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Iran Nuclear Deadline Looms, Roadblocks to Deal Remain; What Will Merkel Do?; From Bosnia to the Centre Court; Imagine a World. Aired 2-2:30p ET
Aired July 10, 2015 - 14:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN HOST (voice-over): Tonight: deadline time in Europe as the clock ticks down in Athens for a deal on Greece's economy;
while negotiators work ATC in Vienna to seek a nuclear agreement with Iran. We speak to the major players.
Plus from the snipers and shells of Bosnia to the serves and volley on Centre Court, the incredible journey of Ivan Ljubicic, from war to
AMANPOUR: Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the special weekend edition of our program. I'm Christiane Amanpour.
All eyes were focused on the European capitals this week as two vital negotiations ran parallel.
In Athens, the Greek government has until this weekend to come up with new proposals to solve its debt crisis, having asked for a third bailout. Now
after a resounding "no" vote rejected the last set of E.U. austerity proposals, European leaders are left asking, well, what now?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR (voice-over): While in Vienna, deadline after deadline on vital talks about controlling Iran's nuclear program have come and gone. A deal
is reportedly close but there are also claims of frayed tempers and harsh words across the table. We've been following both stories closely and in a
moment a view from Angela Merkel's party on Greece and what it means for Germany, what it means for her legacy.
But first, our exclusive interview with Federica Mogherini, the E.U. foreign policy chief, who joined us from the nuclear talks in Vienna.
AMANPOUR: Welcome back to the program, Ms. Mogherini.
What is going on?
FEDERICA MOGHERINI, E.U. FOREIGN POLICY CHIEF: Thank you. Thank you, Christiane.
It's going on that -- first of all, let me thank you very much for this invitation. It's a pleasure to be back and it's a critical time indeed.
It's a critical time because we have put a lot of very detailed texts on the table. The negotiating teams are working literally day and night,
since months actually, but in the last weeks in an incredible way. And now we have a couple of highly political issues on which decisions need to be
So indeed, this is the time.
AMANPOUR: So political issues, not technical issues.
So tell me, what are the political issues?
MOGHERINI: You will understand that, in this critical time, I will not go into the issues that are open for negotiations. This is because the time
is crucial but also for my role, my role is to protect, to facilitate the process, the negotiation and to try to make sure that this brings to a
result if a result is possible and a good one.
But I can tell you that talks are sometimes, yes, heated; that's normal. But the work of the teams and of the ministers is very constructive and has
produced, as I said, a lot of detailed already technical texts, which are not only technical, also political.
So we are as close as we could get and we've never been that close. And I think everybody now is extremely committed.
MOGHERINI: Everybody understands what is at stake. Still as both ministers, you've heard before, have said, decisions need to be taken now.
AMANPOUR: Well, let me ask you about the tempers and the heated discussions. There's a report -- I'm sure you've seen it in "The Wall
Street Journal" -- that suggests both the foreign secretaries, Kerry and Zarif, shouting at each other.
And not only that, you threatening to leave and Mr. Zarif saying, hey, don't threaten an Iranian.
Is that true?
MOGHERINI: You know, you wouldn't expect an Iranian and an Italian negotiating in a cold way. That is, I would say, part of our culture. And
it is quite normal that after 22 months of this process and in the very last days -- hours, hopefully -- of this process, the tensions sometimes
get heated, yes.
So sometimes we have heated exchanges. But mutual respect is always there. This also means to me that the relationship is open and frank and based on
mutual respect. As it happens in relationships that are open and frank and based on mutual respect, you say things as you think them and this doesn't
mean that you don't work together in a constructive way.
On the contrary, sometimes we have that kind of exchanges. But then this allows us to move forward, to overcome some misunderstandings or some
obstacles and then to go to the drafting because, at the end of the day, it's better to be, again, open and to tackle the issues as they are, which
means difficult and historical and important, and then move forward. Sometimes it's needed.
AMANPOUR: President Obama is reported to have said to his team and to Congress people in the United States that the chances now are less than 50-
50. You know, there was meant to be some kind of an announcement by midnight tonight or tomorrow.
Is that likely to happen?
MOGHERINI: It is still possible. It is still possible. I would not give numbers because, as I said, we are very close. But if the important
historical political decisions are not made in the next hours, we won't have an agreement.
On the other side, it's very clear for everybody that making that difficult decisions in one week, two weeks, three weeks from now will not be easier.
It will be much more difficult for everybody.
So you know, difficult to say, under 50 percent, more than 50 percent. It's not -- that's not a game. But we are close and it is possible. And I
think everybody understands the responsibilities, I would say the historic responsibilities that everybody sitting around this table today has, which
is building trust among partners, among countries that have not had relations for a long time, building trust possibly in a region that is
affected by many conflicts and tensions and most of all building one historical non-proliferation, nuclear non-proliferation agreement that
would make the region and the world much more secure.
AMANPOUR: We'll be watching very closely and we appreciate your coming to talk to us today, Federica Mogherini, the E.U. High Representative and
foreign policy chief, thank you for joining us from the talks in Vienna.
AMANPOUR: Philipp Missfelder, welcome to the program.
PHILIPP MISSFELDER, GERMAN POLITICIAN: Thank you so much.
AMANPOUR: Things are getting dire for Greece but very dire for Angela Merkel.
Is that not true?
Absolutely. We are naturally on the situation because we as Germans always wanted to have the euro and we want to keep it like it is. But Greece may
give us a hard time and it becomes more and more difficult by every hour.
AMANPOUR: Let's just stick with the problems that Chancellor Merkel is facing. She's in a tough spot, the public is very, very anti-Greece, more
than ever. The "Bild" cover, the magazine, "What now, chancellor?" it asks.
And "Der Spiegel," with Merkel sitting atop the ruins in Greece, if the euro fails, Merkel's chancellorship fails.
Is it that bad?
MISSFELDER: No, the euro will not fail but we will do everything and that it is not happening. The problem with Greece is separated from the
problems we are facing in Italy or in other countries in the periphery; also the economic weakness of France is nothing which is related to Greece
but in fact it is a big challenge right now.
And again, we want to keep the euro like it is today and therefore Greece has to come back to the table.
AMANPOUR: I know; we've been hearing this; more and more officials have become sterner and sterner, particularly now with this new deadline this
week. But you say the euro won't fail.
Well, Greece might leave the euro.
Is that a failure?
MISSFELDER: It is not a failure of the whole currency but we don't want to have it happen --
MISSFELDER: -- because I think there will be a lot of collateral damage also for the German economy. So everybody will pay at the end, not only
the Greeks, so also the rest of the Eurogroup, maybe the whole continent.
And therefore we are convinced that everything keeping together is still the best option.
AMANPOUR: Do you think there's going to be a deal -- and let me just say this; Reuters' poll of economists, this latest one, now says the
probability of Greece leaving the Eurozone is at 55 percent.
MISSFELDER: That's extremely high. But it's never too late in politics. So they have the chance also after this bad referendum to come back to the
table and to negotiate with us.
AMANPOUR: Has your government, has your party, has your chancellor treated Greece unfairly and too harshly? Many people think so.
MISSFELDER: I know that many people think so, but and Tsipras should go back to the people from Estonia, for example, or Slovakia, Slovenia. Many
Eastern and Central European countries suffered much more than Greece did and they did their homework.
So at the same time, saying this to Greek officials since quite a while, we don't -- we have to make one point here to the international audience:
Germany does not believe that you can create economic growth just by austerity. Austerity is not the solution for every problem but it is
exactly not the same with spending.
Spending and quantitative easing can't be the solution. So you need both. You need the QE measures of the ECB. You need substance and in the
reforms, in the infrastructure sector, in the whole institutional sector of Greece. You need reforms and then you can also talk about a potential
haircut also, but not a haircut in only quantitative easing that's definitely not the solution for Greece.
AMANPOUR: Philipp Missfelder, spokesman for the CDU foreign policy, thank you very much indeed for joining us.
AMANPOUR: And after a break, as the world this weekend commemorates 20 years since the massacre at Srebrenica, a sporting life born out of the
Bosnian War, Ivan Ljubicic on his career and the Balkan invasion that's taken tennis by storm -- when we come back.
AMANPOUR: Welcome back to the program.
This weekend marks the finals of the Wimbledon tennis championships here in England and also the 20th anniversary of the Srebrenica massacre that
turned the tide of the Bosnian War.
What's the connection?
Well, world number 1 Novak Djokovic and the staggeringly successful post- war wave of tennis talent from that region. Ivan Ljubicic was born the son of a Croat and a Muslim and he was just 13 when he fled Bosnia, first to a
refugee camp in Croatia and then to a prestigious tennis academy in Italy.
And on he went to become number 3 in the world, right behind Federer and Nadal.
I sat down with him at Wimbledon this week to talk about the war and --
AMANPOUR: -- why it's produced a generation of tennis aces.
AMANPOUR: It is this weekend the 20th anniversary of the massacre at Srebrenica, 20 years since the Bosnian War. You were just a young boy
What do you remember from living through that?
IVAN LJUBICIC, TENNIS WORLD NUMBER 3: Well, I was 13 when I had to leave my home and, of course, like all other families and kids who left home, the
ordeal was a couple of months then we come back when the situation kind of normalized a little bit.
But moving on, living my life, I realized actually how big of a deal that was and it was -- I never came back. That's the truth.
AMANPOUR: Were you there at -- during some of the war?
LJUBICIC: I was there in '91, end of '92, the beginning of '92. That was when I was spending time in Banja Luka; being a son of a Croatian and
Muslim, it wasn't the place to be. And it wasn't the most comfortable --
AMANPOUR: Because that was the Serb stronghold really.
LJUBICIC: -- yes, it was a Serb stronghold. I had to go to play tennis. I had to go into the city where we were living a little bit outside of the
city. And that moment they blocked the city with barricades and military - - well, they were not really military but with the machine guns and stuff. So I couldn't really go to practice anymore.
And that was when my father actually realized that it's time to move and leave our house.
AMANPOUR: And then you left. You went to Turin. You went to Italy.
LJUBICIC: First I went to Croatia as a refugee and we actually got kicked out of refugee camp, which is really as low as you can get. And then in
1993, I moved to Italy, in Turin.
AMANPOUR: How did you continue to play when you got to Italy? You were this unknown boy, practically a refugee.
LJUBICIC: Yes. The club, this club in Italy in Turin actually was sending letters to -- they were inviting people from around the world and from
Bosnia as well to kind of take kids, who they can stay in the club and practice for free, which was great. And I was one of them and I was just
lucky enough to be in that part of the group.
And we were just playing all day. I was sleeping in the club. I was living in the club. I didn't speak the language so I couldn't really go to
school. So I was just spending all days on tennis court.
AMANPOUR: Was it hard emotionally.
LJUBICIC: It was very hard, especially the first year, it was very, very hard. I was 14 years old. For everything what was going on also back
home, I knew that my parents were struggling financially. It was -- but I knew that I had this chance to actually help the family. And I was
something that they were hoping that can lift our lifestyle and I was, of course, very happy and lucky to manage to do so.
AMANPOUR: At one point you reached number 3 in the world, behind Federer and Nadal.
How was that for you?
LJUBICIC: That was -- I felt like I made it. That was -- I remember we actually -- I don't know if players were actually do that, but I celebrated
that number 3 ranking, because I felt I was number 1 in the world in that moment. Federer and then Nadal were so far ahead. They were untouchable
in those times. I know that kids, playing 18-20 years old now, they don't see them. But in those years, 2005-2006, Nadal and Federer were something
And I remember actually celebrating with a dinner that moment, reaching number 3 in the world. And together with Davis Cup win-- of course in
2005 -- were absolutely the highlights of my career.
AMANPOUR: How do you explain, given everything you've just talked about, the enormous number of tennis players who've made it big, people who were
here, people who've gone to the other Grand Slams, who are from the former Yugoslavia, Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia?
LJUBICIC: Well, I think Goran Ivanisevic is really the person who, in those years, in 1992, he played the first Wimbledon final and it was a very
emotional moment for all the kids who were between 10 and 18.
AMANPOUR: He was the tall Croat.
LJUBICIC: He was the tall Croat, very charismatic, very interesting to watch. And everybody was looking at him and wanted to be at his place and
loving tennis because of him. He was a little crazy. I mean, he was very, very interesting character.
And a lot of people and kids actually started to play tennis because of him. And he was my idol and he was an idol of many, many other players
from that region to play. And it -- he was the beginning of what we have now, because we have so many players in Wimbledon this year, competing in
the second week.
AMANPOUR: Ivanovic has said that there's something about having been born out of that war, something about having to prove yourself and to make it
without all the money that perhaps Americans or others get as they're coming up through the ranks, that made you all work harder.
LJUBICIC: Well, I think it does -- you do have it inside you. You do know that the tragedy already happened, that the worst thing that can happen in
your life already happened. So you do have that way of trying harder and believing and without looking back.
You know, there are no other options. And I think everybody coming from that region, maybe the war, yes, but maybe not. I think the people from
that area, from that region, they just try harder. And not only in tennis, but in all other sports.
AMANPOUR: Djokovic from Serbia is the world number 1 and has been for a long time.
AMANPOUR: And not only is he an amazing tennis player but he seems to have changed the image that Serbia had. He's the post-Milosevic generation.
LJUBICIC: Yes. Well, he's trying hard, it has to be said, really, to bring Serbia on the positive side of the map. He's trying very, very hard
and it's -- I think he's the best thing that's happened to Serbia in the last 25 years, absolutely.
AMANPOUR: Do you think there's a burden on people like him and others of you who've come from there?
LJUBICIC: Well, I think every single one of us has his own story, has his own life and Djokovic is younger than me. When he was -- I think he was
like 5 or 6 when those things were happening so I'm not sure how much he was affected of the war directly.
But for sure people are still talking about it. And this is one thing that really bothers me, that 20 years after, we are still talking about where
were you in 1992; what happened there. And even today, we have this conversation and I feel like World War II was in 1945 and by 1965 everybody
moved forward. Everybody lived another life.
And I think for us, for former Yugoslavia, we are still kind of stuck in that period. And I would love to see my country men and everybody from
that region to really move forward and try to compete with the world in other ways rather than looking back and trying to bring out the past, which
I'm kind of always for looking for it.
AMANPOUR: Ivan Ljubicic, thank you very much indeed.
LJUBICIC: Thank you.
AMANPOUR: And the war was very personal and formative for me as well since I covered the entire Bosnian conflict. And this weekend, I'll be in
Srebrenica to commemorate the massacre there.
Next, imagine a world with Europe at war.
AMANPOUR (voice-over): The sound of weapons fire rattled around the cabin.
Bosnian peace protest appears to be going nowhere.
Shelling yesterday killed at least eight people, according to Bosnian government.
I remember in the spring of 1995 that the general commander of the -- for the U.N. forces there, he said that that year -- in fact, that season, the
Bosnian Serbs would seek to take all the so-called U.N. safe havens. I'm not sure how many people took him seriously.
But there was an assault on Gorazde. There was an assault on Zepa and there was this terrible assault on Srebrenica. To this day, the numbers
are staggering: 8,000 or so Muslim men and boys slaughtered just because they were Muslim.
I remember the terrifying images of General Ratko Mladic, walking around the civilians in Srebrenica and telling them not to be afraid. The men
were all taken off and the women and children were put to one side. I remember he was trying to give them sweets. And I remember him -- several
cried -- he said, "Don't be afraid."
And it was about the most chilling video that I've seen ever in my life actually, because within hours, these men were slaughtered, the men and the
In August of that same year, another huge mortar attack on a market in Sarajevo and that was the trigger.
AMANPOUR: And NATO bombed for a couple of weeks and the Serbs cried "uncle." This group of, now we know, paper tiger really, that had held the
world at bay for so long, one or two bombs on its positions and they rolled over.
AMANPOUR (voice-over): Let's not forget that this was a slaughter of civilians, not a traditional army against army. It was a completely
unlevel playing field, right down to the fact that they were perched on the mountains surrounding Sarajevo and the civilians were in all these valley
towns and cities, who were being sniped, who were being shelled at bread lines and water lines, crossing the road, children even, women, old men.
It brought out the best in those who resisted and those who survived, who would not surrender again, these very same men, women and children, who
were being so terribly assaulted in the '90s, on global 24-hour satellite television.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Live, from the Carter Presidential Center in Atlanta, CNN presents a global forum.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, our next question is from Sarajevo, from CNN correspondent Christiane Amanpour.
AMANPOUR: Mr. President, it's a privilege to address you from Sarajevo.
Do you not think that the constant flip-flops of your administration on the issue Bosnia sets a very dangerous precedent and would leave people such as
Kim il-Sung or other strong people to take you less seriously than you would like to be taken?
BILL CLINTON, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No. But speeches like that may make them take me less seriously than I'd like to be taken. There have
been no constant flip-flops, madam. I ran for president, saying that I would.
AMANPOUR (voice-over): This was viewed as a challenge to President Clinton. I hadn't thought of it or planned it or presumed that I was going
to do that.
He had been speaking about Bosnia. This was 1994, one year before Srebrenica and two years into this savage war already. And the United
States basically its arms were tied. It wasn't doing anything.
You know, after "never again," this was very, very difficult for us to stomach as we watched it. And we lived it, day in and day out, week,
month, year in and year out. And it was my opportunity to ask him a question. It turned into a confrontation. It was awkward for me, probably
awkward for the president. But in the end, in hindsight, I think I did the right thing. I asked the only question I could from my vantage point. And
it was a very serious and dramatic question about why the world wasn't doing anything to stop a genocide.
I wish we could do the same thing in Syria. And I wish that the world would get as serious about ISIS, about defeating ISIS, as they did get as
serious about defeating the genocidal Serbian strategy back in 1995.