there? Was she thrown off the side or did she -- was she thrown from a boat? How did this child end up there? That, to
me, is very telling.
GRACE: Well, the one thing I know is that it`s no accident.
COHEN: Oh, clearly.
GRACE: Because if this were an accident, she didn`t get inside a trash bag and have an accidental death. And if her death had been an
accident, 911 would have been called, or she would have been rushed to the hospital or doctor, if there were an accident.
So there`s no doubt in my mind that this is a murder of a 4-year-old little girl, and I`m going to find out who this girl is. And after I find
out that, I`m going to find out who killed her and disposed of her body in this manner.
Matt Zarrell and Laura Crimaldi, I want to go through the facts of her discovery again. Now, the woman walking her dog has been cleared. Very
often, you look at who found the body. This woman legitimately was out walking her dog and got the shock of a lifetime when she finds this little
girl`s body washed ashore at Deer Island in an industrial black trash bag.
Let`s go through it, Laura Crimaldi with me, "Boston Globe." What do we know about the time the body was found?
CRIMALDI: So one thing to note before we get there is that it is also possible that she was dropped off on Deer Island. Officials haven`t ruled
out the possibility that someone accessed Deer Island by land. So if you...
GRACE: That`s actually a really good point, Laura. Put Laura back up, please. Laura Crimaldi joining me from "Boston Globe." Let`s go --
let`s explore what she just said because Darryl Cohen`s first thought, Was she thrown off a boat? Was she dropped off a bridge? Did she wash ashore
from, say, 100 miles away, 50, 10, 5 miles away? But listen to Laura`s theory. Laura Crimaldi joining us.
Repeat that, if you don`t mind, Laura.
CRIMALDI: So what investigators have said is that they`re not sure whether this young girl was left on Deer Island by someone who accessed the
area by land or by sea. Deer Island is a place where there`s a large water treatment plant that serves all of eastern Massachusetts...
GRACE: Let`s see that map.
CRIMALDI: ... and then is also a place where people go to ride bikes, to go fishing, to take walks, jogging. There`s a roadway that goes up to a
guard shack that protects the wastewater treatment plant, and the roadway is open all the time because the plant is open 24 hours a day, seven days a
week. So there`s always some road access to that plant.
And then also, there`s pathways that circle around the entire perimeter of the island that are always open to the public.
GRACE: OK. So let`s see the map again. Laura Crimaldi is bringing up the theory, which is not out of the realm of possibility -- it`s
actually a very good practical theory.
Let me see the map again, please. How did this little girl end up on this shore? Our immediate thought, was she thrown off a boat? Was she
thrown off a bridge somewhere else? Did her body drift to the shore? Or as Laura is hypothesizing -- look at this road, plant entrance, walking
trail, wastewater treatment plant -- did someone come along this road and simply dump her body there?
Who is this little girl? Why is no one identifying her? Tip line, 508-820-2121.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:18:23]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Massachusetts police are asking for help in identifying a toddler whose body washed ashore along the Boston Harbor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The woman who led the police here, that was the woman that was distraught. She was showing them where something happened.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Officials have released this computer-generated sketch of the girl. They say she was about 4 years old, brown hair, brown
eyes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back, everyone. Please help us identify this 4-year- old little girl. There is no doubt in my mind that this child was murdered. Her body has washed ashore off Deer Island. How did it get
there? She was in an industrial-type black trash bag. It was sealed. There was moisture in the bag, but the bag was not full of water, we don`t
believe.
What does that mean? What, if anything? Her body was not skeletonized. As of tonight, no one has identified this child. Who would
kill this child, then throw her body off the side of a boat, off the side of a bridge, or simply leave it to be found on an open stretch of beach?
You know, it seems to me, Laura Crimaldi with "The Boston Globe," that no one would have just dropped the bag out on the beach and taken off.
It`s my theory the bag was placed where the perp thought it would not be discovered, but yet it ultimately got in the water and ended up on the
beach. I don`t think it was just dropped on the beach because, clearly, it would have been found that way.
[20:20:00]CRIMALDI: Well, one of the things about Deer Island that it has a very extensive camera system, but the cameras only cover the plant.
So the plant is located at the far end of the island, and where the body was found is closer to the entrance. And officials at the Massachusetts
Water Resources Authority, which operate that plant, have said they do not have any surveillance images from that section of the island that could
give investigators some clues.
GRACE: Got it. You know, the thing it might do is show cars going by, and you could get a tag number off of a car, if it`s enhanced. I don`t
know how much that`s going to help.
But why is it, Matt Zarrell, that police believe she was placed there recently?
ZARRELL: Well, what they do is, is because they think the body was there for a day or two, based on the condition of the body and the fact
that it was a well-traveled area. They also believe, Nancy, that while the body had been there for day or two, it had been deceased not much longer
than that.
GRACE: You know, interesting. I`m going to go to Dr. Bill Manion on that. One thing -- babies have their footprints taken in the hospital.
I`ve long advocated that, right then, when a child is born, they should have a fingerprint taken for reasons just like this. So you`re not going
to be able to get a set of footprints.
But Dr. Manion, what about prints off that plastic bag, even though it may have been in the water?
MANION: No, that`s still possible. And they will use some enhancing techniques, and absolutely, there will be a good chance of getting
fingerprints off that bag. The fingerprints will have fatty oils in them, and the water will not dissolve the fat. The fat will remain on the
plastic.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The search for this little girl`s name goes on, a little girl found in a trash bag on the shoreline of Deer Island. And so,
too, does the search for whoever is responsible.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Inside that bag, her little body was wrapped in this fleece blanket.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sold at Kmart.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And she was wearing these clean leggings.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Made by Circo and sold at Target.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:26:01]GRACE: Who is this 4-year-old little toddler girl? A girl`s body washes ashore at Deer Island. This is a composite created by
National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, based on the facts that they have -- the length of the body, the weight of the body, the length of
the hair, the skin color, the color of the hair, the color of the eyes. You take the child`s weight and then distribute it to the length of the
body to determine the build of the child. You look at the teeth and other markings to determine the age of the child.
Look at this little girl. Until we know who she is, she cannot be properly buried. And until we know who she is, whoever killed her cannot
be put in jail. Somewhere tonight, somebody is watching this program, and they know that as of tonight, this child has not been identified and they
walk free another 24 hours.
When did this child go missing? When was she killed? How was she killed? Who threw her into the water in an industrial trash bag? This is
the location where a woman walking her dog finds the little girl`s body. Tip line, 508-820-2121.
Matt Zarrell, I`ve heard so much about the moisture inside the bag, but police very carefully did not say she was waterlogged or that the bag
was full of water. Can you explain that to me?
ZARRELL: Yes. So this goes back to whether the girl`s body washed up on the shore or was left there by someone who had gone to the island. Now,
the cops say there was some -- and they didn`t specify how much -- some moisture in the bag, but they don`t know if it`s from the tide coming up on
the beach and into the bag, or from the bag being submerged. And they haven`t ruled out either. They`re also waiting on toxicology and autopsy
reports.
GRACE: So actually, Laura Crimaldi`s theory, one of her theories, could be correct, that the body was just thrown off the side of that
walkway, kind of like a bridge or the edge of the island, down into the rocks or the beach, and the tide coming in and out could have gotten into
the bag. It is not indicative of the bag being out in the water.
With me right now, the founder of the National Academy of Police Diving, Michael Gast. Michael, welcome. And what can you tell me about
the tides? If she had been submerged in this bag, if she were thrown in the water, from where could the bag have come?
MICHAEL GAST, NATIONAL ACADEMY OF POLICE DIVING (via telephone): Well, the tidal influence is basically an in-and-out influence. And as the
water comes in, it`s bring pushed (ph) in. As it`s going out, it is being toughed (ph) out. And as far as the little bit of water in the bag, a
plastic bag could get that water in the bag from just sitting on the rocks and rubbing and get a little pinhole or something, or even from the change
in temperature.
But as far as the tidal influences, just an in-and-out influence, and the narrowest sections have the greatest influence of the tidal movement.
GRACE: Everyone, you are seeing the scene where the body was found. Who is this girl? Why was she killed? Who killed her? Tonight, help us
solve this mystery. Tip line, 508-820-2121.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Live to San Francisco bay, "Dad, help me. Help me, daddy." Tonight, a father heartbroken, describing the final moments, his daughter
shot dead on San Francisco pier, by an illegal immigrant that had already been deported five times. Tonight, we want justice.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kathryn Steinle, mortally wounded, fatally shot around 6:30 as she strolled down the pedestrian pier with her father.
GRACE: The fact that it was a random act makes it no less violent. To Dan Simons, CNN correspondent, joining me at the scene of the shooting.
Let`s just start at the beginning. I already know the guy had been deported five times and somehow, kept coming right back over the border. Dan Simon,
let`s start with the shooting. What happened?
DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we hear exactly from the suspect what happened. In this jailhouse interview, he says he is near this popular
tourist area and he goes through a dumpster. And guess what, he says he finds sleeping pills and takes them. He comes over to this area, Nancy, and
then he is near a bench and he says he finds a gun literally wrapped in a t-shirt and as he takes the gun out, the gun accidentally goes off. Now,
that`s his side of the story.
GRACE: Dan, Dan.
SIMON: Yeah.
GRACE: Hold on, please. Dan, so, he accidentally finds sleeping pills and eats them all. Then he accidentally finds a gun and it accidentally
goes off three times?
SIMON: That`s what he is saying. Obviously, it`s a very suspect story, but you know, that`s what he is saying. You know, it`s such a heartbreaking
story. Here this, father is with his daughter on one of the most scenic places in San Francisco, going for a stroll on this pier. Thousands of
people come here every single day. It`s such a safe place, Nancy. This is the place where you kind of want to come in and take in the scenery, take
in the San Francisco bay. And to think that just like that, this young woman`s life was taken away, it`s incomprehensible.
GRACE: Dan Simons, CNN correspondent, joining me at the scene of the shooting. Now, Dan Simon, you have told me that this is the victim. Look at
her. She is beautiful, full of life, walking along, arm in arm with her father, but she starts saying, "Daddy, daddy, help me. Help me." And he
watches as his daughter sinks to the ground. Dan Simon, when you`ve told me what happened, according to the shooter, the perpetrator. Let`s hear the
dad`s side. What does he say happen?
SIMON: At first, he didn`t know what happened. He just saw his daughter collapse and she was saying, "Help me." I mean, you don`t think
that out of nowhere, your daughter`s just going to get shot. So, he helps her on the ground. He starts performing CPR. People are taking pictures of
this guy as he is running away, which was helpful to police. Next thing you know, an ambulance pulls up. They are giving her CPR, the paramedics and
she is rushed to the hospital and a short time later, she dies.
GRACE: How many times was she shot and what if anything, provoked the incident?
SIMON: She was shot just once. Single gunshot pierced her aorta, Nancy. What provoked this? You know, we can`t say. We know that what the
suspect is saying, that he just found this gun. Incidentally, we should point out that he originally told the police, at least according to
reports, that he was aiming at sea lions. So first, he says he is aiming at sea lions and then he changes his story saying the gun just went off. Now,
this is a guy who has seven felony convictions, has been deported five times to his native Mexico. So, doesn`t have a whole lot of credibility,
obviously.
GRACE: OK. Right there, Dan Simon, if he wandered on to the pier under the influence of sleeping pills that he found and says the shooting was an
accident, then how does that jive with his story that he came to the pier to shoot at sea lions, which in itself is a crime? But those two don`t fit,
can`t be an accident and he came there on purpose to shoot sea lions?
SIMON: Yeah. I mean, obviously, those two stories don`t gel. He is telling one thing to police and then he is telling another thing to a
reporter during this jailhouse interview. The guy obviously, Nancy, has zero credibility, given his past and now, just going to be up to police to
figure out who is telling the truth. In recent year, the city has taken a more aggressive stance when it comes to illegal immigrants. The sheriff
basically says that even if you present what`s called a detainer, you say, you know what, I want you to hold onto this guy because we think he is bad.
The sheriff says, you know what, we`re going to let him go because we`re not going to do.
GRACE: What sheriff?
SIMON: The job.
GRACE: What sheriff is that? There has, we`re going to let him go.
SIMON: This is the San Francisco sheriff, Ross Mirkarimi. It`s a controversial policy, no doubt, but it`s one that other cities also have
throughout the U.S. but.
GRACE: Oh, wait.
SIMON: The bottom line is they.
GRACE: Are you telling me, Dan Simon -- and Dan, it`s not about you, but are you telling me that the sheriff of San Francisco`s theory is that
this is done all over. But you know what, Dan, just because it is done does not mean it should be done. And I`m not talking about hard-working
immigrants, as he is describing himself, coming to look for a job, all right? Because my relatives were hard-working immigrants, they came here to
look for a job. I`m talking about people like this guy with seven felonies under his belt and the San Francisco sheriff lets him stay there so he can
kill this girl? Is that what I understand? Is that correct?
SIMON: You`re expressing the indignation that many people are feeling today, Nancy. No question about it. But what the sheriff is saying is that
this guy was arrested on an old drug charge that the D.A. declined to prosecute. So the sheriff looked in the system, saw no more warrants for
this guy, there was this detention from the federal authorities, but he said...
GRACE: Did -- Dan, did you say.
SIMON: This is our policy. We are going let you go.
GRACE: Dan, again, I`m not arguing with you, I`m arguing at the sheriff. Are you saying the sheriff goes, it`s just drug charges? It`s just
drug charges?
SIMON: Right. You know, the D.A. declined to prosecute. So essentially, yes, they are saying this is somebody who is not a so-called
violent criminal who poses a huge risk to the community at that particular moment. So the sheriff, using his own discretion, using the law, if you
will, said we going to let this guy go.
GRACE: You mean twisting the law? You mean twisting the law? And I don`t mean that he has to stay in jail for a minor drug offense. That`s not
what I`m saying. I`m saying why is he staying in this country with seven felony convictions, all right? That`s what I`m saying. And why doesn`t this
sheriff have the backbone to get rid of these people that have convictions that need to be in a jail in their country, not walking along the San
Francisco pier to kill Kate Steinle.
Joining me now is Henry Lee, renowned reporter with the San Francisco Chronicle. Henry, what more do we know?
HENRY LEE, SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE REPORTER: Well, at this point, we do know from the police department that this is a completely unfortunate,
random killing. Where the suspect, according to his potentially self- serving statement, claims he was out shooting seals, alternatively found a gun in a shirt and accidentally fired. This poor woman, walking with her
father, just moments after sending a nice picture of the two of them to her mother is ultimately shot and killed, just at the prime of her life, just
32-years-old.
GRACE: You know, the big mystery to me, we just heard Henry Lee tell us exactly what happened. But the big mystery to me is not who done it, but
why this guy, why Juan Francisco Lopez Sanchez was in our country. With me right now, a renowned immigration lawyer out of Miami is Nera Shefer. Nera,
thank you so much for being with us, he had been deported five times. Why was he back?
NERA SHEFER, IMMIGRATION LAWYER: Hi, Nancy and thank you for having me. Well, unfortunately, many undocumented individuals do not comply with
our immigration laws on the orders of deportation and they either remain here in the shadow or they come right back to the border. I believe the way
to rectify this issue is by congress issuing immigration laws that will secure effectively our border and keep us safe. You know, somehow, we have
made some progress on securing the border, but the border is still not secure, Nancy, and that`s why they are coming right back after being
deported.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) GRACE: Did a 26-year-old mom, dump her helpless baby daughter still
strapped in a car seat on the road at midnight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don`t know if this child was tossed out of a vehicle,
we don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As we got really close to it, there was a child that was in the seat.
(END VIDEO CLIP) GRACE: According to what this pastor says, it sounds as if the child, still
strapped in a car seat, was in the road when he and his wife were driving along around midnight. They pull over to the side of the road and she is,
in fact, strapped in the car seat, on the road -- with me, special guest, Lieutenant TJ Smith. Lieutenant, thank you so much for being with us, with
the Anne Arundel County Police Department. What can you tell me about the placement of the car seat?
LT. TJ SMITH, ANNE ARUNDEL COUNTY POLICE DEPARTMENT: So it was in the roadway. They were in the actual roadway. This is a side street to a
residential community, doesn`t make it any better. But this was a 6-week- old child that was left out there on the side of this roadway. And to explain those scuff marks, early indication, we thought the baby could have
been tossed out or fallen out of the vehicle, but we think that might have been normal wear and tear. But we do know that she basically placed that
baby down and left that baby there and that was very trouble and concerning to us initially.
GRACE: You know what, lieutenant -- Lieutenant TJ Smith with me from the Anne Arundel County Police Department. Lieutenant, who cares? Who cares
about the scuff marks? Who cares? Bottom line is mommy puts the baby, strapped in a car seat at midnight on the roadway. And there`s mommy, all
right? No need to look glum and sad now, mommy. You`re busted. Another thing we want to talk about is what we learn from the 911 call. With me,
Lieutenant TJ Smith, Millersville and Sarah Westwood from Washington Examiner, let`s hear the 911.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have a problem here. And it`s a baby in our street and no one`s around and the baby just steady crying. About two
months old.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And there`s no one around?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No one at all. She`s in a stroller. We don`t want anybody to run over her. She`s out in the street.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s in the road?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In the road. My pastor was coming down the street and he saw it out in the road and he called, you know called me. I`ll let
you hear her cry. You hear her crying?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah. Does she look injured?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Huh?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Does she look like she`s hurt?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
(END VIDEO CLIP) GRACE: Did you? She heard that in the road. Unleash the lawyers. Danny
Cevallos, Darryl Cohen. And Danny Cevallos, this is not child abandonment. This is attempted murder. To leave a baby strapped in the car seat in the
road at midnight. I`m telling you, there was an angel in that car with that pastor that he was the one that found that baby. What if it was a trucker
that just, boom, right over the baby, or what if some child predator got the baby. There are video circulating online all the time of people
molesting infants, this young, even on video. I mean, it was a miracle this child was found. This is attempted murder Cevallos.
DANNY CEVALLOS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Once again, Nancy, you make a good point, but then you go and overcharge. Is it reckless in danger in?
Probably there`s strong case for that. But attempted murder requires that specific, high level of intent to kill. Was it reckless? It sure looks like
it. But attempted murder is the highest level of intent.
GRACE: Whoa, wait a minute.
CEVALLOS: And all you have is you have abandoned baby.
GRACE: Look at your monitor. Look at your monitor. How much mug shot does this woman have? And another thing --
CEVALLOS: What does that have to do with it?
GRACE: Can I ask you a question?
CEVALLOS: You know. You just did.
GRACE: How many homicides have you actually defended in court that went to trial, and you were first seat. Don`t care.
CEVALLOS: I have defended -- I know you`re expecting me to say none. I have first chaired plenty of homicides.
GRACE: Plenty, as in.
CEVALLOS: Probably, not as many as you. But what is your question?
GRACE: That is my question, so you don`t know. And have you ever tried an attempted murder case? Attempted murder?
CEVALLOS: Yes, yes, I have. What is your question, Nancy?
GRACE: That is my question. And what was the outcome of that case, your attempted murder defense?
CEVALLOS: I`ve had more than one attempted murder case. I`ve won some and I`ve lost some.
GRACE: Well, that was evasive, but I`m going to go with that. Lieutenant TJ Smith, question to you, what`s one good reason this woman
should not be charged with attempted murder? She straps the baby in the car seat, leaves it in the middle of the road, on the road, in the middle of
the night, there`s no way to say the baby was on the side of the road, as if that makes a difference because you hear on the 911 call, Lieutenant
Smith, the baby`s left in the road.
SMITH: Yeah, we worked with -- our state`s attorney office actually worked hand in hand with us, and they were out there as a part of this
investigation. And again, attempted murder is a different level of intent involved in it. And in this case, absolute reckless endangerment, absolute
neglect and you know, it could be eventually be child abuse charges brought --
GRACE: Eventually.
SMITH: No, no.
GRACE: Eventually, how would you like to be strapped in a car seat and left in the middle of the road at midnight for some trucker to come along
in an 18-wheeler? Do you think he`s going to see you? Uh-uh, he`ll think he hit a rock in the road. He`ll never know, much less an infant child. And
what are all those mug shots? Matt Zarrell, what are all these mug shots of mommy? What is it?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE SHOW PRODUCER: Well.
GRACE: What?
ZARRELL: OK. So mommy`s got -- yeah, mommy`s got a couple arrests, including assault, and mommy is on trial right now, prepared to go to trial
for armed robbery. Apparently, she allegedly held up a couple liquor stores.
GRACE: Put up Cevallos and Cohen, put them up. And let`s get Cason in the mix. He`s a psychologist, Greg Cason. All right, Daryl Cohen. Liquor
stores.
DARRYL COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy.
GRACE: Armed robbery and you want to tell me what? It was an accident?
COHEN: I didn`t say it was an accident. She`s obviously not a poster child, but this is not attempted murder.
GRACE: That certainly could a (inaudible).
COHEN: But having said that. Nancy having said that, if that child had been killed, it would have jumped immediately to murder, but what this
woman did, maybe she had postpartum, she`s obviously not a good person.
GRACE: What she did an armed robbery on a liquor store? OK, you know what? You have a JD, right? Let`s go to somebody with an MD. Greg Cason,
psychologist, Greg, explain to me how robbing liquor store or leaving your child in the middle of the road, strapped in a car seat, can`t even crawl
away, is postpartum. And she was just diagnosed by Darryl Cohen, a defense lawyer. Go ahead.
GREG CASON, PH.D., PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, I`ll say in his defense, postpartum could play a role here, but that wasn`t my first.
GRACE: No, I`m going to just shoot my toe.
CASON: Definitely not. Now, hold on. Because definitely this woman, if she`s an armed robber, you`re right, Nancy, that she -- we might suspect
that she has.
GRACE: Of a liquor store.
CASON: Yes. And the fact -- and she could be an addict, that`s true, too. But it could just be an easy mark. The fact is that she also believed
on her husband.
GRACE: Oh, oh, and the liquor store robbery was before the baby. That doesn`t really fit too neatly in.
CASON: Right.
GRACE: With your postpartum depression theory, Dr. Cason.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) GRACE: Let`s remember American hero, Army Sergeant 1st Class Clarence D.
McSwain, just 31, Meridian, Mississippi. Bronze Star; Purple Heart; Army Commendation Medal; a high school football star; honor student; leaves
behind wife, Kendrah; children, Krista, Jakayla, Jasmine, and Kenneth; Parents, Theodis and Sandra; Siblings, David, Ashley, Kimberly, and
Christopher. Clarence D. McSwain, American hero.
Drew up next with an interview with a mom whose child takes a brutal belt beating. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8 o`clock sharp, eastern, until
then. Good night, friend.
END
